Cobalts & Rubies [The End: Faltering trust]

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:04 pm UTC

Does the ruby tell whether someone is town/mafia, or also whether someone is the chosen one, or a 1-shot vig?

The mod said somewhere that town has the equivalent of a 1-shot vig, but I had to look back for it too

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maident
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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby maident » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:15 am UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:Does the ruby tell whether someone is town/mafia, or also whether someone is the chosen one, or a 1-shot vig?

Yes to all three.

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Minestrone
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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Minestrone » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:30 pm UTC

Well that changes things a bit. Actually, taking into consideration the fact that the chosen one has to survive the night, our best strategy might be to spread out the gems, find the scum, vig one and then roleblock the other. It'll be important not to let the cobalt fall into scum hands though because they could both lead us astray and gain information about the identity of the vig and the chosen one themselves. If the ruby get's into scum hands they might roleblock the cop but they'd reveal themselves as scum in the process. Hopefully after tonight we'll have enough information for the vig to pretty reliably shoot scum, which will buy us time to find the other one, at which point we can just pass the gems around and use the roleblock each night to keep the last scum locked down.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby New User » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:11 pm UTC

Agreed. I had thought that the cop power would only tell us if someone is mafia or town. I now think that we might as well split the gems.

Vote Cobalt: Minestrone

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby maident » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:58 pm UTC

Official votals
Ruby
New User (2): New User, Ahippo
Minestrone (1): Minestrone
Lawrencelot (1): Lawrencelot

Cobalt
Minestrone (2): Minestrone, New User
New User (1): Ahippo
Lawrencelot (1): Lawrencelot

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Lawrencelot » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:32 pm UTC

Vote Ruby: New User

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby ahippo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:51 pm UTC

Well I guess I can see why we're doing this. Personally I think our chances are better by giving both to the same person, but since the consensus seems to be going this way, I'll do my part.

Unvote Cobalt
Vote Cobalt: Minestrone


I'm just worried about the ruby falling into scum hands. One well delivered lie could easily end the game in scum's favor. If we give both to one person I think we're agreed that the recipient should use the cobalt. Obviously if scum get both, they'll just use the ruby, but at least they can't claim any sort of investigation on the next day. I guess what I'm saying here, is let's be cautious about ruby claims.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby New User » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:02 pm UTC

If we assume that the only two factions are scum (mafia) and town:

Then if one scum player gets both gems, they need not use the Ruby Cop power. It would be useless to them, since they presumably already know who is scum, and therefor they know who is town as well.

So I conclude that the scum player would use the Cobalt Roleblock instead of the ruby, in order to try to block the vigilante kill.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby ahippo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:34 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure you're right about there being just town and scum. But the ruby reveals vig and chosen one too. With that information scum would have a much easier time keeping the gems out of that person's hands. Personally, if I were scum, and I got both gems, I'd use the ruby.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby New User » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:27 pm UTC

Oh maybe so. Again I was just going by the old standard cop "town" or "not town" definition. I suppose you're right that the scum team might want to be looking for the chosen one.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Minestrone » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:46 pm UTC

We don't really want either gem falling into scum hands, but especially not the ruby (I've been working on the assumption that the cobalt gave the cop and the ruby gave the roleblock because alliteration, but I read more closely and will now use the right terms). So I'll
Unvote: ruby
since people seem willing to give me the cobalt, but I want to take more time and discussion on the ruby assignment. It's really important that we get solid ruby results tonight because it's the only way the vig will have a good chance of shooting scum. Actually that's not quite true, it's possible that the cobalt will out a scum if it blocks the kill but that's half as likely because only one of the two scum will be carrying out the kill.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Asmodieus » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:51 pm UTC

@ahippo

I'm curious to why you think that giving both gems to 1 person is the best option
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby maident » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:03 pm UTC

Official votals
Ruby
New User (3): New User, Ahippo, Lawrencelot

Cobalt
Minestrone (3): Minestrone, New User, Ahippo
Lawrencelot (1): Lawrencelot

Not voting: Asmodieus, ajh

Deadline in 49 hours

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby ahippo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:08 pm UTC

