USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

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LongLurkingFool
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USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby LongLurkingFool » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:25 am UTC

Ladies and Gents,

As of one hour ago the United States Marine Corps issued MARADMIN 598/10.

COMMANDERS WILL NOT APPLY THE PROVISIONS REGARDING HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT INVESTIGATION, DISCHARGE, SEPARATION, OR OTHER PROCEEDINGS


First post, so hotlink is spoilered. I'm sorry mods; ban me as you feel is just.



Link approved as it's relevant and a primary source. -Hawk
Last edited by LongLurkingFool on Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:15 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Greyarcher
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Re: USMC stops Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Greyarcher » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:24 am UTC

A. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, COMMANDERS WILL NOT ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS REGARDING HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT INVESTIGATION, DISCHARGE, SEPARATION, OR OTHER PROCEEDINGS OF REFS B THROUGH H.
B. THE POLICY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE REMAINS NOT TO ASK SERVICEMEMBERS OR APPLICANTS ABOUT THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION, TO TREAT ALL MEMBERS WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT, AND TO ENSURE MAINTENANCE OF GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE.
C. IN LIGHT OF THE APPEAL OF THE DECISION AND APPLICATION FOR A STAY, A HIGH LEVEL OF UNCERTAINTY NOW EXISTS REGARDING THE FUTURE OF HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT LAW AND POLICY. SERVICE MEMBERS MUST BE AWARE THAT IF THEY ALTER THEIR PERSONAL CONDUCT IN THIS LEGALLY UNCERTAIN ENVIRONMENT, THERE MAY BE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES FOR THEMSELVES OR OTHERS IF THE COURT'S INITIAL DECISION IS REVERSED.
So interim measure A, a sensible reiteration of B, and a cautioning remark C.

All in all, pretty cool.
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Re: USMC stops Homosexual Prosecution

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:31 am UTC

Greyarcher wrote:
A. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, COMMANDERS WILL NOT ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS REGARDING HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT INVESTIGATION, DISCHARGE, SEPARATION, OR OTHER PROCEEDINGS OF REFS B THROUGH H.
B. THE POLICY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE REMAINS NOT TO ASK SERVICEMEMBERS OR APPLICANTS ABOUT THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION, TO TREAT ALL MEMBERS WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT, AND TO ENSURE MAINTENANCE OF GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE.
C. IN LIGHT OF THE APPEAL OF THE DECISION AND APPLICATION FOR A STAY, A HIGH LEVEL OF UNCERTAINTY NOW EXISTS REGARDING THE FUTURE OF HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT LAW AND POLICY. SERVICE MEMBERS MUST BE AWARE THAT IF THEY ALTER THEIR PERSONAL CONDUCT IN THIS LEGALLY UNCERTAIN ENVIRONMENT, THERE MAY BE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES FOR THEMSELVES OR OTHERS IF THE COURT'S INITIAL DECISION IS REVERSED.
So interim measure A, a sensible reiteration of B, and a cautioning remark C.

All in all, pretty cool.


Yeah, following the law in a sensible manner. I give it a thumbs up.
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Re: USMC stops Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Lazar » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:43 am UTC

How does that mesh with this? The 9th Circuit Court has just frozen the order to end DADT.
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Re: USMC stops Homosexual Prosecution

Postby BlackSails » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:53 am UTC

It meshes with it fine. They said its uncertain what is going to happen, and dont do anything against the current rules.

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Re: USMC stops Homosexual Prosecution

Postby netcrusher88 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:52 am UTC

The 9th Circuit's stay has no bearing on the DoD order. It does mean certain military division are now operating in violation of federal law, but as the whole thing is in all kinds of legal limbo right now I'm not sure that's important for the time being.
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Re: USMC stops Homosexual Prosecution

Postby LongLurkingFool » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:01 am UTC

aaaaand backwards step now.
Spoiler:
http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN607-10.aspx

HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT DISCHARGE PROCESSING UPDATE

