Doctor Whom

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby animeHrmIne » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:54 pm UTC

I cannot wait at all for Saturday! I'm glad this is one of the first shows starting, and right after all of my summer shows end. Senior year in IB is apparently a bitch, and the fewer shows on at a time, the better.

Besides that, I need to know how they're going to move from Demon's Run, 51st century, to Germany, 20th century, and still make it feel like a two-parter. I hope it doesn't feel too disjointed.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:06 pm UTC

Having picked up the excitement here I'm not actually going to be watching it on Saturday :(

I'll be in a field camping until Monday morning. As soon as I get back I'll be watching the hell out of it though!
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:10 am UTC

keozen wrote:Having picked up the excitement here I'm not actually going to be watching it on Saturday :(

I'll be in a field camping until Monday morning. As soon as I get back I'll be watching the hell out of it though!


i know how you feel, i am going camping in the second week of september, depending on how good the episode looks i might waste a load of battery and data on my phone just to watch it on iplayer :D

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Sytri » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:28 am UTC

I'm the same, I had my Saturday planned out until I remembered I am in Leeds, in a field, watching some bands play.

And next week I'm at a wedding.

The week after that, it's my birthday celebrations. (It's my birthday next week but have to go to the wedding instead :()

Thank the flying spaghetti monster for Sky+

Edited for my terrible spelling
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:38 am UTC

Yeah, I'd try doing the mobile iplayer thing but to be honest I've been looking forward to it so much that I think it deserves to be watched comfy on a sofa with a cup of tea and a jammy dodger.

Thankfully being in a field in the middle of nowhere I should be able to keep spoiler free. I'm even banning myself from Twitter from Sat afternoon onwards.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:27 pm UTC

Ok, that was . . . interesting.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby weiyaoli » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:18 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Uh...

If the little child was River's past regeneration, surely she remembers already killing the doctor in that spacesuit earlier? Unless River was the one in the spacesuit?

Also the doctor dressing up before he dies :| (cool, but totally crazy). I must admit I definitely enjoyed the gun(s) scene.

I wished we saw more of Mel (or whatever the previous regeneration was called), she seemed fun and interesting.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby MiB24601 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:20 pm UTC

Spoiler:
weiyaoli wrote:If the little child was River's past regeneration, surely she remembers already killing the doctor in that spacesuit earlier? Unless River was the one in the spacesuit?


It's definitely going to be worth going through all the Melody/River appearances and trying to figure out where they all go because her timeline doesn't make sense right now. I'm hoping that when the season ends, there was enough planning put into her timeline that it will make sense when more is revealed.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:56 am UTC

Spoiler:
A) River's Best entrance yet.
B) Loved the throwaway line: "I think I'll go a little younger, slowly to freak people out"
C) Rory's a badass now.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby animeHrmIne » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:13 am UTC

Whelan wrote:
Spoiler:
C) Rory's a badass now.

This.
Spoiler:
For me, this is the first time that Rory crossed that line between awkward and awesome. He's always been pretty cool, but this was fucking amazing.

He was confident and competent, and I can't remember both happening at the same time before. The snarking seemed much less defensive than usual. And he was just . . . amazing. Honestly, I don't know about the plot (I loved it, but I need more context to evaluate it fully), but this episode was everyone's absolute best in terms of acting. Everybody was perfect.

And that Melody/Doctor kiss was by far the most excellent kiss in the history of non-chalant talking-kisses I have ever seen. Very cool.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:41 am UTC

GAAAH why can they not SPIKKA ENGLISS

I had to listen to "I'm gonna wear lots of jumpers" ten times before I finally figured it out.

Also that was all resolved with downright alarming expediency.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby animeHrmIne » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:57 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:GAAAH why can they not SPIKKA ENGLISS

I had to listen to "I'm gonna wear lots of jumpers" ten times before I finally figured it out.

Also that was all resolved with downright alarming expediency.


I feel like it's more a diversion than truly solving things. There are still loads of questions to be answered.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:49 am UTC

Spoiler:
The only thing I don't understand is: if the poison was on River's lips and was given to the Doctor via her kiss, then how did the poison not affect her? This question also applies to previous instances where she chemically attacks someone with her mouth.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soralin » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:26 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
Spoiler:
The only thing I don't understand is: if the poison was on River's lips and was given to the Doctor via her kiss, then how did the poison not affect her? This question also applies to previous instances where she chemically attacks someone with her mouth.

