Police misbehavior thread

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:54 pm UTC

Dunno if any of the various Baltimore problems are national in scope yet, but the "protesting"(read, rioting) has gotten a bit nuts, and we've escalated to this: http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/ ... -83396244/

The fuse for this whole mess was the Freddie Grey police brutality incident(resulted in his death). So, yknow, maybe now isn't a good time to visit Baltimore.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:47 pm UTC

Is there evidence of that which doesn't come directly from the police?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:02 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Is there evidence of that which doesn't come directly from the police?


The particular accusation, not that I'm aware of. The general climate of violence and destruction, sure. So, potentially true, I guess. Who knows?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:06 pm UTC

It could be counter propaganda. I guess that we will have to wait and see. Not on my places to visit anytime soon in any case.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:49 pm UTC

Given how much the cops already blatantly lied about Freddie Gray, I'm not willing to believe a single thing they say without corroborating outside evidence.

I am aware of Bloods and Crips coming together in Baltimore, but not to create violence.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:08 pm UTC

On the other hand: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... d-protest/

Truth is likely somewhere inbetween. Anti-police sentiment is high, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were specific calls to attack cops.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/media-fail-t ... ore-riots/

I'm definitely seeing hits of "violent riots" rocking Baltimore. Smashed cars, smashed windows, etc. etc. I'm fairly certain someone is angry with anti-police sentiment. I don't know much about Bloods vs Crypts though, aside from the basic "stay away from gangs, they crazy". MS-13 is more of what's in my area.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm UTC

A tumblr link... and then, "on the other hand", you post a link to Breitbart and World News Daily.

Personally, I'm going to wait until a news outlet has some more information. I've been hearing about riots for a few days now, and I first heard about Freddie Gray an hour ago.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:16 pm UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:A tumblr link... and then, "on the other hand", you post a link to Breitbart.

Personally, I'm going to wait until a news outlet has some more information. I've been hearing about riots for a few days now, and I first heard about Freddie Gray an hour ago.


Sorry for the link. Never heard of Breitbart before, I'm just posting what is on top of my news.google.com feed on this issue.

The Freddie Gray story will reach its climax on May 1st when they decide whether or not to press charges against the 6 police officers. Unlike a lot of other police departments, Baltimore PD is 43% African American, and led by Anthony Bratt, who is also African American. IIRC, Baltimore is a majority-black city, but its police makeup is at least within the realm of "similar" to the population.

So the racial undertones of the Police issue here haven't been fanned quite as hard as elsewhere. In any case, I think smashed windows and smashed cars would be pretty easy to verify... right?

EDIT: Baltimore Sun seems reputable. What do you think? http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... story.html

Along Howard Street the damage sustained by storefronts appeared random — like the path of a tornado. Shards of glass glinted in Sunday sun as business owners assessed the harm done in the protest that resulted in more than 30 arrests.

Ten plate-glass windows of the 7-Eleven at Howard and Baltimore Streets were cracked. Duct tape was placed over the spider-web-shaped fissures. The store was looted, said Margaret Chabris, a 7-Eleven corporate spokeswoman.

....

The Rossbacks left the game early when it began to rain and saw damaged police cars being towed away. They had come to town for the game and said they would not be dissuaded from returning.


So we've got smashed shops and stores. And we've got people specifically targeting police cars and smashing them up. I'm not necessarily saying that the Bloods and the Crypts are out to get the Police, but there is clearly evidence that anti-police sentiment is high right now.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:31 pm UTC

so as someone from that area (or, okay, technically i live in dc, but my partner lives in baltimore so i spend as much time there as i do in dc) i was initially coming here to post about how much i hate the sensationalized media bs and also hate the people who just swallow it wholesale like it is totally unbiased and an accurate picture of what is going on,

but i had to pause because i was rolling my eyes too hard at the scarequotes around protesting to type for a bit and by the time i collected myself i realized that's not actually even the conversation i ever want to have around these things.

