Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates
- Eebster the Great
- Posts: 3209
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
They had "luxury" as /kʃ/ and "luxurious" as /gʒ/, which seems reasonable. I would say /ˈlʌɡʒəɹi/, but Wikipedia also lists /ˈlʌkʃəɹi/, and in my experience that's pretty common. But yeah, "crucifixion" would probably be a less ambiguous example.
And "tableaux" is pronounced exactly the same as "tableau." It's just the plural form, and the final x is silent. Compare "château/châteaux".
And "tableaux" is pronounced exactly the same as "tableau." It's just the plural form, and the final x is silent. Compare "château/châteaux".
- ThirdParty
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:53 pm UTC
- Location: USA
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
ThirdParty wrote:I'm not sure I even know what a "xylem" is. I wonder why they didn't pick a less obscure word for their list, such as "xylophone" or "tableaux".
pogrmman wrote:Xylem and xylophone have the same x sound, but not tableaux (the x is silent, because French).
Liri wrote:I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that the 'x' in 'tableaux' is silent. Not... "tabloze".
Eebster the Great wrote:And "tableaux" is pronounced exactly the same as "tableau." It's just the plural form, and the final x is silent.
Huh. I've always pronounced "tableaux" with a /z/ on the end...
Okay, I just looked up "tableaux" in a couple of dictionaries, and neither Merriam-Webster nor the American Heritage Dictionary even offer silent "x" as an option; they both say it's pronounced with a /z/. Collins says it's /z/ in American English but can be /z/ or silent in British English.
Funny: usually when a letter in a French-derived word is silent on one side of the pond but not the other (e.g. the "t" in "buffet"), I feel like it's the Americans who don't pronounce it and the Brits who do; I'm surprised to find one that apparently runs the other direction.
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
ThirdParty wrote:ThirdParty wrote:I'm not sure I even know what a "xylem" is. I wonder why they didn't pick a less obscure word for their list, such as "xylophone" or "tableaux".pogrmman wrote:Xylem and xylophone have the same x sound, but not tableaux (the x is silent, because French).Liri wrote:I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that the 'x' in 'tableaux' is silent. Not... "tabloze".Eebster the Great wrote:And "tableaux" is pronounced exactly the same as "tableau." It's just the plural form, and the final x is silent.
Huh. I've always pronounced "tableaux" with a /z/ on the end...
Okay, I just looked up "tableaux" in a couple of dictionaries, and neither Merriam-Webster nor the American Heritage Dictionary even offer silent "x" as an option; they both say it's pronounced with a /z/. Collins says it's /z/ in American English but can be /z/ or silent in British English.
Funny: usually when a letter in a French-derived word is silent on one side of the pond but not the other (e.g. the "t" in "buffet"), I feel like it's the Americans who don't pronounce it and the Brits who do; I'm surprised to find one that apparently runs the other direction.
That's weird -- I'm an American and have never pronounced it with anything. It's always been silent for me (and for most people I know).
- Liri
- Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
- Posts: 1113
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
- Contact:
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
I'm also American, and I believe Eebster is as well (could be wrong on that one). I, too, have never heard anyone pronounce it as a /z/, not even as a joke.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.
- ThirdParty
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:53 pm UTC
- Location: USA
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Huh. How about other "-eau" words? Like, do y'all pronounce the /z/ at the end of the plurals of "bureau" and "plateau"?
(I do, but I also spell them with an "s", which I why I didn't use them as my example. Meanwhile, I could see leaving the "x" silent in "chateaux"; since one doesn't really encounter the word "chateau" outside of French place names, it makes sense to use the French pronunciation rather than the proper English one. I figured "tableau" was a good compromise: on the one hand, its plural is pretty uncontroversially spelled with an "x" rather than an "s"; on the other hand, insofar as the game of Klondike is at least as deeply embedded in American culture as Monopoly is, "tableau" is a word one encounters routinely in non-French contexts.)
(I do, but I also spell them with an "s", which I why I didn't use them as my example. Meanwhile, I could see leaving the "x" silent in "chateaux"; since one doesn't really encounter the word "chateau" outside of French place names, it makes sense to use the French pronunciation rather than the proper English one. I figured "tableau" was a good compromise: on the one hand, its plural is pretty uncontroversially spelled with an "x" rather than an "s"; on the other hand, insofar as the game of Klondike is at least as deeply embedded in American culture as Monopoly is, "tableau" is a word one encounters routinely in non-French contexts.)
