Police misbehavior thread

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sardia
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:06 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
speising wrote:that is probably the justification for his disability?


If he forgets that rapidly, how'd he remember to file paperwork for it?

You do realize the cop is lying through his teeth right? We're on the internet, and it's hard to tell sometimes.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:11 am UTC

ObsessoMom wrote:Good News and Bad News:

The Bad News first: Sgt. Valerie Deant and her fellow National Guard soldiers went to a shooting range, and found that mug shots of people arrested by the North Miami Beach Police--INCLUDING DEANT'S OWN BROTHER--were being used for target practice by local police snipers.
Spoiler:
Family Outraged After North Miami Beach Police Use Mug Shots as Shooting Targets

[snip]

What the soldiers discovered when they entered the range made them angry: mug shots of African American men apparently used as targets by North Miami Beach Police snipers, who had used the range before the guardsmen.

Even more startling for Deant, one of the images was her brother. It was Woody Deant’s mug shot that taken 15 years ago, after he was arrested in connection to a drag race in 2000 that left two people dead. His mug shot was among the pictures of five minorities used as targets by North Miami Beach police, all of them riddled by bullets.

“I was like 'why is my brother being used for target practice?'" Deant asked.

[snip]

She immediately called her brother, Woody Deant, who was 18 years old when the picture was taken.

“The picture actually has like bullet holes,” Woody Deant said. “One in my forehead and one in my eye. …I was speechless," he added.

[snip]

North Miami Beach Police Chief J. Scott Dennis admitted that his officers could have used better judgment, but denies any racial profiling.

He noted that the sniper team includes minority officers. Dennis defended the department’s use of actual photographs and says the technique is widely used and the pictures are vital for facial recognition drills. But the Deant family questions why officers were firing targets with images of real people, in this case African-Americans, especially at a time when relations between minority communities and law enforcement are so tense.

[snip]

Dennis said the police department uses an array of pictures including that of whites, and Hispanic males. What concerns his police department, he said, is that the picture was from someone that happened to be arrested by his agency.

“That individual would be someone that was on the streets of North Miami Beach,” Dennis said.

Woody Deant, who did four years in prison after his 2000 arrest, expressed outrage.

“Now I’m being used as a target?” said Woody Deant. “I’m not even living that life according to how they portrayed me as. I’m a father. I’m a husband. I’m a career man. I work 9-to-5.”

The Deants contacted Attorney Andell Brown. He said he finds the use of human images for target practice extremely disturbing.

“This can create a very dangerous situation,” Brown said. “And it has been ingrained in your subconscious what does that mean when someone [police] comes across Woody or another person on the street and their decision-making process on using deadly force or not.”

The Deants agree.

“Automatically in his [police officer] mind he’s going to think target, target, target…,” Woody Deant said.


And now the Good News (which of course doesn't completely offset the Bad News, but it warmed my heart anyway): In response to the above story, dozens of mostly white Lutheran ministers (and some clergypeople from other religions) sent pictures of themselves to the North Miami Beach police department, for use as targets instead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... meinstead/

How can public employees be so stupid.
Who The Hell is running that BullShit Outfit??

Is it the same people that do the Violent Video Games?
Of course, it is.

The Middle Management is different.
The Idea Men are The Same for both outfits.

The Goal is The Same.
Dehumanization of The Shooter.

Some trainees may someday have a glimmer of innocence lost.
The Guilty are being trained and paid to be Guilty of Murder.

I know you know.
Do they know?

These people are being told they are Defending themselves.
How fucked up is That? They are supposed to defend us!

Did I ever tell you about Target Practice Class 2014?

A human form was the Target.
I had too be able to keep shooting and Not miss the Target while a Big ole' Man was Pacing and Yelling at me.

And; That was at the Very Beginning of the series of classes.
If a trainee can't pass that test, no more training is given.

Step by step we are led from shooting paper plates and popping Targets,
To shooting other living human beings that are unknown to us, as easily.

Spoiler:
Yes. Guns are dangerous.
Guns also improve people manners.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:20 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
speising wrote:that is probably the justification for his disability?


If he forgets that rapidly, how'd he remember to file paperwork for it?

You do realize the cop is lying through his teeth right? We're on the internet, and it's hard to tell sometimes.


Sorry, sarcasm.

