Atheist Christmas Advertising

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Dargon Cophe
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Dargon Cophe » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:55 am UTC

This reminds me of a saying; "God is good", to be finished by an audience, "All the time."
Too bad he's not always good; remember that one time he flooded the earth and killed everyone but a single family out of sheer vanity? Sound good?

Reason is good. Always. You should always attempt to be reasonable, despite the emotional impact of the situation at hand. Being illogical is unlikely to solve anything (without luck).

So, I think we can all agree that a billboard advertising logic and reason is good.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Thirty-one » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:56 am UTC

Steax wrote:Interestingly, the atheists are going against Muslims too in this regard (they believe in Jesus too, just in a different light). I wonder how this ends up.


That should at least make the segment of Christians who complain people always hate on just Christianity happy. :)

Either way, 1 ad from whatever Christian denominations care enough, plus this one from the atheists are not going to matter.
They'll still be outnumbered a million to one by the "(You know it's real?) This season, celebrate stuff! Buy stuff for your loved ones today!" ads.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:17 am UTC

Greyarcher wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Speaking of which, the Catholics responded. Link
Well done, Catholics. I really like how you've placed "Jesus" in contradistinction to "Reason". :lol:


Yeah I thought that was quite funny too. It's like they're saying "You have two options: Jesus or Reason, you can't have both". Which is a message I imagine a lot of hardcore atheists would agree with.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Dargon Cophe » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:20 am UTC

Thirty-one wrote:That should at least make the segment of Christians who complain people always hate on just Christianity happy. :)

Either way, 1 ad from whatever Christian denominations care enough, plus this one from the atheists are not going to matter.
They'll still be outnumbered a million to one by the "(You know it's real?) This season, celebrate stuff! Buy stuff for your loved ones today!" ads.

I buy shit for my friends all the time anyway...well, my girlfriend. Not too many other close friends. It shouldn't be some once-a-year event to do some good in the world.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Lucrece » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:34 am UTC

Celebrating reason doesn't drive someone to gift me an iPhone, so I vote Christmas this round. Silly atheists and their real adherence to principle.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby General_Norris » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:56 am UTC

The thing is, saying that "Religion X is a myth and not reasonable" is kind of a direct attack. It may be a justified attack but it's undeniable that it's an attack.

I also don't like atheism claiming to be logical and reasonable, you can prove that gods don't exist so negating their existence is as wrong as saying they exist.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Soralin » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:07 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Greek gods are easy to disprove, as all you have to do is climb Mount Olympus, shout "Zeus likes to suck the big ones, especially Hades', who's dick is much bigger then Zeus's". When you aren't either immediately killed by lightning or raped by whatever animal Zeus feels like being now, you have proven that Zeus doesn't exist (at no point ever has Zeus shown himself to be able to hold his temper).

Maybe you're at the wrong Mount Olympus. ;)

Oh, and while you're there, if you have the faith of a mustard seed, command Mount Olympus to fly off into the ocean. Or if not, gather together a couple people in the name of Yahweh and ask for it. When it doesn't happen, you've now proven that Yahweh doesn't exist, in the same way(the stories not matching reality). :)

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Greyarcher » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:23 am UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Greek gods are easy to disprove, as all you have to do is climb Mount Olympus, shout "Zeus likes to suck the big ones, especially Hades', who's dick is much bigger then Zeus's". When you aren't either immediately killed by lightning or raped by whatever animal Zeus feels like being now, you have proven that Zeus doesn't exist (at no point ever has Zeus shown himself to be able to hold his temper).
Well, it's not like the gods need to be static. If I wished to make a religious excuse, I could say that the Greek gods grew bored of this world and moseyed on to a new one. Any prophets and miracles are just a couple of them coming back and playing jokes on us. Zeus, as it happens, must have mellowed out over the centuries. :lol:

It is one of the fine features of religion that one can make up plenty of excuses for gods. :D
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Thirty-one » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:32 am UTC

General_Norris wrote:The thing is, saying that "Religion X is a myth and not reasonable" is kind of a direct attack. It may be a justified attack but it's undeniable that it's an attack.

I also don't like atheism claiming to be logical and reasonable, you can't prove that gods don't exist so negating their existence is as wrong as saying they exist.


Saying it isn't reasonable doesn't strike me as that bad. If they make crazy claims, saying they're not reasonable seems fair enough.
And people refer to religions that aren't theirs as myths all the time. It's not an attack as such, they just can't take the, say Norse creation
myth as an example, seriously.

Bold bit added, I assume it was left out on accident.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:32 am UTC

22/7 wrote:Interesting concept. I hadn't really thought of atheists advertising before, but I guess if theists do it....


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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:32 pm UTC

General_Norris wrote:The thing is, saying that "Religion X is a myth and not reasonable" is kind of a direct attack. It may be a justified attack but it's undeniable that it's an attack.

I also don't like atheism claiming to be logical and reasonable, you can prove that gods don't exist so negating their existence is as wrong as saying they exist.

It isn't as wrong. It's wrong to say that there definitely isn't a teapot between Mars and Jupiter, but it isn't as wrong as saying there definitely is one.
Meem1029 wrote:I think the main problem with the ad (for me at least) is that it is saying that no person with reason is a Christian. That is not acceptable to me. On the other hand, I do acknowledge that there are Christian groups who similarly attack atheists for their beliefs, which I do not condone either.

I do not think that being Christian is reasonable (err, at least the type of Christian that believes in the supernatural stuff, as opposed to just the philosophy). However, there are many geniuses who are Christian.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Plasma Man » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:06 pm UTC

No-one is 100% reasonable all the time.

Lucrece wrote:Celebrating reason doesn't drive someone to gift me an iPhone, so I vote Christmas this round. Silly atheists and their real adherence to principle.
No-one could invent the iPhone without having the ability to reason, so you should be celebrating reason for creating iPhones.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:36 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:I do not think that being Christian is reasonable (err, at least the type of Christian that believes in the supernatural stuff, as opposed to just the philosophy). However, there are many geniuses who are Christian.


That sounds really intolerent... Might I suggest that rather than calling someone unreasonable for their faith, you were looking for a phrase such as "I don't think being Christian demonstrates good reasoning".
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Thirty-one » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:40 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
sje46 wrote:I do not think that being Christian is reasonable (err, at least the type of Christian that believes in the supernatural stuff, as opposed to just the philosophy). However, there are many geniuses who are Christian.


That sounds really intolerent... Might I suggest that rather than calling someone unreasonable for their faith, you were looking for a phrase such as "I don't think being Christian demonstrates good reasoning".


Aren't both phrases the same thing?
"I do not think that being Christian is reasonable" = "Believing in Jesus as a supernatural being defies reason" = "I don't think being Christian demonstrates good reasoning" in my mind at least. I'd probably take equal offence in either.
My first language isn't English though, so that could be why.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Sharlos » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:41 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
sje46 wrote:I do not think that being Christian is reasonable (err, at least the type of Christian that believes in the supernatural stuff, as opposed to just the philosophy). However, there are many geniuses who are Christian.


That sounds really intolerent... Might I suggest that rather than calling someone unreasonable for their faith, you were looking for a phrase such as "I don't think being Christian demonstrates good reasoning".

Aren't those two sentences saying pretty much the same thing?

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:56 pm UTC

Okay, this post made me stop, and I had to come back to it...

folkhero wrote:I'm not really sure what's so dickish, offensive or militant about trying to get people to think about their beliefs and where they came from. Whet I find interesting is that I think that the Catholic billboard also furthers this purpose; it makes an epistemological argument instead of an emotion based on emotion or the rejection of blasphemy. If someone sees both of these billboards, they might actually stop to think about what they believe, what they think that they know and how they came to those beliefs and that supposed knowledge.


-Either- of these billboards make an argument? I'll keep that in mind that a valid argument can consist of "You know I'm right, just admit it." for further use on the XKCD boards. I'm sure that tact will win lots of people over to my side of any argument. They're both a (bad) attempt at bandwagon advertising and not bloody likely to change any minds. They might get people thinking, but they're equally or more capable to get people pissed at the posting group and stifle thought or debate.*

*Note: Sure, they've gotten a lively debate here on XKCD, but just about anything can get us in a good debate around here.

Like all the other religious advertising billboards they're both noise. That's it.

I can agree with the sentiment that Christian churches as the majority have a great talent for marginalizing anyone who's not some flavor of Christian, but these billboards are just lashing out with tit-for-tat and that never drives any kind of reasonable debate forward.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:59 pm UTC

TheKrikkitWars wrote:
sje46 wrote:I do not think that being Christian is reasonable (err, at least the type of Christian that believes in the supernatural stuff, as opposed to just the philosophy). However, there are many geniuses who are Christian.


That sounds really intolerent... Might I suggest that rather than calling someone unreasonable for their faith, you were looking for a phrase such as "I don't think being Christian demonstrates good reasoning".


Believing that God sent his son who is also himself to die for our sins which he himself gave us without us having an understanding of morality in the first place is pretty dumb. If you take offense to that...why the hell did you define yourself by a belief in the first place so much that it would offend you when people criticize it? That would be like me taking personal offense if someone said that a band I really like sucks. If I get hurt by that, that's my fault, not yours. You were just expressing your opinion.

I'm intolerant of irrational beliefs, not of irrational people. After all, we all have irrational beliefs. In fact, the very point your arguing against is that you can't judge someone as an irrational person because of a single irrational belief. In other words it's like I'm saying

"Apples are red!"

"What's wrong with you? You're totally wrong; apples are red, not red!"

Kant was a Christian. Kant was a genius. Therefore, I'm not going to call all Christians idiots. Get it?
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby doogly » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:02 pm UTC

sje46 wrote: Kant was a genius.

Really? What did he do intelligently?
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:09 pm UTC

doogly wrote:
sje46 wrote: Kant was a genius.

Really? What did he do intelligently?

This is getting off topic, but even if you disagree with his philosophy, the fact that he even thought of an entirely new system of ethics and came up with all these arguments for that people still argue today shows strong creativity and general intelligence. I don't know too much about him besides the categorical imperative, but I'm going to have to say "the categorical imperative".
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby doogly » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:12 pm UTC

Being talked about doesn't mean shit for your talent though. Look at Aristotle vs Eratosthenes.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:14 pm UTC

doogly wrote:Being talked about doesn't mean shit for your talent though. Look at Aristotle vs Eratosthenes.

What are you talking about? All I'm saying is that I think Kant was a smart guy, even though I disagree with him. If you think Kant was actually a blabbering idiot, go with any other guy who was wrong while still being smart. I think you get my point. The point is that just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they're an idiot. Because even the smartest people are wrong about things.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby doogly » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:19 pm UTC

Smart people can be wrong about things, but if I think you are wrong about everything, you can't really maintain smart points.

And yeah, this is pretty off topic. Also pretty sure though that the original topic has been milked to completion.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:56 pm UTC

Steax wrote:Wait, I thought that while it's easy to prove something as true, disproving something is a whole different matter. Unless you can say "no, no males were born in the area and time where Jesus (as a human) was," then how could you say that "historical evidence indicates that it's a myth"? Unless you know some historical evidence that I don't, which is a big possibility since I don't really know much about this topic.

Interestingly, the atheists are going against Muslims too in this regard (they believe in Jesus too, just in a different light). I wonder how this ends up.


I think the point here is this: most atheists don't argue that somebody named Jesus didn't exist at some point in the period circa 0 CE, who may have grown up to be a rabbi. There may have been lots of people named Jesus at the time--for all we know, it was a common name. That doesn't mean that Jesus did anything that is claimed of him: he may not have been born a virgin (lots of gods prior to this time had been claimed to be born of a virgin, eg. Horus); there probably wasn't a census that brought Joseph to Bethlehem (no contemporary records of this); Herod probably didn't kill all of the children born during this period (no contemporary historians thought it important enough to write this atrocity down?); Jesus may not have done all (or any) of the miracles claimed of him, nor said all (or any) of the words attributed to him; he may have been executed, but not necessarily crucified; there probably wasn't a solar eclipse at the time of his death (we can calculate this); the tomb may or may not have been empty, but even if it was, not necessarily because he rose from the dead; the dead probably didn't rise from their graves (nobody bothered to record this most miraculous of events?); he may not have been lifted bodily into heaven. That is, while it is possible (likely even) that there was a person named Jesus who existed during this period, this doesn't mean that the stories told about him even remotely reflect the reality of what his life and death were like. That is the mythology that is in dispute.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:25 pm UTC

Better argument would be "Newton was a devout Christian. Newton was a genius. Therefore not all devout Christians are idiots".

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby achan1058 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:26 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Speaking of which, the Catholics responded. Link
But it's true. Jesus is most likely real. It's just that he probably a mortal being, and isn't the son of god.
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Lucrece wrote:Celebrating reason doesn't drive someone to gift me an iPhone, so I vote Christmas this round. Silly atheists and their real adherence to principle.
No-one could invent the iPhone without having the ability to reason, so you should be celebrating reason for creating iPhones.
Ehhhhhhh, what!? In my eyes Apple is just as much as a fan cult as Christianity.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:37 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:
Plasma Man wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Celebrating reason doesn't drive someone to gift me an iPhone, so I vote Christmas this round. Silly atheists and their real adherence to principle.
No-one could invent the iPhone without having the ability to reason, so you should be celebrating reason for creating iPhones.
Ehhhhhhh, what!? In my eyes Apple is just as much as a fan cult as Christianity.


It's not that one should "Celebrate Reason because Apple invented the iPhone" it's that "Reason is a prerequisite for the electronics engineering that makes our current gadgets (and this very forum we're using to argue the point) possible."
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby TheKrikkitWars » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:40 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:Kant was a Christian. Kant was a genius. Therefore, I'm not going to call all Christians idiots. Get it?


Kant was and is largely irrelivant, certainly no genius to my mind... The only reason i have to be thankful for him is for creating the field of study that got so horribly divorced from reality in the 20th century as to irk Alan Sokal into first writing a sardonic article, then embarrasing a major journal, and finally writing a scathing and interesting book.

Euler, Fenymann, Ulam, Szilard, Rutherford, Faraday, Curie, Newton, Leibniz, Einstien, Fermi, Bohr, Oppenheimer, Salk, Flemming & Florey, Corey & House, Suzuki, Pauling, Bencomo & Masses of others have shown true genius spark, Kant meanwhile was a prolific writer, who's abstractions from real life are of tenuous use to anyone. [/Rage]

(Before anyone mentions that a good half dozen of them were involved with the Manhatten Project, think first what other things they did, and second why they ended up together in the first place)

Also, I dislike unqualified Intolerence, specific intolerence is only natural... spread to something so broad it's either hyperbole or dogma.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Lucrece » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:37 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote:No-one is 100% reasonable all the time.

Lucrece wrote:Celebrating reason doesn't drive someone to gift me an iPhone, so I vote Christmas this round. Silly atheists and their real adherence to principle.
No-one could invent the iPhone without having the ability to reason, so you should be celebrating reason for creating iPhones.


Reason is also responsible for that iPhone costing an arm and a leg, so they cancel out!
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Dauric » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:49 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:
Plasma Man wrote:No-one is 100% reasonable all the time.

Lucrece wrote:Celebrating reason doesn't drive someone to gift me an iPhone, so I vote Christmas this round. Silly atheists and their real adherence to principle.
No-one could invent the iPhone without having the ability to reason, so you should be celebrating reason for creating iPhones.


Reason is also responsible for that iPhone costing an arm and a leg, so they cancel out!


That just fits the same niche as the "Omnipotent sky-man allows hate and cruelty to exist" argument. Where this argument is countered by the "Free Will" argument (Ie: God allows people to 'Choose' to be cruel and hateful, where absolutely preventing it would deprive humanity of their free will), the "iPhones are Expensive" argument is countered by economics: scarcity of supply, supply and demand curves, free will to chose an Android or any other competitor's product....
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby uncivlengr » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:14 pm UTC

Christmas is the season for Christians to celebrate God coming to Earth to play dress-up as a human for a few years, gets his costume knocked around a bit, and then goes back to heaven, for the purposes of creating a loophole in a flawed set of rules that he established in the first place.

It's also the time to get offended when others find this absurd.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Le1bn1z » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:20 pm UTC

As a Christian, let me be the first to say: "Meh." *shrugs*

This is a yawner. However, its always nice to see the missions of spiritual growth or rational debate conducted by means of billboard, between the add for Calvin Klein and the deal of Baconators.

So, on the basis that I always love billboards trying to be serious and sombre, whatever their affiliation, this gets two thumbs up from me.

On the topic of Atheism, I thought Colbert said it best: "Atheism: the worship of one's own smug sense of superiority." Or, as I've sometimes thought "Well, the Christians were stupid because they pretended to know everything about the universe based on an incomplete set of data. Fortunately, since we now have complete data explaining everything, we really do know everything about the universe and can be immediately dismissive of others! Horray!...oh. Wait..."

Still, I can sympathyse with these billboards in the USA. Many of your compatriots are proper Mel Gibson crazy, so a little public solidarity might go a long way.

That being said, you all still come off as a bit silly.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby doogly » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:26 pm UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:That being said, you all still come off as a bit silly.

Isn't that smug sense of superiority intoxicating? You can see why we like it so much.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Роберт » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:28 pm UTC

ConMan wrote:I'd prefer something like "You don't need God to be good this Christmas" with an image of people helping at a homeless shelter or a family spending time together or something.

That would be a lot more productive, I think... It would be encouraging to atheists without being reasonably seen as an attack on Christians. (Of course, some would still get their hackles up, but there would be no good excuse.)
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Le1bn1z » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:29 pm UTC

doogly wrote:
Le1bn1z wrote:That being said, you all still come off as a bit silly.

Isn't that smug sense of superiority intoxicating? You can see why we like it so much.


You all being the billboard community.

That would be a lot more productive, I think... It would be encouraging to atheists without being reasonably seen as an attack on Christians. (Of course, some would still get their hackles up, but there would be no good excuse.)


Actually, I think it would miss the point. Atheists feel a bit left out come the holidays, particularily in the USA. The point of the billboard is unapolegetic, affirmative assertion of solidarity and pride.

So the message makes sense, and I don't think its all that offensive, really.
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Jessica
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Jessica » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:42 pm UTC

Le1bn1z wrote:Actually, I think it would miss the point. Atheists feel a bit left out come the holidays, particularly in the USA. The point of the billboard is unapologetic, affirmative assertion of solidarity and pride.

So the message makes sense, and I don't think its all that offensive, really.
Agreed. He essentially said as much in the article.

Mr Silverman said atheists were unfairly targeted in the ‘war on Christmas’, a phrase often related to the public display of Christmas imagery on government funded property

He said: ‘We get blamed for a war on Christmas every year. This time we’re actually going to pay attention to that. We’re actually going to earn a little bit of that.

We have been blamed repeatedly for being unpatriotic, we have been told that there are not atheists in fox holes, we have been told that we are immoral.

‘Nobody has ever cared if we would be offended.’
doogly wrote:On a scale of Mr Rogers to Fascism, how mean do you think we're being?
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby Glass Fractal » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:50 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:I'm intolerant of irrational beliefs, not of irrational people.


Sounds like the Christian line: Hate the sin, not the sinner.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby G.v.K » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:58 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Better argument would be "Newton was a devout Christian. Newton was a genius. Therefore not all devout Christians are idiots".


bad argument. [edit: actually. it's not a bad argument. whoops] idiocy and genius are not mutually exclusive. in fact, Newton is probably the classic example of a genius in one area of thought who managed to piss away years of his life applying an incorrect way of thinking to another area of thought i.e. theology.

can't blame him though. as this thread proves, the same tired old debate still hasn't been put to rest.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby quantumcat42 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:04 pm UTC

Well, as Newton was born in England, I guess it's quite reasonable to conclude that he was No True Scotsman.

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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:35 pm UTC

Glass Fractal wrote:
sje46 wrote:I'm intolerant of irrational beliefs, not of irrational people.


Sounds like the Christian line: Hate the sin, not the sinner.

You say that as if I'm being hypocritical, but that's exactly what I mean. I don't hate people because they make mistakes. I hate the mistakes themselves. There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to hate the sin instead of the sinner, as long as the sin is actually, you know, something you are justified in hating. If we're talking about homosexuality, that isn't justified!
G.v.K wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Better argument would be "Newton was a devout Christian. Newton was a genius. Therefore not all devout Christians are idiots".


bad argument. [edit: actually. it's not a bad argument. whoops] idiocy and genius are not mutually exclusive.

What? Idiocy and genius are mutually exclusive. Idiocy refers to somebody with low general intelligence. Genius refers to someone with high intelligence. The term idiot was originally meant to refer to people with severe mental retardation (I think below 30) whereas genius has (does?) refer to someone with high IQ (above 130). Now I know the IQ scale is controversial in itself. But general intelligence is a thing, and it is correlated with the other various intelligences. As your other intelligences go up, so does your general intelligence. There are idiot savants of course, too, but just because they're intelligent in one specific thing doesn't mean their general intelligence is high.

The point is that idiocy and genius are not only mutually exclusive but are opposites. You can't be both at the same time. You can, however, be an idiot with talents. You can also be a genius who is completely deficit with some things. Bill Mayer, I think, is a pretty intelligent guy...until he starts talking about inoculations. And this is my point. You can't just call someone stupid just because they hold a belief you find stupid.
TheKrikkitWars wrote:Kant was and is largely irrelivant, certainly no genius to my mind... The only reason i have to be thankful for him is for creating the field of study that got so horribly divorced from reality in the 20th century as to irk Alan Sokal into first writing a sardonic article, then embarrasing a major journal, and finally writing a scathing and interesting book.
To your mind? See, that's what I'm talking about. Just because you disagree with his theory doesn't mean he's an idiot! Jesus, you don't survive in that field while being considered one of the greatest philosophers of all time if you have average intelligence. This is closed-mindedness. Get it?
Le1bn1z wrote:On the topic of Atheism, I thought Colbert said it best: "Atheism: the worship of one's own smug sense of superiority." Or, as I've sometimes thought "Well, the Christians were stupid because they pretended to know everything about the universe based on an incomplete set of data. Fortunately, since we now have complete data explaining everything, we really do know everything about the universe and can be immediately dismissive of others! Horray!...oh. Wait..."
You are aware that you're being way more smug than any other atheist (lowercase) here? And, not only that, but you're relying on stereotypes? ?Smugness is not an inherent part of atheism.
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Re: Atheist Christmas Advertising

Postby G.v.K » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:00 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:What? Idiocy and genius are mutually exclusive. Idiocy refers to somebody with low general intelligence. Genius refers to someone with high intelligence. The term idiot was originally meant to refer to people with severe mental retardation (I think below 30) whereas genius has (does?) refer to someone with high IQ (above 130). Now I know the IQ scale is controversial in itself. But general intelligence is a thing, and it is correlated with the other various intelligences. As your other intelligences go up, so does your general intelligence. There are idiot savants of course, too, but just because they're intelligent in one specific thing doesn't mean their general intelligence is high.

The point is that idiocy and genius are not only mutually exclusive but are opposites. You can't be both at the same time. You can, however, be an idiot with talents. You can also be a genius who is completely deficit with some things. Bill Mayer, I think, is a pretty intelligent guy...until he starts talking about inoculations. And this is my point. You can't just call someone stupid just because they hold a belief you find stupid.


if you're going to talk about 'original' meanings you'll have to go back to latin (and Greek for 'idiot'), which is where both terms came from.

it seems to me quite clear that Newton was a genius at mathematics and an idiot at theology. that's, of course, just my opinion. but i see no logical problem with holding both of those to be true.

the statement 'Newton was a genius and an idiot" is clumsy, but i don't think it's invalid.


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