Spoiler:
Lip balm? I mean, all you'd need to do is to put on something that would coat your lips, and then put the poison on over the top of that.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:59 am UTC

Spoiler:
I was disappointed by the amount of Hitler in this episode. Ah well.

Soralin wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:
Spoiler:
The only thing I don't understand is: if the poison was on River's lips and was given to the Doctor via her kiss, then how did the poison not affect her? This question also applies to previous instances where she chemically attacks someone with her mouth.

Spoiler:
Lip balm? I mean, all you'd need to do is to put on something that would coat your lips, and then put the poison on over the top of that.
Spoiler:
Or take the antidote beforehand.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:13 am UTC

Spoiler:
Yes, but Ameliathe voice interface specifically says there's no cure (in this particular instance). Also, lip balm isn't going to completely prevent the poison from getting in the mouth.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby blue_eyedspacemonkey » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:49 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:GAAAH why can they not SPIKKA ENGLISS

I had to listen to "I'm gonna wear lots of jumpers" ten times before I finally figured it out.

Also that was all resolved with downright alarming expediency.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:28 pm UTC

A friend of mine came to watch it, but she was late because of rain and walked in when
Spoiler:
Mels/River was regenerating.
I had to do a lot of explaining :P

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:47 am UTC

I didn't like "Let's Kill Hitler", not least because it featured far too little of people trying to kill Hitler.
Spoiler:
This felt a lot like some of Russell's old episodes, where he came up with a cool idea ("Let's kill Hitler!") and a necessary story point that needed to be hit ("We meet River Song") and filled in the gaps to make it kind of work ("Time-travelling clone robots that deliver Justice to criminals - oh, and the Doctor and River Song are both criminals!"). The problem is, everything moved too quickly and nothing was really explored in enough depth.

  • Hitler - had about 5 minutes of screen time and was then shoved into a cupboard. I knew from the start that he wasn't actually going to be killed, but couldn't we at least have a few more scenes to see what does happen to him? Heck, this is relatively early in WWII, so why can't we have the usual time travel thing of having the visiting travellers inspire some of his crazier decisions?
  • Amy and Rory - got back to the present, how? Did River just drop them off?
  • Mels - had barely any more screen time than Hitler, was suddenly introduced as "Amy and Rory's best friend" with a little bit of hand-waving to explain why we've never seen her before, and then suddenly revealed to be Melody Pond/River Song. Stephen Moffatt is usually so good at dropping all of the hints far back in the past and having them all suddenly make sense; this was just lazy. I would have even accepted some kind of "wibbly wobbly" explanation of Mels being inserted into the timeline post hoc after the events of Devils Run.
  • The Doctor - Oh no! He's dying from something that's stopping him from regenerating and has no cure! Oh wait, he was cured by River's regenerations. How convenient. It's like they wanted to deal with everyone's question of why she didn't regenerate in the Library and so needed a quick way of showing that this is her last life. And also, does that mean that he's now got extra regenerations? Will this keep them going for a few more actors?
  • River Song - so she's suddenly gone from mindless psychopath to the River Song we know and love? I suppose she technically still hasn't killed the Doctor, so she doesn't have to go to prison yet, so maybe it's ok that she's now enrolling in Luna Uni. But then, when does she (and thanks to those people in the robot for confirming that it is indeed her responsible for it, and that it happens in Utah)? I get the feeling this is a bit of a hole SM needs to dig himself out of, particularly now that it's been confirmed as a "fixed point" and so can't be retconned.
  • The robot - was the entire reason for this to drop a couple of arc plot points? So Melody got to learn that she's River (what was the point of "the only water in the forest" if she actually learned her name from this?) and the Doctor gets confirmation that he dies in Utah and we learn a little more about the Silence, which makes no sense whatsoever. If they're a "religious order", then what the hell were those things in the season opener? Is "the question" going to be "When does it all make sense"?
  • Sonics - the sonic cane was pretty cool, although I'm surprised the TARDIS is willing to give him another sonic just because he lent the screwdriver to Amy. But since when is it a thought interface? The old one needed a thousand twists of its dials to get the required effect, so this change just makes it even more like a magic wand.
  • Voice interface - this bit was seriously what the hell. An excuse to show some of the old companions and have the Doctor angst over how much guilt he's got, followed by a cameo from young Amelia and a bit of a pep talk. Is that all he really needed? I was hoping that it would actually turn out that fish fingers and custard could neutralise the poison or something. On that note, I don't mind that Melody was immune to her poison lip balm - I can imagine a variety of pseudosciencey explanations for it, like there being an antidote that you have to take beforehand or else it doesn't work, or something about it targeting only The Doctor or whatever.

