[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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fyrenwater
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby fyrenwater » Wed May 06, 2009 5:09 am UTC

Ah yes, the gender problem. The newspaper at a past school of mine got utterly confused at that. One person confused the hell outta the writers. I think s/he identified as bigender, so even s/he would switch pronouns and nicknames. S/He personally went with "s/he" and "hir". Anyway, even after s/he joined the newspaper, there was still gender pronoun confusion. Our Homecoming King was a butch lesbian that still identified as female, yet was given male pronouns in a few articles. Oy. *facepalm*

Personally I just go with female pronouns. Feels most fitting and is the least confusing. Although if I'm purposely trying to mess with people, I choose "shkle" and "shklim"/"shkler". :lol:
...It made more sense in my head.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Amarantha » Wed May 06, 2009 5:13 am UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:Can you blame them though, for either not knowing which pronouns to use, or for choosing to use the pronouns which would avoid confusion among their readers?

I imagine it would be more confusing for the readers with the article constantly switching from one pronoun to the other depending on who's talking. But ya, I can certainly imagine them being clueless, regardless of what the style guides say.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Wed May 06, 2009 5:36 am UTC

fyrenwater wrote:Ah yes, the gender problem. The newspaper at a past school of mine got utterly confused at that. One person confused the hell outta the writers. I think s/he identified as bigender, so even s/he would switch pronouns and nicknames. S/He personally went with "s/he" and "hir". Anyway, even after s/he joined the newspaper, there was still gender pronoun confusion. Our Homecoming King was a butch lesbian that still identified as female, yet was given male pronouns in a few articles. Oy. *facepalm*

Personally I just go with female pronouns. Feels most fitting and is the least confusing. Although if I'm purposely trying to mess with people, I choose "shkle" and "shklim"/"shkler". :¡This cheese is burning me!:


Heh, I've confused quite a few people on the internet by occasional pronoun alteration. I go basically exclusively by male pronouns in the corporeal word because I'm, erm, built that way, and would rather most people not know my inner dialogue. Online, where I feel less bound by my body and more like I'm just a core brain without the troublesome meat, I tend to prefer feminine pronouns. Since "Shivahn" is feminine, I feel weird using male pronouns to refer to myself. Not that I don't feel weird using feminine ones, I just feel less so.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby semicharmed » Wed May 06, 2009 1:00 pm UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:Interesting! I had no idea journalists were so organised! :)


AP style for the win!
Re: the article. It's definitely something that should have been caught, but at the same time I can understand why it wasn't. I hope though, that it was just a simple copy-editing oversight and not a case of "well, we can't change the pronoun in the judge's quotes, but damned if we're going to use male pronouns on someone who was born female."
I worked for my college paper, and over the four years I was there we made some egregious copy-editing mistakes*, so I've been on the other side.

*Using the CFO's name instead of the name of the head football coach, in an article about how the head coach just got sacked? Not good.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Van » Sat May 09, 2009 3:32 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:
Van wrote:As for being trans, well. The way I can most easily describe it is: Being transgendered is knowing something so strongly that you're willing to tell society and logic to sit down, shut up, and drink their goddamn tea.
I feel weird about that tranquil feeling because it hasn't returned. I think it was a momentary epiphany. If I can just figure out how to reinduce it... This of course factors into my doubts all over again ><. Whee, here we go.

That's kind of what I meant by logic. Maybe this doesn't apply to your doubts, but a large part of mine was "does this make sense?", and to be honest, very little of it did. Hell, it still doesn't entirely make sense, but I'm at a point that I don't care: I'm happier now than I've ever been before, and that's enough proof for me to believe I'm doing the right thing. And now for the smoothest segue ever.

Speaking of being happy, I.. finally started HRT on Tuesday. :D I've heard that it commonly brings a sense of relief/calmness, but.. wow. While I still recognize it could just be the placebo effect or something, I feel good. I feel good in ways I wouldn't have even said I felt bad before. It's seriously a bit on the mindboggling side.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Sat May 09, 2009 3:34 am UTC

It's not necessarily a placebo. It could very well be your subconscious sex feeling relief that your physical sex is starting to align.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Delalyra » Sat May 09, 2009 6:18 pm UTC

Hooray for van!
you may remember me from 2008 or 2009. I left for a while. I'm now sporadically back. I tumble here.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby aging.child » Sat May 16, 2009 7:45 am UTC