I'd just find it amusing to deny his claim based on such grounds.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:27 am UTC

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-disappeared-chicago-police-detain-americans-at-abuse-laden-black-site/ar-BBhVkfd?ocid=UP97DHP

Interesting. MSN, so a fairly major outlet, not sure if it's legit or not, but seems like an interesting topic all the same.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:50 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-disappeared-chicago-police-detain-americans-at-abuse-laden-black-site/ar-BBhVkfd?ocid=UP97DHP

Interesting. MSN, so a fairly major outlet, not sure if it's legit or not, but seems like an interesting topic all the same.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:57 pm UTC

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015 ... eport.html
I couldn't actually finish the report since I was pretty disgusted halfway through reading it, so I'll just post the bolded points.
Police focus was on revenue, not law enforcement
The Justice Department begins not with the use of force or crime fighting, but with what it says is Ferguson's policing strategy built around writing tickets, and assessing fines and fees, to feed the city budget. The resulting practices, it says, violates people's rights, and is racially discriminatory.
Abuse of Police Power Was Routine
The Justice Department also found that officers regularly exceed their authority and mistreat people.
The Municipal Court Has Contributed to the Problem
Ferguson's Municipal Court, which is actually run by the chief of police, is part of the city's revenue-raising machinery, the report found, with court officials routinely levying excessive fines and fees, and violating people's rights.
Racially Discriminatory Policing Was the Norm
Black people are two-thirds of Ferguson's population, but from 2012 to 2014, they accounted for 85 percent of police traffic stops, 90 percent of citations issued, and 93 percent of arrests. The Municipal Court also treats blacks more harshly, according to the Justice Department's findings.
Community Relations Had Been Deteriorating for Years
Mistrust of the police long predated the shooting of Michael Brown last summer, which caused it to boil over, but city leaders refuse to acknowledge it.
Racist Comments by Police and Court Officials
Black people in Ferguson regularly report racial epithets being used against them by police officers, but a search of city e-mail accounts by the Justice Department also showed many racist remarks casually traded by police supervisors and court officials.

In summary, all the cops were not only racist, but also had an insatiable thirst for money which drove them to see their (mostly black) citizens under their protection as pinatas to beat for money. Beat em up, issue em a ticket, and come back next week for more.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:46 am UTC

sardia wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/04/us/ferguson-police-justice-department-report.html
I couldn't actually finish the report since I was pretty disgusted halfway through reading it, so I'll just post the bolded points.
Police focus was on revenue, not law enforcement
The Justice Department begins not with the use of force or crime fighting, but with what it says is Ferguson's policing strategy built around writing tickets, and assessing fines and fees, to feed the city budget. The resulting practices, it says, violates people's rights, and is racially discriminatory.
Abuse of Police Power Was Routine
The Justice Department also found that officers regularly exceed their authority and mistreat people.
The Municipal Court Has Contributed to the Problem
Ferguson's Municipal Court, which is actually run by the chief of police, is part of the city's revenue-raising machinery, the report found, with court officials routinely levying excessive fines and fees, and violating people's rights.
Racially Discriminatory Policing Was the Norm
Black people are two-thirds of Ferguson's population, but from 2012 to 2014, they accounted for 85 percent of police traffic stops, 90 percent of citations issued, and 93 percent of arrests. The Municipal Court also treats blacks more harshly, according to the Justice Department's findings.
Community Relations Had Been Deteriorating for Years
Mistrust of the police long predated the shooting of Michael Brown last summer, which caused it to boil over, but city leaders refuse to acknowledge it.
Racist Comments by Police and Court Officials
Black people in Ferguson regularly report racial epithets being used against them by police officers, but a search of city e-mail accounts by the Justice Department also showed many racist remarks casually traded by police supervisors and court officials.

In summary, all the cops were not only racist, but also had an insatiable thirst for money which drove them to see their (mostly black) citizens under their protection as pinatas to beat for money. Beat em up, issue em a ticket, and come back next week for more.

