Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

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Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

So, there's Candy Box, which many of you have probably played. Minimalist game, starts out with candies just piling up and only a couple of options, expands out from there. Yes, an actual game emerges, eventually. Never did beat it, not sure what happens after you kill The Devil.

I've also recently found A Firelit Room, which has more of a coherent point to it than Candy Box. While Candy Box seems, in many respects, to be %r@nd0m! for the sake of oddity (the Frog questions, for example) A Firelit Room has a somewhat survival element with bits of horror (small bits, but bits nonetheless) thrown in, along with apocalyptic survival and scavenging and so on. Did manage to beat this one... at least, I think I did. Hard to tell.

Anyway, this sort of game seems to be going, and it's something I can get behind. They've got more gameplay than the idle games where literally not interacting is the best course, but at the same time nothing bad really happens if you leave them running overnight.

There any other games in this sort of genre I'm missing? I am really digging A Firelit Room for it's story (minimal as it is) and setting, so.. more crap like that would be neat.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:So, there's Candy Box, which many of you have probably played. Minimalist game, starts out with candies just piling up and only a couple of options, expands out from there. Yes, an actual game emerges, eventually. Never did beat it, not sure what happens after you kill The Devil.

After Hell, you face Yourself, then someone whose name gets autoreplaced with Bruce Schneier, then three levels getting to and facing the developper [sic], which unlocks the post-game content - once you get 10^13 or so lollipops, you have access to everything and can buff yourself to ridiculous levels

Apparently there's a sequel due out in October.
Last edited by rmsgrey on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:24 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:52 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I've also recently found A Firelit Room,
This is unbelievably cool.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Derek » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:45 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:So, there's Candy Box, which many of you have probably played. Minimalist game, starts out with candies just piling up and only a couple of options, expands out from there. Yes, an actual game emerges, eventually. Never did beat it, not sure what happens after you kill The Devil.

After Hell, you face Yourself, then someone whose name gets autoreplaced with Bruce Schneier, then three levels getting to and facing the developper [sic], which unlocks the post-game content - once you get 10^13 or so lollipops, you have access to everything and can buff yourself to ridiculous levels

Apparently there's a sequel due out in October.

I got to the point where you fight yourself. The gimmick wasn't obvious after a few tries, and I didn't feel like experimenting with every possibility in the game, so I just closed the tab after not touching it for a few days.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:57 am UTC

Derek wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:So, there's Candy Box, which many of you have probably played. Minimalist game, starts out with candies just piling up and only a couple of options, expands out from there. Yes, an actual game emerges, eventually. Never did beat it, not sure what happens after you kill The Devil.

After Hell, you face Yourself, then someone whose name gets autoreplaced with Bruce Schneier, then three levels getting to and facing the developper [sic], which unlocks the post-game content - once you get 10^13 or so lollipops, you have access to everything and can buff yourself to ridiculous levels

Apparently there's a sequel due out in October.

I got to the point where you fight yourself. The gimmick wasn't obvious after a few tries, and I didn't feel like experimenting with every possibility in the game, so I just closed the tab after not touching it for a few days.

Talk to the sorceress again.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:07 pm UTC

Or get to sub 30 hit points and use a fire scroll, as the way that fight seems to work is that you do something THEN yourself does the same thing. It's not simultaneous - but close enough to simultaneous for weapon strikes and healing potions to essentially be simultaneous.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Adam H » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:49 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:A Firelit Room
I kind of hate you for introducing me to this time-waster. But I also kind of love you for it. Is the name of the game not "A Dark Room" rather than "A Firelit Room"?

I never really gave candy box a chance. I remember I planted a bunch of lollipops, got a wooden sword, and then spent the next few minutes throwing several hundred candies on the ground (to no effect, from what I could tell), then I quit.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:20 pm UTC

I got bored with Candy Box once crafting came into play. Crafting in games has never really interested me and I was getting the feeling that it was going to be required for some things later on, so I just quit. It was fun up until that point, though.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Adam H » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:51 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I've also recently found A Firelit Room, which has more of a coherent point to it than Candy Box. While Candy Box seems, in many respects, to be %r@nd0m! for the sake of oddity (the Frog questions, for example) A Firelit Room has a somewhat survival element with bits of horror (small bits, but bits nonetheless) thrown in, along with apocalyptic survival and scavenging and so on. Did manage to beat this one... at least, I think I did. Hard to tell.

The end of Firelit Room:
Spoiler:
I think I beat it - I had 8 health flying through space, then my little @ went to the center of the screen, and it all went white, and then I was back in a dark room from the very beginning.

The thing is, it looked like I hit a meteor right before the @ went to the middle of the screen and everything went white, so... a small part of me suspects that I might have died, and it made me start over...

Another small part of me suspects that the dark room that I'm in now is different somehow than the first one... but... surely not...
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

Playing through it different times - the map changes.

So.. yay?
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby pseudoidiot » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:54 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:I've also recently found A Firelit Room, which has more of a coherent point to it than Candy Box. While Candy Box seems, in many respects, to be %r@nd0m! for the sake of oddity (the Frog questions, for example) A Firelit Room has a somewhat survival element with bits of horror (small bits, but bits nonetheless) thrown in, along with apocalyptic survival and scavenging and so on. Did manage to beat this one... at least, I think I did. Hard to tell.

The end of Firelit Room:
Spoiler:
I think I beat it - I had 8 health flying through space, then my little @ went to the center of the screen, and it all went white, and then I was back in a dark room from the very beginning.

The thing is, it looked like I hit a meteor right before the @ went to the middle of the screen and everything went white, so... a small part of me suspects that I might have died, and it made me start over...

Another small part of me suspects that the dark room that I'm in now is different somehow than the first one... but... surely not...
Yeah, the game just starts over when you win.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:58 pm UTC

I've been playing Candy Box, and after forgetting to save and accidentally closing, I thought I was all clever not eating any candies. I thought the system where your health was randomised was really annoying until I worked it out :P

Edit: Beat firelit room while I was waiting for Candy Box to run through. These games are definitely something different.
Last edited by SirBryghtside on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:17 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby sparkyb » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:16 am UTC

Ahhh. I hate you now. When I heard about candy box from some people at work I told them explicitly "whatever you do, don't send me that link" because I knew I didn't want to get addicted to that. But then I accidentally saw the link on Facebook or something. I finally beat it so that I could stop working on it and now you've hooked me on a new one. :( But of course I kind of like it too.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Xanthir » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:11 am UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:
Adam H wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:I've also recently found A Firelit Room, which has more of a coherent point to it than Candy Box. While Candy Box seems, in many respects, to be %r@nd0m! for the sake of oddity (the Frog questions, for example) A Firelit Room has a somewhat survival element with bits of horror (small bits, but bits nonetheless) thrown in, along with apocalyptic survival and scavenging and so on. Did manage to beat this one... at least, I think I did. Hard to tell.

The end of Firelit Room:
Spoiler:
I think I beat it - I had 8 health flying through space, then my little @ went to the center of the screen, and it all went white, and then I was back in a dark room from the very beginning.

The thing is, it looked like I hit a meteor right before the @ went to the middle of the screen and everything went white, so... a small part of me suspects that I might have died, and it made me start over...

Another small part of me suspects that the dark room that I'm in now is different somehow than the first one... but... surely not...
Yeah, the game just starts over when you win.

I like the justification that
Spoiler:
you crash-land on another planet, but they're *all* ruined, just like your starting planet, by the war with the wanderers. There's nothing left of your once-interstellar civilization, anywhere.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby New User » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:06 am UTC

Try Anti-Idle: The Game. The user interface is a lot more busy but it looks like the kind of game you described.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Enokh » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:32 pm UTC

I thought A Dark/Firelit Room was super boring until I found out there was a map to explore.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Xanthir » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

New User wrote:Try Anti-Idle: The Game. The user interface is a lot more busy but it looks like the kind of game you described.

Anti-Idle is all kinds of crazy. Clearly designed by someone with zero design skill, but it's got layer upon layer of *stuff* to idle (or not) with.