because, like, leaving aside the fact that the protests were completely peaceful and nonviolent until after the cops put on riot gear and started pushing people around and charging them with batons (there is some amusing irony to the fact that 90% of the anti-police-brutality protests i have attended in my life have culminated in police brutality) and then FOR SOME REASON people got more tense and agitated after being attacked?

but leaving aside all that, the thing is that these conversations are nonsense. they're a derailment. it is absolutely sickening to somehow insist that people need to be docile and peaceful in the face of literally being murdered, let's please not forget what all these protests are about. to insist that oppressed people currently in the grip of oppression, currently being killed in the streets, currently living in literal fear for our lives every fucking day, must solely express our justified righteous anger in the frameworks set up by our oppressors is a line of crap that i can't stomach.

these are our lives and our families and our bodies being gunned down and beaten and killed and somehow OH SHIT a couple broken windows are what we focus on here, like smashing up the rearview of a cop car delegitimizes what we're fighting for.

so sometimes i want to come and point out that the media spin is crap and fails to point out who actually instigated the violence (i mean, who instigated the violence at the protest itself -- because also please don't forget that in all of this white-liberal handwringing about peaceful protest and "violence begets violence", uh, yeah, we know it does, all this is a response to the violence that has already been enacted on us)

but mostly i just don't even want to go down that road because i don't care that they're lying about Who Started It or how terribly violent it was when that's missing the entire point.

hell yeah we're going to get violent. that's what you do when people are killing you.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:39 pm UTC

@natraj: I fail to see how smashing up a window of 7-11 and McDonalds is going to help with that however.

But at least you admit that the anti-police sentiment is there and strong. That's all I was trying to point out. This isn't a Crypts / Bloods kumbaya peace pipe protest, its evolving into a serious riot at this point.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:42 pm UTC

of course the anti-police sentiment is there and strong. generally that is what happens when an organization has been murdering you en masse for an extended period of time.

but no, it is not "evolving into a serious riot". my point was that if it did it would be justified. not that it has. the media is just doing its usual sensationalistic nonsense.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:46 pm UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st4IHokD4Jc

I don't know "ReblopTV". But... the footage looks pretty riot-like to me. Do you got any other evidence?

EDIT: I hear people were not supposed to leave the Stadium during the game this past weekend due to the riots. I think that's a serious indication about how bad the riots are getting.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:02 pm UTC

nope! none whatsoever. and like i said, i don't care about providing evidence as to how violent or not-violent the protests were or were not. not even slightly!

it is the conversation you want to have so you are totally welcome to have it! but the explicit point of my post was that that was not the conversation i was interested in having, so i'm not going to get dragged into it. because i don't actually care how violent people were or were not. i have no interest in slapping nonsense ethical labels on the entirely justifiable expressions anger of people who are currently, actively, under attack and threat of our lives.

i mostly just want to come in every time people start hand-wringing about how terrible violent protesters are to remind them that we're out here being murdered, and if you're more concerned about the broken glass than the broken bodies maybe your priorities are a little out of order.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:12 pm UTC

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:15 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Given how much the cops already blatantly lied about Freddie Gray, I'm not willing to believe a single thing they say without corroborating outside evidence.
Surprisingly enough I concur.
natraj wrote: my point was that if it did it would be justified.
You're naive. Do you think if a riot is triggered that once it starts it will be confined to the Police? They have armor and weapons. They community would take the hit. They don't have any protection. It would be a good thing if the protests were peaceful.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Carlington » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:18 pm UTC

natraj's point wasn't about whether it would be good or bad, but that it would be justified. These are different concepts.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:23 pm UTC

no, i'm not. i've been pretty freaking heavily involved in activism for kind of a long while now and i have seen all this happen... a lot. and i am pretty well aware of how these things go so you can take your condescending assumptions about my beliefs and shove them.

you'll notice i said absolutely nothing about whether these were effective protest tactics. but guess who i am interested in discussing effective protest tactics with? the people i am out there protesting with. those are the people with whom i have had, and will continue to have, conversations with about what is effective and what the ramifications of certain things are. these are conversations that we have plenty and believe me we freaking know that things can and will get ugly if people start just wantonly rioting.

none of that changes the fact that i have zero interest in pretending that it is somehow immoral to smash up police cars or that protests are only morally legitimate if they are docile and peaceful.

eta: thanks, carlington. that was much less wordy! but yeah two... different concepts entirely.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:36 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:On the other hand: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... d-protest/

Truth is likely somewhere inbetween. Anti-police sentiment is high, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were specific calls to attack cops.


