Riots in Tunisia

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7604
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Riots in Tunisia

Postby Zamfir » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:17 am UTC

Hadn't seen it mentioned here yet. There are massive riots in Tunisia, and after some deadly violence from the government they are only growing in size and might well lead to the collapse of the regime.

Other countries in North-Africa and the Middle-East currently have similar riots, and quite some countries face the same problems as Tunisia: autocratic regimes, massive unemployment, very young populations, rising food prices. If Ben Ali in Tunisia falls, it might inspire similar revolutions in other countries.

These article are summaries in English:

http://www.france24.com/en/20110113-tunisia-president-ben-ali-test-legitimacy-unrest-human-rights
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2011/0113/Tunisia-protesters-defy-curfew-in-capital

An slightly older opinion piece (about the possible effects on other countries):
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/12/20101231161958792947.html

Al-jazeera seems to have the most reporting anyway, here on the latest concessions from the government and the response to them:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/01/201111441336340951.html

Eowiel
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:57 pm UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Eowiel » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:44 pm UTC

It's sobering to realise that so many people, I suppose mostly Europeans, go on holiday in Tunisia and that most had, until now, no idea there were any major issues with the regime in the country (including myself).

It shows how selective we are in our outrage against dictators. As long as they don't directly conflict with any western interest, it seems we don't really care.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7604
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Zamfir » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:25 pm UTC

Eowiel wrote:It shows how selective we are in our outrage against dictators. As long as they don't directly conflict with any western interest, it seems we don't really care.

Well, everything is relative. Algeria is in constant civil war, and the other countries in the region are at least as bad or worse dictatorships than Tunisia. Morocco, Libya, Egypt, let alone the Middle East.

Civil war can easily end up worse than the worst dictatorships (look at Iraq). So if a regime is not too bad there is something to say in favour of gentle pushes towards democracy, without threatening the equilibrium too much.

But on the other hand, we in the West have pretty universally a strong antipathy against Islamic populist groups. I suspect we therefore tend to favour secular dictators too much, if the alternative looks more Islamic. Look how uncomfortable Europe is with even the very mild, very democratic Islamists of Turkey.

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3998
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Dauric » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:37 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:Well, everything is relative. Algeria is in constant civil war, and the other countries in the region are at least as bad or worse dictatorships than Tunisia. Morocco, Libya, Egypt, let alone the Middle East.


As far as the media coverage I think that two phenomenon account for our lack of coverage: First being some manifestation of Dunbar's Number, in that there's only so many people we can really care about before our brains just can't conceive of the people on TV in anything more than abstract terms, and generally those people are a lot closer geographically to us, often sharing the same issues we do with our own governments, cultural issues, religious scandals, natural disasters, etc.

The other phenomenon is "Topic Fatigue". If Algeria is -always- in a state of civil war it stops being news that they're in a state of civil war. It might be news when they stop being in civil war, but after a certain point it becomes little more than an exercise in bloody-mindedness to remind everyone that Algeria is still at civil war.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

User avatar
the_bandersnatch
Actually not so frumious.
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:46 am UTC
Location: on a bed in a room inside a TV in a hotel room in a hotel on a Monopoly board

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby the_bandersnatch » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:16 pm UTC

Well, it looks to be getting worse, Ben Ali has dismissed parliament and has ordered a new election within 6 months:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12195025
In girum imus nocte, et consumimur igni

User avatar
kingofdreams
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:31 pm UTC
Location: An avatar making factory

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby kingofdreams » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:49 pm UTC

Wow, two president since independence. Thats good stuff.
Picard- I shall appoint you my executive officer in charge of radishes

User avatar
charolastra
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:37 pm UTC
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby charolastra » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:29 pm UTC

The revolution will not be televised.

I've been following this for a few weeks now. It's taken until very recently for anything but social media networks and really underground news to pick up on it.

Eyat
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:48 pm UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Eyat » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:28 pm UTC

charolastra wrote:The revolution will not be televised.

I've been following this for a few weeks now. It's taken until very recently for anything but social media networks and really underground news to pick up on it.



I saw it on CNN at lunch so someone took notice. It said that the president has left the country and the PM has taken over. Any chance he was fairly elected?

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10550
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

Yesterday he (whatever the President's name is) said he would resign in 2014. Guess that didn't assuage the situation.