Edit: Anti-Idle has taken over my life. Goddammit.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:18 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:I've been playing Candy Box, and after forgetting to save and accidentally closing, I thought I was all clever not eating any candies. I thought the system where your health was randomised was really annoying until I worked it out :P
Augh! I would be angry at being spoiled if not for the fact that I might never have figured that out myself.

Reminds me a lot of the old BBS door games, especially in how it is a vicious time waster.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:10 pm UTC

Okay, so is there any particular trick in finishing the last level? Other than chugging invulnerability potions and hoping for the best?

I still have two mysterious empty slots in my inventory.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SirBryghtside » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:49 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Okay, so is there any particular trick in finishing the last level? Other than chugging invulnerability potions and hoping for the best?

I still have two mysterious empty slots in my inventory.

Spoiler:
When you get to the final enemy there, a message flashes up
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:52 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:
Jorpho wrote:Okay, so is there any particular trick in finishing the last level? Other than chugging invulnerability potions and hoping for the best?

I still have two mysterious empty slots in my inventory.

Spoiler:
When you get to the final enemy there, a message flashes up
Yes, yes, I noticed that. And I'm sure it is also very important to ensure the window has the proper focus. There just doesn't seem to be enough time to act, and getting that far in itself seems to be substantially up to chance.

EDIT: Never mind, finally got it. Yay! I am free!

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:05 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Okay, so is there any particular trick in finishing the last level? Other than chugging invulnerability potions and hoping for the best?

I still have two mysterious empty slots in my inventory.


It should give you a hint when you reach the final boss - the lesser enemies before then are a random assortment of enemies from earlier in the game. Teleport scrolls and seeds can buy you time for potion cooldowns, but the final encounter comes down to luck and fast keyboard skills (or insane amounts of time building stats - insane in this case being significantly longer than a human lifetime - but that's impractical).

Spoiler:
Watch the opponent display rather than the confusing primary display. When you face DEV rather than something with a name made of Bs, Gs and/or Us just mash keys as fast as you can and hope to hit the right one - each time you face him, his weakness is a different random key, but the right keystroke will instantly win the fight


The missing slots are filled when you beat the final boss.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby OklahomaJoe » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:39 am UTC

Enokh wrote:I thought A Dark/Firelit Room was super boring until I found out there was a map to explore.


Ironically I got turned off once I got to the map part, especially the combat stuff.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:09 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:01 am UTC

Yay, I finished A Dark Room.

SecondTalon wrote:Playing through it different times - the map changes.
Taking a peek at the wiki, it seems that I missed quite a bit. Never managed to make bullets, for instance. Not sure I want to go through all that again, though. I like how it kind of feels like one of those old-timey type-in-the-magazine-listing games. (Remember those?)

In the meantime I am still struggling to acquire 10^12 lollipops, and debating whether I want to continue flailing at Candy Box on Hard Mode. Haven't quite worked out the strategy for the Devil yet; everything else is fairly straightforward.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Krealr » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:58 pm UTC



I think I won....

I've beaten all 20 levels several times. But there is no indication of either winning or having something else to do.
I have golden armor/sword/shield and knights helmet as well as the boots (never found an upgrade for them)
I'm actually to the point where I can just put the last dungeon on fastest speed and walk away without worrying about dying.

I did find an integer overflow when trying to upgrade you equipment past around 25 or so. Actually ends up letting you get a few upgrades for free while increasing your gems when it tries to subtract a negative value.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:12 am UTC

Krealr wrote:


I think I won....

I've beaten all 20 levels several times. But there is no indication of either winning or having something else to do.
I have golden armor/sword/shield and knights helmet as well as the boots (never found an upgrade for them)
I'm actually to the point where I can just put the last dungeon on fastest speed and walk away without worrying about dying.

I did find an integer overflow when trying to upgrade you equipment past around 25 or so. Actually ends up letting you get a few upgrades for free while increasing your gems when it tries to subtract a negative value.


I haven't beaten #20 yet, but am up to King's Helmet (30%), Golden Sword/Armour/Shield and Boots with 3 empty slots in my inventory (one of which is for regular healing potions if I bother to buy any)

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:46 pm UTC

Krealr wrote:


I think I won....


