Police misbehavior thread

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

WilliamLehnsherr
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:58 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:53 am UTC

Not really something I'd consider misbehavior (or at least not misbehavior that reflects badly on police), but police in Australia are in trouble for handcuffing Lily Allen for a joke:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebri ... zxiih.html

I'm posting it here because it's kind of strange that often times the police are quick to defend brutal and negligent acts, but when they do something that shows they have a sense of humour then DEAR GOD SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

(Obviously any breach of protocol should be investigated and this won't be treated as seriously as a case of abuse. It just sometimes looks as if even police in Australia seem terrified by the prospect of the public seeing them as regular people doing a job and not faceless drones robotically enforcing the law.)

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10493
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:46 am UTC

WilliamLehnsherr wrote:Not really something I'd consider misbehavior (or at least not misbehavior that reflects badly on police), but police in Australia are in trouble for handcuffing Lily Allen for a joke:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebri ... zxiih.html

I'm posting it here because it's kind of strange that often times the police are quick to defend brutal and negligent acts, but when they do something that shows they have a sense of humour then DEAR GOD SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

(Obviously any breach of protocol should be investigated and this won't be treated as seriously as a case of abuse. It just sometimes looks as if even police in Australia seem terrified by the prospect of the public seeing them as regular people doing a job and not faceless drones robotically enforcing the law.)


Dicking around on the job is not part of the job description even though it's part of the job. The officer was caught in the act, sooo... yeah.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:26 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:Not really something I'd consider misbehavior (or at least not misbehavior that reflects badly on police), but police in Australia are in trouble for handcuffing Lily Allen for a joke:

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebri ... zxiih.html

I'm posting it here because it's kind of strange that often times the police are quick to defend brutal and negligent acts, but when they do something that shows they have a sense of humour then DEAR GOD SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

(Obviously any breach of protocol should be investigated and this won't be treated as seriously as a case of abuse. It just sometimes looks as if even police in Australia seem terrified by the prospect of the public seeing them as regular people doing a job and not faceless drones robotically enforcing the law.)


Dicking around on the job is not part of the job description even though it's part of the job. The officer was caught in the act, sooo... yeah.

A Beautiful woman can talk men into the Weirdest Shit.
That photo showed restraint. (tee heee)

The Polish Police were caught playing the Piano.
The Aussies were caught 'going along'.
The English are learning their Manners over again.
The Americans? Being impersonated by Assholes is my first guess.

Allow those that have Normal Problems to have their Normal Problems.
Send out a Message. "You are doing fine. Do not read and copy Our Book."

We may have gotten old Russian Policy Papers from the Dark Days in a Secret DownLoad.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
Posts: 5929
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC
Location: UK/[St. Kitts and] Nevis Occasionally, I migrate to the US for a bit

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Angua » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:45 am UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:Four New York policemen are on modified duty. They could not manage to arrest a man for selling untaxed cigarettes without killing him. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/20/nypd-arrest-death_n_5604208.html

The EMTs did not help. They just loaded him into an ambulance so a doctor could determine he was dead.

The ME has stated that the police used a chokehold which was cause of death.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28616356
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

User avatar
Coyne
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:07 am UTC
Location: Orlando, Florida
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:56 am UTC

In all fairness...

Mutex
Posts: 1463
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Mutex » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:24 am UTC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28656324

Officers in Scotland have become the first police to routinely carry firearms in the mainland UK (Northern Ireland police are routinely armed). The change in policy means that 1.6% of police will be routinely carrying firearms. The policy change is that "specialist" firearms officers, when not responding to an incident, will carry out normal police duty while carrying their firearm.

Not exactly misbehaviour, but if this trend continues it could result in the escalating arms-race with criminals that the UK has managed to avoid for so long.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6788
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby sardia » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:21 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28656324

Officers in Scotland have become the first police to routinely carry firearms in the mainland UK (Northern Ireland police are routinely armed). The change in policy means that 1.6% of police will be routinely carrying firearms. The policy change is that "specialist" firearms officers, when not responding to an incident, will carry out normal police duty while carrying their firearm.

Not exactly misbehaviour, but if this trend continues it could result in the escalating arms-race with criminals that the UK has managed to avoid for so long.