Likewise. And of course, the thing to remember is that gangs are fairly big, and composed of a lot of people. I wouldn't be at all shocked if someone in a gang promoted a violent confrontation. Doesn't mean it's universal, or organized. Gotta keep it in context.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/media-fail-to-identify-leader-of-baltimore-riots/

I'm definitely seeing hits of "violent riots" rocking Baltimore. Smashed cars, smashed windows, etc. etc. I'm fairly certain someone is angry with anti-police sentiment. I don't know much about Bloods vs Crypts though, aside from the basic "stay away from gangs, they crazy". MS-13 is more of what's in my area.


*shrug* I know they scrambled basically everyone that could be spared from central MD over the course of today, so it's been a massive influx of cops streaming into bmore over the course of the day. They're scaling up for full on riots. Armored vehicles, swat teams, all that stuff. It's bad now, but the cops definitely expect it to get worse.

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:A tumblr link... and then, "on the other hand", you post a link to Breitbart and World News Daily.

Personally, I'm going to wait until a news outlet has some more information. I've been hearing about riots for a few days now, and I first heard about Freddie Gray an hour ago.


Fox is actually crushing the coverage. Better than CNN, right now, though of course locally, it's on frigging everything.

The Freddie Gray story will reach its climax on May 1st when they decide whether or not to press charges against the 6 police officers. Unlike a lot of other police departments, Baltimore PD is 43% African American, and led by Anthony Bratt, who is also African American. IIRC, Baltimore is a majority-black city, but its police makeup is at least within the realm of "similar" to the population.


Well, today was the funeral, so that's kind of big...but I would imagine that deciding not to indict the officers has some nasty potential. I don't actually think this is particularly racist. Bmore police don't strike me that way. Willing to go WAY too far, and be super authoritarian? Sure. Corrupt? Sure. But they're just notorious in general, and Baltimore has kind of a reputation of "don't go there unless you want to die" locally.

Last I heard, seven cops down(all injured, though one KO, unresponsive, not sure if he'll pull through), lotsa cop cars trashed, at least one burned, full on tear gas, all that sort of thing.

natraj wrote:so as someone from that area (or, okay, technically i live in dc, but my partner lives in baltimore so i spend as much time there as i do in dc) i was initially coming here to post about how much i hate the sensationalized media bs and also hate the people who just swallow it wholesale like it is totally unbiased and an accurate picture of what is going on,


Have your S/O crash at your place if possible, IMO. Best to stay cleer of it.

And, the violence started last night, at the game. So, it's a back and forth escalation thing. It isn't *just* sensationalizing. Both sides are escalating this thing. Which, yknow, is why it's got scary potential.

but leaving aside all that, the thing is that these conversations are nonsense. they're a derailment. it is absolutely sickening to somehow insist that people need to be docile and peaceful in the face of literally being murdered, let's please not forget what all these protests are about. to insist that oppressed people currently in the grip of oppression, currently being killed in the streets, currently living in literal fear for our lives every fucking day, must solely express our justified righteous anger in the frameworks set up by our oppressors is a line of crap that i can't stomach.


Sort of, yes. I fully endorse self defense vs unjustified violence. Even if the unjustified violence is from police. And I definitely do understand the anti-police sentiment in Baltimore.

But this is getting crazy. People are looting drugstores and crap, that's not about defense. That's opportunism. You've got fires being started because, well...because they can. Arson doesn't help anybody, and won't protect anyone from the cops. It's a riot. It could get *worse*, but it's already pretty bad.

KnightExemplar wrote:EDIT: I hear people were not supposed to leave the Stadium during the game this past weekend due to the riots. I think that's a serious indication about how bad the riots are getting.