We just don't have many shots to get this right. It's unlikely we'd get lucky D1 and find the right person, but there's a chance. The more time I've had to think on it, I understand why, D1 we'd split the gems. On D2, though, we are going to need to give both to one person, I think. Unless we get lucky with the cobalt. Then it's like D1 all over again but with more information, in which case, it would be easier to decide whom to give the gems to. If at any point, one unblocked scum kill could end them game in their favor, splitting the gems seems like a bad idea to me.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Minestrone » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:27 pm UTC

The problem with giving gems to both people is the "must survive the night" clause. If we gave the gems to one person scum would just kill them unless they also roleblocked the right person, so we'd have to be double lucky. If we can use the gems to find both scum, on the other hand, we can kill one and lock down the other, which gives us time to try giving both gems to everyone.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby New User » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:16 am UTC

Not much seems to be going on here. Let me restate my position:

I originally thought that giving both gems to one player was the best plan. Then I realized that if the gem holder only gets to use one of the two powers, and the chosen one must also survive the night to win, then it would require some extreme guesswork and luck to meet the win condition that way. We'd have to get both gems into the hands of town (we don't even know who is town), that town player would need to be the chosen one (no way of knowing that), and the chosen one would have to target mafia killer with the roleblock as well (don't even know who is mafia) or else the vigilante would have to target the mafia killer (and I still think it would be best if the vigilante waits until N2 to use the kill).

Now that I have also learned that the cop power reveals all information about a player (not just "town" or "not town"), I think it's best that we split the gems.

I obviously think I should have one gem, and I voted Minestrone for the second gem because her statements seem town enough to me. At this point I'm looking at ahippo and ajh as scummiest, I suppose. We really haven't heard much from ajh at all.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby maident » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:59 am UTC

It is now Night 1
Please get all actions in ASAP
Deadline at March 19th, 12PM PST

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby maident » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:58 pm UTC

Night is over.

The discussion wasn't anything unusual, all things considered. It started as a simple problem to be solved, just give both gems to one person, and that one person was you. Then, as that clearly wasn't going to work, arguments sprung forth, questions were demanded, and at last both gems were split. The red one was later found on a corpse.

New User has been found, killed.

Shakily retrieving the bloodied gem, the little gemologist waited for all the diggers to retrieve their tools, unsure of whether her trolley would ever feel the cold fresh air again. Lamps, running low on light, sputtered to life as she considered everything that the implications could imply. The blue cobalt would for now remain with its previous owner, unless the vote decided otherwise. Maybe it would be put to better use, now that it the stakes were clear. She could only hope that the votes this time around would be less confused.

Day 2 is scheduled to end Tuesday 23, 3 PM PST

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:18 am UTC

So New User's cop result is lost, but I'm not sure how we can prevent this in the future. Minestrone, please claim your roleblock target asap.

If Minestrone says he targeted someone, that player can be:
1) Town
2) Scum who did not kill New User
3) Scum who did kill New User, but Minestrone is lying. Then Minestrone is scum. In the above two cases Minestrone could be scum as well.

I have no reason to think Minestrone is scum, but I think I would prefer that Minestrone does not get the Ruby or the Cobalt now, just to spread our chances. Although we don't have that many options.

Alive:
Lawrencelot
Asmodieus
ajh
Minestrone
ahippo

With two scum, I think we lose if we don't give both gems to the chosen one now? And they have to survive the night?

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby maident » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:54 pm UTC

Something important was brought to my attention... sorry for not mentioning sooner.

The gemologist finally snapped out of her sulking, at least momentarily, clarity flooding her eyes. "There's not enough of us left...!"