On a slightly better note,
Spoiler:
Rory Williams: Punched out Hitler.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:33 am UTC

I have to agree. It felt patchy and like they were trying to cram far too much stuff into one episode.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SirBryghtside » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:40 am UTC

Yeah, agreed.

Spoiler:
Let's Kill Hitler was a wasted idea. Totally wasted. I liked the episode, but... wasted.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:46 am UTC

Hopefully a later episode is going to have some revelation about this one that makes it all worth it. Otherwise... well it was still a decent episode.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:37 am UTC

ConMan wrote:
Spoiler:
This felt a lot like some of Russell's old episodes, where he came up with a cool idea ("Let's kill Hitler!") and a necessary story point that needed to be hit ("We meet River Song") and filled in the gaps to make it kind of work ("Time-travelling clone robots that deliver Justice to criminals - oh, and the Doctor and River Song are both criminals!"). The problem is, everything moved too quickly and nothing was really explored in enough depth.

  • Hitler - had about 5 minutes of screen time and was then shoved into a cupboard. I knew from the start that he wasn't actually going to be killed, but couldn't we at least have a few more scenes to see what does happen to him? Heck, this is relatively early in WWII, so why can't we have the usual time travel thing of having the visiting travellers inspire some of his crazier decisions?
  • Amy and Rory - got back to the present, how? Did River just drop them off?
  • Mels - had barely any more screen time than Hitler, was suddenly introduced as "Amy and Rory's best friend" with a little bit of hand-waving to explain why we've never seen her before, and then suddenly revealed to be Melody Pond/River Song. Stephen Moffatt is usually so good at dropping all of the hints far back in the past and having them all suddenly make sense; this was just lazy. I would have even accepted some kind of "wibbly wobbly" explanation of Mels being inserted into the timeline post hoc after the events of Devils Run.
  • The Doctor - Oh no! He's dying from something that's stopping him from regenerating and has no cure! Oh wait, he was cured by River's regenerations. How convenient. It's like they wanted to deal with everyone's question of why she didn't regenerate in the Library and so needed a quick way of showing that this is her last life. And also, does that mean that he's now got extra regenerations? Will this keep them going for a few more actors?
  • River Song - so she's suddenly gone from mindless psychopath to the River Song we know and love? I suppose she technically still hasn't killed the Doctor, so she doesn't have to go to prison yet, so maybe it's ok that she's now enrolling in Luna Uni. But then, when does she (and thanks to those people in the robot for confirming that it is indeed her responsible for it, and that it happens in Utah)? I get the feeling this is a bit of a hole SM needs to dig himself out of, particularly now that it's been confirmed as a "fixed point" and so can't be retconned.
  • The robot - was the entire reason for this to drop a couple of arc plot points? So Melody got to learn that she's River (what was the point of "the only water in the forest" if she actually learned her name from this?) and the Doctor gets confirmation that he dies in Utah and we learn a little more about the Silence, which makes no sense whatsoever. If they're a "religious order", then what the hell were those things in the season opener? Is "the question" going to be "When does it all make sense"?
  • Sonics - the sonic cane was pretty cool, although I'm surprised the TARDIS is willing to give him another sonic just because he lent the screwdriver to Amy. But since when is it a thought interface? The old one needed a thousand twists of its dials to get the required effect, so this change just makes it even more like a magic wand.
  • Voice interface - this bit was seriously what the hell. An excuse to show some of the old companions and have the Doctor angst over how much guilt he's got, followed by a cameo from young Amelia and a bit of a pep talk. Is that all he really needed? I was hoping that it would actually turn out that fish fingers and custard could neutralise the poison or something. On that note, I don't mind that Melody was immune to her poison lip balm - I can imagine a variety of pseudosciencey explanations for it, like there being an antidote that you have to take beforehand or else it doesn't work, or something about it targeting only The Doctor or whatever.