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
ThirdParty wrote:Funny: usually when a letter in a French-derived word is silent on one side of the pond but not the other (e.g. the "t" in "buffet"), I feel like it's the Americans who don't pronounce it and the Brits who do; I'm surprised to find one that apparently runs the other direction.
"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
Huh. How about other "-eau" words? Like, do y'all pronounce the /z/ at the end of the plurals of "bureau" and "plateau"?
I would pronounce those as standard English plurals, which is /z/, and spelled with an -s. I would not pronounce the x in anything ending in -eaux. And honestly I can't say if I've ever had to use tableau in the plural.
- Eebster the Great
- Posts: 3209
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
To be clear, if we tacked a standard English plural onto "tableau," while it would be spelled "tableaus," it would be pronounced the same as the listings form "tableaux" above. I would guess that's where it came from. It's not exactly a word that pops up very often. However, I can say that in the context I have said the word "châteaux," the x has been silent.
And yes, I am American. I have found some serious problems in the Collins dictionary's listings before. Check out their entry for "dice."
And yes, I am American. I have found some serious problems in the Collins dictionary's listings before. Check out their entry for "dice."
- ThirdParty
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:53 pm UTC
- Location: USA
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
What do you call the stacks of not-yet-played cards in solitaire games such as Klondike or FreeCell?Derek wrote:honestly I can't say if I've ever had to use tableau in the plural.
What's wrong with it, exactly? Only two things really jumped out at me:Eebster the Great wrote:I have found some serious problems in the Collins dictionary's listings before. Check out their entry for "dice."
1. It says "dice" can be singular, whereas I'm inclined to say that the only correct singular form is "die". But this is just a descriptivism/prescriptivism issue.
2. It says "dice" can be used as a noun to refer to cubes of food; I don't think I've ever heard it used that way. I would say "dice the tomato and then put the diced tomato into the pot" rather than "cut the tomato into dice and then put the tomato dice into the pot". But I don't think I would consider the latter wrong--just weird.
In any case, OED, CALD, and M-W agree with it on both points. AHD agrees with me that "die" is the one true singular form, but possibly just because it's not updated as frequently. M-W and AHD both raise the possibility that the cubes of food can also be called "dices", which strikes me as even more bizarre than calling them "dice".
- flicky1991
- Like in Cinderella?
- Posts: 770
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
- Location: London
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Not for me...Derek wrote:"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
any pronouns
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
ThirdParty wrote:What do you call the stacks of not-yet-played cards in solitaire games such as Klondike or FreeCell?
Isn't the entire set of stacks one tableau? I mean it's related to "table", which suggests that the entire area should be the single tableau. And I'm not usually playing multiple solitaire games, so I have little occasion to use the plural.
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Generally speaking, if I see a word ending in x, I tend to assume that it comes from French and that I probably shouldn’t pronounce the x.
Plateau and bureau are pluralized in the standard way, and pronounced just like any other word ending in an s.
Plateau and bureau are pluralized in the standard way, and pronounced just like any other word ending in an s.
- Liri
- Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
- Posts: 1113
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
- Contact:
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
flicky1991 wrote:Not for me...Derek wrote:"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
The verb "buffet" I certainly pronounce the 't'. For the self-serve meal I do not.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.
- flicky1991
- Like in Cinderella?
- Posts: 770
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
- Location: London
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
OK, true. But I would have thought the verb had a "t" sound regardless of what kind of English you're speaking.Liri wrote:flicky1991 wrote:Not for me...Derek wrote:"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
The verb "buffet" I certainly pronounce the 't'. For the self-serve meal I do not.
any pronouns
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
- Liri
- Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
- Posts: 1113
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
- Contact:
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
flicky1991 wrote:OK, true. But I would have thought the verb had a "t" sound regardless of what kind of English you're speaking.Liri wrote:flicky1991 wrote:Not for me...Derek wrote:"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
The verb "buffet" I certainly pronounce the 't'. For the self-serve meal I do not.
I figured everyone was on the same page about it, but I wanted to make sure.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.