It is potential LYLO

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Minestrone » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:37 am UTC

I roleblocked Lawrencealot last night, because I didn't like their lack of activity or their vote for New User, who I was worried would have scummates voting for them if they were scum, which is moot since we know they weren't scum now. The fact that the kill went through means at least that if they were scum they weren't the ones to carry out the kill. We don't need to get the gems to the chosen one and have them survive tonight, we just need for the vig to correctly kill scum. So tonight I agree we should give the cobalt to someone else, though if you still think I'm town I'd love to be entrusted with the ruby.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby ahippo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:31 am UTC

I do mostly trust your result. And as I said yesterday, I think we're going to need to give both gems to one person tonight. Unless there are any objections, I think our best bet is gonna be Lawrencelot, since he's the closest we have to confirmed town. It might also be a good idea for the vig to target someone tonight. It essentially doubles our chances of surviving the night.

Assuming we're trusting Minestrone's claim, that would make the most logical targets for the roleblock and vig kill ajh, Asmodieus, and myself. (lol 'A' name party). And if one of us three is the vig, that would make things easier too. There's the possibility of the block landing on the vig, but else-wise, I think that's the best plan I can come up with, for now. So

Vote Ruby: Lawrencelot
Vote Cobalt: Lawrencelot

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Minestrone » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:33 pm UTC

I don't see the point in giving both gems to one person before the mafia is neutralized because they'll just be the number one target for the kill anyway. Spreading out the gems guarantees that at least one of the powers goes through so that once the vig hits scum tonight (which is really our only hope), we have more to work with tomorrow for finding the other scum and continuously roleblocking them.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Asmodieus » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:56 pm UTC

I agree with Minestrone in keeping the gems split.

Although it might be LYLO, the mafia will certainly kill the person holding both gems and without any information on who's mafia means that the kill will go through.
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby ajh » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:22 pm UTC

The cop is likely to get killed, so it'd make sense to give the ruby to an only slightly towny player. The roleblock, of course, goes to the towniest (which is Lawrencelot).
Minestrone looks okay, I would give them the ruby (and the cobalt to me or Asmodieus), but I have to agree with Lawrencelot about spreading our chances, so:
vote ruby: ajh
vote cobalt: Asmodieus

ahippo seems scummy, mostly because they don't agree with splitting.
Lawrencelot wrote:If Minestrone says he targeted someone, that player can be:
1) Town
2) Scum who did not kill New User
3) Scum who did kill New User, but Minestrone is lying. Then Minestrone is scum. In the above two cases Minestrone could be scum as well.
Would Minestrone be scum just because they were lying? Couldn't they also have killed NU?

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby maident » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:53 pm UTC

Official votals
Ruby
Lawrencelot (1): Ahippo
Ajh (1): Ajh

Cobalt
Lawrencelot (1): Ahippo
Asmodieus (1): Ajh

Not voting: Minestrone, Lawrencelot, Asmodieus.

Deadline in two days almost exactly; if enough people want an extension I can grant one.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby ahippo » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:23 am UTC

Man, I really hate doing this. I had a post already written about why I still think it's a good idea not to split the gems, but as I was thinking about it, I realized I was wrong. I still think we're gonna have to use the cobalt correctly tonight if we're gonna have any chance at this. Dunno what that secret mechanic is, but I don't want to have to rely on it. I was fixated on the idea of maximizing our chances of winning tonight, but I realized our chances of winning on future nights is a lot higher than tonight. And they get better if we split the gems. It all comes down to either the vig or the cobalt recipient being successful.

I can understand the reasoning behind giving the gems to new people, but I'm still most comfortable with one of them going to the towniest player so
Unvote Ruby
Vote Ruby: ajh

I'm leaving the cobalt vote where it is.

I would highly encourage the vig to kill tonight. We need to get at least one scum.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Asmodieus » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:05 pm UTC

Vig killing tonight has a high risk of killing a town player which would make things a lot harder for us. We shouldn't do anything risky without more information.
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Minestrone » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:40 pm UTC

The vig literally has to kill tonight or we lose. If the vig does nothing then unless the cobalt holder gets lucky another town dies tonight anyway and we're down to 2 town and 2 scum, which leaves scum in control of the vote. If the vig accidentally hits town then it will go down to 1 town and 2 scum tomorrow, which isn't any better than 2 town and 2 scum when both situations are losses.

