Police misbehavior thread

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Coyne
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:18 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Ok, that term really needs to be updated. Aside from the fact that "gypsy" itself is derogatory, how would you feel if cops that took bribes were called "jew cops"? Or lazy cops were called "nword cops". Or alcoholic cops were called "McCops". Etc.

I looked around and the best I could come up with is "transient cop".

There are a lot of words that relate to someone "shiftless" who goes from place-to-place: Itinerant, vagrant, vagabond, bum, etc; but they all carry connotation that doesn't really fit what we're trying to say. It's like that joke in a Pat McManus book, where someone says something like, "Well, he might have been a thief, con man, and arsonist, but I'll tell you this: He was a good worker." We don't have words for someone who gets booted from place to place because they're found to be substandard or even malfeasant; only words for people that bounce around because they're "too lazy to get a job."

We need more words.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:54 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Aside from the fact that "gypsy" itself is derogatory

Huh what? Never heard of that before? As far as I know, many Romani in fact describe themselves as gypsy.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:40 am UTC

Well, using gypsy as an insult is certainly derogatory.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:23 am UTC

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... er-2930638

Police act up within their abilities and training.
Maybe, requiring Piano would help.

Hey! They made me take Piano!
It hurt. It made me a better person.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby PolakoVoador » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Ok, that term really needs to be updated. Aside from the fact that "gypsy" itself is derogatory, how would you feel if cops that took bribes were called "jew cops"? Or lazy cops were called "nword cops". Or alcoholic cops were called "McCops". Etc.


Ok, I'm sorry, I'm not from the USA so my views on the following may be controversial: I find it very odd, to say the least, how nigger is so often reduced to n-word. If you're in a context where "strong language" isn't appropriate, say, a TV show, I can sort of understand it. I don't think this forum qualifies as such an environment.

In my opinion, refusing to say a word even when you are talking about said word just make it worse. Sorry about the rant.

PS: CorruptUser, that's not specific for you, it's about a trend I notice from lots of Americans, and your post just reminded me of it.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby induction » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:51 pm UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Ok, that term really needs to be updated. Aside from the fact that "gypsy" itself is derogatory, how would you feel if cops that took bribes were called "jew cops"? Or lazy cops were called "nword cops". Or alcoholic cops were called "McCops". Etc.


Ok, I'm sorry, I'm not from the USA so my views on the following may be controversial: I find it very odd, to say the least, how nigger is so often reduced to n-word. If you're in a context where "strong language" isn't appropriate, say, a TV show, I can sort of understand it. I don't think this forum qualifies as such an environment.

In my opinion, refusing to say a word even when you are talking about said word just make it worse. Sorry about the rant.

PS: CorruptUser, that's not specific for you, it's about a trend I notice from lots of Americans, and your post just reminded me of it.


"Strong language" isn't the problem here. Many people will curse but won't use that word. "That motherfucker just said the N-word!"

It's simple self-preservation. That word taps into tension over a history of racial imbalance, and any white person who uses that word, even as part of a quote, can face some seriously negative repercussions. Conditioning is hard to fight. In this case, it's not really worth trying.

Hell, even using words that sound similar but are not related can have bad consequences, including termination of employment.

In 1989 at the University of Connecticut, several guys were hospitalized after being severely beaten for singing a song about Heidegger. (Sorry I don't have a citation. I remember it because I was there.)

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:07 pm UTC

Here's a reason to begin all conversations with "I do not consent to any searches."
reason wrote:Last week Annadel Cruz and Alexander Bernstein were released from Lehigh County Prison in Allentown, Pennsylvania, where they had been detained for a month after being arrested for possession of soap. A state trooper claimed a field test indicated that the homemade soap, which he found in the trunk of the car Cruz was driving, contained cocaine. Laboratory tests showed it was just soap, which is what Cruz had said all along.

Remember, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear... as long as you don't mind spending a month in prison.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:Here's a reason to begin all conversations with "I do not consent to any searches."
Would it have mattered in this case? The cop smelled marijuana, which if I'm not mistaken already constitutes probably cause for a search (legally, not morally, obviously), and the woman in question even admitted to marijuana use (why anybody would do that boggles the mind).


induction wrote:In 1989 at the University of Connecticut, several guys were hospitalized after being severely beaten for singing a song about Heidegger. (Sorry I don't have a citation. I remember it because I was there.)