Yeah, I had a friend at the game, people were getting pulled into pubs bloodied and stuff because they were getting attacked in the streets. Now, it was mostly just on the streets at that point, so the bars were "safe", but yeah, it's absolutely bad and escalating through today.

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I'm sorry. I anticipate a torrent of nonsense on facebook and such myself. Some people just have to fan the flames.

morriswalters wrote:You're naive. Do you think if a riot is triggered that once it starts it will be confined to the Police? They have armor and weapons. They community would take the hit. They don't have any protection. It would be a good thing if the protests were peaceful.


Too late for "if". Also, Fox recently had some folks being hauled off by the cops who claimed they were being arrested for documenting it from their lawn. Not sure if true or not, but interesting.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:49 pm UTC

natraj wrote:i mostly just want to come in every time people start hand-wringing about how terrible violent protesters are to remind them that we're out here being murdered, and if you're more concerned about the broken glass than the broken bodies maybe your priorities are a little out of order.


As the riots escalate, I become more worried. Baltimore Riots of the 1960s killed people and destroyed neighborhoods.

I'm worried because things are escalating. Up until about last Saturday, the protests have been (relatively) peaceful. I've heard about Freddie Gray for weeks now and not much has changed. But with the "spark" of violent protest yesterday and today, it is clear that things are getting much worse. I'm sorry I'm a forward looking person. I'm worried about the potential of damage that is to come right now.

Looting and Arson are reported already. Which means police presence is only going to ratchet up. Heightened Police presence leads to more looting and arson. See how this cycle works?

Lets just say when the Nation of Islam are forming blockades against the protesters, you know things are getting bad. (Malcom X == Nation of Islam, in case people don't remember). Black groups are getting defensive about these protests and are doing everything they can to calm down and deescalate. I'm worried its too late however. (I also congratulate the Nation of Islam for being on the side of peace)

EDIT: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... story.html
Bryant said a group of men from the Nation of Islam planned to build a "human wall" to stop the mob from coming downtown. "Violence is not the answer," he said.


For support of the Nation of Islam comment I made.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:53 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:As the riots escalate, I become more worried. Baltimore Riots of the 1960s killed people and destroyed neighborhoods.

I'm worried because things are escalating. Up until about last Saturday, the protests have been (relatively) peaceful. I've heard about Freddie Gray for weeks now and not much has changed. But with the "spark" of violent protest yesterday and today, it is clear that things are getting much worse. I'm sorry I'm a forward looking person. I'm worried about the potential of damage that is to come right now.


Yeah. I was aware, but wasn't worried. Figured it was just one more in a long chain of such events.

Now, though, it's crazy. It seems the most important thing is sportsball. We can't cancel the GAME for mere riots. Nope, gotta watch the ballgame, and make a wall of riot police to ensure that sportsball goes off alright.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby natraj » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:56 pm UTC

@Tyndmyr: yeah, looting drugstores is pretty pointless and untargeted. my SO as well as a huge number of my baltimorean friends have been at the protests since the beginning and i'm heading down to help out as a medic so i will likely end up crashing on his couch rather than vice versa. from what i have heard from them/seen from their livestreams as yet, the actual vandalism by people at the protest was directed at cop cars (after the cops had already broken out the riot gear and rushed the group several times) and a lot of the other looting etc that has been starting up around the city has been less protest-related and more opportunistic, like

people are like "oh man all the cops are busy! sweet! let's take advantage of that!"

but i don't know how long the situation will stay like that before everything just converges into Huge Indistinguishable Mess.

i mean, i said up above that i have been involved in activism a long time and have been through all this but the thing is that a ton of the people out there right now... haven't. and aren't ready for all this. they're just, like, kids, who are scared and upset and this murder happened to their friend in their neighborhood and suddenly this huge national spotlight is on them. and... there are definitely conversations worth having (internal to everyone out in the streets agitating for justice) about what is effective and what is productive and what is just perpetuating bringing more terrible into our neighborhoods -- and i totally agree that it isn't worthwhile to be looting shops and smashing people's businesses, that is not going to the root of where these problems are at all and are just helping to continue the cycles of poverty and violence that are already hurting us.