But guns are needed cuz we can't trust criminals to react predictably...or so the NRA tells me.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:10 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:The change in policy means that 1.6% of police will be routinely carrying firearms. The policy change is that "specialist" firearms officers, when not responding to an incident, will carry out normal police duty while carrying their firearm.


This really doesn't bother me, in itself. It's only really troubling if it's the start of a trend of police carrying firearms, and citizens not being permitted to do the same. 1.6% isn't huge, but...I'm not overly fond of special rules.

However, sardia, I think it is unlikely that the NRA had much influence in this decision. They are a heavily US-focused organization, and they have not typically had a great deal of pull in the UK. Is there some information pertaining to the NRA and this change that's relevant?

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:46 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28656324

Officers in Scotland have become the first police to routinely carry firearms in the mainland UK (Northern Ireland police are routinely armed). The change in policy means that 1.6% of police will be routinely carrying firearms. The policy change is that "specialist" firearms officers, when not responding to an incident, will carry out normal police duty while carrying their firearm.

Not exactly misbehaviour, but if this trend continues it could result in the escalating arms-race with criminals that the UK has managed to avoid for so long.

Please do avoid the Arms Race.

Once everyone has a gun then,
"Who has the Biggest Gun?" Becomes the question.

And/Or, "Who has the Most Guns?"
Then, "Who has the Coolest Gun?"

Some people think No Gun is the coolest gun.
How brave a person must be to walk into a crime scene without a gun.

The UK has crime.
The UK police have been working with Crimnals!
Unarmed!

In the Ideal the Police Officers do not Judge,
They protect Everyone while the Gears of Justice turn.

That is in the Ideal.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
PictureSarah
Secretary of Penile Nomenclature
Posts: 4576
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:37 pm UTC
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby PictureSarah » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:56 pm UTC

http://nationalreport.net/nyc-police-of ... -argument/

This story made me cry and gag at work. I can't even imagine.
"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."

User avatar
Sizik
Posts: 1245
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:48 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Sizik » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:02 pm UTC

satire
she/they
gmalivuk wrote:
King Author wrote:If space (rather, distance) is an illusion, it'd be possible for one meta-me to experience both body's sensory inputs.
Yes. And if wishes were horses, wishing wells would fill up very quickly with drowned horses.

User avatar
PictureSarah
Secretary of Penile Nomenclature
Posts: 4576
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:37 pm UTC
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby PictureSarah » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:05 pm UTC

Well I feel stupid, but am very relieved! I normally pick up on satire right away...it was pretty shitty satire.
"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."

speising
Posts: 2350
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:54 pm UTC
Location: wien

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby speising » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:15 pm UTC

satire is supposed to be funny, isn't it? and probably an exaggeration of reality. this story is neither.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:22 pm UTC

Baltimore's launching a strict curfew program(reputed to be the strictest in the nation). Used to be, if you were under seventeen, it was legal to be out 'till midnight. Now, there's a range, but it may be as early as 9pm. So, if you're out and about and appear young, police may require you to produce ID confirming you're old enough.

Community rec centers are being repurposed into places where unsupervised children caught out outside of allowed hours are held.

Researchers say there is no evidence to suggest that curfews reduce crime or keep children safe. For instance, a study of crime statistics from 1980 to 1996 in California cities with youth curfews found no correlation between curfews and crime by or against juveniles. linky

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:07 pm UTC

Was America invaded by some foreign power while I wasn't looking? Why the fuck do you guys have curfews?
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6568
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:22 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Was America invaded by some foreign power while I wasn't looking? Why the fuck do you guys have curfews?


They've had them for kids as far back as I can remember. They are there because kids under the age of 18 are all criminals and can't be trusted. I mean, if you ignore that 18-25 year olds are significantly more likely to commit crimes than 10-17 year olds, it makes perfect sense.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:27 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
Diadem wrote:Was America invaded by some foreign power while I wasn't looking? Why the fuck do you guys have curfews?


They've had them for kids as far back as I can remember. They are there because kids under the age of 18 are all criminals and can't be trusted. I mean, if you ignore that 18-25 year olds are significantly more likely to commit crimes than 10-17 year olds, it makes perfect sense.


Plus, we all know that crimes can only happen while our side of the planet is facing away from the sun, right? Children transform into crime-beasts, then.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:28 pm UTC

Sizik wrote:satire

I am so glad you discovered the falseness in that story, before I read it.
Gross.

We like to freak each other out.
The internet can make the most unnatural and perverse action seem easily believable.