This is precisely what I meant by "resolved with downright alarming expediency." Sometimes it makes me sad that I can't muster the necessary enthusiasm to rant at length about things anymore.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:43 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:This is precisely what I meant by "resolved with downright alarming expediency." Sometimes it makes me sad that I can't muster the necessary enthusiasm to rant at length about things anymore.

I find myself annoyingly capable of ranting at length even when I generally enjoyed something. In this case, though, my general feeling was "blah". It wasn't terrible, but it didn't feel like a great season opener (or even half-season opener). Still, my second spoiler covers the main thing that saved the episode.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:04 am UTC

Oh, and let's not forget
Spoiler:
the Doctor seemed awfully sure at the end of Demon's Run as to where exactly he was going to find Melody. What the heck does it even mean he spent "all summer" looking? Isn't that kind of meaningless as far as time travel is concerned?

I'm sure a lot of people were thinking, "He knows exactly where to find her, because all inexperienced time travelers immediately head out to kill Hitler!"

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Robert'); DROP TABLE *; » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:04 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Oh, and let's not forget
Spoiler:
the Doctor seemed awfully sure at the end of Demon's Run as to where exactly he was going to find Melody. What the heck does it even mean he spent "all summer" looking? Isn't that kind of meaningless as far as time travel is concerned?

Did the Doctor himself ever mention that? I thought that was just Amy's personal timeline.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:32 pm UTC

Robert'); DROP TABLE *; wrote:
Jorpho wrote:Oh, and let's not forget
Spoiler:
the Doctor seemed awfully sure at the end of Demon's Run as to where exactly he was going to find Melody. What the heck does it even mean he spent "all summer" looking? Isn't that kind of meaningless as far as time travel is concerned?

Did the Doctor himself ever mention that? I thought that was just Amy's personal timeline.

It is, but I think he means the doctor could've spent years searching, then teleport back a second after he left them. He's a time traveller, so that wouldn't matter. Instead he left them in doubt for months.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Robert'); DROP TABLE *; » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:30 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Robert'); DROP TABLE *; wrote:
Jorpho wrote:Oh, and let's not forget
Spoiler:
the Doctor seemed awfully sure at the end of Demon's Run as to where exactly he was going to find Melody. What the heck does it even mean he spent "all summer" looking? Isn't that kind of meaningless as far as time travel is concerned?

Did the Doctor himself ever mention that? I thought that was just Amy's personal timeline.

It is, but I think he means the doctor could've spent years searching, then teleport back a second after he left them. He's a time traveller, so that wouldn't matter. Instead he left them in doubt for months.

Yes, but he can't fly the TARDIS that accurately.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:38 am UTC

Eleven apparently can fly the TARDIS pretty accurately; the finagling in Christmas Carol, for example, required a whole bunch of very accurate jumps. Not like Ten getting there years too late for Madame Pompadour (though maybe the other stuff going on in that ep made that rougher, but I don't believe the show ever *said* so). The "all summer" was a bit of winky-wink fourth-wall breakage.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:43 am UTC

H.E.L.e.N. wrote:Eleven apparently can fly the TARDIS pretty accurately; the finagling in Christmas Carol, for example, required a whole bunch of very accurate jumps. Not like Ten getting there years too late for Madame Pompadour (though maybe the other stuff going on in that ep made that rougher, but I don't believe the show ever *said* so). The "all summer" was a bit of winky-wink fourth-wall breakage.


I thought that was just an oversight on his part; not checking history books or something.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:47 am UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
H.E.L.e.N. wrote:Eleven apparently can fly the TARDIS pretty accurately; the finagling in Christmas Carol, for example, required a whole bunch of very accurate jumps. Not like Ten getting there years too late for Madame Pompadour (though maybe the other stuff going on in that ep made that rougher, but I don't believe the show ever *said* so). The "all summer" was a bit of winky-wink fourth-wall breakage.


I thought that was just an oversight on his part; not checking history books or something.


Nah, I'm pretty sure he thought he was turning around to come right back, and then ... lots and lots of time had passed, whoops. But I wouldn't be surprised at some extra pan-dimensional drift in that ep or what have you.