i think i just get frustrated (not at you, in general) because every time all this is brought up, it is mostly just a lot of unconnected (often white) (often middle/upper class) people who are on the outside of all this looking in and finger-wagging in a general sort of way at how Violence Is Bad without much by way of analysis of where the violence actually started (it sure wasn't with us) or the actual morality of expecting people to be peaceful in the face of murder, and only kind of as an afterthought bring up the 'tactical' part when it's more of a concern trolling thing since it's not like they're in any way helping or affected by all this anyway.

uhh that was really rambly sorry i am on a bus and wicked headachey and all this kind of stresses me a lot but! hopefully it was at least marginally coherent.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:59 pm UTC

natraj wrote:uhh that was really rambly sorry i am on a bus and wicked headachey and all this kind of stresses me a lot but! hopefully it was at least marginally coherent.
I wish the media covered your perspective with even a tenth the fervor they use to cover the 'white middle class finger wagglers from their couch' perspective.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:01 pm UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:A tumblr link...
Dismissing it as such suggests you didn't actually click it. It's screenshots of Tweets from multiple on-the-ground sources about the Baltimore protests, including pictures taken of Bloods and Crips together at said protests.

And I don't know why you'd trust "news outlets" over the social media posts themselves, given that those outlets often get their information from the very same social media posts you're dismissing.

The fact that those same "news outlets" are the ones pretending like this is a riot (and has always been a riot) tells me all I need to know about their reliability. When you've got more cops in riot gear than you have civilians peacefully protesting, of course it's going to look riot-like if the police want you to think it's riot-like, but it also tells you who's preparing to have a riot.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:05 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:The fact that those same "news outlets" are the ones pretending like this is a riot (and has always been a riot) tells me all I need to know about their reliability. When you've got more cops in riot gear than you have civilians peacefully protesting, of course it's going to look riot-like if the police want you to think it's riot-like, but it also tells you who's preparing to have a riot.


Dude, the cops are wearing Riot Helmets because the cops who didn't got a face full of bricks today.

There's a reason why the cops wear helmets and shields.

I don't know why you're in a "riot deny" state. The people actually from Baltimore seem to be acknowledging the fact that the situation on the ground is getting worse. I know that it must feel nice to think that this is a Blood x Crypts happy moment, but I don't think that illusion is matching up with reality.

As for the people in Baltimore: stay safe please. Whether or not I agree with you doesn't necessarily mean that I wish you harm. Good luck in the protests and stay safe regardless. With any luck, the Nation of Islam thing may calm some people down. But as I said before, I'd expect everything to get worse come May 1st, when the indictment process goes down.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:09 pm UTC

Stay safe out there, it's definitely a little sketchy, but you already know that. Me, I'm not going into the city unless I have to evac someone.

Yeah...there are a *lot* of kids involved in this. Police tried putting out a call for all parents to locate their kids and bring them home. Ehhh. Not sure that will matter at this point. There's already so many people on the street that it's a wee bit beyond the finger wagging level. I *think* they're trying to just surge enough cops to do enough mass arrests to shut everything down. Overwelming force.

No issues with the rambly and stuff. And yeah, some people on social media are responding tritely or outright terribly. I mean, the initial event was...seriously, how do you end up with your spine severed while cuffed in police custody? That's messed up. Ferguson, you had some confusion and controversy and whatever, but this, it's pretty clear even according to the police account that he was fine before they took him into custody, and they have no explanation for "oops, he just died because of obvious trauma".

gmalivuk wrote:The fact that those same "news outlets" are the ones pretending like this is a riot (and has always been a riot) tells me all I need to know about their reliability. When you've got more cops in riot gear than you have civilians peacefully protesting, of course it's going to look riot-like if the police want you to think it's riot-like, but it also tells you who's preparing to have a riot.


*shrug* It's a riot now. It wasn't before the weekend, but it is now.