Sooo. There used to be a coming out thread a while back, but I can't find it and it seems like it would merge nicely here anyway.
Spoiler:
So I came out to a good friend last fall, after some late-night deep philosophical talks on the band bus. She was really great about it and wrote me a note the next day saying that she would always love and support me, which was the best thing in the world for me. Thing is, after that, we never really got a chance to talk about it, and I have the feeling she's still kind of weirded out by the subject, which is understandable. I really need someone to talk to, but I don't want to burden her with all my problems and/or make her uncomfortable. And then there's the fact that her and her best friend like to go out and pretend to be a couple just to see people's reactions and laugh at their ignorance. Which really pisses me off, for some illogical reason. Anyway, I guess I just need to know how to bring up the subject without sounding either egotistical or like a jerk. Suggestions?

That was longer than I intended... Anyway, being that the people here are all really supportive, I thought it would be nice if we could talk about coming out, or just dealing with people in general. I'm sorry if I brought up bad memories for anyone.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Sat May 16, 2009 10:08 pm UTC

I think that's a good suggestion for a general thread like this one, and I'm glad you brought it up.

I don't have much to say at the moment, though.

Edit: Actually...

Spoiler:
aging.child wrote:And then there's the fact that her and her best friend like to go out and pretend to be a couple just to see people's reactions and laugh at their ignorance. Which really pisses me off, for some illogical reason.


I find that when straight/normative people are open/demonstrative in ways that I'm not comfortable being open, I get very tense. I think I'm partly jealous of the level of comfort they have with being so public, because I don't have that level of comfort. For them it's not a big soul-crushing deal, and for me it has been. It's an emotional reaction for me to have, but I don't think it's nonsense.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby aging.child » Sun May 17, 2009 12:03 am UTC

H.E.L.e.N. wrote: For them it's not a big soul-crushing deal, and for me it has been.

That sounds about right. But if I say anything, I look like a homophobe. I don't know whether I should just deal or if I have a right to say something. I mean, I'm sure they have good intentions, but it just pisses me off that they can go back to being straight.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Sun May 17, 2009 12:48 am UTC

I don't get angry, but I get... jealous when people can act how they want. It's partially a reflection of my own being shy, in general, which manifests itself as being terrified to stick out. At all, for much of anything. In that sense, it's not gender related or anything, it's just jealousy that other people can do what they want and I feel trapped by my own conditioning, so that I can never be myself.

I'm also jealous of girls, because they're girls, but that's a TOTALLY separate issue.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eternal luna » Sun May 17, 2009 3:15 am UTC

Another latecomer, and I just wanted to release some of my angst and confusion.
Spoiler:
So, I'm not entirely female- but the level changes. I'm awfully envious of biological males, to the point of hating them for their penises sometimes (which is amplified when I'm in a sexual relationship with one), but half the time I enjoy traditionally feminine behaviours and dress accordingly. It almost feels as though I want to be trans- presenting as female, but with male organs. I'm guessing that some of this is due to the sexual trauma I've had, but that feels so invalidating, and I have trouble quieting the accusatory voices that label me a fake for it. Then there's the issue of sexual attraction: right now, I'd say I'm predominantly attracted to women, and that sexual attraction to males comes after emotional attraction, but my only long-term relationships have been with boys, and, during those, I felt that the balance had shifted the other way (i.e. that I was more attracted to boys). Right now, I can't even imagine sex with a boy without a degree of nausea. I feel between all of the labels at the moment. "Lesbian" sounds pleasing to me, but I've had sexual relationships with boys and probably will again, and so I don't feel I qualify. Bisexual seems awkward, since I'm especially attracted to androgynous or trans people, and only to feminine men. I suppose "queer" as a catch-all is the best thing for me, but I'm having trouble with the idea that my sexual identity could be the way it is because of the rapes. It doesn't feel as real, and I feel guilty for possibly invalidating other people's labels.
That was more rambling than I'd have liked.

Edit: Also, I need some help. It's winter here so I can hide my breasts under jumpers fairly easily, but I find that the biggest give-aways that I'm biologically female are my eyebrows; my mother forced me to wax them into thin, tapering arches from an early age, and they won't grow back. Every attempt I've made to thicken them has resulted in overly dark and obviously made-up eyebrows. Does anyone know how to fix this?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Rinsaikeru » Sun May 17, 2009 6:18 am UTC

Eyebrow thickening:

-Draw hair like lines rather than just colouring the whole area in chockablock.
-Try eyebrow powder and see if it looks more natural. Apply it in motions that sweep upwards slightly
-Try to get the colour closest to your eyebrow colour.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Carnildo » Sun May 17, 2009 6:39 am UTC

eternal luna wrote:I feel between all of the labels at the moment. "Lesbian" sounds pleasing to me, but I've had sexual relationships with boys and probably will again, and so I don't feel I qualify. Bisexual seems awkward, since I'm especially attracted to androgynous or trans people, and only to feminine men.

That's why I dislike labels: they tend not to fit, and they reduce complicated people to single words.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby michaelandjimi » Sun May 17, 2009 7:15 am UTC

Thanks to Author's post in the Intro Thread, I think I'm successfully identified. Bisexual, heteroromantic. Hooray!

This thread can now be locked.*

*Note: I am joking.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Cynwulf » Sun May 17, 2009 7:26 am UTC

Carnildo wrote:
eternal luna wrote:I feel between all of the labels at the moment. "Lesbian" sounds pleasing to me, but I've had sexual relationships with boys and probably will again, and so I don't feel I qualify. Bisexual seems awkward, since I'm especially attracted to androgynous or trans people, and only to feminine men.

That's why I dislike labels: they tend not to fit, and they reduce complicated people to single words.


Booya. One-word categorizations fail.
L'homme est libre au moment qu'il veut l'être. | Man is free at the instant he wants to be.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DJorgensen » Sun May 17, 2009 7:32 am UTC

:3 Luna, I really can't tell you much but I can admit that I really feel kinda the same. It mostly comes down to the matter that I am me and I change - even from day to day. I like girls, but I do like guys too. Unfortunately I often find myself with an aversion to most men - especially the more manly types. They just simply have the ability to induce near instant panic if they make the wrong move on me... As for gender, I say female. I mostly feel that way. I mean I have boy parts and boobs and kinda walk the fine line between the two - well really I have walked that line for years from the boy side, but now that I am more from the girl side of things I am far far far far far far more content (the static in my brain is even gone - I mean even for better or worse - my concentration and focus are still shot because now my mind doesn't stop, but I have thoughts however crazy they be!). That said I still feel kinda mixed up when it comes to gender. I don't mind being really boyish. I've far less trouble with these parts I have in my pants now, and the fact that others are cool with it - while baffling at times - takes a huge weight off of my shoulders.

At the end of the day though. Labels suck. I am just me.
Labels can shorten my endless changing description of me, but they fail to define who I am and what I stand for.

You are really pretty Luna, and you are allowed to dress and act and like whomever you wish to. If others have an objection to it, that's their problem, and not something that you can really concern yourself with much. As much as its sometimes a lonely and cruel world out there, no matter what happens you've always got friends here *hug* :3

Edit, and have I ever been ninja'd ._.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Cynwulf » Sun May 17, 2009 7:45 am UTC

DJorgensen wrote:Edit, and have I ever been ninja'd ._.
Too many sparkly random things... I can't believe this took me an hour...

Ninja'd perhaps, but people will take the time to read what you wrote. I do. I spend much more time lurking than posting, and you are one of the few people on the fora I tend to always read.
L'homme est libre au moment qu'il veut l'être. | Man is free at the instant he wants to be.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DJorgensen » Sun May 17, 2009 8:12 am UTC

Cynwulf wrote:
DJorgensen wrote:Edit, and have I ever been ninja'd ._.
Too many sparkly random things... I can't believe this took me an hour...

Ninja'd perhaps, but people will take the time to read what you wrote. I do. I spend much more time lurking than posting, and you are one of the few people on the fora I tend to always read.

:oops: I lurk more than I post too for the most part. Aaaaand I am kinda all super absolutely blushy faced from tonight and getting attention and now with the thought that people might actually be reading this!
*runs off to hide*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eternal luna » Sun May 17, 2009 8:21 am UTC

Denby, you are far, far too cute. *Love*

Thanks, Rin. Will give it a shot.
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-Хули? Нихуя! Нехуй расхуяривать! Нахуячено нехуёво! Похуярили!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DJorgensen » Sun May 17, 2009 8:50 am UTC

eternal luna wrote:Denby, you are far, far too cute. *Love*

Thanks, Rin. Will give it a shot.

awwe :oops: *goes back to hiding under blankie*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Cynwulf » Sun May 17, 2009 4:44 pm UTC

DJorgensen wrote: :oops: I lurk more than I post too for the most part. Aaaaand I am kinda all super absolutely blushy faced from tonight and getting attention and now with the thought that people might actually be reading this!
*runs off to hide*


Awwww! *cookie*

Well this is a support thread, and I figured I could be sappy and compliment you for doing a good job of being supportive to everybody else all the time. Sorry for causing any mild embarrassment >>;
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DJorgensen » Sun May 17, 2009 7:49 pm UTC

Cynwulf wrote:
DJorgensen wrote: :oops: I lurk more than I post too for the most part. Aaaaand I am kinda all super absolutely blushy faced from tonight and getting attention and now with the thought that people might actually be reading this!
*runs off to hide*


Awwww! *cookie*

Well this is a support thread, and I figured I could be sappy and compliment you for doing a good job of being supportive to everybody else all the time. Sorry for causing any mild embarrassment >>;

Oh no, I mean it's ok. I seem to sort of revel in being embarrassed and shy and blushy faced. Its kinda a really bad love/hate thing for me. I mean attention is wonderful, but being crazy and unsure of everything and panicking over nothing just makes dealing with attention really hard.
*sigh*
And again I am not sure that I am making sense as I really have no clue what I just even said. :/
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Cynwulf » Sun May 17, 2009 9:15 pm UTC

DJorgensen wrote:Oh no, I mean it's ok. I seem to sort of revel in being embarrassed and shy and blushy faced. Its kinda a really bad love/hate thing for me. I mean attention is wonderful, but being crazy and unsure of everything and panicking over nothing just makes dealing with attention really hard.
*sigh*
And again I am not sure that I am making sense as I really have no clue what I just even said. :/

No, that makes sense. You seem like a genuinely good person, and it is because you are very, hrm, anxious that I think you deserve to be lauded for all the good you do. Like I said, I'm being sappy because it's a support thread >///<
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Mon May 18, 2009 4:49 am UTC

Personally, I like self labels. I'm a woman, and I'm a lesbian. I don't care if I find pretty and androgynous boys sexy. I don't care if I fantasize about guys from time to time. I'm a lesbian. And I'm a woman.

Also, luna, you're awesome. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just be you. Because you're so cool :)

aging.child wrote:but it just pisses me off that they can go back to being straight.
This. Very much this. That's something I hate when I see straight people trying to "break" queer norms. they can laugh about how everyone doesn't get it, but they don't have to live the bad stuff. They can pretend to live the life from time to time if it makes them feel happy, but they can go home, and have a family who will implicitly love them for being who they are, they have friends who all understand them, and can make assumptions about them. They can laugh when someone calls them gay, because they're not. It isn't someone making fun of a basic piece of them.

Sorry. It just bugs me too. I like people pushing boundaries. It's just... uncomfortable sometimes. And I hate how it's not a choice for me. Even if people assume I'm just a regular girl, who's straight, that doesn't make me fit in better. Whatever.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Mon May 18, 2009 6:00 am UTC

Firstly, *hugs* to Luna. I'm basically where you are, in terms of knowing where I am.
Spoiler:
I... I'm pretty sure I'm female. Mostly. Maybe. The level of what I'm feeling definitely changes (I'm pretty mood-swingy right now, and I think I'm gender-swingy too, so this post might only be valid for a few minutes ><). I tend not to hate things, really, but I do get very very jealous of girls sometimes. Because they're girls. Lucky them. Because of that state, I don't know what I identify as in terms of attraction. Lesbian and heterosexual both seem like they kinda-sorta fit me, but since my body's is unambiguously male (hopefully my hair won't be soon, though), I feel like it'd cheapen the experience of lesbians to label myself one. That, and people who don't really get what I mean will think I'm just trying to make a stupid joke, or being a jerk, instead of trying to meaningfully communicate something deep inside me.

I'm in a strange, somewhat uncomfortable place, because I've realized that I'll never be happy with myself, ever. At least not without serious mental state alterations. I wish I'd been born a girl, sure, but I can live as a boy, I think. For some values of live. On my good days I won't think about it, or maybe just think intellectually. The bad days I'll stand in the shower cursing myself, getting teary whenever something reminds me that genders exist. Every time I see a female character on TV, or pick up a pencil to (try to) draw something, I feel a great longing. My throat and deep inside my chest will start to ache, kind of like a crush but far stronger and sadder. There IS an incredible urge to just be a girl.

I want to have had the stereotypical experiences. Shows involving teenage girls, for some reason, hit me really hard (probably because I'm young, and that's the most remembered period of my life). Though I know they're ridiculously simplistic, and not really realistic, they make me wish I'd been a girl throughout everything. I think I've mentioned this before, but that just seems like it's right. That's what I wanted, but couldn't have, throughout my life.

I kind of lost my train of thought (if I even had one...), so I'm going to cut it short.


Bleh, in terms of labels, I don't know. I want to have a label to call myself, because I find categories help me learn about the things in them, but I don't know if any fit me.

And the being somewhat angry at people that are acting gay, or toying around with it is the reason I'm hesitant to use certain labels, or even pronouns. I'm afraid I'll come off as doing that, or that maybe I AM doing that and have just convinced myself otherwise. So at the same time, seeing people do things like that makes me a little jealous (that people can joke around about it without it being a real issue), a little angry (...that people can joke around about it without it being a real issue), and a little scared (that maybe I appear like that, or AM like that and just too stupid or stubborn or whatnot to realize it).

Edit: Somewhat unrelated but I think I might have a growing bald spot above and in front of my left ear. I'm already using minoxidil, and I'm barely in my twenties. I wonder if my severe (really, severe) fear of baldness has anything to do with gender issues. I freely admit that I'm desperate for a full baldness cure before I start to lose tons of hair. I just started growing it out too ><. If fear of society robbed me of 20 years of long-hairedness, and I can't even have THAT, I don't know what I'll do :cry: . I really, really, really don't like being a boy sometimes. Most of the time, even.
Last edited by Shivahn on Wed May 20, 2009 6:25 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby steewi » Mon May 18, 2009 6:09 am UTC

Dang I wish there were a better way to randomly run into other people of interesting sexualities here. We have 300,000 freakin' people, and the primary meeting place is a nightclub whose main draws are lots of casual sex and high levels of drug use with loud music. Now, I'm fine that people like that, but there isn't really a different venue if you want to sit down and talk to people. It isn't bad enough that there is only a small portion of the population with whom I'm likely to find mutual attraction, but there's also little way to connect with them.

Sure, there's online dating, but eww, creepy.

Oh, and crushing on straight people sucks. You all know that already, but, well there you go.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Mon May 18, 2009 6:22 am UTC

There's this guy at work who's a homophobe. It really upset me when he told me (he said, in almost these exact words "I think pedophiles and homosexuals and sick and twisted"). Now not as much. It just disgusts me and I'd really rather not being around him, if I can. Alas, work.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby diotimajsh » Mon May 18, 2009 7:34 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:Every time I see a female character on TV, or pick up a pencil to (try to) draw something, I feel a great longing. My throat and deep inside my chest will start to ache, kind of like a crush but far stronger and sadder. There IS an incredible urge to just be a girl.
I've had that experience many many times, also just from walking around campus and seeing particularly pretty, cute, or well-dressed girls. Well, not precisely the throat/chest ache, and minus the pencil thing; but still that feeling of intense longing coupled with sadness at the (seeming) impossibility of being that way myself. Kind of... "That's not FAIR, how come I'm not like that?" or something.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby michaelandjimi » Mon May 18, 2009 10:17 am UTC

There's a free newspaper that is given out at a train station and I can read on the way home. It's normally fairly mindless - short news stories, weird things, puzzles, celebrity gossip, ranting, that sort of thing.

Spoiler'd for containing other people's offensive phrases:

Spoiler:
Today I read an article about an transsexual person. The general gist of the article was "Hey, honestly? It shouldn't really matter which gender you subscribe to, it's not like it really affects anything other than intimate encounters". That's a fairly good gist. I liked that gist. The problem was, it still hella otherised transsexuals. I honestly don't understand how people can put forward such a reasonable argument and still use the phrase "circus side show" with any degree of seriousness.