Humans Will Do Horrible Things.
We don't have to.

It is nice that a poster stepped up to moderate, at least label, what we are exposed to.
I don't know what to believe on some days.

Mark Twain was a funny guy.
He said, "Believe none of what you read and only half of what you see with your own eyes."

The man was an optimist.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Coyne
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:07 am UTC
Location: Orlando, Florida
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:39 pm UTC

speising wrote:satire is supposed to be funny, isn't it? and probably an exaggeration of reality. this story is neither.

Satire is a parody done by exaggerating reality. According to this Wikipedia article on Poe's Law, satire becomes difficult to identify when extremism is exaggerated.

The story might have been intended as satire, but everyone (including me) is having trouble recognizing the parody because it is so clearly something that NYPD might believably do.

...and that should give you the willies.
In all fairness...

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:01 am UTC

Willies received and installed.
And; I didn't read the article.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Dark567
First one to notify the boards of Rick and Morty Season 3
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:12 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(in the US, I don't venture outside it too often, unfortunately)

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Dark567 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:58 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
Diadem wrote:Was America invaded by some foreign power while I wasn't looking? Why the fuck do you guys have curfews?


They've had them for kids as far back as I can remember. They are there because kids under the age of 18 are all criminals and can't be trusted. I mean, if you ignore that 18-25 year olds are significantly more likely to commit crimes than 10-17 year olds, it makes perfect sense.
Well, I believe its considered unconstitutional to have a curfew for someone 18 and over. Or else I'm sure some cities would have them.
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:10 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
Thesh wrote:
Diadem wrote:Was America invaded by some foreign power while I wasn't looking? Why the fuck do you guys have curfews?


They've had them for kids as far back as I can remember. They are there because kids under the age of 18 are all criminals and can't be trusted. I mean, if you ignore that 18-25 year olds are significantly more likely to commit crimes than 10-17 year olds, it makes perfect sense.
Well, I believe its considered unconstitutional to have a curfew for someone 18 and over. Or else I'm sure some cities would have them.

That's just silly.
All any Mayor or Governor or President has to do is declare Marshall's Law.
Then it is early to Home and you may as well go to bed, there is no Wi-Fi.

Do you remember the Rolling Brown Outs?
(oh, how soon we forget)

That sort of thing, subdues a population.
It can't last too long or there is a Rebound Effect.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Dark567
First one to notify the boards of Rick and Morty Season 3
Posts: 3686
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:12 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(in the US, I don't venture outside it too often, unfortunately)

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Dark567 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:26 pm UTC

addams wrote:
Dark567 wrote:
Thesh wrote:
Diadem wrote:Was America invaded by some foreign power while I wasn't looking? Why the fuck do you guys have curfews?


They've had them for kids as far back as I can remember. They are there because kids under the age of 18 are all criminals and can't be trusted. I mean, if you ignore that 18-25 year olds are significantly more likely to commit crimes than 10-17 year olds, it makes perfect sense.
Well, I believe its considered unconstitutional to have a curfew for someone 18 and over. Or else I'm sure some cities would have them.

That's just silly.
All any Mayor or Governor or President has to do is declare Marshall's Law.
Then it is early to Home and you may as well go to bed, there is no Wi-Fi.
Well, right. Martial Law generally comes along with the suspension of constitutional rights.
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:00 am UTC

I'm really surprised what's going on in Ferguson hasn't been mentioned here.

Unarmed black teenager gets shot by police walking away with his hands up. In response there are numerous peaceful protests which the police quickly responded to with tear gas, riot gear and arrests. News crews are being told to stay away and stop filming and an Al Jazeera film crew had a tear gas cannister thrown directly at them despite obviously not being involved.

The police have refused to give up any information about the killer who is on paid leave although the FBI are, apparently, investigating. People ringing up the Ferguson police department have been racially abused and laughed at when they've tried to get information or lodge official complaints.

Much of the protests have been filmed and, from the footage, it's pretty clear that the police are instigating most, if not all, of the violence. There are numerous accounts of people being fired on whilst unarmed with their hands raised, at least one was shot directly in the face at close range.

The difference in reaction between Ferguson (where an unarmed black man was walking away with his hands up) and Bundy ranch (where an armed white guy with a load of militias claimed to be above the law and that he would back that up with force) are damning.

Numerous schools have closed which, apparently, are one of the major sources of food for many Ferguson children, there is an online campaign to raise money for food for them as well as another for a bail and legal fund for those arrested for exercising their right to peaceful protest.

Edit: forgot to mention that, notably, despite Ferguson 2/3 black, the police force is entirely white.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10493
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:43 pm UTC

Can the governor force police to carry only stun guns? I feel like the governor should force the Ferguson police force to only carry stun guns. Make a big deal about how things are going to change, take away the toys and the sniper rifles and so forth. Let the other departments know that if they do something so reckless as killing a non threatening kid (in front of witnesses), they will lose their toys as well.

Also in the news, officer Darren Wilson. No 'disciplinary issues'. Not sure if that's better or a sign of a hell of a lot worse.

cphite
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby cphite » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:08 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:I'm really surprised what's going on in Ferguson hasn't been mentioned here.

Unarmed black teenager gets shot by police walking away with his hands up.


That is one version of the story. The police maintain that he was going for the officers gun, not walking away. Hard to know either way which version is accurate.

In response there are numerous peaceful protests which the police quickly responded to with tear gas, riot gear and arrests. News crews are being told to stay away and stop filming and an Al Jazeera film crew had a tear gas cannister thrown directly at them despite obviously not being involved.


Ummm... no. Just no. While I completely agree that the police response has been overly heavy-handed, and while I completely believe that police in this country are becoming far too militarized and swift to use force; the fact is the response was to looting and vandalism - not simply peaceful protests. There is fault here on both sides. On the one hand you have people who were using the situation as an excuse to have a "shopping spree" (their own words) and on the other hand you have a police force that responded with force that seems to far exceed what was necessary, in a much broader manner than necessary.

The police have refused to give up any information about the killer who is on paid leave although the FBI are, apparently, investigating. People ringing up the Ferguson police department have been racially abused and laughed at when they've tried to get information or lodge official complaints.


They supposedly held off on revealing his name due to threats; I don't agree with that decision but it is what it is. The charges that people are being racially abused and/or laughed at are, at this point, unsubstantiated. If it's happening and people can prove that it's happening, then clearly people need to lose their jobs at that police department.

Much of the protests have been filmed and, from the footage, it's pretty clear that the police are instigating most, if not all, of the violence. There are numerous accounts of people being fired on whilst unarmed with their hands raised, at least one was shot directly in the face at close range.

The difference in reaction between Ferguson (where an unarmed black man was walking away with his hands up) and Bundy ranch (where an armed white guy with a load of militias claimed to be above the law and that he would back that up with force) are damning.


The difference in reaction was due in very large part to what was being reacted to... At no point were any of the people on the Bundy ranch smashing windows, or robbing local businesses, or taking any other violent actions against anyone. Again, I agree that the police response was far more than it needed to be; but this notion that all that was happening in Ferguson was peaceful is simply false.

Edit: forgot to mention that, notably, despite Ferguson 2/3 black, the police force is entirely white.


Yeah, that does seem like a red flag.

User avatar
Red Hal
Magically Delicious
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:42 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Red Hal » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:24 pm UTC

No-fly zone for police helicopters, journalists turned away or targeted by police (prior to state police becoming involved). Cphite, the balance of probabilities is currently not on the side you are defending, though whether it will end up there I don't know. Right now the only facts are that an unarmed person is now dead, shot by an armed police officer under uncertain circumstances, and eye-witnesses claim the person who was shot was walking away with their hands-up. That should be readily verifiable, then we can see which version of events is supported.
Lost Greatest Silent Baby X Y Z. "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain..."

User avatar
setzer777
Good questions sometimes get stupid answers
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:24 am UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby setzer777 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:29 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:I'm really surprised what's going on in Ferguson hasn't been mentioned here.

Unarmed black teenager gets shot by police walking away with his hands up.


That is one version of the story. The police maintain that he was going for the officers gun, not walking away. Hard to know either way which version is accurate.


The police are claiming that the altercation started because of him attacking the officer in his car and trying to take the gun. I don't think the police are trying to deny that he was also shot several feet away from the car with his back turned.
Meaux_Pas wrote:We're here to go above and beyond.

Too infinity
of being an arsehole

KrytenKoro
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby KrytenKoro » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:57 pm UTC

EDIT: Nevermind, was mistaken.
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:21 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
In response there are numerous peaceful protests which the police quickly responded to with tear gas, riot gear and arrests. News crews are being told to stay away and stop filming and an Al Jazeera film crew had a tear gas cannister thrown directly at them despite obviously not being involved.


Ummm... no. Just no. While I completely agree that the police response has been overly heavy-handed, and while I completely believe that police in this country are becoming far too militarized and swift to use force; the fact is the response was to looting and vandalism - not simply peaceful protests. There is fault here on both sides. On the one hand you have people who were using the situation as an excuse to have a "shopping spree" (their own words) and on the other hand you have a police force that responded with force that seems to far exceed what was necessary, in a much broader manner than necessary.


(By my understanding) your timeline is wrong; the police were already arresting the peaceful protestors and responding with vastly unnecessary force by the time actual rioting (and looting and vandalism) started.

Red Hal wrote:No-fly zone for police helicopters, journalists turned away or targeted by police (prior to state police becoming involved). Cphite, the balance of probabilities is currently not on the side you are defending, though whether it will end up there I don't know. Right now the only facts are that an unarmed person is now dead, shot by an armed police officer under uncertain circumstances, and eye-witnesses claim the person who was shot was walking away with their hands-up. That should be readily verifiable, then we can see which version of events is supported.


It's worth pointing out as well that the dash-cam footage has yet to be released by the police. If it supported there case, I suspect they'd have been quicker to do so.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:33 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:
cphite wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:I'm really surprised what's going on in Ferguson hasn't been mentioned here.

Unarmed black teenager gets shot by police walking away with his hands up.


That is one version of the story. The police maintain that he was going for the officers gun, not walking away. Hard to know either way which version is accurate.


The police are claiming that the altercation started because of him attacking the officer in his car and trying to take the gun. I don't think the police are trying to deny that he was also shot several feet away from the car with his back turned.

What?
If the bullet hole is big on the front side of a person and little on the back side of a person,
That person was shot in the back.

Are you saying the Police shot a human being in the back?
Was that person a direct threat to another person?

Was it a miss?
Misses happen.

If a person misses that Badly, a class may be in order.
And; A Desk Job.

Somewhere deep in my memory, there was a policy of No More Active Duty after one's weapon had been used against another human being.
i think it is a darned good rule.

It allows a person to walk into his or her Bosses Office and surrender the Fire Arm.
"Sir; I want a less active Job."

"Do I Have To Shoot Someone??"
Spoiler:
"How about You?"

Did I ever tell you about David.
What Hell David went though.

David was in The Army.
David umm. I don't know what David did to The First Guy.

Who Knows?
If there was a Fucked Up duty or a Fucked Up station, David got it.

He ended up way the Fuck and Gone in Vietnam.
A prisoner or war? Sort of.

They Fucked Up and Lost his PaperWork.
He finely used his weapon.

Really sad story.
Sort of, Apocalypse Now meets Forest Gump meets McGiver.
Men and Women with Mechanical Skill are often respected by All Sides.

David was.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:39 pm UTC

The name of the shooting officer has apparently been released, FWIW.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:57 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:The name of the shooting officer has apparently been released, FWIW.

For What It's Worth.
You made me Google.

Why?
You could write, "For what it's worth, the Offending Officer's name has been released."

It's not worth much.
Is it?

Do You know him?
Did You know the Victim?

No?
Me, neither.

Maybe, it is not any of our business.
What is?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
JBJ
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:20 pm UTC
Location: a point or extent in space

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby JBJ » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:05 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:It's worth pointing out as well that the dash-cam footage has yet to be released by the police. If it supported there case, I suspect they'd have been quicker to do so.

There is no dash-cam video. link
So, you sacked the cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker?
The second cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker I've sacked since the sixth sitting sheet slitter got sick.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10493
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:37 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:The name of the shooting officer has apparently been released, FWIW.



Already mentioned that. Officer Darren Wilson.

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:26 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:It's worth pointing out as well that the dash-cam footage has yet to be released by the police. If it supported there case, I suspect they'd have been quicker to do so.

There is no dash-cam video. link


Fair enough. The dashcam thing was something I'd heard elsewhere. I'll make sure to correct that in future.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

cphite
Posts: 1360
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby cphite » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:45 pm UTC

Red Hal wrote:No-fly zone for police helicopters, journalists turned away or targeted by police (prior to state police becoming involved). Cphite, the balance of probabilities is currently not on the side you are defending, though whether it will end up there I don't know.