User avatar
cjmcjmcjmcjm
Posts: 1158
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 am UTC
Location: Anywhere the internet is strong

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:14 pm UTC

According to some reports, the president left the country over the weekend, or so I saw on TV
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark

DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7604
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Zamfir » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:23 pm UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:According to some reports, the president left the country over the weekend, or so I saw on TV

Yes, he did. We'll see how the events from play on. The situation in the Ukraine a few years ago seemed somewhat similar, but I am not sure that changed a lot in the long run instead of just replacing one group of elites by another.

HungryHobo
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:01 am UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby HungryHobo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:55 pm UTC

I've heard claims that wikileaks was part of the spark for this helping make public the excesses and corruption .

http://www.businessinsider.com/tunisia-wikileaks-2011-1
Give a man a fish, he owes you one fish. Teach a man to fish, you give up your monopoly on fisheries.

User avatar
Deep_Thought
Posts: 857
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:58 pm UTC
Location: North of the River

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Deep_Thought » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:54 pm UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:According to some reports, the president left the country over the weekend, or so I saw on TV


And his wife took 1.5 tonnes of gold with her :shock: http://www.businessinsider.com/leila-trabelsi-gold-2011-1 :shock:

I'm having slight trouble believing this story right now for logistical reasons. How on Earth do you ship that much gold at short notice? Just take it on the plane with you? What kind of bank takes delivery of it? And more importantly, where the hell do you get the testicular fortitude to walk into a bank and ask/demand that they hand it over in the first place?

The world never ceases to amaze...

EDIT: Quote had been messed up and claimed Zamfir said it, now fixed

Game_boy
Posts: 1314
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:33 pm UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Game_boy » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:44 pm UTC

I can't decide whether it's good that the government has completely given in on media freedom, political prisoners and holding free elections soon, or bad that the pressure hasn't been enough to remove the ruling party.

It's still a lot, lot better than the outcome in Iran (or Myanmar a few years ago).
The Reaper wrote:Evolution is a really really really long run-on sentence.

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3998
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Dauric » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:50 pm UTC

Game_boy wrote:I can't decide whether it's good that the government has completely given in on media freedom, political prisoners and holding free elections soon, or bad that the pressure hasn't been enough to remove the ruling party.

It's still a lot, lot better than the outcome in Iran (or Myanmar a few years ago).


Problem with 'removing the ruling party' is that in most corrupt systems with so-called "Political Parties", in order to be part of the government -at all- you have to belong to the prevalent political organization. The Communists in the Soviet Union and the Ba'ath party in Iraq. If the entire "Party" is removed you're not just removing the party, but all the people who joined the party simply to pursue their chosen vocations. Now you've ousted the qualified instructors, administrators, military personnel, etc. and left them without jobs.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

Game_boy
Posts: 1314
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:33 pm UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Game_boy » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:09 pm UTC

Yeah, I think I agree. Complete removal of the government would cause worse instability.

As long as the 'new' government keep those promises, it should be OK. For their part, the people need to halt protesting and wait to see if it's better.
The Reaper wrote:Evolution is a really really really long run-on sentence.

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby sourmìlk » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:46 pm UTC

Game_boy wrote:As long as the 'new' government keep those promises, it should be OK.


I lol'd
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

jfoobar
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:23 am UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby jfoobar » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:24 am UTC

Boston.com's The Big Picture has some excellent photographs from Tunisia up:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/01/an_uprising_in_tunisia.html

Also, first post. *waves*

bittyx
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:10 pm UTC
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby bittyx » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:57 pm UTC

Deep_Thought wrote:
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:According to some reports, the president left the country over the weekend, or so I saw on TV


And his wife took 1.5 tonnes of gold with her :shock: http://www.businessinsider.com/leila-trabelsi-gold-2011-1 :shock:

I'm having slight trouble believing this story right now for logistical reasons. How on Earth do you ship that much gold at short notice? Just take it on the plane with you? What kind of bank takes delivery of it? And more importantly, where the hell do you get the testicular fortitude to walk into a bank and ask/demand that they hand it over in the first place?

The world never ceases to amaze...

EDIT: Quote had been messed up and claimed Zamfir said it, now fixed


Apparently, the former president intervened, ordering the bank to hand his wife the 1.5 tonnes of gold, which she reportedly transported to Saudi Arabia by plane.

Here's one link to that story.

User avatar
aleflamedyud
wants your cookies
Posts: 3307
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:50 pm UTC
Location: The Central Bureaucracy

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby aleflamedyud » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:26 am UTC

So isn't it turning out that Tunisia's revolution is tilting towards a liberal democracy? This is good news, no?
"With kindness comes naïveté. Courage becomes foolhardiness. And dedication has no reward. If you can't accept any of that, you are not fit to be a graduate student."