Huh? Are you saying people mistook 'Heidegger' for 'nigger'? Those two words aren't remotely similar, hey don't even have the same number of syllables. Or am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say here?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby induction » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

When questioned, they said they thought the other guys were saying 'Hey nigger'.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby davidstarlingm » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:56 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:Here's a reason to begin all conversations with "I do not consent to any searches."
Would it have mattered in this case? The cop smelled marijuana, which if I'm not mistaken already constitutes probably cause for a search (legally, not morally, obviously), and the woman in question even admitted to marijuana use (why anybody would do that boggles the mind).

Because of the misbegotten belief that compliance and admission of guilt will be seen as respectful and thus lead to leniency.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Grop » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

It is crazy that someone can be jailed at all for having suspicious stuff in their car.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:01 am UTC

Grop wrote:It is crazy that someone can be jailed at all for having suspicious stuff in their car.

They weren't: They were jailed for having drugs. (As the cops claimed without doubt.)

It is crazy that the cops and prosecution can lock someone up and then take a month to get around to confirming that soap flakes aren't drugs after all. Especially since one of those portable tests would have shown otherwise.

In other news, we now have a story of a woman being cavity searched for drugs. Happened before I guess, so maybe the other story was part II.
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:38 am UTC

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/307 ... s-charges-
The article is written as if this is a very rare occurrence.
I disagree with that point of view.

I have been told stories by both men and women about Police using, stealing and selling lots and lots of Pot.
What may be unusual about the event in the article is that this one guy was working alone.

Gangs do not take kindly to independent operators. right?
Who can Play the FBI like a fiddle?

oh... think... ummm. who?
Informants? ok. that makes sense.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:36 pm UTC

Members of the public are reminded that a criminal complaint contains only allegations. The defendant is presumed innocent of the charges and it will be the government's burden to prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial.


I think that they probably only wrote that because the defendant is a cop.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:22 am UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
Members of the public are reminded that a criminal complaint contains only allegations. The defendant is presumed innocent of the charges and it will be the government's burden to prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt at trial.


I think that they probably only wrote that because the defendant is a cop.


It's one of the two standard boiler plates; they use this one for rich people and politicians, as well as cops..

The other one is for everyone else and goes something like: "Guilty! Guilty! Otherwise the depraved degenerate wouldn't have been arrested!"
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:44 pm UTC

http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/31/pa-st ... child-enda

Off duty police officer pepper sprays girlfriend's son for not getting up to go to school. To me, this is a prime example of a prevalent attitude of police officers: pepper spray is a tool to force people to cooperate, not a weapon.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby pkcommando » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/31/pa-state-trooper-charged-with-child-enda

Off duty police officer pepper sprays girlfriend's son for not getting up to go to school. To me, this is a prime example of a prevalent attitude of police officers: pepper spray is a tool to force people to cooperate, not a weapon.


Police said that the boy knew he had been pepper-sprayed because Boatright had pepper-sprayed him before.

Whaaaaaaaat? I can't find who initiated the charges being filed, but I hope the mom was at the forefront.

From the NY Daily News version of the story:
Boatright said he did discharge the spray, but was aiming at a pair of cats on an enclosed porch at the home..

Yeah, that's not really making him look any better.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:07 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/31/pa-state-trooper-charged-with-child-enda

Off duty police officer pepper sprays girlfriend's son for not getting up to go to school. To me, this is a prime example of a prevalent attitude of police officers: pepper spray is a tool to force people to cooperate, not a weapon.


Ya. There's no way to frame that as anything else. Now, pepper spray isn't as bad as shooting someone, sure, but that's...still not an ok use for it.

And the "I meant to spray the cats" just means he's an idiot in addition to being cruel. Terrible defense. I feel sorry for his lawyer. Can you imagine the conversations?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:03 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/31/pa-state-trooper-charged-with-child-enda

Off duty police officer pepper sprays girlfriend's son for not getting up to go to school. To me, this is a prime example of a prevalent attitude of police officers: pepper spray is a tool to force people to cooperate, not a weapon.

Yes. Pepper Spray is a Weapon.
Did you ever have Pepper Spray?

I did. I had the little personal spray.
It was a keychain toy.

I had the Large Size Oven Cleaner, too.
I did not use it. I thought about it.

It is a great deal like having a gun.
Did that Officer think he was doing everyone a favor by not shooting the child?

How old was the child? An officer might be used to people doing what he says to do. Or, else.
On the lighter side. Who, as a responsible adult, would Never be tempted?
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:04 am UTC

The whole point of less lethal weapons was that they'd replace firearms, not be used in addition to firearms.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:18 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:The whole point of less lethal weapons was that they'd replace firearms, not be used in addition to firearms.

Well?...He did not shoot the kid.
He pepper sprayed the kid.

What may be important to the rest of us about that story is
The Police are not exhibiting self control.

Not on the job. Not at home.
Is this a deviant behavior or acceptable behavior?

I have known people that had water thrown onto them.
Young people will refuse to get out of bed when they are too large to carry.

Some cold water is one answer. Pepper spray is a different answer.
Some people will throw main breaker on their way out to work.

Some people are lucky.
When some people don't feel like getting out of bed, it is ok.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:41 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:The whole point of less lethal weapons was that they'd replace firearms, not be used in addition to firearms.


Indeed...and using a taser instead of a firearm, when possible, does seem hard to argue with. However, it seems that the acceptable use for them invariably broadens far past where the firearm is accepted. It's worrying, for sure.

I considered mounting an underslung taser on my AR as a way to have an available non-lethal option. I wonder if explicitly coupling the weapons like that would reinforce the idea that drawing them is serious business, or if the casual attitude about using tasers, etc would seep over to the use of the firearm.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby omgryebread » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:41 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:The whole point of less lethal weapons was that they'd replace firearms, not be used in addition to firearms.


Indeed...and using a taser instead of a firearm, when possible, does seem hard to argue with. However, it seems that the acceptable use for them invariably broadens far past where the firearm is accepted. It's worrying, for sure.

I considered mounting an underslung taser on my AR as a way to have an available non-lethal option. I wonder if explicitly coupling the weapons like that would reinforce the idea that drawing them is serious business, or if the casual attitude about using tasers, etc would seep over to the use of the firearm.
I like the idea of making non-lethal weapons more serious, but coupling them to firearms means that situations which legitimately call for non-lethal weapons would now have guns involved. A seriously disruptive but non-dangerous protest doesn't need police brandishing guns, but pepper spray or a taser might have a legitimate use there.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:12 pm UTC

I see them as more of an alternative to batons; we just need to teach them appropriate use. Instead of beating a suspect with a baton, torture them with paper spray and tasers. If you then lock them up for a couple of days for resisting assault arrest, the use of the torture is significantly more difficult to prove.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:36 pm UTC

[quote="omgryebreadI like the idea of making non-lethal weapons more serious, but coupling them to firearms means that situations which legitimately call for non-lethal weapons would now have guns involved. A seriously disruptive but non-dangerous protest doesn't need police brandishing guns, but pepper spray or a taser might have a legitimate use there.[/quote]

I don't know that it does have a legitimate use there. Use of them as compliance tools is worrying to me. If an officer is not justified in drawing a gun, I don't think they should be pulling a taser.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Spambot5546 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:14 pm UTC

"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:08 pm UTC

Some interesting points (even if I'm not American), but couldn't they have just used plain text?

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:13 am UTC

A musician's flutes were destroyed by TSA officials, on the grounds that they were "agricultural products".

This seems to be the applicable policy. I don't see how the flutes pictured here could possibly be considered "capable of propagation" or that they could be "intended for garden or nursery use"; none of the other rules seems to apply even remotely. (The referenced manual table isn't the right one but I dug around and the rules summarized above appear to apply; requiring no more than "inspect and release".)

But the first rule of TSA is, "TSA is always RIGHT." If there's a question, see the first rule. (So there!)
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:38 am UTC

And if no one complains, "no one is complaining so we must not have done anything wrong!".

And if people complain but no punishment is administered, "obviously the complainer was wrong!".

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:06 am UTC

Coyne wrote:A musician's flutes were destroyed by TSA officials, on the grounds that they were "agricultural products".

This seems to be the applicable policy. I don't see how the flutes pictured here could possibly be considered "capable of propagation" or that they could be "intended for garden or nursery use"; none of the other rules seems to apply even remotely. (The referenced manual table isn't the right one but I dug around and the rules summarized above appear to apply; requiring no more than "inspect and release".)

But the first rule of TSA is, "TSA is always RIGHT." If there's a question, see the first rule. (So there!)

That is tragic.
I hope he gets new flutes.

The Homeland Guys did not wreck my flute.
The stupid Dog did. I miss it none the less.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Coyne » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:05 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:And if no one complains, "no one is complaining so we must not have done anything wrong!".

And if people complain but no punishment is administered, "obviously the complainer was wrong!".


And if punishment is administered, it is in the form of taxpayer money won in a lawsuit: "Obviously we were still right and the complainer is a gold-digger!"

addams wrote:I hope he gets new flutes.


The first link I provided describes how he has to make his own flutes, with reeds now almost unavailable, how he's spent most of his life doing that, and each one is unique in terms of the sound it produces, with the sound getting better over time. Basically, the flutes are irreplaceable. TSA destroyed his life's work and occupation along with the flutes, in one senseless authoritarian fit.

It is particularly evil because, apparently, Customs and Border Patrol held him up for hours over some nonsense or other, until he was basically in tears anyway. Naturally, since he was detained he couldn't claim his bags. And since the TSA and CBP couldn't possibly be bothered to make a connection between such simple events, TSA treated the bags as unclaimed, which triggered a search...
In all fairness...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:13 am UTC

Ret cop shoots person for texting in theater. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2-people-shot-tampa-area-movie-theater-cops-article-1.1578161

He did ask several times first, tho. Just saying.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Grop » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:41 am UTC

This guy should be texted for shooting in theater.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Elvish Pillager » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:52 am UTC

"mistake"... "rise to something like this"... Wow, if I was writing a textbook entry on victim-blaming, I couldn't ask for a better example.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Diadem » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:30 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Ret cop shoots person for texting in theater. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2-people-shot-tampa-area-movie-theater-cops-article-1.1578161

He did ask several times first, tho. Just saying.

Not sure that falls under police misbehavior, since it was a retired cop, and he seems to have been arrested and charged.

Also, what's up wit putting a page-filling picture after every 2 lines of text? Some pictures with an article can be nice, but they are dialing it up to 11.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:54 pm UTC

Retired cops still usually have special weapon carrying privileges, etc.

But yeah, the page design is frigging horrible.

Edit: It appears as if he repeatedly attempted to discuss the cell phone use with the shot person, left to speak to a manager, and was confronted by the texter upon returning. Now, that still doesn't justify it, but if violence was used during the confrontation by the texter, then perhaps this tale is much less than it has been made out to be.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby WilliamLehnsherr » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:25 am UTC

I read that story here and it said that "The cinema has a policy of not allowing weapons in the auditorium". I find it funny that this is a policy. As an Australian, the idea that anyone (who doesn't intend to commit a crime) would think to take a weapon into a cinema seems ridiculous.

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby Thesh » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:28 am UTC

Well, after the Aurora, CO movie theater shooting, people decided it was a good idea to carry guns into theaters, because having a dozen panicky, minimally trained people opening fire in a crowded, dark room is going to be a good thing.
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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:44 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Retired cops still usually have special weapon carrying privileges, etc.


A month or two ago, I saw a retired cop showing off his ammunition to a store owner. So I believe you...

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Re: Police misbehavior thread

Postby addams » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:05 am UTC

Police Misbehavior?

Cranky Old Man Behavior.
Fucking Cranky Old Men.

I have not one doubt the man that died was less than polite, and considerate.
I do not see it as a case of, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Shooting a man is not a measured and proper responds to texting.
Is it a Police problem? Yes.

The Police are a part of the culture of the US.
Some of the men and women of this nation are calm,
intelligent persons with well developed self control.

Many Are Not!
Why? Because the TV tells the FOX bunch they don't need to take shit off people.
They don't need to pay taxes. And; They are told they know every-fucking-thing.

That man lived on Tax money for more than twenty years After he retired.
His victim may have been snotty. This is one way to teach manners.

Personally; I think that is a bad way to teach manners.
How does a culture teach manners?

In the past I was told most manners are learned by watching and listening to other people.
TV is very good at conveying behavioral information and providing role models.

Cranky Old Bastards are not good role models.
Cranky Old Bastards are being told they are the Warriors of all that is Right and Good.

I talk to some of those Cranky Old Bastards.
You might be surprised how on edge some of those Old Guys are.

Why do you think they think like that?
Where did they hear it?

Our Old are like our Young.
We have a responsibility to listen to them and ask,
"Where the fuck did he hear a thing like that?"

I hear this stuff!

At seventy, in his mind he is defending all that is Right and Good.
Our People are shooting one another over minor social slights!

That is a Problem.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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