Obviously the cops have done a lot more riot preparation than your average protester, but...that's where we are. They kept the helmets off for a while, and then the casualities started happening. So far, to the best of my knowledge, they haven't resorted to firearms, but they are using gas grenades(in vast quantities), pepper spray, paintball guns, clubs, etc. And the other side is tossing bricks and burning cars. It's a riot.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:12 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:natraj's point wasn't about whether it would be good or bad, but that it would be justified. These are different concepts.
Define justified for me. Rioting is what it is. Looting, miscellaneous assaults, burning, and in rare cases murder.
Tyndmyr wrote:Too late for "if".
No, it isn't. It could be really much worse. For instance it could spread to DC.
natraj wrote:because every time all this is brought up, it is mostly just a lot of unconnected (often white) (often middle/upper class) people who are on the outside of all this looking in and finger-wagging in a general sort of way at how Violence Is Bad
You act like you are the only one who has seen the "bad" things, or feels anything about it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:18 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Carlington wrote:natraj's point wasn't about whether it would be good or bad, but that it would be justified. These are different concepts.
Define justified for me. Rioting is what it is. Looting, miscellaneous assaults, burning, and in rare cases murder.
Tyndmyr wrote:Too late for "if".
No, it isn't. It could be really much worse. For instance it could spread to DC.
natraj wrote:because every time all this is brought up, it is mostly just a lot of unconnected (often white) (often middle/upper class) people who are on the outside of all this looking in and finger-wagging in a general sort of way at how Violence Is Bad
You act like you are the only one who has seen the "bad" things, or feels anything about it.


Oh, it could ALWAYS be worse. But we're well into riot circumstances now. It's fairly serious. Fortunately, haven't heard anything about it spreading to DC as of yet, but given that much of the state is pumping cops into bmore, an expansion of scope would necessarily strain police resources.

Lotta news coming out now is hella time lagged. For instance, the "seven cops hurt" seems to have originated from a police statement at 4:30, and we're about two hours later now. Mayor, governor are behind the curve on reacting to this, though the police seem to have been amping up for it all weekend. Curious.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:19 pm UTC

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... imore.html

Nation of Islam claims they helped broker the deal between Crips and Bloods.

As noted before, Nation of Islam is also been congratulated by Mayor for helping keep the protests peaceful, and they were apparently responsible for at least one blockade today that helped keep the peace.

In any case, the Crips / Bloods gang rivalry may in fact be peaceful for now. So lets see where that goes. I know these are gangs, not top-down units of order however. It is very likely that some Crips / Bloods members are peacefully protesting, while others are violently protesting / rioting / looting.

People are also going to have to recognize the same of the Police. There's the Baltimore City police, but it looks like Baltimore County Police have also been called in. These are two separate groups of officers.

----------------

The protests today were apparently started by high-school kids acting out "The Purge". The news feeds show a transition from "kids protesting" and towards general rioting however.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:40 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:People are also going to have to recognize the same of the Police. There's the Baltimore City police, but it looks like Baltimore County Police have also been called in. These are two separate groups of officers.


It's WAY more than two. They've called in Montgomery County, Anne Arundel, PG County's been there all day...they got cops driving up from Ocean City. They're grabbing everyone they can from everywhere.

The protests today were apparently started by high-school kids acting out "The Purge". The news feeds show a transition from "kids protesting" and towards general rioting however.


Yeah, I heard that report too. The "Purge" connection seems tenuous. Evidently, there was a warning on social media to stay away from the school because a fight was gonna happen, cops obviously showed up in force, and a confrontation did indeed occur. However, that's...not really much like the movie, and it's probably reporters going nuts over some kid's stupid twitter comment or something.

CVS burnin' down, looks pretty doomed from the chopper-cam. More stores gettin' looted. Media are openly speculating about how bad it'll get once the sun goes down.

Edit: National Guard going on alert, Obama's gonna make a statement or something.

Relevant trivia: Bmore police union president had, before this erupted, described the then-peaceful protesters as a "lynch mob". That probably did not help.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:46 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:The fact that those same "news outlets" are the ones pretending like this is a riot (and has always been a riot) tells me all I need to know about their reliability. When you've got more cops in riot gear than you have civilians peacefully protesting, of course it's going to look riot-like if the police want you to think it's riot-like, but it also tells you who's preparing to have a riot.