Sharlos
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:26 am UTC
Location: Straya

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Sharlos » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:25 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:So isn't it turning out that Tunisia's revolution is tilting towards a liberal democracy? This is good news, no?

One can hope, having a liberal democracy that is also a largely Islamic would be a positive example to other countries in the region who see liberal democracy as a western thing.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7604
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Zamfir » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:54 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:So isn't it turning out that Tunisia's revolution is tilting towards a liberal democracy? This is good news, no?

Yeah, perhaps. But it will take some years before we can know for sure. Most people with power and influence in the country are used to dealing with a non-democratic corrupt system, willing to do so, and often probably depending on it too. That means there is now room at the top for someone new. Elections might put some new people in power, but that is only step one in a long and uncertain process.

User avatar
Zamfir
I built a novelty castle, the irony was lost on some.
Posts: 7604
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 pm UTC
Location: Nederland

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Zamfir » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:28 am UTC

Update; riots in egypt, met with some violence. Inspired by Tunesia, but they might not have the same staying power.

User avatar
the_bandersnatch
Actually not so frumious.
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:46 am UTC
Location: on a bed in a room inside a TV in a hotel room in a hotel on a Monopoly board

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby the_bandersnatch » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:52 am UTC

Zamfir wrote:Update; riots in egypt, met with some violence. Inspired by Tunesia, but they might not have the same staying power.


See http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=67965
In girum imus nocte, et consumimur igni

nitePhyyre
Posts: 1280
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:31 am UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby nitePhyyre » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:09 pm UTC

So apparently, members of the ousted ruling family fled to Canada.

They are staying at the hotel where I am having my wedding later this year.... aawwwkward.....
sourmìlk wrote:Monopolies are not when a single company controls the market for a single product.

You don't become great by trying to be great. You become great by wanting to do something, and then doing it so hard you become great in the process.

Chen
Posts: 5581
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby Chen » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:20 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:So apparently, members of the ousted ruling family fled to Canada.

They are staying at the hotel where I am having my wedding later this year.... aawwwkward.....


Its ok Harper and some other politicians said they aren't welcome.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/fam ... story.html

Of course the process of getting rid of them apparently will take several months. But I guess the principle still stands...

The Reaper
Posts: 4008
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Contact:

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby The Reaper » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:22 pm UTC

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/afric ... 38302.html
Tunisian authorities have prepared 18 legal cases against former president Zine El Abidine
Ben Ali, including "voluntary manslaughter" and "drug trafficking", the state TAP news agency reported.

The revelation was made by Justice Minister Lazhar Karoui Chebbi in an interview aired on state television on Wednesday, TAP said.

Other charges include "conspiring against the state" and "drug use."

The news agency quoted Chebbi as saying a total of 44 legal cases had been prepared by his ministry against Ben Ali, his family and his inner circle.

Ben Ali fled to Saudi Arabia after he was toppled by mass protests on January 14 after 23 years in power. Several members of his family and security and some of his closest allies were detained shortly after he was forced out.

The caretaker authorities, trying to assert their authority and gain legitimacy in the eyes of protesters who forced the transition, are attacking the vestiges of his long rule.

Chebbi said the Justice Ministry was exploring legal ways to extradite Ben Ali from Saudi Arabia to face trial. He gave no further details.

Tunisia announced on January 26 that it had asked Interpol to help arrest Ben Ali, his wife Leila Trabelsi and other members of the family who fled the country during the uprising.

The interim authorities appointed a new government on March 7 and disbanded the state security apparatus, notorious for human rights abuses under Ben Ali.

The former president's brother, Slah Ben Ali, was arrested on Sunday in the city of Sousse.

User avatar
buddy431
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:21 pm UTC

Re: Riots in Tunisia

Postby buddy431 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:00 am UTC

So Tunisia did hold elections yesterday. Final results are expected tomorrow, but right now it's looking right now like Ennahda (described as a socially centrist, moderate Islamic party) got the most votes, but not a majority. The second largest party will probably be the PDP, the legal opposition party under Ben Ali (described as a secular, center-left party). To be clear, this is not a general election to form a government, but rather an election to create a body to draft a constitution, as well as create a government until the next general elections are held, at this point, do not have a set date.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15438945
Gellert1984 wrote:Also, bomb president CIA al qaeda JFK twin towers jupiter moon martians [s]emtex.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests