Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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ObsessoMom
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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby ObsessoMom » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:06 pm UTC

The Avengers and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. parted timelines at least two seasons ago. Earth can only handle so many incidents of mass destruction, let alone threats of extinction-level events, without the people who notice one also noticing others. News coverage is a thing.

Personally, I prefer the notion of one, consistent timeline, which forms a closed loop every time there is time travel. E.g., an item from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) that also appears in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) :

Spoiler:
Spock : [in response to Kirk pawning his antique spectacles from The Wrath of Khan, after the team has traveled back to 1986 and needs money] Excuse me, Admiral. But weren't those a birthday gift from Dr. McCoy?

Kirk : And they will be again, that's the beauty of it.


I love that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, even the Marvel writers have now thrown up their hands and given up on the notion of trying to keep the various canons straight anymore. The level of complication is no longer sustainable, cohesion-wise. So opportunities for me to feel clever and in-the-know will be few and far between now, because I can't remember whether what I remember even happened in this timeline. Ugh.

[Edited to add "IV" to "The Voyage Home"]
Last edited by ObsessoMom on Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:27 pm UTC

ObsessoMom wrote:Unfortunately, even the Marvel writers have now thrown up their hands and given up on the notion of trying to keep the various canons straight anymore. The level of complication is no longer sustainable, cohesion-wise. So opportunities for me to feel clever and in-the-know will be few and far between now, because I can't remember whether what I remember even happened in this timeline. Ugh.


The underlying problem is that movie and TV production schedules run very differently, so it would have required both sides to commit to working together for the two to work together well. Considering the movie side of things can't even co-ordinate well enough to work Carol Danvers into Endgame properly, expecting them to co-ordinate with the TV side of things is obviously going to be way too much...

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Zohar » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:52 pm UTC

I would say the underlying problem is they bit off more than they can chew to create a satisfying and coherent story, but I get where you're coming from.
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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Ranbot » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:53 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Soooo I'm kinda wondering how the current season of Agents of SHIELD can be reconciled with the events of Infinity War and Endgame... it would be too awkward to explain for TV viewers.... But that seems... kinda weak?

It's a cop-out, but that's basically how I would take it. The Agents of SHIELD series has always had only the barest minimum of connection to the Hollywood MCU.
Spoiler:
The heroes, villians, technology, stories, timelines, etc. are all different. The only marginal connection to the MCU is a Nick Fury cameo and Coulson's story. But, Nick Fury doesn't seem to care much about what Coulson & Co. are doing. When potentially Earth-destroying events are happening one would think Fury wouldn't rely on the B-team, or at least send them a ringer superhero as insurance, right? ...Whatever. And Coulson's story... He was basically a redshirt for MCU until his Agents of SHIELD storyline was created out of thin air. If Endgame time-traveling is inspiring alternate timelines, then the same could easily apply to Agents of SHIELD, but there's no hint at where the split(s) are would be so it's pure speculation.
But, I'm not complaining, if it's a good story* I don't care. Inspired by MCU, absolutely, but I can't with a straight face say it's the same world.

* - which IMHO the last couple seasons haven't delivered for me. I kind of watched out obligation and it's one of the few TV shows that my wife and I have both been interested in watching together. We haven't started watching the most recent season yet though... I might bail, but
Spoiler:
I'm also curious how Coulson and May's exit impacts the story

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:34 pm UTC

There have continued to be connections between the show and the movies the whole time.

The Dark World aftermath cleanup was as boring at that movie itself, sure. But Lady Sif from the Thor movies showed up in a few other episodes too.

There was of course the huge and awesome tie-in with The Winter Soldier and the end of season 1.

The alien whose blood resurrected Coulson before the start of the show was a Kree, and the Inhumans were also created by the Kree, tying in to Guardians of the Galaxy which introduced the Kree into the MCU.

There was some big secret project that was causing drama between the different surviving factions of SHIELD in the lead-up to Age of Ultron, which turned out to be the helicarrier that saved the day at the end of that movie. SHIELD's hunt for the remnants of Hydra also tied in to the discovery of Loki's scepter that kicked that movie off.

I don't think there was any connection to Ant-Man anywhere.

The Sokovia Accords introduced in Civil War impacted the superpowered Inhumans etc on SHIELD's team.

It was a less direct, more thematic connection, but at the same time Doctor Strange was introducing magic into the big-screen MCU, Agents of SHIELD also had a magic-related plot (lead into by the Ghost RIder subplot), and the visual effects used for the casting of magic in the show are obviously the same effects used for the casting of magic in Doctor Strange.

I don't think there was any connection to Spider-Man or Black Panther either.

The Kree feature prominently in season 5 of SHIELD too, tying in further with the cosmic part of the MCU, Guardians and now Captain Marvel with their Kree-heavy settings.

And of course, in the big finale of that season explicitly refers to the attack by the Children of Thanos on New York that was at the start of Infinity War.

So they've been making it pretty clear all along that this is meant to be the same universe, and the show's creators claim that it is meant to still be in the same universe, just "pre-snap", and that they have some way of reconciling how that's possible that they're not spelling out in the show just yet.

I'm wondering if it will somehow be connected to how the current events of the show seem to involve more than one faction of people that seem to be hunting down people who are somehow or another not supposed to exist in this timeline. They haven't really clarified exactly what's going on there yet, but it makes me wonder.

ETA: Meanwhile, nothing happening on SHIELD has been big enough that it should have warranted the attention of the Avengers. For seasons 2 and 3 they were mostly dealing with Inhumans, the remnants of Hydra, and and the legal status of SHIELD in the post-Winter Soldier and then post-Civil War world, nothing really world-ending. Season 4 was a bunch of smaller plots mostly only affecting the SHIELD crew themselves: Ghost Rider, LMDs, and the Framework. Season 5 was a literally world-shattering plot, but most of it took place in the future, and by the time it was back in the present and things were getting big enough that it might warrant calling in the Avengers... they were simultaneously busy fighting Thanos, a much bigger threat.
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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Ranbot » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:04 pm UTC

OK... more tie-ins than I remembered. I kinda binged Agents separately from watching the movies. I remember them referencing some movie events, but I didn't make all the simultaneous timeline connections with Hollywood's MCU.

I haven't started the new season yet, but when I do I'll look for the pre- and post-snap clues. The series spent quite some time in future out of the normal timeline and they have some catching up to do. While the MCU Avengers story takes a break over the next couple years it would make sense to give the Agents one or two seasons to catch up, I think. That would give them some opportunities for interesting tie-overs Infitity War and Endgame events.

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby ObsessoMom » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:11 pm UTC

I think the timeline of S.H.I.E.L.D. for at least the past two seasons...

(spoilered for the end of the Infinity War: Endgame film)

Spoiler:
...must be from the timeline from which Thanos and his daughters removed themselves by time-jumping before the Infinity Stones were assembled, so that they could show up at the end of the movie.

That would explain why no one on Earth seems to have turned to dust, ever, in the S.H.I.E.L.D. stories. And also why the Kree or the Confederacy or whatever never seem to have shown up in the Infinity War stories. I guess the Kree noticed Thanos' crap going down and gave the planet a wide berth.

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:41 am UTC

That doesn't work out, because the Confederacy's whole scheme was instigated by them noticing what Thanos was up to, and the end of Agents of SHIELD season 5 mentioned that the events from the start of Infinity War are happening concurrent with it, whereas those events wouldn't have happened in the timeline you mention.
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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:14 pm UTC

Ranbot wrote:We haven't started watching the most recent season yet though... I might bail, but
Spoiler:
I'm also curious how Coulson and May's exit impacts the story


Spoilers for the start of the latest season (like the first 5-10 minutes or so):

Spoiler:
Coulson died, then May came back to rejoin the team. It's now about a year later, but with no sign of the end of Infinity War having happened.

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby ObsessoMom » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:45 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:That doesn't work out, because the Confederacy's whole scheme was instigated by them noticing what Thanos was up to, and the end of Agents of SHIELD season 5 mentioned that the events from the start of Infinity War are happening concurrent with it, whereas those events wouldn't have happened in the timeline you mention.


Okay, so Plan B--I'll just remain baffled, then.

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby ObsessoMom » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:18 pm UTC

The current season is a little creepy for my taste, but I thoroughly enjoyed one of the storylines in this week's episode.

S6 E6 (Inescapable): Two characters get put into a shared mind-prison. If that doesn't sound familiar, this spoiler is for you.
Spoiler:
I laughed myself silly at Fitz's and Simmons's dark sides getting it on. I'd been kinda rooting for them to destroy each other, but this will do.

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:41 pm UTC

I also really enjoyed that part.
Spoiler:
"I didn't know you liked that." -- "I didn't know you would do that."


I'm curious what you find creepy about this season? Creepy like socially creepy inappropriate, or creepy like too dark and scary?
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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby ObsessoMom » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:50 pm UTC

Anything involving

Spoiler:
parasitic vermin invading people


ain't my cuppa tea.

Speaking of which, I didn't understand why

Spoiler:
YoYo, of all people, couldn't have just grabbed that bat-like thing while it was still flapping around, and put it in a container or something. And absolutely she should have been able to pull it out of her new love interest's mouth before it went down his throat. That took an eternity.


I liked the bit you quoted, too, though it was slightly implausible that something kinky enough to have elicited that comment would have been going on out of camera range when we had just seen that both parties were wearing several layers of buttoned-up clothing. But I concede that my kink imagination may be too limited. And I guess certain areas were still accessible. Anyway....

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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:34 am UTC

Ah yeah, that is a creepy element to it. And I had that very same thought about YoYo myself; it seemed like the writers just really forgot her powers for most of that episode and had her standing around like a mundane when she could be doing something useful.

I also struggled to think of what exactly could have been happening (especially that quickly) to warrant that kinky comment, but I shrugged it off as an acceptable break from reality for the sake of a good joke.
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Re: Aglets of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:36 pm UTC

And YoYo's not only fast, she's got metal hands, so I don't know why she would have been hesitant to touch something nasty. Anyway....

Pfhorrest wrote:I also struggled to think of what exactly could have been happening (especially that quickly) to warrant that kinky comment, but I shrugged it off as an acceptable break from reality for the sake of a good joke.


Yes, hilarity wins.


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