Date Signed: 10/22/2010
MARADMIN Active Number: 607/10
R 221030Z OCT 10
UNCLASSIFIED//
MARADMIN 607/10
MSGID/GENADMIN,USMTF,2007/CMC WASHINGTON DC MRA MP//
SUBJ/HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT DISCHARGE PROCESSING UPDATE//
REF/A/MEMO/USD P AND R WASHINGTON DC/15OCT2010//
REF/B/MSG/CMC WASHINGTON DC MRA MP/202024ZOCT10//
REF/C/MEMO/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC/21OCT2010//
REF/D/MEMO/USD P AND R WASHINGTON DC/21OCT2010//
REF/E/10USC654/30NOV93//
REF/F/MSGID/DC MRA/YMD: 20020823//
REF/G/MSGID:DOC/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC/28AUG2008//
REF/H/MSGID:DOC/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC/11DEC2008//
REF/I/MSGID:DOC/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC/25MAR2010//
REF/J/MSGID/HQMC JAM/YMD: 20100330//
REF/K/MSGID/DC MRA MM/YMD: 20100423//
NARR/REF A IS MEMO USD (P AND R), HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT DISCHARGE PROCESSING. REF B IS MARADMIN 598-10, HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT DISCHARGE PROCESSING. REF C IS MEMO SECDEF, TITLE 10, U.S.C., 654. REF D IS MEMO USD (P AND R), DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL LEGAL DEVELOPMENTS. REF E IS THE FEDERAL STATUTE GOVERNING DOD POLICY ON HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE ARMED FORCES. REF F IS MARADMIN 451-02, HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT POLICY TASKS AND RESPONSIBILITIES. REF G IS DOD INSTRUCTION 1332.14 W/ CHANGE 1, ENLISTED ADMINISTRATION SEPARATIONS. REF H IS DOD INSTRUCT- ION 1332.30 W/ CHANGE 1, SEPARATION OF REGULAR AND RESERVE COMMISSIONED OFFICERS. REF I IS SECDEF MEMO, REVISIONS TO REGULATIONS IMPLEMENTING 10 U.S.C 654. REF J IS MARADMIN 184-10, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE (DOD) AMENDMENTS TO POLICY ON SEPARATION FOR HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT. REF K IS MARADMIN 242-10, DOD REVISIONS TO POLICY ON SEPARATION FOR HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT.//
POC/K. CERNY/CIV/UNIT:MPO/-/TEL:(703) 784-9388/TEL:DSN 278-9388//
POC/A. MANZANEDO/CAPTAIN/UNIT:MPO/-/TEL:(703) 784-9387:DSN 278-9387//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. PURPOSE. THIS MARADMIN NOTIFIES ALL MARINE CORPS PERSONNEL OF A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE TO THE INTERIM POLICY FOR SEPARATION OF SERVICE MEMBERS FOR HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT THAT WAS IMPLEMENTED BY REFS A AND B AND HAS BEEN CHANGED BY REFS C AND D. THE GUIDANCE IN THIS MSG SUPERSEDES THAT IN REF B AND CANCELS REF B. THESE CHANGES ARE EFFECTIVE AS OF 21 OCTOBER 2010 AND UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. COMMANDERS AT ALL LEVELS ARE TO ENSURE THIS CHANGE IS WIDELY DISSEMINATED AND UNDERSTOOD BY ALL MARINES.
2. BACKGROUND. ON 12 OCTOBER 2010, A FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT IN CALIFORNIA ISSUED AN INJUNCTION ORDERING THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO CEASE ENFORCEMENT OF THE "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL" LAW (10 U.S.C. 654) AND IMPLEMENTING REGULATIONS. THE COURT ORDERED THE GOVERNMENT IMMEDIATELY TO SUSPEND AND DISCONTINUE ANY INVESTIGATION, OR DISCHARGE, SEPARATION, OR OTHER PROCEEDING COMMENCED UNDER THE "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL" ACT OR ITS IMPLEMENTING REGULATIONS. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FILED AN APPEAL FROM THIS INJUNCTION AND THE COURT'S EARLIER DECISION THAT SUPPORTS IT, AND SOUGHT A STAY OF THE INJUNCTION WHILE THE APPEAL WAS PENDING. INTERIM GUIDANCE DIRECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO ABIDE BY THE TERMS OF THE INJUNCTION WAS IMPLEMENTED BY REFS A AND B. ON 20 OCTOBER 2010, 9TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS ISSUED A TEMPORARY STAY OF THE INJUNCTION, FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT FOUR DAYS, WHILE THE APPELLATE COURT CONSIDERS WHETHER TO GRANT A STAY OF THE INJUNCTION FOR THE ENTIRE TIME THE CASE IS ON APPEAL OR TO SUSPEND THE STAY OF THE DISTRICT COURT'S INJUNCTION. THIS MEANS THAT DURING THE PERIOD OF ANY STAY OF THE DISTRICT COURT'S INJUNCTION, THE "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL" LAW AND POLICY IN REFS E-K ARE AGAIN IN FORCE AND EFFECT. THIS LATEST CHANGE HIGHLIGHTS THE LEGALLY UNCERTAIN PERIOD IN WHICH WE FIND OURSELVES WITH RESPECT TO "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL", AND THE NEED TO ENSURE UNIFORMITY AND CARE IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS LAW.
3. AS OF 21 OCTOBER 2010, THE IMMEDIATE GUIDANCE IS:
A. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AND UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, NO MILITARY SERVICE MEMBER SHALL BE SEPARATED PURSUANT TO REF E WITHOUT THE PERSONAL APPROVAL OF THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY, AND ONLY IN COORDINATION WITH USD (P AND R) AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE GENERAL COUNSEL. THIS SEPARATION AUTHORITY MAY NOT BE DELEGATED. MARINE CORPS COMMANDS SHALL SUBMIT SEPARATION REQUESTS VIA CMC (JAD) TO SECNAV.
B. COMMANDERS WILL OTHERWISE ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS REGARDING HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT INVESTIGATION, DISCHARGE, SEPARATION, OR OTHER PROCEEDINGS ACCORDING TO REFS E-K.
C. THE PROVISIONS OF REFS E-K ARE AGAIN IN FORCE FOR ALL RECRUITING AND ACCESSIONS ACTIVITIES. RECRUITERS WILL NOT ASK APPLICANTS ABOUT THE APPLICANT'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION. IF AN APPLICANT REVEALS THEIR HOMO-SEXUAL ORIENTATION TO THE RECRUITER, HOWEVER, THE APPLICANT SHALL NOT BE PERMITTED TO ENLIST OR CONTINUE THE ENLISTMENT PROCESS. FURTHER, IF AN APPLICANT HAD REVEALED THAT THEY ARE GAY OR LESBIAN TO THE RECRUITER DURING ANY TIME THE INJUNCTION WAS IN EFFECT (I.E., NOT STAYED); THE APPLICANT WILL NOT NOW BE PERMITTED TO ENLIST OR CONTINUE THE ENLISTMENT PROCESS.
D. THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE POLICY REMAINS TO NOT ASK ABOUT A SERVICEMEMBER'S OR APPLICANT'S SEXUAL ORIENTATION, TO TREAT ALL SERVICE-MEMBERS AND APPLICANTS WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT, AND TO MAINTAIN GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE.
E. THIS LATEST CHANGE UNDERSCORES THE HIGH LEVEL OF UNCERTAINTY THAT EXISTS REGARDING HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT LAW AND POLICY. ALL SERVICEMEMBERS MUST BE AWARE THAT THIS UNCERTAINTY RAISES THE RISK OF ADVERSE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES FOR ANY ACTIONS TAKEN IN RELIANCE ON THE CURRENT LAW, DISTRICT COURT RULING, AND APPELLATE COURT STAY. WE ENCOURAGE COMMANDERS AND SERVICE-MEMBERS ALIKE TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE BEFORE TAKING ANY ACTION IN RELIANCE ON WHAT THEY PERCEIVE IS THE CURRENT STATE OF THE LAW.
4. COMMANDERS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED TO CONSULT THEIR SJA OR COMMAND COUNSEL IN EVERY CASE IMPLICATING HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT LAW AND POLICY. REFER ALL QUESTIONS REGARDING APPLICABILITY OF THIS MARADMIN TO THE MPO POC LISTED ABOVE.
5. THIS MARADMIN IS EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY AND WILL REMAIN IN EFFECT UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
6. THIS APPLIES TO THE TOTAL MARINE CORPS FORCE.
7. RELEASE AUTHORITY BY (SES) MS. S. E. MURRAY, ASSISTANT DEPUTY COMMANDANT, MANPOWER RESERVE AND AFFAIRS.//


Commands are again supposed to resume investigations of homosexual marines, but cant kick them out without approval from SecNav Ray Maybus.

Also, bummer for anyone who thought this was the time to enlist. If you confided in your recruiter that you're gay he cant let you in currently (maybe soon we'll flip back...)

It would be really nice if instead of this outcome being based on the position of the court from one day to the next it was based on firm law aka amendment to the UCMJ via congress and the president.

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Greyarcher » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:30 am UTC

Well, no real surprise there. Like they warned, this issue is still legally up in the air. I expect it will be some months before the courts resolve this.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby SummerGlauFan » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:07 am UTC

Hence the precaution to service members. There was no doubt that this will be legally challenged for some time.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Malodine » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:02 pm UTC

As of right now all administrative separations pertaining to homosexual conduct have to go through their approriate Secretary (Secretary of the Army, Navy or Air Force). So realistically an administrative separation for anyone who is homosexual is just not going to happen right now.

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:54 pm UTC

It would take three forevers to get an admin sep for a service member if that had to go through the relevant Secretary. Getting a simple approval for a commendation (a piece of paper saying good boy/girl) from them is like extracting teeth from a pissed off rhino from seventy miles away with a pair of tongs. They aren't touching any political footballs at the moment, I guarantee you that.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Griffin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:58 pm UTC

What exactly is wrong with the 9th circuit? Every time a terrible decision is made, it seems to be them making it.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:15 pm UTC

Griffin wrote:What exactly is wrong with the 9th circuit? Every time a terrible decision is made, it seems to be them making it.


What's the horrible decision they made this week?
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby podbaydoor » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:13 pm UTC

This was the most recent DADT thread I could find, so hurray necro!

It has something to do with the Marines, too, so I guess it fits.

The Pentagon completed its DADT report. 70% of surveyed service members thought repealing DADT would have positive or neutral impact.

However, 58% of Marines in combat units thought it would have a negative impact on unit cohesion. And despite a "phalanx" of top military officials recommending the repeal, Sen. John McCain is taking the lead on questioning, questioning, questioning yet again. What the fuck is up with this guy?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/us/po ... itary.html
McCain Questions Pentagon on Repeal of Gay Ban
Spoiler:
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
WASHINGTON — Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican and Vietnam-era war hero, took on the nation’s top defense and military officials Thursday when he repeatedly challenged the Pentagon’s position that gay men and women should be allowed to serve openly in the armed forces.

In a sometimes tense hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Mr. McCain, one of the senators who is closest to the military, was in the remarkable spot of arguing with a phalanx of its senior leadership — the defense secretary, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the general who commands the Army in Europe and the Pentagon’s general counsel — and saying they should not push for the repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” the 17-year-old law that requires gay men and women in the military to keep their sexual orientation secret or face discharge.

Citing the results of a recent Pentagon survey of 115,000 active-duty and reserve service members, Mr. McCain said that 58 percent of Marines in combat units and 48 percent of Army combat troops thought repealing the law would have either a negative or a very negative impact on the ability of their units to work together.

“I remain concerned,” Mr. McCain said, “as I have in the past, and as demonstrated in this study, that the closer we get to service members in combat, the more we encounter concerns about whether ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ should be repealed. These views should not be considered lightly, especially considering how much combat our forces face.”

The officials responded by pointing out the larger conclusions of the survey, which found that 70 percent of service members asked — including those in both combat and noncombat units — believed the impact on their units would be positive, mixed or of no consequence at all.

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, whose testimony at the hearing led off the Pentagon’s position, also told Mr. McCain that many of those in combat were in their early 20s, had never even served with women and had a focused, limited experience in the military. He acknowledged that he, too, was worried about their resistance to change, but said their objections were not insurmountable.

“With time and adequate preparation, we can mitigate their concerns,” Mr. Gates said.

“Well, I couldn’t disagree more,” Mr. McCain shot back. “We send these young people into combat; we think they’re mature enough to fight and die. I think they’re mature enough to make a judgment on who they want to serve with and the impact on their battle effectiveness.”

Mr. McCain, a naval aviator in the Vietnam War who was shot down and imprisoned in Hanoi, then added: “Mr. Secretary, I speak from personal experience.”

Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, appeared alongside Mr. Gates and made a personal appeal to the panel. “I’ve been serving with gays and lesbians my whole career,” he said. “I went to war with them aboard a destroyer off the coast of Vietnam. I knew they were there. They knew I knew it. We never missed a mission, never failed to deliver ordnance on target.”

Admiral Mullen added: “Should repeal occur, some soldiers and Marines may want separate shower facilities. Some may ask for different berthing. Some may even quit the service. We’ll deal with that.”

Repeal faces uncertain prospects in the Senate. It is unclear if there are enough Republicans willing to vote for it, and also if there is enough time in the lame-duck Senate.