This is a nation in dire need of Help.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:57 am UTC

addams wrote:
sardia wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/04/us/ferguson-police-justice-department-report.html
I couldn't actually finish the report since I was pretty disgusted halfway through reading it, so I'll just post the bolded points.
Police focus was on revenue, not law enforcement
The Justice Department begins not with the use of force or crime fighting, but with what it says is Ferguson's policing strategy built around writing tickets, and assessing fines and fees, to feed the city budget. The resulting practices, it says, violates people's rights, and is racially discriminatory.
Abuse of Police Power Was Routine
The Justice Department also found that officers regularly exceed their authority and mistreat people.
The Municipal Court Has Contributed to the Problem
Ferguson's Municipal Court, which is actually run by the chief of police, is part of the city's revenue-raising machinery, the report found, with court officials routinely levying excessive fines and fees, and violating people's rights.
Racially Discriminatory Policing Was the Norm
Black people are two-thirds of Ferguson's population, but from 2012 to 2014, they accounted for 85 percent of police traffic stops, 90 percent of citations issued, and 93 percent of arrests. The Municipal Court also treats blacks more harshly, according to the Justice Department's findings.
Community Relations Had Been Deteriorating for Years
Mistrust of the police long predated the shooting of Michael Brown last summer, which caused it to boil over, but city leaders refuse to acknowledge it.
Racist Comments by Police and Court Officials
Black people in Ferguson regularly report racial epithets being used against them by police officers, but a search of city e-mail accounts by the Justice Department also showed many racist remarks casually traded by police supervisors and court officials.

In summary, all the cops were not only racist, but also had an insatiable thirst for money which drove them to see their (mostly black) citizens under their protection as pinatas to beat for money. Beat em up, issue em a ticket, and come back next week for more.

This is a nation in dire need of Help.


You mean, the city and county is in dire need of help. (IIRC, a lot of what they found was also true across St. Louis county in general. It wasn't just city specific)

The "nation", aka: the Attorney General and the FBI, were the ones who conducted the investigation and brought these issues to light.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:13 am UTC

It's not like Ferguson is the only city with this sort of problem. There are probably thousands of police departments that would turn up similar problems if they were investigated as thoroughly as Ferguson's was.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby rath358 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:44 am UTC


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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:58 am UTC

There is a solution: charge a $500/year fee for being poor to discourage people from choosing poverty.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:58 am UTC

rath358 wrote:http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor
Unfortunately common...

Is it unfair of me to disparage Conservatives/Republicans for pushing us towards these "user" fees? The reason we have these fees in the first place is because we don't think it's ok to tax for needed services.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:06 am UTC

sardia wrote:
rath358 wrote:http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor
Unfortunately common...

Is it unfair of me to disparage Conservatives/Republicans for pushing us towards these "user" fees? The reason we have these fees in the first place is because we don't think it's ok to tax for needed services.

Nope, not unfair at all.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:42 am UTC

rath358 wrote:http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor
Unfortunately common...

That is about the Most depressing thing I have ever read;
Sense, I gave up Kafka.

Is there One Thing that I can do to change that Policy?

Spoiler:
The TEA Baggers have well organized e-mail and write your Congressman.
The poor CongressPeople.

I attended a meeting of the TEA Baggers.
There was Open talk of Lynching my Congressman.

They exist in Cyber Space.
They exist in Meat Space.

They are a Powerful Voice.

The poor, the meek, the uneducated, the rough around the edges....
How are they ever going to get Rounded?

What a mess.
Can that be True?

I was in Court a while ago.
I heard the Judge say, "If you cannot afford an attorney; One will be appointed to you."

Still...It seems in a Civil Society, all defense attorneys and all prosecuting attorneys work for and are paid by The State.
It is in the Best Interest of The State and each one of her Citizens that Justice is respected and served. Even-handedly.

Is that True? Is that article True?
Does the US oppress her poor?

I know the poor are oppressed by poverty.
I did not know the US oppresses her poor.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sevenperforce » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:28 am UTC

"Keep, distant lands, your honest wage!" cries he
With swollen lips. "Lend me your tired, your poor,
Impov'rished millions clamoring with pleas,
They'll feed the fires of my gilded forge
Their bones, the earth beneath my bloated feet
Sell me these, the hopeful, grasping naive,
Their sweat to slake the wolfish coffer's thirst."

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:31 am UTC

Thesh wrote:There is a solution: charge a $500/year fee for being poor to discourage people from choosing poverty.

Why? Ferguson PD was already doing that.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:38 pm UTC

sevenperforce wrote:"Keep, distant lands, your honest wage!" cries he
With swollen lips. "Lend me your tired, your poor,
Impov'rished millions clamoring with pleas,
They'll feed the fires of my gilded forge
Their bones, the earth beneath my bloated feet
Sell me these, the hopeful, grasping naive,
Their sweat to slake the wolfish coffer's thirst."