Dude, the cops are wearing Riot Helmets because the cops who didn't got a face full of bricks today.
They showed up in riot gear well before anything that could actually be called a riot happened anywhere.

Y'know, kinda like they did in Ferguson back in August. And multiple times since then. But police apologists conveniently get the order switched around then too.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:48 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:The fact that those same "news outlets" are the ones pretending like this is a riot (and has always been a riot) tells me all I need to know about their reliability. When you've got more cops in riot gear than you have civilians peacefully protesting, of course it's going to look riot-like if the police want you to think it's riot-like, but it also tells you who's preparing to have a riot.


Dude, the cops are wearing Riot Helmets because the cops who didn't got a face full of bricks today.
They showed up in riot gear well before anything that could actually be called a riot happened anywhere.

Y'know, kinda like they did in Ferguson back in August. And multiple times since then. But police apologists conveniently get the order switched around then too.


It's not a matter of being "police apologists", they did make a point to avoid wearing helmets for the most part until cops started taking bricks to the head. Now, they were wearing other components of riot gear, but the helmets are at least mostly a reaction, as are the armored vehicles, which were also not out until after cops started dropping.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:07 pm UTC

Show up in shirt sleeves and baseball caps. Right. They could just pull out.

However it as well this is happening now versus late summer . Weather will do something to keep it down. Rain would be even better. Preferably a cold hard rain.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KrytenKoro » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:20 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Sorry for the link. Never heard of Breitbart before, I'm just posting what is on top of my news.google.com feed on this issue.

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but with the topics you've discussed on other threads, how have you not heard of Breitbart?

KnightExemplar wrote:
EDIT: I hear people were not supposed to leave the Stadium during the game this past weekend due to the riots. I think that's a serious indication about how bad the riots are getting.

Yeah, I had a friend at the game, people were getting pulled into pubs bloodied and stuff because they were getting attacked in the streets. Now, it was mostly just on the streets at that point, so the bars were "safe", but yeah, it's absolutely bad and escalating through today.

Wait...how frequently do people riot in Baltimore over sports matches?

I have heard, at least, that white people frequently riot over sports matches elsewhere in the world. Basically, any time alcohol is involved.

More seriously, is the suggestion here that anyone should stop protesting because of the rioting?

Would it not logically follow that people should stop sportsing because of the rioting?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:45 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Sorry for the link. Never heard of Breitbart before, I'm just posting what is on top of my news.google.com feed on this issue.

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, but with the topics you've discussed on other threads, how have you not heard of Breitbart?


https://xkcd.com/1053/

I think I've made it clear in other posts that my primary source of information is actually CSpan. I prefer to get my bias from the politician's mouth directly. All the other news channels add bias on top of bias and distort viewpoints.

More seriously, is the suggestion here that anyone should stop protesting because of the rioting?

Would it not logically follow that people should stop sportsing because of the rioting?


It would seem like his suggestion is the latter. Although, aren't these sports events in charge of tens of millions of dollars of revenue? Shutting down a sports event would in fact be more "costly" than the cleanup of the riots so far.

gmalivuk wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:The fact that those same "news outlets" are the ones pretending like this is a riot (and has always been a riot) tells me all I need to know about their reliability. When you've got more cops in riot gear than you have civilians peacefully protesting, of course it's going to look riot-like if the police want you to think it's riot-like, but it also tells you who's preparing to have a riot.


Dude, the cops are wearing Riot Helmets because the cops who didn't got a face full of bricks today.
They showed up in riot gear well before anything that could actually be called a riot happened anywhere.

Y'know, kinda like they did in Ferguson back in August. And multiple times since then. But police apologists conveniently get the order switched around then too.


I'm not exactly sure of the order, or why it matters gmalivuk.

What matters is that the situation in Baltimore is clearly escalating right now, and I think people need to do what they need to do to deescalate. I think the Blood / Crips thing with the Nation of Islam was a good step forward, but if police officers continue to get bricks to the face, then its clear where this situation is going to go.