- ThirdParty
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:53 pm UTC
- Location: USA
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Oops. I guess that isn't a good example. How about "fillet" and "valet"?flicky1991 wrote:Not for me...Derek wrote:ThirdParty wrote:Funny: usually when a letter in a French-derived word is silent on one side of the pond but not the other (e.g. the "t" in "buffet"), I feel like it's the Americans who don't pronounce it and the Brits who do; I'm surprised to find one that apparently runs the other direction.
"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
- flicky1991
- Like in Cinderella?
- Posts: 770
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
- Location: London
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
I pronounce the "t" in "fillet", but not "valet".ThirdParty wrote:Oops. I guess that isn't a good example. How about "fillet" and "valet"?
any pronouns
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
- freezeblade
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
- Location: Oakland
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
flicky1991 wrote:I pronounce the "t" in "fillet", but not "valet".ThirdParty wrote:Oops. I guess that isn't a good example. How about "fillet" and "valet"?
So they don't rhyme in your accent? How interesting.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."
- Xenomortis
- Not actually a special flower.
- Posts: 1437
- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
No, fillet rhymes with billet or skillet.
I had no idea that it was pronounced differently in American accent.
I had no idea that it was pronounced differently in American accent.

- Eebster the Great
- Posts: 3209
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
ThirdParty wrote:What's wrong with it, exactly? Only two things really jumped out at me:Eebster the Great wrote:I have found some serious problems in the Collins dictionary's listings before. Check out their entry for "dice."
1. It says "dice" can be singular . . .
It doesn't just say it "can" be singular, it claims that in modern English, it is THE singular, and the form "die" was only used in "old-fashioned English." Maybe that's true in England, but it's certainly not true in the U.S.
Xenomortis wrote:No, fillet rhymes with billet or skillet.
I had no idea that it was pronounced differently in American accent.
In America, "fillet" is frequently confused with the French "filet," as in "filet mignon," so it is usually pronounced that way when referring to cuts of meat or fish. Check out the chain restaurant "Chick Fil-A," which serves chicken fillets.
"Valet" is usually pronounced the same way in America and Great Britain, though the word was originally pronounced with a hard t and sometimes still is. But that pronunciation was already seen as dated even a century ago, as in Jeeves and Wooster.
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
ThirdParty wrote:↶Oops. I guess that isn't a good example. How about "fillet" and "valet"?flicky1991 wrote:Not for me...Derek wrote:ThirdParty wrote:Funny: usually when a letter in a French-derived word is silent on one side of the pond but not the other (e.g. the "t" in "buffet"), I feel like it's the Americans who don't pronounce it and the Brits who do; I'm surprised to find one that apparently runs the other direction.
"Buffet" is pronounced with a t in Britain?
Fillet always has a t for me, valet depends on context (the t is pronounced when talking about the servant e.g. Jeeves' job title, but in all other senses I drop the t)
my pronouns are they
Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Is the children's rhyme and clapping game "Patty Cake" (or perhaps "Paddy Cake") or "Pat-a-Cake"? I'd never heard of the latter until today, it seems like it may be somewhat more common in the UK based on Google n-grams.
- flicky1991
- Like in Cinderella?
- Posts: 770
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
- Location: London
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Definitely "pat-a-cake" in UK. I associate "patty-cake" with US.
any pronouns
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
----
Forum Games Discord
(tell me if link doesn't work)
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
Today I met a woman who pronounced the word "color" the same way I'd pronounce "collar". I can't recall ever hearing it pronounced that way by anyone else.
- Eebster the Great
- Posts: 3209
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
flicky1991 wrote:Definitely "pat-a-cake" in UK. I associate "patty-cake" with US.
Wikipedia gives "pat a cake" from 1698 and "patty cake" from 1765. As an American, I'm also familiar with the latter.
Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)
New User wrote:Today I met a woman who pronounced the word "color" the same way I'd pronounce "collar". I can't recall ever hearing it pronounced that way by anyone else.
I would definitely pronounce those words by themselves differently, but they sound similar enough to me that for the longest time I wasn't sure if it was "colored greens" or "collared greens" (and being still unsure just now, I looked it up again and found that it's not even "collared", it "collard").
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)
Return to “Language/Linguistics”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests