Atheist Christmas Advertising

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:14 pm UTC

I'm not using the original definition. I'm using the common definition, which is someone with lower intelligence than average, but not a mentally challenged person. Old definition is someone with IQ bellow 30.
G.v.K wrote:it seems to me quite clear that Newton was a genius at mathematics and an idiot at theology. that's, of course, just my opinion. but i see no logical problem with holding both of those to be true.

You should, seeing how they're complete opposites. I'm unfamiliar with his theological theories, but looking on Wikipedia, it appears he has a whole section about his influence on religious thought. Maybe he was a fellow which you disagree with, but still makes awesome arguments that stump you, even though you heavily disagree with their conclusion. I encounter this with a lot of opinions I disagree with. There will be geniuses who thought Greedo shot first, and geniuses who think Han shot first, and they will battle it on using words and logic my simple mind can't understand. It's pretty presumptuous to call a famous philosopher an idiot simple because he has a different conclusion than you, which I think happens to Kant a lot. It's closed-minded. My rule of thumb is to always keep things in perspective. Always see things from the other side. Don't assume you're inherently better than others for shallow reasons.

But all that's offtopic.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:16 pm UTC

I think the conversation at this point could use this
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:48 pm UTC

Sje: I wouldn't contend that Kant was an idiot, simply that I don't think his ideas were or are of much practical application and to me genius is about finding remarkable solutions to problems... not a state of being brought about by intelligence (Polymaths & Polyhistors are such a thing and as such I have great respect for such individuals, but they are a rare bird).
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby podbaydoor » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:17 am UTC

I think this one was done somewhat tastelessly, which, given its position and time of year make it extremely unfortunate.

I suppose I'm still too angry about religion to be totally level-headed. But when I have to drive down any highway in Missouri and be bombarded with any number of billboards ranging from straight church advertising to virulent tirades against atheism, abortion, sex, Muslims, etcetera, etcetera, I'm inclined to think that the Christians putting them up ought to be able to take a little of what they're dishing out.

"You know it's a myth" is laughably tame compared to fetuses, really.

In before "those Christians don't represent me!" I know that. But the tiresome suggestions about "taste" and "dickishness" come off fairly condescending to an atheist living in the minority in Eagleland. Must we always be polite and inoffensive?
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
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a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby dedalus » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:26 am UTC

Slightly changing the tact of the argument, it's possible to be religious and still be very scientific and smart in other areas, because ultimately religion doesn't have to be the be-all and end-all of your life. For some people it might be, and it can be very important to any given person, but it's not like as soon as you believe in Jesus you become incapable of understanding scientific method.

And when it comes down to it, any scientific reasoning behind religion can only return the result of 'we don't know'. But when it comes down to it, 'we don't know' doesn't really help when the question is 'what should I do with my life,' or 'what is right and wrong'. So ultimately, everyone has to make up their own mind as to what is right and wrong, and that comes down to belief. This is good, and I thoroughly support the idea of people coming to their own conclusions as to what is right and wrong. And I don't have any problems with people coming to the conclusion that 'this is right because there is a god up there, and he says it is right.'

What I do have a problem with is when people try to force their beliefs and morality on each other without reason and/or debate. And we don't see that in religion; the two classic cases being homosexuality and condom use. Here, religious institutions are breeding grounds for harmful indoctrination and infallibility. Ultimately, I can't come up with an absolute argument against 'god said so in the bible' that doesn't end up with just a shouting match of 'ya-huh/nuh-uh'. But that doesn't make it a good argument. And the church has a very definite reason to promote papal infallibility. But that won't make the bible true, any more then editing newspaper arguments make Big Brother a good and generous dictator.

So, I think it is possible to believe in God, or a god(s), and still be a brilliant scientist, philosopher or the etcetera. I also think it's possible to be a perfectly good and admirable person in every way whilst being religious - all you have to do is subject your faith to personal scrutiny; like any other area of your life. But many people don't do this, and most religious institutions have a definite agenda against it. And to this extent, I think the ad hits the nail on the head. It's not saying the whole bible is a myth, just the nativity; and definitely, it's far from historically accurate as it is taught these days. And the second part; during a traditionally religious celebration, above everything, we need to remember to celebrate reason, because religion without a healthy dose of reason is dangerous.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby The Reaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:28 am UTC

I just thought I'd take a moment to remind you all, Big Brother loves you.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Triangle_Man » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:35 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:I just thought I'd take a moment to remind you all, Big Brother loves you.


May I ask what brought this on?
I really should be working right now, but somehow I don't have the energy.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby The Reaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:43 am UTC

Triangle_Man wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I just thought I'd take a moment to remind you all, Big Brother loves you.

May I ask what brought this on?

It was mentioned, and hopefully I'll get credit for past works when the revolution comes.

That being said, IMO people can believe in whatever the shit they want to believe in, that stops right when they start harassing other people about it. So I'm fine with people believing what they want, but the militant religious types, just like the militant atheist types, the problem is the "I'm going to fuck with other people because I want/believe I have to" part.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Rinsaikeru » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:19 am UTC

Somehow atheists get called militant for putting up signs pretty frequently. Not suggesting that is what you meant Reaper, but expressing an atheist opinion politely is as likely to get you called a 'militant atheist' by some theists as any other thing you could do.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Greyarcher » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:29 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:In before "those Christians don't represent me!" I know that. But the tiresome suggestions about "taste" and "dickishness" come off fairly condescending to an atheist living in the minority in Eagleland. Must we always be polite and inoffensive?
I'd go with "polite and offensive" as a general compromise. :) After all, tons of folks will see criticisms and challenges to preciously held beliefs as offensive. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be challenged though.

Because though some folks talk about religious beliefs as personal beliefs, they seem to often end up influencing the realm of public policy. And if the result is supporting questionable policy then I approve of challenging the source.

The Reaper wrote:That being said, IMO people can believe in whatever the shit they want to believe in, that stops right when they start harassing other people about it. So I'm fine with people believing what they want, but the militant religious types, just like the militant atheist types, the problem is the "I'm going to fuck with other people because I want/believe I have to" part.
Well, certainly harassment isn't desirable. But I'm not sure how many Christians can non-hypocritically object to atheists who try and change people's beliefs. Not unless they are willing to denounce the activities of all those Christians who worked at converting people in the past and present day. (And if they justify themselves by saying, "but we're right", that's just begging the question :D)

"Atheist missionary" actually sounds pretty funny. :D I suppose they would "de-convert" people rather than convert them though.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby The Reaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:35 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:Somehow atheists get called militant for putting up signs pretty frequently. Not suggesting that is what you meant Reaper, but expressing an atheist opinion politely is as likely to get you called a 'militant atheist' by some theists as any other thing you could do.

Yea, but you're right, that's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones that do it for the sole sake of pissing off theists. The angsty ones.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby uncivlengr » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:50 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:In before "those Christians don't represent me!" I know that. But the tiresome suggestions about "taste" and "dickishness" come off fairly condescending to an atheist living in the minority in Eagleland. Must we always be polite and inoffensive?
As the old saying goes, your right to express your opinion ends where their fragile worldview begins... or something like that. The "I'm not offended, but you atheists are just a bunch of dicks" Christians don't seem to have much thicker skin than their "statements contrary to my beliefs are offensive!" Christian brethren... they still feel the need to speak out against a simple expression of opinion.

I always keep in mind that any Christian that might be offended by my opinion believes at best that I'm going to be denied an eternity of happiness which is to be afforded to them, and at worst that I'll suffer an eternity of brutal punishment, simply for having that opinion. Why they'd concurrently believe that their personal offense is something with which I need to be concerned is beyond me.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Arancaytar » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:01 am UTC

I always keep in mind that any Christian that might be offended by my opinion believes at best that I'm going to be denied an eternity of happiness which is to be afforded to them, and at worst that I'll suffer an eternity of brutal punishment, simply for having that opinion. Why they'd concurrently believe that their personal offense is something with which I need to be concerned is beyond me.


Since they're so much better than you, clearly their feelings are much more important than yours. It makes perfect theist sense.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby PeterCai » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:18 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:I'm talking about the ones that do it for the sole sake of pissing off theists. The angsty ones.


Examples? I've never known any atheists that are like this.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby The Reaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:27 am UTC

PeterCai wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I'm talking about the ones that do it for the sole sake of pissing off theists. The angsty ones.

Examples? I've never known any atheists that are like this.

Really? They're all over american highschools. :\

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:55 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:
Triangle_Man wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I just thought I'd take a moment to remind you all, Big Brother loves you.

May I ask what brought this on?

It was mentioned, and hopefully I'll get credit for past works when the revolution comes.

What the hell are you talking about? Speak clearly.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby The Reaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:02 am UTC

sje46 wrote:What the hell are you talking about? Speak clearly.
dedalus wrote:But that won't make the bible true, any more then editing newspaper arguments make Big Brother a good and generous dictator.
I was attempting at humor. It made me chuckle, but then again, being my own control and test groups is never good science. :3

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:01 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:
sje46 wrote:What the hell are you talking about? Speak clearly.
dedalus wrote:But that won't make the bible true, any more then editing newspaper arguments make Big Brother a good and generous dictator.
I was attempting at humor. It made me chuckle, but then again, being my own control and test groups is never good science. :3

...what was the humor? Again, speak clearly.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby dedalus » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:04 am UTC

Ummm... Haven't you read 1984 sje? It's not a particularly amazing joke, but yeah.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:47 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:
PeterCai wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I'm talking about the ones that do it for the sole sake of pissing off theists. The angsty ones.
Examples? I've never known any atheists that are like this.
Really? They're all over american highschools. :\
I'm not going to deny the existence of asshole atheists. I'm pretty sure Dawkins is one. That being said : How do you tell the difference between an asshole atheist who's just being a dick versus an atheist who's simply trying to remind folks that not everyone has a belief in a higher power and that they should probably keep that in mind whenever they open their mouths and express sentiments to that effect.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Sharlos » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:05 am UTC

I don't know why people insist on calling Dawkins an asshole, he seems pretty polite and reserved from what I've seen of him.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:22 am UTC

Starting a discussion on religion with the basis being that it's quackery is.. not exactly respectful. There's some quote thing floating around out there, usually attached to agnosticism that I'm going to paraphrase here...
"You know that Ghosts, Witches, Bigfoot, Kidnapping Aliens, Elves, Pixies and the Loch Ness Monster aren't real and think people who believe in them foolish, but when it comes to invisible omnipotent sky people, you have to quietly bow your head at the mysteries of the universe"

It's mostly a matter of respect. Yes, there's lots of people who believe in abso-fucking-stupid things. If you're going to have a discussion with them, you probably shouldn't start with "You're an idiot, and I'll tell you why..."

But yeah, that's why I think he's an ass. A lot of what I've read from him, quotations and the like, all seem to have an undercurrent of "hurr religious people r dum let's throw rocks lol"
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:47 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Starting a discussion on religion with the basis being that it's quackery is.. not exactly respectful.
Why should you be respectful towards it?
SecondTalon wrote:It's mostly a matter of respect. Yes, there's lots of people who believe in abso-fucking-stupid things. If you're going to have a discussion with them, you probably shouldn't start with "You're an idiot, and I'll tell you why..."
He doesn't do that though. He doesn't say "you're an idiot" outright to people he just met. He really doesn't. He treats religious people with respect. He doesn't treat their beliefs with respect...because why would you?

What he does do, however, is call out people on their bullshit. People...apparently including you...automatically assume that because he's blunt means he's disrespectful towards people. He's not. Have you seen his debates, read his books? He has a good temper. He gets upset, but he doesn't just outright insult the religious people themselves. He calls their beliefs stupid while , which is 100% acceptable and awesome. We should question all beliefs, as long as we have evidence to back it up, and we are intellectually honest. Something which Christianity as a whole is not.

SecondTalon wrote:But yeah, that's why I think he's an ass. A lot of what I've read from him, quotations and the like, all seem to have an undercurrent of "hurr religious people r dum let's throw rocks lol"

Well maybe you should actually read some of his books and try to understand him? He doesn't think religious people are stupid...he thinks that humanity has been held captive by religion. Just like how we all know that Scientology is stupid, but we don't call Scientologists stupid...they were taken advantage of. And how do you discourage people from joining a cult like Scientology? How do you get people to leave? You point out the illogic of it, and you do not give it any creedence or respect at all. How do you treat mentally ill people with cognitive therapy? You don't insult the victim...you teach the victim how to fight his captor (the illness). Giving any sort of respect to the religion itself (saying, "I respect your beliefs, but") only reinforces the tolerance of harmful religions. I mean, would you really say that to a person on the fence about joining a cult? "I really don't think you should give live in a commune in Argentina...but I respect your beliefs!"

He's telling it like it is, and is working to solve large problems in the world. Being honest while trying to solve a problem doesn't make you an asshole. Basic Human Decency only enables cults and harmful belief systems.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Brooklynxman » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:57 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Starting a discussion on religion with the basis being that it's quackery is.. not exactly respectful.
Why should you be respectful towards it?


Deliberate troll is deliberate? Or do you honestly not see why refusing to be respectful in a debate about people's most cherished beliefs which billions of people believe is pretty much being an asshat. It is as bad as Christians who refuse to accept atheists and automatically assume they are going to hell.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:05 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Starting a discussion on religion with the basis being that it's quackery is.. not exactly respectful. There's some quote thing floating around out there, usually attached to agnosticism that I'm going to paraphrase here...
"You know that Ghosts, Witches, Bigfoot, Kidnapping Aliens, Elves, Pixies and the Loch Ness Monster aren't real and think people who believe in them foolish, but when it comes to invisible omnipotent sky people, you have to quietly bow your head at the mysteries of the universe"

What's wrong with that? Why should he respect beliefs he feels are harmful to the human race?

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:06 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:
sje46 wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Starting a discussion on religion with the basis being that it's quackery is.. not exactly respectful.
Why should you be respectful towards it?


Deliberate troll is deliberate? Or do you honestly not see why refusing to be respectful in a debate about people's most cherished beliefs which billions of people believe is pretty much being an asshat. It is as bad as Christians who refuse to accept atheists and automatically assume they are going to hell.

I don't troll. Please try not to label me as one, alright?

I didn't say that refusing to be respectful is what you should do. Dawkins is, truly, a very respectful person to the people themselves. I'm saying that you shouldn't enable people's delusions. I don't care how cherished it is...a delusion is a delusion, and is still harmful. Therefore you have to show the person without shaming them how their thought processes are wrong. Just like you do that with a client in therapy, you have to also do that with society in regards to socially shared delusions. You don't shame people, that's a very important point. But the enemy is the delusion, and you show the delusion no respect.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Saurus33 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:49 am UTC

I find it kind of interesting how "militant" atheists just have to say nasty things about religion to be classified as such, compared to Christian militants, who have to blow up abortion clinics and protest funerals. And then there's the militant Muslims, who have to actually kill large numbers of people.

Not to mention the fact that "militant" atheists, like Dawkins, can and have worked with the religious, such as the time Dawkins worked with British Ministers to inform the political leaders there about their unanimous opposition to the teaching of Young-Earth creationism in schools.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:06 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:But yeah, that's why I think he's an ass. A lot of what I've read from him, quotations and the like, all seem to have an undercurrent of "hurr religious people r dum let's throw rocks lol"


Some of it does, a lot of it looks fine to me. Of course the bit that is fine isn't going to undo the bit that isn't though.

In his case though I can sort of see how he got there. He's in a field where he seems to have constantly ended up having
to fight uninformed people with no knowledge of his field, basing their opinions on little but the Bible. It's fine by me
when they believe privately, it's when they start pushing their beliefs in areas where we have spent decades/centuries
on digging up facts and forming strong theories that it gets frustrating.

Saurus33 wrote:Not to mention the fact that "militant" atheists, like Dawkins, can and have worked with the religious, such as the time Dawkins worked with British Ministers to inform the political leaders there about their unanimous opposition to the teaching of Young-Earth creationism in schools.


Thank god the mainstream "eurochristians" are generally fine with science trumping the Bible in cases where they seem to (to some at least) overlap.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby dedalus » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:11 am UTC

sje46 wrote:I didn't say that refusing to be respectful is what you should do. Dawkins is, truly, a very respectful person to the people themselves. I'm saying that you shouldn't enable people's delusions. I don't care how cherished it is...a delusion is a delusion, and is still harmful. Therefore you have to show the person without shaming them how their thought processes are wrong. Just like you do that with a client in therapy, you have to also do that with society in regards to socially shared delusions. You don't shame people, that's a very important point. But the enemy is the delusion, and you show the delusion no respect.

Are you branding the entirety of religion a delusion here? Because that's implying there's definite evidence in theology, and there really isn't...
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby the_bandersnatch » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:19 am UTC

dedalus wrote:Are you branding the entirety of religion a delusion here? Because that's implying there's definite evidence in theology, and there really isn't...


How on earth is branding religion a delusion implying there's evidence in theology?
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:21 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
The Reaper wrote:
Triangle_Man wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I just thought I'd take a moment to remind you all, Big Brother loves you.

May I ask what brought this on?

It was mentioned, and hopefully I'll get credit for past works when the revolution comes.

What the hell are you talking about? Speak clearly.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:23 am UTC

dedalus wrote:
sje46 wrote:I didn't say that refusing to be respectful is what you should do. Dawkins is, truly, a very respectful person to the people themselves. I'm saying that you shouldn't enable people's delusions. I don't care how cherished it is...a delusion is a delusion, and is still harmful. Therefore you have to show the person without shaming them how their thought processes are wrong. Just like you do that with a client in therapy, you have to also do that with society in regards to socially shared delusions. You don't shame people, that's a very important point. But the enemy is the delusion, and you show the delusion no respect.

Are you branding the entirety of religion a delusion here? Because that's implying there's definite evidence in theology, and there really isn't...


A delusion is a belief that satisfies these three criteria:
- certainty (held with absolute conviction)
- incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
- impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

Religion certainly satisfies the first two, and a strong argument can be made that it satisfies the third.

However, the definition of delusion has been re-written to exclude religion: "[redacted]. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture."

So by the modern definition, religion is not a delusion. By the original definition, it is.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby dedalus » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:21 pm UTC

the_bandersnatch wrote:
dedalus wrote:Are you branding the entirety of religion a delusion here? Because that's implying there's definite evidence in theology, and there really isn't...


How on earth is branding religion a delusion implying there's evidence in theology?

I meant more that there was evidence as to the existence of a god one way or another. We have none. A belief is only delusional when there's evidence to the contrary.

@Slyreaper: I debate that. If you're claiming that you have proof the existence of a god is impossible or false, then I'd really like to hear it, because up till now I've never heard an absolute argument, or seen absolute evidence. Secondly, I would think there are plenty of religious people out there who if presented with a compelling argument or proof would change their point of view. So yeah, I don't see how it's a delusion. Young Earth Creationism on the other hand, is. As are many other religious beliefs. But blanket statements of 'all religious people are delusional' is far too broad.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:48 pm UTC

Christianity != deism.
dedalus wrote:I meant more that there was evidence as to the existence of a god one way or another. We have none. A belief is only delusional when there's evidence to the contrary.


>>taking the definition of delusion too literally, and missing my point.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:34 pm UTC

dedalus wrote:@Slyreaper: I debate that. If you're claiming that you have proof the existence of a god is impossible or false, then I'd really like to hear it, because up till now I've never heard an absolute argument, or seen absolute evidence.

Not impossible, but certainly implausible. The universe does not need a God in order to exist, we're always discovering ways in which things in the universe have naturally formed, so why suppose that there is a God? Even the question of "what caused the Big Bang" may be definitively answered eventually. Yes there are gaps in our knowledge, but that doesn't mean you get to fill those gaps with fairy tales.

Secondly, I would think there are plenty of religious people out there who if presented with a compelling argument or proof would change their point of view.

I'm sure, but religion itself is a belief held with absolute conviction by some. By far too many, and by people with far too much power, but that's an argument for another day.

So yeah, I don't see how it's a delusion. Young Earth Creationism on the other hand, is. As are many other religious beliefs. But blanket statements of 'all religious people are delusional' is far too broad.

I suppose you could say not all religious people are delusional, but that religion is itself a delusion. The ones that hold particular religious views without considering the possibility that they're wrong - those are delusional. The ones that hold particular religious views because they were raised in that particular culture and haven't given it much thought (or find it socially inconvenient to voice doubts), those people are not delusional.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby uncivlengr » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:48 pm UTC

This whole discussion of whether or not a person is an "asshat" or respectful is ridiculous - who cares? I certainly don't base my perception of the world on how pleasantly its presented to me, and I don't expect anyone else should, either. If something is true, then it's true, and from time to time we all need a smack in the face to realize it.

People need to get under each others' skin to actually put themselves in a position where they're seriously considering the matter. Having your opinion changed is difficult and uncomfortable, and people don't generally enjoy it. Intentionally avoiding any uncomfortable position might make for an enjoyable time, but it's not going to challenge anyone's opinion - it turns into a round of show and tell. On the other hand, if your views can really stand up to serious abuse (as they should), then there's nothing to be concerned with - then it's your turn to be the one that changes the views of others.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Arancaytar » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:20 pm UTC

dedalus wrote:I meant more that there was evidence as to the existence of a god one way or another. We have none. A belief is only delusional when there's evidence to the contrary.


This guy named Russel has a teapot he wants to sell you. Belief in the absence of even circumstantial evidence is exactly as delusional as belief against contrary evidence.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:23 pm UTC

Arancaytar wrote:
dedalus wrote:I meant more that there was evidence as to the existence of a god one way or another. We have none. A belief is only delusional when there's evidence to the contrary.


This guy named Russel has a teapot he wants to sell you. Belief in the absence of even circumstantial evidence is exactly as delusional as belief against contrary evidence.


Well there's hearsay evidence I suppose.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Le1bn1z » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:15 pm UTC

Normally, I'd be the first to leap down the throat of those who dismiss religious people out of hand as stupid, or religion as quackery.

However, I have to say that this is probably the most vanilla atheist ad I've ever seen. All it does is break the shocking news to the world:

ATHEISTS DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD; CHRISTMAS!

Extra, extra, read all about it.

In a country where its more Atheists than Christians who are marginalised, there's nothing wrong with showing some encouragement and solidarity.

Hell, its not even anti-Christmas. In fact, I find it rather concilliatory. Sure its a myth. Who cares? Its fun, lets enjoy the season. If anything, these ads strike me as hitting a second note of reconcilliation with Christians.

As a Christian, I honestly cannot understand how anyone could be insulted by these very restrained and tasteful ads.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby nowfocus » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:31 pm UTC

How do Christians refer to other religions, if not as myths? I'm pretty sure I hear the term 'Greek Mythology' thrown around a lot, even though that was a proper religion for some time.
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Not. At. All. The Atheist point of view is "Christians were stupid because they believed they knew everything without any scientific justification. Fortunately, we know there is no evidence to support these theories, and in fact there is much evidence against it, so we don't believe in these theories". Athests don't think that its impossible that God exists, and is nice, and is Christian, and sent his son/himself here 2010 years ago, and turned water into wine, and walked on water, and resurrected himself, and went to heaven and (insert things your particular sect believes). We just have no reason to believe thats true other than some incredibly old texts. Its literally impossible to prove false. And because of this, we feel its ridiculous to believe in it, like Russell's teapot.

The ironic thing is that if a God did show up on earth and provide actual evidence that it was omnipotent etc, but he wasn't a god aligned with any particular religion, the Atheists might be the first to start believing. Most religious people would imagine that their religion wasn't disproved (because it can't be), and that this was some sort of test to keep them faithful. So they'd keep going to church/synagogue/mosques.
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