Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:31 pm UTC

Do mental hospitals even still exist? I thought Reagan ended them all.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:47 pm UTC

They are still around, but only for extremely serious cases or pop stars.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Weeks » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:18 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:They are still around, but only for extremely serious cases or pop stars.
One day, far in the future, you will learn the significance of the phrase "poor timing for a joke"
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:23 pm UTC

When a musician decides to release a music video that tries to make mental health issues or a mental hospital sexy, they can be made fun of at any time.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:38 pm UTC

Having skimmed over the video, that you consider it to be sexy is concerning.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:39 pm UTC

https://www.wbez.org/shows/16-shots/ep- ... 701ae1ea43
In a rare partial victory for police accountability, shootieMcgee Van Dyke found guilty of murder, but only 2nd degree charges. 2nd degree ranges from 20 years jail all the way down to probation only. He's also convicted of 16 charges of aggravated battery (shooting people), each carries 6-30 years (unclear if served consecutively). He was cleared of misconduct charges.

While the Van Dyke case has come to a close, three others still face charges of conspiring to cover up for Van Dyke. The trial of former detective David March, former officer Joseph Walsh and officer Thomas Gaffney is scheduled to start Nov. 26. March was CPD’s lead investigator, Walsh was Van Dyke’s partner the night of the shooting and Gaffney was one of eight other officers on the scene during the shooting

Last edited by sardia on Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:40 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:39 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Having skimmed over the video, that you consider it to be sexy is concerning.


I didn't say it was. I said it tried to.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:41 pm UTC

sardia wrote:https://www.wbez.org/shows/16-shots/ep-23-guilty-of-seconddegree-murder/9d172a25-dd25-46cb-b0f8-1b701ae1ea43
In a rare partial victory for police accountability, shootieMcgee Van Dyke found guilty of murder, but only 2nd degree charges. 2nd degree ranges from 20 years jail all the way down to probation only. He's also convicted of 16 charges of aggravated battery (shooting people), each carries 6-30 years (unclear if served consecutively). He was cleared of misconduct charges.

How do misconduct charges even work? Like, if he was cleared of it, doesn't that imply he acted as he should? How does that mesh with the other convictions?

CorruptUser wrote:
Zohar wrote:Having skimmed over the video, that you consider it to be sexy is concerning.


I didn't say it was. I said it tried to.

That you think the video tries to be sexy is equally concerning.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:52 pm UTC

I googled "does bebe rexha sexualize mental illness" and this was my first result.

I'm not the only one saying there are issues with the video. TBH, it's hardly the worst video ever made, and honestly I don't care too much. But hey, sex sells, and Beats by Dre headphones or whatever product placement isn't paying for anything other than something that gets the video and their product viewed.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:00 pm UTC

Is this the right place to rant about police incompetence?

I got scammed three weeks ago today and immediately filed a police report and was pretty sure I knew exactly what the police would need to do to at least try to catch the scammer: reverse lookup the number I was called from, visit the associated address, probably learn that it was a spoofed number; contact the company responsible for the payment method by which I was scammed, find the bank account they transferred the money into, get the contact info associated with that bank account, and go after whoever that is, provided it's even in America.

For three weeks I've been calling the office of the deputy who took my report trying to find out what progress has been made, being told that that deputy is out at the moment and nobody else can talk to me and to call back again later, and now today I finally found out that the case had been sent to a detective in another police department, got ahold of him, and so far he has... called the number I was scammed from and left a message. While on the phone with him, asking why he hadn't done any of the other obvious things I would try if I had police power to compel information out of businesses, he thought to look up the website of the company and see if there's like, a phone number or something that he can call. There isn't, but he pointed out that there's a place I can "report fraud", a place with a disclaimer that in circumstances like mine, the company has no responsibility to do anything about it, and a form that requires information I don't even have because the police are in custody of the evidence containing that information, evidence I can't get my hands on.

What the fuck. Do police just have no actual power to do anything to solve real crimes, or do they just not give a shit at all?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:04 pm UTC

Sorry to hear that. How much were you scammed out of? What was the story, if you want to tell?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:24 pm UTC

Short version is it was someone convincingly pretending to be the local sheriff (appropriately enough for this thread), who got to me via a trusted coworker, having me bring money supposedly for bail for failure to appear for a jury summons I never received, in person to the sheriff's station via a payment method I'd never heard of, which I wasn't aware enabled him to transfer the money over the phone until I got to the actual sheriff's station "with the money" and they told me I had been scammed. For $2200.

Longer version was posted in the mental health support thread on this forum back when it happened.

You'd think, you know, the fucking cops would be pissed that someone was impersonating them, and want to get this guy for vengeance even if they don't care about my money.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:32 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I googled "does bebe rexha sexualize mental illness" and this was my first result.

I'm not the only one saying there are issues with the video. TBH, it's hardly the worst video ever made, and honestly I don't care too much. But hey, sex sells, and Beats by Dre headphones or whatever product placement isn't paying for anything other than something that gets the video and their product viewed.

One person out of six randos they found online who complained about the video? Not saying this is a great video or anything, but I don't think you're in a majority opinion here regarding it trying to make it look sexy.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:38 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Short version is it was someone convincingly pretending to be the local sheriff (appropriately enough for this thread), who got to me via a trusted coworker, having me bring money supposedly for bail for failure to appear for a jury summons I never received, in person to the sheriff's station via a payment method I'd never heard of, which I wasn't aware enabled him to transfer the money over the phone until I got to the actual sheriff's station "with the money" and they told me I had been scammed. For $2200.

Longer version was posted in the mental health support thread on this forum back when it happened.

You'd think, you know, the fucking cops would be pissed that someone was impersonating them, and want to get this guy for vengeance even if they don't care about my money.

Police aren't qualified to run down tech crimes. Hell, most law enforcement isn't qualified. The ones who could help, are usually in the intelligence agencies, and they won't. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-i ... 2018-04-05
It's usually not worth it. However, try the consumer finance protection bureau. It may have been declawed by Trump's cronies, but it does still exist to help people like you.

Misconduct probably means he wasn't guilty of covering up the crime he was charged of. Unlike his fellow cop buddies who are being investigated for exactly that crime.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:00 pm UTC

Holy crap, that is one complicated scam. I've never heard of a "treasury voucher" before; I read your post on the other thread and had to google the stuff, and found this. I don't know if I would've fallen for this scam too, but I'm wondering if that is what all those "this is the police you will be arrested" voicemails were trying to do.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:32 pm UTC

Yep, that link sounds like exactly the same thing.

I still feel like an idiot for falling for it, because there's a half dozen places in the story where it seems super obvious in retrospect that it was a scam, but I was in a fog of stress and multiple of my usual defenses against scammers were bypassed by various means.

They didn't use the phrase "treasury vouchers" with me though, just "secure payment vouchers" or "money packs", from a company called Green Dot. Who are headquartered in the next county over, so you'd think, y'know, an officer could go talk to them in person, even if they seem to be completely unreachable by phone.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:32 pm UTC

From the police's perspective, they could (making up numbers here) spend 8 hours and have a 20% chance of making a single arrest, or they could spend 8 hours responding to domestics or walking the beat and such and making 5 arrests.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:35 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby ijuin » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:34 pm UTC

Scams operating under false color of authority are why we should all remember the following: ALL government agencies, whether Federal, State, or local in the USA, will, as required by law, deliver any legally-binding notifications on paper hardcopy. Any electronic communications such as phone calls or emails count as informal notices at best and will not stand in court. Thus, if someone tries to claim something outrageous over the phone (such as stating that you are in legal trouble), then you should demand to see it in writing.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:22 am UTC

True, but part of this scam involved sending me to the actual sheriff dept in person, where presumably there would be written paperwork to fill out. That’s a big part of what made it believable.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:49 am UTC

I think it's primarily an issue of concern for the police because when someone is impersonating them, it makes their job much more difficult.

I mean, imagine if people went around in fake cop cars to murder/rape/rob people driving at night. If you saw flashing lights, would you pull over and hope for the best, or just slam on the gas? Because (from I'm told) that's South Africa, and they just slam on the gas.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby WriteBrainedJR » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:03 am UTC

My first reaction was that it's political. DOJ's priorities are drug enforcement, immigration enforcement, and Islamic terrorism. That means if local law enforcement wants access to that sweet, sweet federal funding (and let's be honest, who doesn't?) , they damn well better prioritize drugs, immigration, and terrorism as well. Your case has no apparent connection to those things, and it won't make the news, so it's a low priority by default. Also, from a local political angle, you mentioned something about compelling information from companies. There are some elected sheriffs who are loath to compel anything from companies. Now that corporations are people and money is speech, companies are potential campaign donors. Such a sheriff would much rather protect a company and piss off an actual person, rather than protecting an actual person and risk pissing off a company that could donate a bunch of money to the opponent in the next election.

However, killing LEOs or impersonating them tends to get you moved up the police shit list in a hurry, so I'm not sure what's going on in this case.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:12 am UTC

These phone scams generally fall outside local jurisdiction no? That level of fraud is general a multi-state (if not multi-country) affair and would probably fall under federal jusrisdiction. Which unfortunately probably means getting a direct update is highly unlikely barring a huge catch by the feds that makes the news.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:16 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Is this the right place to rant about police incompetence?

I got scammed three weeks ago today and immediately filed a police report and was pretty sure I knew exactly what the police would need to do to at least try to catch the scammer: reverse lookup the number I was called from, visit the associated address, probably learn that it was a spoofed number; contact the company responsible for the payment method by which I was scammed, find the bank account they transferred the money into, get the contact info associated with that bank account, and go after whoever that is, provided it's even in America.

For three weeks I've been calling the office of the deputy who took my report trying to find out what progress has been made, being told that that deputy is out at the moment and nobody else can talk to me and to call back again later, and now today I finally found out that the case had been sent to a detective in another police department, got ahold of him, and so far he has... called the number I was scammed from and left a message. While on the phone with him, asking why he hadn't done any of the other obvious things I would try if I had police power to compel information out of businesses, he thought to look up the website of the company and see if there's like, a phone number or something that he can call. There isn't, but he pointed out that there's a place I can "report fraud", a place with a disclaimer that in circumstances like mine, the company has no responsibility to do anything about it, and a form that requires information I don't even have because the police are in custody of the evidence containing that information, evidence I can't get my hands on.

What the fuck. Do police just have no actual power to do anything to solve real crimes, or do they just not give a shit at all?


Mostly the latter. They *can* do quite a lot, but have a lot of latitude in choosing which crimes to pursue, and have no obligation to pursue any crime in particular. Which means their value can vary widely, all the way down to "fuck all". Financial or computer crimes often require expertise which the police do not have, or are not very interested in pursuing.

I would suggest, since the scam was not in cash, immediately contacting your bank or credit card company regarding fraud/chargeback as rapidly as possible. Unlike the police, these institutions do care about fraud, and will generally be a lot more responsive. If you're fast enough, they may be able to reverse the charge.



I once had my shop closed for a weekend because my manager believed a scammer calling pretending to be the power company. Had to get paid now, or the power would get turned off. She didn't have credit card access, and freaked out trying to find a way to give them money, finally deciding to close the store down to avoid the "embarrassment" of the power being turned off. If she'd had access to more than petty cash, she'd have just given them whatever. I was....very unhappy. Cops don't give a crap, though, despite it fucking over people's lives.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:36 pm UTC

One thing it would be so valuable to teach people to avoid these kinds of scams is to always call the person back. Not on the number they give but from Googling. So if they claim they are from the power company then Google the power company's number and go call it. If it's a legitimate issue then whoever you get to speak to will have a record of it.

There's sooo much useful stuff schools could be teaching rather than rote learning the dates of historical events or whatever...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:07 pm UTC

elasto wrote:One thing it would be so valuable to teach people to avoid these kinds of scams is to always call the person back. Not on the number they give but from Googling. So if they claim they are from the power company then Google the power company's number and go call it. If it's a legitimate issue then whoever you get to speak to will have a record of it.

There's sooo much useful stuff schools could be teaching rather than rote learning the dates of historical events or whatever...
this doesn't always work. I almost missed a bill because I tried the call back method.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby elasto » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:10 pm UTC

sardia wrote:this doesn't always work. I almost missed a bill because I tried the call back method.

Can you explain further? All my important bills I have set to Direct Debit.

(Obviously that sets one up for the reverse problem: Where a legitimate company overbills you by mistake; But you should always be able to claim that back plus any additional expenses entailed.)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:22 pm UTC

When a number you don't recognize calls, don't say anything for the first five seconds. If you hear absolute silence (not even breathing), it's either a robo-caller or a scammer. Keep silent. Sometimes, they'll automatically take you off their lists if they get nothing back.

Requesting physical documentation for everything is a good approach (suggested by someone up thread). Never, ever pay a bill you're informed of only over the phone. Whenever someone calls me to tell me I owe something, I tell them to send me an invoice. *Then* I pay it. No exceptions.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Zohar » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:33 pm UTC

I've heard robocalls sometimes record you saying "Yes" (as in "Yes who is this?") to use later as proof of confirmation of whatever they're trying to charge you. May be a hoax but I've started answering with "Hello" instead.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:12 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Can you explain further? All my important bills I have set to Direct Debit.

(Obviously that sets one up for the reverse problem: Where a legitimate company overbills you by mistake; But you should always be able to claim that back plus any additional expenses entailed.)

My autopay on my comcast lapsed for some reason, and comcast sent an automated message stating that I owed a lot of money. Calling back led to one hand not knowing what the other was doing. I ended up doublechecking, and paid it before I got dinged on my credit score.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Grop » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:31 pm UTC

I only take calls from numbers I know. I can afford that because I am not looking for a job or doing anything complicated. If they don't leave a message, they are probably a spambot. And if they don't and try more than once, I google for them and generally blacklist them.

(I don't mean to suggest that everyone can do that, of course depending on your situation you may have to take every incoming calls).

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby freezeblade » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:57 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I've heard robocalls sometimes record you saying "Yes" (as in "Yes who is this?") to use later as proof of confirmation of whatever they're trying to charge you. May be a hoax but I've started answering with "Hello" instead.


I've heard the same, although I'm not sure how true it is. I have taken to saying "$name speaking" when I pick up the phone from unknown numbers.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Sableagle » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:12 pm UTC

My defence against that was to let the answerphone take it, and not have my own voice on the answerphone message.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:38 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:
Zohar wrote:I've heard robocalls sometimes record you saying "Yes" (as in "Yes who is this?") to use later as proof of confirmation of whatever they're trying to charge you. May be a hoax but I've started answering with "Hello" instead.


I've heard the same, although I'm not sure how true it is. I have taken to saying "$name speaking" when I pick up the phone from unknown numbers.
I'm extremely skeptical, because the only place I can imagine audio confirmation being relevant is in court -- and the *last* place any scammer wants to be is in court.

That being said, I can't imagine it hurts?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:56 pm UTC

I feel like I've derailed this thread into talking about scams, but since we are already, I'll note that I did say I normally never answer any calls, sending everything to voicemail, and this scammer only got through to me because he got a coworker to transfer him to me on my business line.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:15 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I feel like I've derailed this thread into talking about scams, but since we are already, I'll note that I did say I normally never answer any calls, sending everything to voicemail, and this scammer only got through to me because he got a coworker to transfer him to me on my business line.


Well, the purported role of police is to protect the citizenry from theft, yeah? Seems reasonable enough to say that it ought to fall under their purview.

It is harder to track down fraud than it is to drive around and hassle anyone who looks sketchy, though. So, mostly it doesn't happen. Anyways, do suggest you go through bank or credit card for a chargeback. Talking about how to avoid it next time is all well and good, but doesn't help a great deal now.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:26 pm UTC

wasn't through a chargebackable payment method. thought I was delivering payment in person to the real sheriff's dept and didn't even realize it was something that could be transferred electronically. facilitating company has a fraud report mechanism but they say they're not responsible for giving you your money back and they require information that only the actual police have now in their evidence locker that i'm waiting on to make a futile attempt at reporting to them.

seriously though FUCKING COPS COULD MAKE A HANDFUL OF PHONECALLS and get a huge distance to sorting this out. could have made them weeks ago. money's gone by now i'm sure because they dragged their fucking feet on this but i still want the fucker caught.

SIMPLE FUCKING PROCESS:

1) call judge, ask for a warrant to you can
2) call payment processor, ask for bank acct number money was sent to, so you can
3) call judge, ask for a warrant so you can
4) call bank, ask for identity of person who owns that account, so you can
5) call judge, ask for a warrant so you can
6) ARREST THAT MOTHERFUCKER

jesus fucking christ. it's five fucking phone calls and then you send a patrol car out. maybe it gets harder after that, but this shit could have been done SAME DAY and now it's almost a month later and they're not even to step 1. WHAT THE FUCK.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:09 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:...
6) ARREST THAT MOTHERFUCKER

Except by that time, your money (plus that of 500+ other unfortunates) has been transferred via Brazil, Argentina, Estonia, Nigeria (twice), Russia, Georgia (the other one) and Nevis (not in that order) and the scammer's capo is living it up in the Bahamas. Not that I'm hinting the this might be, like, organized crime.

Seriously, like in most jobs, the priorities of the police are set by their review. They can spend 2000 hours trying to arrest the low level moron on the phone and not even get your money back, with little or no hope of catching the big boss, but that looks bad on the year-end review. It's much more pay-justifying to bust 2000 kids for tagging at an hour per pop.
In all fairness...

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Pfhorrest
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:05 am UTC

the bank account is going to be held in the name of the phone money?

also, while I get your line of reasoning, we're not talking 2000 hours of sleuthing work. we're talking a clear electronic paper trail to a person, that it takes a few phone calls and a short drive to follow. I would do it myself on my lunch break myself except I'm not a cop so I get stopped at step 1: call a judge for a warrant.
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CorruptUser
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:32 am UTC

I honestly think it would take the police 8 hours tops to exhaust the trail for Pforrest's case, not 2000. I dont think arresting 8 taggers in that time is a better use of public funds, when a tagger does what, cost $50 to scrub off the paint?

Chen
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:38 am UTC

I think you get stuck at step 2 when Green Dot either can’t or doesn’t give the access. The whole reason to use Green Dot cards (or any type of prepaid card) is because they’re basically cash and highly difficult to trace. You can load the money onto another prepaid card once the number is given without needing to interact with a bank account. They’re the more sophisticated version of telling people to go pay their “fine” off by buying itunes gift cards (which yes does happen for some of these scams).


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