Fucking mass media.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eternal luna » Mon May 18, 2009 12:13 pm UTC

Shivahn wrote:Every time I see a female character on TV, or pick up a pencil to (try to) draw something, I feel a great longing. My throat and deep inside my chest will start to ache, kind of like a crush but far stronger and sadder. There IS an incredible urge to just be a girl.
Ohmygodyes. I still don't know what to do about this- it changes often enough that I wouldn't make permanent moves. Instead, I stay home at night, drawing moustaches on myself, stuffing the crotch of my jeans, and crying. Damn, do I feel pathetic.

A couple of friends and I organised a triple-A Day today (Awareness, Acceptance, Anti-Discrimination) and we had several people (that I know of) skip school because they hate queers. I hadn't expected this at all- smart people are generally more accepting, and it makes me sad that other people didn't see the problem with that. We weren't forcing participation or anything.

I need to say this to someone: the reason I'm particularly interested in taking Gender Studies is that I'm cherishing a nugget of hope that this will lead to feminist lesbians who might love me.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby michaelandjimi » Mon May 18, 2009 12:22 pm UTC

*hugs* for luna. You are not and never, ever will be pathetic.

I've actually seen a more polarising effect with regards to acceptance and intelligence. The proportion of accepting people does increase with intelligence, but the more intelligent people also tend to be more utterly convinced that they are correct. This is, of course, my own experience, ymmv.

And I'm terribly sad that I'm not taking Gender Studies yet, though perhaps not for quite the same reason.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Mon May 18, 2009 2:15 pm UTC

I feel like I understand those feelings Luna and Shivahn. I still feel jealous at times of other girls, but less and less now as I'm transitioning. I feel... right? Content? Not sure the word I'm looking for, but I feel better. I still have depression, and there are other things bringing me down, but... it's not an internal conflict which does it.

I really want to go back to university. I want to get a social worker, or a psychology degree. Or, I want some certificates, or something... I want to work at helping other Queer identified people in some way. It really feels like something I can do with my life. But, I have no idea how to do that. Does anyone know if it's really possible to go back to university after you've gotten some sort of degree already?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Mon May 18, 2009 2:52 pm UTC

Definitely. I don't know what the Canadian equivalent is, but there are "post-bacc" programs, as well as grad degrees/certificates geared toward working adults who already have a BA in something else entirely.

The place I went to for undergrad had a lot of coursework in counseling and teacher training, and the grad program was people of any age who would sometimes fill in their program with undergrad courses. Later, someone I was working with as a journalist was taking classes toward a master's in social work, and eventually graduated and got a job in that instead. I think it took her about five years (for what would be a two-year program full-time), but it is definitely done.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Mon May 18, 2009 7:47 pm UTC

eternal luna wrote:
Shivahn wrote:Every time I see a female character on TV, or pick up a pencil to (try to) draw something, I feel a great longing. My throat and deep inside my chest will start to ache, kind of like a crush but far stronger and sadder. There IS an incredible urge to just be a girl.
Ohmygodyes. I still don't know what to do about this- it changes often enough that I wouldn't make permanent moves. Instead, I stay home at night, drawing moustaches on myself, stuffing the crotch of my jeans, and crying. Damn, do I feel pathetic.


You're not pathetic. But I understand what you mean. It's just... messed up, that sometimes I'll sit at my desk crying over this. I'm really freaked out by my hair - the thought that I might lose that last bit of me that I can make feminine is crushing (sorry, I think this is going to come up fairly often for me...><). And I'm not even 23 yet, I shouldn't be worrying about it, much. But I can't really stop, since hair isn't just hair to me. And of course that's just some of the crying, I cry far more over just being a boy. Well, not that so much as NOT being a girl. I guess I also cry over the fact that I can't tell if I want to be a girl, or if I am a girl. Fortunately I don't get that sad all that often.

Yeah, last night I actually shaved my chest (and chin, completely instead of mostly like usual), but all it did was make me look like a little boy. That hurt.

I also feel like I'm too far gone to transition. Past the point of no return, so to speak. I've thought about it, very idly, and think it wouldn't work for me. My body's too masculine, I think. I'd forever see masculine hints in the structure and hate it. I also don't know what it's like to be a girl. It'd be somewhat like being entered into a decathalon in the third event without briefing. That's all idle thinking, though.

So I feel trapped halfway in between the sexes, where I want to be the other, but don't think I could make it there. I think I'm better off living like this, using whatever manner of escape I can (drawing, attempting lucid dreaming, RPGs, etc.). I don't know, I'm terrified of every path in front of me. I don't know if I like where any of them lead. And I don't know if perhaps there's another path that leads to good things that I just can't see.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby the-graverobber » Mon May 18, 2009 8:03 pm UTC

Hey, everyone. Long time no see.