Yeah, if that's it, it's kinda disappointing, but it's consistent with the general feel of the game - "like Candybox only not as good" - sure, the graphics are better, but the design lacks the wit and originality of Candybox - mechanically, all the monsters are the same except for HP and attack values, and all the levels are the same apart from path length and number of teleport checkpoints - the only reason you need to vary your strategy during the game is because the damage spells don't scale at all, so you reach the point where, rather than spamming damage spells to wipe out the enemies, you spam healing to keep yourself alive.

Unless there's something we're missing, the game doesn't end so much as run out of content...

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:11 am UTC

Agreed, it is a pale imitation. The graphics aren't even that much better. I can't find anything to do after the last quest either.

Are any of you still playing Anti-Idle? I feel like I'm missing something important in the Battle Arena, considering there seems to be way too much stuff crammed into a tiny interface. It only seems safe to idle with Auto-Fight in The Sky.

Also, is it really going to take 40 days to accumulate 10^12 lollipops in Candy Box?

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Xanthir » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:58 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Are any of you still playing Anti-Idle? I feel like I'm missing something important in the Battle Arena, considering there seems to be way too much stuff crammed into a tiny interface. It only seems safe to idle with Auto-Fight in The Sky.

Yes, I am. If you're only able to auto-fight in the sky, don't worry, you're just a *very* low level. It takes a while before you're strong enough to idle in the desert, because of the sand giants. If you have a protection ring, though, you can go ahead and do so.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:13 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Agreed, it is a pale imitation. The graphics aren't even that much better. I can't find anything to do after the last quest either.

[...]

Also, is it really going to take 40 days to accumulate 10^12 lollipops in Candy Box?


It's also a little wider than my (1280*1024) screen resolution, but doesn't put up scroll bars, which is more than a little annoying...

You should only need 10^9 or so lollipops to get to ludicrous candy and lollipop levels pretty quickly - the level 3 bug (10^8 lollipops) sometimes triples your candies and exponential growth, combined with free one-for-one conversion between candies and lollipops gives you quite large exponents fairly quickly - I have ~10^57 lollipops and ~10^90 candies and could cheerfully increase both numbers pretty easily.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:33 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:the level 3 bug (10^8 lollipops) sometimes triples your candies and exponential growth, combined with free one-for-one conversion between candies and lollipops gives you quite large exponents fairly quickly
Ohh! Thank you for that, I thought it was always just +1 sword level. But there's no way to hasten the conversion rate, is there?

Xanthir wrote:Yes, I am. If you're only able to auto-fight in the sky, don't worry, you're just a *very* low level. It takes a while before you're strong enough to idle in the desert, because of the sand giants. If you have a protection ring, though, you can go ahead and do so.
The confusing thing is that you're allowed to go to those places long before you're able to survive for any length of time.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:30 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:the level 3 bug (10^8 lollipops) sometimes triples your candies and exponential growth, combined with free one-for-one conversion between candies and lollipops gives you quite large exponents fairly quickly
Ohh! Thank you for that, I thought it was always just +1 sword level. But there's no way to hasten the conversion rate, is there?


Candies-> Lollipops, you just need to wait it out, but the conversion rate grows as you leave the converter running - if I remember correctly, the conversion rate grows linearly until it reaches a certain threshold, then it switches to exponential.

Lollipops->Candies, you need to visit the Sorceress, and exchange a fixed amount per click - it works, but it's only really worth doing for seed candies if you're not in a position to take out the Dev - once you've got enough lollipops, just using the tripling bug repeatedly on the candies you get automatically will turn a comfortable profit.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Xanthir » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:02 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Xanthir wrote:Yes, I am. If you're only able to auto-fight in the sky, don't worry, you're just a *very* low level. It takes a while before you're strong enough to idle in the desert, because of the sand giants. If you have a protection ring, though, you can go ahead and do so.
The confusing thing is that you're allowed to go to those places long before you're able to survive for any length of time.