And actually Eleven has the same problem when he says he'll come back for younger-Pond (beginning of series 5), and then doesn't make it til she's grownuppish. So perhaps never mind?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:38 am UTC

H.E.L.e.N. wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:
H.E.L.e.N. wrote:Eleven apparently can fly the TARDIS pretty accurately; the finagling in Christmas Carol, for example, required a whole bunch of very accurate jumps. Not like Ten getting there years too late for Madame Pompadour (though maybe the other stuff going on in that ep made that rougher, but I don't believe the show ever *said* so). The "all summer" was a bit of winky-wink fourth-wall breakage.


I thought that was just an oversight on his part; not checking history books or something.


Nah, I'm pretty sure he thought he was turning around to come right back, and then ... lots and lots of time had passed, whoops. But I wouldn't be surprised at some extra pan-dimensional drift in that ep or what have you.

And actually Eleven has the same problem when he says he'll come back for younger-Pond (beginning of series 5), and then doesn't make it til she's grownuppish. So perhaps never mind?


That was because the tardis was damaged; you could be right about the first part though.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby phlip » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:11 am UTC

Spoiler:
There were a few other places in early Season 5 where the Doctor was aiming for a particular time, and arrived late... the Churchill/Daleks episode, for instance. I think they were supposed to be one of the first symptoms of the universe collapsing... I seem to remember the Doctor making some comment about how he's been arriving late for stuff a lot more than he'd expect, in that episode. Either as a part of the everything-is-going-weird "why can't you remember the Daleks?" "why aren't there any ducks in the duck pond?" bit, or elsewhere, I forget exactly.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

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Cytoplasm
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Cytoplasm » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:44 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:Yeah, agreed.

Spoiler:
Let's Kill Hitler was a wasted idea. Totally wasted. I liked the episode, but... wasted.



I do agree with you guys.

Spoiler:
I would have liked it if Mels was somehow mentioned somewhere in the past. I did feel they just crammed stuff together to fill the gaps that still needed explained. It was quite a crazy episode though.


Edit: @philip:
Spoiler:
Ah! That explains why no one could remember the crazy stuff that had happened on earth. I wondered when they were going to explain why no one could remember. but, that makes sense. I need to rewatch that season again.
¡No tengo miedo a fantasmas!

Spoiler:
Cytoplasm: I have catoragized some of my family into lolcats.
Felstaff: For a drudging Thursday afternoon, that level of cuteness has really made my day. Can... Can I keep you?

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Cytoplasm wrote:shannonigans

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GraphiteGirl
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby GraphiteGirl » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:59 am UTC

So, um, can we talk about this?
Spoiler:
Amy: “I don’t understand, one minute she’s gonna marry you, and then she’s gonna kill you?”

Doctor: “Ah well, she’s been brainwashed, it all makes sense - plus, she’s a woman!”

Amy looks pissed.

Doctor: “Oh shut up, I’m dying.”

I'm not even surprised, I'm just disappointed.
Sandry wrote:Man, my commitment to sparkle motion is waaaaay lower than you are intimating.

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TaintedDeity
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:53 pm UTC

I feel like River has been getting more and more ridiculous as time has gone by and I'm not happy with it. She was my favourite character, and now she feels like some silly, tacked-on character fawning over the doctor. She was cool because she was independent and in the latest episode she was reduced to jokes that amounted to "lol check out my butt aren't women craaazy!"
They broke River >:|
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charliepanayi
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:20 pm UTC

But that means in a way River has actually been getting better as a character, since this was her beginning.
"Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"

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TaintedDeity
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:36 pm UTC

I hate time.
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AvatarIII
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:51 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:They broke River >:|


Damn!

Spoiler:
:twisted: :lol:

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ArgonV
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:42 pm UTC

GraphiteGirl wrote:So, um, can we talk about this?
Spoiler:
Amy: “I don’t understand, one minute she’s gonna marry you, and then she’s gonna kill you?”

Doctor: “Ah well, she’s been brainwashed, it all makes sense - plus, she’s a woman!”

Amy looks pissed.

Doctor: “Oh shut up, I’m dying.”

I'm not even surprised, I'm just disappointed.


Guess it goes both ways, the female friend I was watching it with, laughed at that remark..


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