I'm not defending the police. I said more than once in my post that I believe they've used force that was both excessive and overly broad. I was simply pointing out that many of the "facts" regarding both the shooting, and the subsequent riots, are not clear.

There was an eye-witness who claims that Michael Brown was shot with his hands in the air; but if that's the same guy who was with Michael Brown when he allegedly robbed a convenience store, his testimony is suspect at best. The point is, we don't know. So all of the arguments that start with "the police shot an unarmed man with his hands up" and those that start with "Michael Brown tried to disarm the cop" are, at this point, just speculation. Until we know the facts.

Regarding the riots, the latest information I've seen suggests that the protests started peacefully but then people started looting; and that this is what prompted the police response. Again, we don't know for sure; there are claims that the police crackdown started first.

Either way, I believe the amount of force used has been wildly excessive. And more generally, crowd control should not involve armored vehicles and fully automatic rifles. The fact that they showed up that way only added to the problem, in my opinion.

Right now the only facts are that an unarmed person is now dead, shot by an armed police officer under uncertain circumstances, and eye-witnesses claim the person who was shot was walking away with their hands-up. That should be readily verifiable, then we can see which version of events is supported.


Last I heard there was no dashboard cam.

This is another reason why, in my opinion, police officers should be required to wear recording (both audio and video) devices at all times when on duty.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10221
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:57 pm UTC

It seems the people of Fergeson want to have a say.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/opinion/b ... index.html
It's like something out of the Civil Rights Movement.

What??
Fifty years late?

If the discussion turns into a discussion of Race, it might be less useful than a discussion of Police Protocol and Staffing/Training Procedures.

(shrug) Ferguson.
A world away from the rest of the US?

An Island unto it's self?
If they solve the Ferguson problem will it solve a larger systemic problem?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3652
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:37 pm UTC

cphite wrote:There was an eye-witness who claims that Michael Brown was shot with his hands in the air; but if that's the same guy who was with Michael Brown when he allegedly robbed a convenience store, his testimony is suspect at best. The point is, we don't know. So all of the arguments that start with "the police shot an unarmed man with his hands up" and those that start with "Michael Brown tried to disarm the cop" are, at this point, just speculation. Until we know the facts.


I've seen at least three eyewitness accounts online claiming that he was walking away with hands up. The police officer is the only eyewitness who claimed that he was trying to disarm the cop and, for the reasons you give above, his evidence is suspect.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
Coyne
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:07 am UTC
Location: Orlando, Florida
Contact:

Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:19 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
cphite wrote:There was an eye-witness who claims that Michael Brown was shot with his hands in the air; but if that's the same guy who was with Michael Brown when he allegedly robbed a convenience store, his testimony is suspect at best. The point is, we don't know. So all of the arguments that start with "the police shot an unarmed man with his hands up" and those that start with "Michael Brown tried to disarm the cop" are, at this point, just speculation. Until we know the facts.


I've seen at least three eyewitness accounts online claiming that he was walking away with hands up. The police officer is the only eyewitness who claimed that he was trying to disarm the cop and, for the reasons you give above, his evidence is suspect.


Actually, the three eyewitness accounts (Dorian Johnson, the man walking with him; Piaget Crenshaw; and Tiffany Mitchell) all stated that he had turned (facing the officer) and had his hands up when the final shots were fired. See Wikipedia Shooting of Michael Brown, witness accounts section.

Dorian Johnson's account is very interesting; it sounds very detailed for a made up story. Of course, you know how that is, some people are creative, to say the least; and there is a false note: "At that point, the officer, still in his car, grabbed Brown through the open window around the neck." That seems to me to be hard to do: Someone sitting in a car, reaching out through the window to a tall standing person (even standing close to the car), grasping him around the neck and pulling him down...seems unlikely. It actually suggests that Brown bent down, which would support the officer's story that Brown attacked him in the car.

(The video of the convenience store robbery shows Brown as tall, large man.)

If Brown really did attack the officer, fleeing felon rules may justify the officer shooting while Brown was fleeing.

But that the three witnesses all agree as to the culmination seems to me to be very damning. If he turned, raised his hands, and surrendered, fleeing felon would not apply, making it a murder.

Such a lovely tangle; video really would have been nice.
In all fairness...


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DaBigCheez and 11 guests