You can anti-idle in those places pretty well, especially if you've set up your skills properly (Power Attack or Quick Attack). But yeah, even then, you can definitely go much further than you can actually fight.
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby New User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:58 pm UTC

Here's one I just heard about called Cookie Clicker. Haven't played it, but thought I'd share it here. It's apparently still in development or something.

http://orteil.dashnet.org/experiments/cookie/

Is this a new genre of game that's suddenly become wildly popular or something? Other than Anti-Idle I haven't ever seen games like this and now I am hearing about them frequently.

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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby SirBryghtside » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:06 am UTC

New User wrote:Here's one I just heard about called Cookie Clicker. Haven't played it, but thought I'd share it here. It's apparently still in development or something.

http://orteil.dashnet.org/experiments/cookie/

Is this a new genre of game that's suddenly become wildly popular or something? Other than Anti-Idle I haven't ever seen games like this and now I am hearing about them frequently.

Seems like a stripped-down version of the others really. I got to the portal fairly quickly and the final is just 3 or so hours of waiting.

Still quite interesting from a mathematical perspective - I'd like to see a speedrun of some of these games.
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Mimsy
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Mimsy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:20 pm UTC

I'm one of those people who have been playing Anti-Idle for 6 months and knows everything about it. My advice: join the chat room (room #3 all the way!) and ask questions if you ever need help being optimal. As for the Battle Arena, it's pretty boring until you can do the raids. The Battle Arena is eventually most of the game but if you haven't gotten bored of them yet the Card game and Arcade are both really fun.

Most people idle the Battle Arena overnight. There's a place that is particularly effective... :)

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Jorpho
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:38 pm UTC

Mimsy wrote:I'm one of those people who have been playing Anti-Idle for 6 months and knows everything about it. My advice: join the chat room (room #3 all the way!) and ask questions if you ever need help being optimal. As for the Battle Arena, it's pretty boring until you can do the raids. The Battle Arena is eventually most of the game but if you haven't gotten bored of them yet the Card game and Arcade are both really fun.

Most people idle the Battle Arena overnight. There's a place that is particularly effective... :)
I'm around level 3500, arena rank 200, 455 achievements, and I have to admit it's getting a little dull. I've maxed out the Stadium and I'm well on my way to maxing out the Garden; I'm hoping to get a big stock of RandomFruit before I start raising a pet (again). Pong and Avoidance are so frustrating that I have no idea what I can do except throw thousands of medals at each of them, and I'm still clueless as to what's going on in MindSweeper. One of these days I'll set aside some time to reach 50 million in Fishing so I can get whatever fancy rod is there; trying to save up 850K Blue Coins for the rod in the Mystery Shop seems like it's going to take a very, very long time (though the Fishing itself may help with that). I seem to be very, very slowly getting somewhere in the card game, at least.

I am somewhat concerned about what a drain on my life this thing is (I haven't quite gotten up in the middle of the night to tend to my Garden yet), and yet I don't really want to start looking at advice just yet, because what fun is that?

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Jorpho
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby Jorpho » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:10 pm UTC

Augh! I just realized that although some parts of the game seem to function normally when the game's tab isn't at the front of the browser window, others function much more effectively when it is! There's news I could have used.

rmsgrey
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Re: Idle Games - Candy Box, A Firelit Room

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:26 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Augh! I just realized that although some parts of the game seem to function normally when the game's tab isn't at the front of the browser window, others function much more effectively when it is! There's news I could have used.

Which game?

***

SirBryghtside wrote:
New User wrote:Here's one I just heard about called Cookie Clicker. Haven't played it, but thought I'd share it here. It's apparently still in development or something.

http://orteil.dashnet.org/experiments/cookie/

Is this a new genre of game that's suddenly become wildly popular or something? Other than Anti-Idle I haven't ever seen games like this and now I am hearing about them frequently.

Seems like a stripped-down version of the others really. I got to the portal fairly quickly and the final is just 3 or so hours of waiting.

Still quite interesting from a mathematical perspective - I'd like to see a speedrun of some of these games.


There's a more complete version at http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/ which is updating fairly frequently (every few days) with more content - I've managed to awaken the grandmatriarch - though the doom and gloom appears to be mostly fluff rather than having much mechanical impact - and there's a steep cost for suppressing the cosmetic effects...


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