*hugs and cookies to those who need them*

I just wanna thank y'all. The situation with V is...better. Maybe not where we were a year ago, but better than it's been.
I owe some of that to your advice. A lot of it, really.
So, honestly, thank you. It's nice to have my best friend back.
:)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Mon May 18, 2009 8:10 pm UTC

You are not too far in to transition. If you were, then I would have been, as I didn't start hormones until I was 23. Some (lucky) people know who they are and can articulate it to their parents at a very young age, and some of those lucky people are even luckier to be able to start to transition young. But that's not the norm. Not by a long shot. Some people don't transition until they're 20, or 30, or 40, or 50. If you were 70 years old, I'm sure you could transition if you really wanted to.

It's not about how you look now. I mean, it is, but it isn't. It's about feeling right in your skin. About being who you are inside. And if on the inside you wish and pray and beg and cry and envy and generally seem to want to be female, then you are. If you want to be both, then you are both. If you want to just be androgynous, and wear women's clothes but do nothing else to transition, then do that. If you think crossdressing in your home while acting masculine in public is what you want to do, then do that. If going to gay bars in drag is what you want to do, then do it.

There are so many different things in life. I know you're worried about being too manish. I'm worried about it every day. I assume people look at me and see a guy in a dress. I assume when someone hears my voice they're going to get angry. I'm afraid one day someone will beat me or worse, because they think I'm just a stupid man who's trying to trick them. But... it's who I am.

You are strong enough to be who you are meant to be. To paraphrase a TV show, if you don't believe in yourself, believe that we believe in you.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby aging.child » Mon May 18, 2009 8:24 pm UTC

Shivahn wrote:And the being somewhat angry at people that are acting gay, or toying around with it is the reason I'm hesitant to use certain labels, or even pronouns. I'm afraid I'll come off as doing that, or that maybe I AM doing that and have just convinced myself otherwise.

I would hardly describe your situation as "toying around with it". Experimentation is alright, pretending is not. And from the way you described your feelings, when you find a label you're comfortable with, you deserve to use it. You'll eventually sort things out, there's no rush.

eternal luna wrote:I need to say this to someone: the reason I'm particularly interested in taking Gender Studies is that I'm cherishing a nugget of hope that this will lead to feminist lesbians who might love me.

Hope of lesbians influences a lot of my decisions. Next on the list: take up the tuba. Not sure how that'll work out. Finding lesbian tuba players, that is. I'm quite confident in my future tuba abilities. :wink:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DJorgensen » Mon May 18, 2009 11:36 pm UTC

There are feminist lesbians who already love you luna! ^^;

@shivan : I grew up hiding under baseball caps because I was too afraid to show my face. It really wore my hair down to where I learned to grow out my bangs to cover it. By the time I was 19 in university the stress of living was making me lose clumps of hair too. It was really freaky. Then when I rolled my car, well I lost a shitton amount of hair - part of my scalp had to be stapled back on, and the top of my head was in ribbons from glass. So really hair is kinda one of my worry points too. But it's really come back in well and hormones have certainly helped with that~
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Carnildo » Tue May 19, 2009 3:49 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:You're not pathetic. But I understand what you mean. It's just... messed up, that sometimes I'll sit at my desk crying over this. I'm really freaked out by my hair - the thought that I might lose that last bit of me that I can make feminine is crushing (sorry, I think this is going to come up fairly often for me...><). And I'm not even 23 yet, I shouldn't be worrying about it, much. But I can't really stop, since hair isn't just hair to me.

If you decide to transition, the hormone treatments stop pattern baldness. If not, there are some very promising treatments in development that are likely to be approved in the next five to ten years. The one I've been watching is called "hair multiplication": it takes a small patch of hair from the back of your head, clones it into a much larger patch, and uses it for micro-graft transplantation.

I also feel like I'm too far gone to transition. Past the point of no return, so to speak. I've thought about it, very idly, and think it wouldn't work for me. My body's too masculine, I think. I'd forever see masculine hints in the structure and hate it.

You aren't. An ex-uncle of mine transitioned at age 40-someodd, and is now almost indistinguishable from her female-from-birth sister.


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