Vote Cobalt: Lawrencealot

because he's the most trustable person at the moment and I don't want Asmodieus getting a gem after what they said.

Vote Ruby: Minestrone

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby maident » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:54 pm UTC

Official votals
Ruby
Lawrencelot (2): Ahippo, Minestrone
Ajh (1): Ajh

Cobalt
Minestrone(1): Minestrone
Ajh (1): Ahippo
Asmodieus (1): Ajh

Not voting: Lawrencelot, Asmodieus.

Deadline in one day and one hour almost exactly; if enough people want an extension I can grant one.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:40 am UTC

I don't think that votecount is correct. Could you give us a 1 day extension because of this?

I'm not sure I agree with splitting the gems, but I understand the reasoning.

Vote Ruby: Minestrone
Vote Cobalt: Lawrencelot


Ahippo why are you voting for ajh?

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Asmodieus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:47 pm UTC

@Minestrone in a 2 - 2 the mafia doesn't necessarily control the vote, and with some scum hunting and maybe a good investigation, the vigilante has a better shot of killing off a mafia.

but a 2 - 1 is a deathwish and I'd rather not risk that.
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby maident » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:59 pm UTC

Sorry about the incorrect votals, I will grant a 48 hour extension.

Official votals
Ruby
Lawrencelot (1): Ahippo
Ajh (1): Ajh
Minestrone (2): Lawrencelot, Minestrone

Cobalt
Lawrencelot (2): Lawrencelot, Minestrone
Ajh (1): Ahippo
Asmodieus (1): Ajh

Not voting: Asmodieus.

Deadline in 77 hours

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D1: As above, so below]

Postby Minestrone » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:16 pm UTC

maident wrote:As requested, here are the win conditions:

Mafia: Control the vote. If the number of mafia-aligned is ever equal to or greater than the number of town-aligned, mafia wins.


2-2 is a loss by the rules of the game

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Asmodieus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:15 pm UTC

Ah, you're right. Vigilante definitely needs to choose someone to kill today then.
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby ajh » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:46 pm UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:Ahippo why are you voting for ajh?
I'd also like to know that.
Minestrone wrote:Vote Cobalt: Lawrencelot
because he's the most trustable person at the moment and I don't want Asmodieus getting a gem after what they said.
Vote Ruby: Minestrone
I agree.
unvote cobalt
Asmodieus, why aren't you voting?

Just wanted to emphasize we also lose if the cobalt holder blocks the vig. They have to successfully hit scum.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Asmodieus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:21 pm UTC

I can't really get a read on anyone and I don't want to just bandwagon on a vote.
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby ahippo » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:23 pm UTC

First of all I just wanna make sure my votes are counted correctly. My vote for cobalt should be Lawrencelot and ruby (right now) should be ajh.

Somebody said earlier that it would be good to give the ruby to someone who hasn't had a gem, to increase our chances of it landing with town. I don't think minestrone is scum, but I guess I play mafia as more of a numbers game. Keeping the power with the same players each night means, if he is scum, we have a much harder game ahead. Spreading the gems around means more often than not, town will get them. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but that's what makes the most sense to me. It looks like the ruby is going to minestrone with or without my support, though. And as for why ajh specifically, he already had a vote for himself, and I trust him more than Asmodieus. And voting for myself wouldn't likely get me anywhere.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby Asmodieus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:31 pm UTC

Minestrone wrote:
because he's the most trustable person at the moment and I don't want Asmodieus getting a gem after what they said.



Is it more likely that I didn't remember a part of the rules or that I knew what the rules were and that I was just hoping everyone else forgot?
Tillian wrote:Yeah, but the polar bears get more territorial during the summer, so we have to stay indoors.

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Re: Cobalts & Rubies [D2: The lights dim, the faces grim]

Postby maident » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:43 am UTC

Official votals
Ruby
Ajh (2): Ajh, Ahippo
Minestrone (2): Lawrencelot, Minestrone

Cobalt
Lawrencelot (3): Lawrencelot, Minestrone, Ahippo
Asmodieus (1): Ajh

Not voting: Asmodieus.

Deadline in 66 hours


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