To be fair, the cops aren't guilding anything in gold. These funds are being diverted to city coffers instead of paying for police spending. This implies that Ferguson can't or won't raise revenue through taxes. Really racism is the icing on this shit filled donut. Again, disparaging remark to conservative policies. This is what happens when you demand taxes come from the poor instead of the rich. The money had to come from somewhere, racism made it easy to decide.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sevenperforce » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:09 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
sevenperforce wrote:"Keep, distant lands, your honest wage!" cries he
With swollen lips. "Lend me your tired, your poor,
Impov'rished millions clamoring with pleas,
They'll feed the fires of my gilded forge
Their bones, the earth beneath my bloated feet
Sell me these, the hopeful, grasping naive,
Their sweat to slake the wolfish coffer's thirst."

To be fair, the cops aren't guilding anything in gold. These funds are being diverted to city coffers instead of paying for police spending. This implies that Ferguson can't or won't raise revenue through taxes. Really racism is the icing on this shit filled donut. Again, disparaging remark to conservative policies. This is what happens when you demand taxes come from the poor instead of the rich. The money had to come from somewhere, racism made it easy to decide.

Right. This Colossus was conservative policy in general, not the police department of one city.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:12 pm UTC

rath358 wrote:http://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fees-punish-the-poor
Unfortunately common...


From that article -

In at least 43 states and the District of Columbia, defendants can be billed for a public defender.
In at least 41 states, inmates can be charged room and board for jail and prison stays.
In at least 44 states, offenders can get billed for their own probation and parole supervision.
And in all states except Hawaii, and the District of Columbia, there's a fee for the electronic monitoring devices defendants and offenders are ordered to wear.


HOLY FUCK THAT IS CORRUPT.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby leady » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:48 pm UTC

churlish & mean yes - but why corrupt? (maybe in application?)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:52 pm UTC

That's not that big of a problem. Its a bad idea, but its not what makes it bad. It's jailing them for failing to pay the fees/fines and it generating even more fines. Either the punishment should change or it should be paid for by taxes.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby leady » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:08 pm UTC

that I can agree with - the UK government actually bills exonerated prisoners too on occasion for board and lodging (something so horribly audaciously wrong that I can't help but laugh when I see it)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:37 pm UTC

leady wrote:that I can agree with - the UK government actually bills exonerated prisoners too on occasion for board and lodging (something so horribly audaciously wrong that I can't help but laugh when I see it)


But that's no problem...they'll get their $100,000 just as soon as they pay my $5,000,000 judgement.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:13 am UTC

Remember the Oakley, Michigan police department? The one that was thought to be selling all the volunteer positions?

On March 4, they finally surrendered and turned over at least a partial list of the people who "donated" and/or "volunteered". (Not clear yet whether you could really buy a position.) They've rested legally for more than two years, even ignoring at least one court order, to avoid turning it over.

Of course, that doesn't mean 100% surrendered; the bottom half of each application is redacted...leaving only the name exposed on each. So the legal struggle continues, "...until the village fully complies..."

"The reservist application list includes names of individuals who share the same name as attorneys, CEOs, CPAs, builders, doctors, photographers, surgeons, an NFL football player and others."

They did get polices and procedures that are on the document (spoilered).

Spoiler:
It lists qualifications of a minimum age of 21, U.S. citizenship, a high school diploma or GED, a valid Michigan's operator's license, and no felony convictions or domestic violence convictions.

Reservists must also pass a background check, physical check and psychological check. Reservists are subject to pre-appointment written test, drug screening, background investigation, and more, the document states.

Chosen candidates shall serve a minimum 144-day orientation period in which a reserve officer must spend a minimum of eight, eight-hour shifts, the policies document states.

"Reserve Officers have no police authority and may only take enforcement action when they are working in conjunction with and are under the direct on-site supervision of a police officer of this department," the document states.

Before being assigned with a police officer, reserve officers must successfully meet guidelines for proficiency in areas including vehicle operations (if applicable), weapons training (if applicable), defense tactics/use of force, fires aid/CPR, hazardous materials training, blood-borne pathogens, employee right to know, department policy and procedure tests.

The document states "exceptions to or modifications of this schedule may be made only at the discretion of the chief" under several of the guideline items.

The policies and procedures also state that reserve officers "shall treat all business of the department as confidential" and "are not authorized to disseminate information maintained, developed or controlled by the department or to any person not employed with the department."