The main problem is that Bloods / Crips uniting is not exactly a friendly thought to Police. So even if they intended that protest to be peaceful, it won't be interpreted as such. It looks like the Nation of Islam is in the unique state of being on friendly-terms with both the gangs AND the local police forces. So its kinda up to them to continue to broker peace.

At least its clear that when this thing turns into a shitstorm later this week... it will be clear that some parties were trying to help. The Mayor seems to have constantly talked in the press with members of the Nation of Islam behind her. I don't really think its enough to prevent this from escalating however.

Tyndmyr wrote:Relevant trivia: Bmore police union president had, before this erupted, described the then-peaceful protesters as a "lynch mob". That probably did not help.


Indeed. But the Fraternal Order of Police doesn't have any power over citizens. And they've been very "critical" of the Baltimore Police for admitting that they made mistakes.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... story.html
"We are disappointed in the comments made yesterday by Commissioner Anthony Batts, and various members of his Command Staff, relative to the actions of the officers directly involved in the Gray investigation," said Gene Ryan, president of the Baltimore City Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge Number 3, in a prepared statement.


That's the thing about "Police". They're composed of different groups as well, and some people in this thread can't seem to sort out the different groups. Beyond that, the FoP are a union like any other, they strive to represent the workers. In this case, the Police Officers. So who to listen to? Commissioner Batts IMO is a better representative of "the Police", because as the guy with _actual_ authority, he's the one who's gonna be authorizing the riot equipment tonight.

-----------------------

At this point, the Governor of Maryland has declared the situation an emergency and has deployed the National Guard.

+ Gov. Larry Hogan signed an executive order declaring a state of emergency and activating the Maryland National Guard. He was set to speak at Maryland Emergency Management Agency headquarters at 8:30 p.m.


The game has also been postponed.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orio ... story.html
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KrytenKoro » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:10 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:https://xkcd.com/1053/

I think I've made it clear in other posts that my primary source of information is actually CSpan. I prefer to get my bias from the politician's mouth directly. All the other news channels add bias on top of bias and distort viewpoints.

I'm more talking times you've specifically referenced drama they've been engaged in. Wasn't make fun of you, more shocked that you managed to talk about those topics without knowing of their central instigator, but oh well.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:27 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Edit: National Guard going on alert, Obama's gonna make a statement or something.
More and more just like Ferguson in August.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:03 am UTC

Image

Senior Center goes up in flames tonight...

"We didn't even want people to protest today. It was just a time to grieve for Freddie and to celebrate his life," Morgan said.


"Morgan says Gray family/Gilmor Homes folks aren't rioting, and won't be. Instead, "we're going to be out tomorrow cleaning up, for sure."


"Morgan" is a cousin of Freddie Gray. Needless to say, the riots at this point are not supported by Freddie's families and have therefore lost legitimacy with me. IMO, this is a good move on Morgan's part to disassociate with the violence and looting that is going on. Prayers go out to the families and protesters out there. I know yall are different from the "looters" and "rioters". But this tends to be the way that protests evolve unfortunately.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby morriswalters » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:34 am UTC

In the relative scheme of things, it isn't all that bad. It could be much worse. The cops are playing catchup, looters can move faster than the police. Nobody dead yet.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:41 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:In the relative scheme of things, it isn't all that bad. It could be much worse. The cops are playing catchup, looters can move faster than the police. Nobody dead yet.


Yeah, but the deadline for the charges against the Police Officers involved with Freddie Gray is still days away. Ferguson riots got crazy after the grand jury proceeding. The riots at this point are pretty bad before anything has really happened officially. On the other hand, there has been a lot of "pride" in Baltimore up until now. Pride and hope that the protests would carry on peacefully.

The protests have been going on for over week. But this is only "day 3" of riots. Things only started being violent on Saturday night. So... to see things get this bad in basically 3 days is surprising.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby rath358 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:49 am UTC

Is there a "good" place to get live-ish coverage of events that isn't as problematic as the mainstream coverage that is being criticized here? I am very interested in the situation, but don't really know how to access it.


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