The document states that reservists must obtain a concealed pistol license and may only carry weapons under the authority of the department when assigned on-duty and when working in conjunction with a police officer of the department.

Issued firearms shall be stored unloaded in "the designated location at the department" when reserve officers are not on duty.

"Reserve officers shall not represent themselves as police officers while off duty," the document states, and "reserve officers shall not display the departmental identification card or badge while off duty, except when absolutely necessary."
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:51 pm UTC

Looking through those articles, is there actually any problem with these "reservists"? I haven't seen any articles about abuse of power (or really any use of power) by them. It seems they help out volunteer at town services (an article mentions serving food at some event) and that's about it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:48 am UTC

I don't see a problem with them, yet.
So far they act as well or better than the The Paid Police.

There was that beating up of a guy for pissing on their new car.
The Real Police would have Shot him.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:46 pm UTC

It's primarily the scent of corruption. Which is being investigated by the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and the state attorney general.

Of course, there's also a scent of politics since this apparently started when the chief and his officers clamped down on the local business owners, and they retaliated.

The original concerns with the program involved several things: Pay to play, the indication that reservist membership was to be had for $1200, giving the happy "donor" the right to call himself an officer with some of the attendant perks that officers get (access to police information sources, "professional" courtesy also known as the blue wall). That, for a just little more, the "donor" could get an actual official badge to carry, a uniform, and the right to carry a gun absolutely anywhere in Michigan; the authority that goes with the badge. That the chief also provided most of them with bulletproof vests.

The concern that there were more than 100 of these reservist officers...in a town of 300 people.

The concern that the police chief was apparently using the program to fund his department of 12, when his predecessor did the job just fine by himself (it is a town of 300 people); and that, of course, raised the concern that the standard for membership was a bit low.

The concern that many of these reservists were well-heeled folks that did not live in Oakley; including lawyers, doctors, and a couple of football players from other communities.

The fact that the program was secret; that it apparently was only open to "desirables", with no indication of what desirable meant (beyond having money of course).

Want to play cop? Oakley, MI police chief will sell you a badge and a gun permit
Oakley residents level complaints about policing to Board of Trustees
Cop Fights to Keep His Secret Mercenary Army
Media lawyer fights to keep Oakley police names secret
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:53 am UTC

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/so ... &referrer=

Officer charged with murder after shooting suspect in the back and placing his taser next to their body saying they took it.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:37 am UTC

Thesh wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-is-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=2&referrer=

Officer charged with murder after shooting suspect in the back and placing his taser next to their body saying they took it.

Well, he *did* have a broken tail light, so...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:40 am UTC

speising wrote:
Thesh wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/us/south-carolina-officer-is-charged-with-murder-in-black-mans-death.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=2&referrer=

Officer charged with murder after shooting suspect in the back and placing his taser next to their body saying they took it.

Well, he *did* have a broken tail light, so...

over and over...
The People want public cameras.

over and over...
The guy with the Cell Phone is The Hero.

We know Cell Phones and Cameras are taken from people that have Police contact.
We also know it is our Responsibility and Duty to take video clips of what we see in the World.

We must also Shoulder the Burden of having our every move recorded.

Dear Citizens; Record Everything!
We know The Men in Blue Murder.

so be careful.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:08 pm UTC

The problem with police body can is the police control what it sees. The cop could have shoot him and then broke his camera. The cellphone video was recorded without the cops knowledge. A better solution is to have the surveillance state apparatus turned onto the cops, not given to the cops

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby leady » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:17 pm UTC

I used to be against the CCTV state in the UK, until I realised that it doesn't catch criminals but rather exonerates the innocent.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:27 pm UTC

sardia wrote:The problem with police body can is the police control what it sees. The cop could have shoot him and then broke his camera. The cellphone video was recorded without the cops knowledge. A better solution is to have the surveillance state apparatus turned onto the cops, not given to the cops


But who will maintain those cameras?

If it is the Police Officer's official duty to wear Body Cameras (including appropriate punishment if it "malfunctions"), then the issues will be solved. At very least, in the case where the cop shoots him then "breaks" the camera, then the Cop will be penalized for a mulfunctioning camera.

I was looking up some of the issues with Body Cameras, one thing is reliability... reliability of storage and the reliability of the battery. Those technical issues can be solved (redundant flash drives, bigger batteries, and daily maintenance / reporting that tests the reliability). While technology can reduce the odds of a malfunction... only humans can perform the maintenance tasks. (ie: turn on the camera and test it every week. AND report that the camera actually lasts the whole time on the job, reporting battery indications at the end of the day, etc. etc.)

You see, we can require Police Officers to report these sorts of things. And when the camera breaks at that "inopportune" time, we will be able to look at a history of good maintenance and really ask: "Really, the camera worked for 3 years straight until the day you decided to shoot that guy??"

I don't think body cameras are as "easy" of a solution as people make them out to be. But they are clearly the best idea I've seen so far. Implementation details (such as reporting or maintenance tasks) will cause a lot of issues as body cameras are the knee-jerk reaction to all of these racial cases. I assure you, there will be problems. But once all the systems are worked out (including the maintenance responsibilities of the police officers), I think we'd definitely move towards the right direction.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:39 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:You see, we can require Police Officers to report these sorts of things. And when the camera breaks at that "inopportune" time, we will be able to look at a history of good maintenance and really ask: "Really, the camera worked for 3 years straight until the day you decided to shoot that guy??"

You can say that all you want, it won't result in a conviction, or even an indictment. not against a white police officer, where the prosecution has to be held at gun point to even consider it. All you get is some protests on the streets, and we have that already, see how much good they do.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:44 pm UTC

speising wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:You see, we can require Police Officers to report these sorts of things. And when the camera breaks at that "inopportune" time, we will be able to look at a history of good maintenance and really ask: "Really, the camera worked for 3 years straight until the day you decided to shoot that guy??"

You can say that all you want, it won't result in a conviction, or even an indictment. not against a white police officer, where the prosecution has to be held at gun point to even consider it. All you get is some protests on the streets, and we have that already, see how much good they do.


So what? We do nothing about it?

I think we both can clearly see that body cameras improve the situation. Frankly, if we can get "Police Officer failed to record situation" as a charge (similar to "failure to display drivers license"), then the situation is significantly better. Maybe it won't result in Police Officers getting murder charges, but I bet you that they will stop a lot of Police Officers from shooting people in the back.

The solution is again, officers should be responsible for wearing their body cameras, and ensuring the proper maintenance of the devices. Body cameras without the 2nd half will get abused in obvious ways.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:07 pm UTC

they can always fudge it so that their victim's attack damaged the camera. the only solution I see would be live streaming, but I'm not sure that's technically feasible.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby leady » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:08 pm UTC

A more interesting question on this case is whether once the forensics came out with multiple entry wounds to the back whether he would have been charged regardless (that alone I assume would bury the cops story)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Chen » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:17 pm UTC

speising wrote:they can always fudge it so that their victim's attack damaged the camera. the only solution I see would be live streaming, but I'm not sure that's technically feasible.


It's still going to take effort to completely destroy the camera and the storage. Doing so after the fact just adds more chances for the corrupt cop to be caught as well, so this is still an improvement. I don't think anyone is saying it's suddenly going to stop unwarranted police shootings, but it should provide more and more disincentive to shoot, if the situation is not life or death. You know, like not shooting someone in the back you barely had a scuffle with...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

speising wrote:they can always fudge it so that their victim's attack damaged the camera. the only solution I see would be live streaming, but I'm not sure that's technically feasible.


Then maybe live stream to the officer's vehicle through short-wave radio or something. The vehicle probably has room for larger hard drives anyway. I don't think vehicle cameras (and vehicle recorded video) have had much issues, have they?

In any case, there are a ton of technical solutions. I think the discussion needs to be had where we determine whats best. And once we do that, we can go report to our city counsel and start pushing for these cameras (and the correct implementation of them as well)
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:23 pm UTC

leady wrote:A more interesting question on this case is whether once the forensics came out with multiple entry wounds to the back whether he would have been charged regardless (that alone I assume would bury the cops story)

It does not. Forensic teams rarely rat out cops. They all work together(prosecutors, cops, crime scene investigators), remember?*

*Speculation.

"But who will maintain those cameras? "
Someone not connected to policing? Besides, my idea isn't any worse than giving the cameras to the cops. At worst, the cops control it just as much as body cams. Mine just has a better best case scenario.
Real life example, Chicago cop in chinatown committed a crime, and tried to destroy the camera recording the incident when he realized he was recorded. Thankfully, the hard drives were out of police control, and the cop was charged. Unless you strong internal controls, the cops would just delete the offending footage. And if they had strong internal controls, you wouldn't have all these rogue cops.
Last edited by sardia on Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:29 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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