Mr. Gates and Admiral Mullen made the argument that the Senate should vote in the next few weeks because delaying would result in a wave of lawsuits and the potential for repeal to be ordered by what Mr. Gates called “judicial fiat” — meaning, he said, that the military would have no time to prepare for the change. “Those that choose not to act legislatively are rolling the dice that this policy will not be abruptly overturned by the courts,” Mr. Gates said.

Mr. Gates and Admiral Mullen also spoke against the argument of “not now,” voiced by many of the combat troops who were surveyed, that a time of two wars is not the right moment to impose social change on the force. Admiral Mullen told the committee that he had no expectation that “challenges to our national security are going to diminish in the near future, such that a more convenient time will appear.”

Mr. Gates said: “If not now, when? When we’re out of Afghanistan? But who’s to say — as I look ahead in the world, I don’t see the world getting to be a safer, easier place to live in, where our troops are necessarily under less stress.”

The two appeared to be heading off some of the arguments expected to be advanced in testimony before the panel on Friday by the chiefs of the Army, Air Force and Navy, and the commandant of the Marine Corps. All have expressed reluctance about repeal.

Mr. Gates and Mr. Mullen appeared with the co-authors of a new Pentagon report on the effects of repeal on the military: Jeh C. Johnson, the Pentagon’s general counsel, and Gen. Carter F. Ham, the commander of the Army in Europe.

All were pressed not only by Mr. McCain but also by other Republicans on the panel about whether it was a good idea to push for repeal when the survey revealed so much resistance among combat forces. Mr. Gates at one point bristled at those questions and said that although the service members’ opinions were important, they did not get a vote.

“I can’t think of a single precedent in American history of doing a referendum of the American armed forces on a policy issue,” Mr. Gates told the panel. “Are you going to ask them if they want 15-month tours? Are you going to ask them if they want to be part of the surge in Iraq? That’s not the way our civilian-led military has ever worked in our entire history. The ‘should’ question is to be decided by the Congress or the courts, as far as I’m concerned.”

Senator Roger Wicker, Republican of Mississippi, pressed Mr. Gates on why the survey, which consisted of 103 questions, had not simply asked service members their opinion on whether the law should be changed. Mr. Gates swiftly responded, “I think that in effect doing a referendum of the armed forces on a policy matter is a very dangerous path.”
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Lostdreams » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:29 pm UTC

At this rate I'm just waiting for one of the republicans to bust out with a "seprate but equal" for housing, toilets, and the like. Didn't we learn how this sort of thing is supposed to happen a long time ago?
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Oregonaut » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:32 pm UTC

"Can't you just stop being gay?"

One of the more hilarious things I've heard recently.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:56 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:"Can't you just stop being gay?"

One of the more hilarious things I've heard recently.
It would be hillarious if they were kidding when they said that.
Unfortunately they aren't, which makes it sad.

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby mmmcannibalism » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:06 am UTC

The Pentagon completed its DADT report. 70% of surveyed service members thought repealing DADT would have positive or neutral impact.

However, 58% of Marines in combat units thought it would have a negative impact on unit cohesion. And despite a "phalanx" of top military officials recommending the repeal, Sen. John McCain is taking the lead on questioning, questioning, questioning yet again. What the fuck is up with this guy?


This statistic is confusing me a little. Do they mean 70% of all military think this won't do much, but 58% of marines do think it will have some negative impact on unit cohesion; or 70% of military service men are okay with it but the marines seems to be most of that 30%?
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby BlackSails » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:06 am UTC

I think its 70% overall dont care, and 58% of marines in combat units think it would be bad. That doesnt mean 58% oppose it though.

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:08 am UTC

Wasn't EVERYONE against racial integration and they did it anyway?
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby netcrusher88 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:20 am UTC

80% of white servicemen IIRC.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:38 am UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:This statistic is confusing me a little. Do they mean 70% of all military think this won't do much, but 58% of marines do think it will have some negative impact on unit cohesion; or 70% of military service men are okay with it but the marines seems to be most of that 30%?

I'm pretty sure active Marines only comprise around 14% of all active service members, so no.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Lucrece » Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:39 pm UTC

Marines have the higher rates of opposition, but it's still not a supermajority.

Racial integration saw rates of 70-90% opposition across the branches, and it happened regardless AND before the entire country as well. This little tactic of polling the feelings of people who join a service in which they know their opinion is not required for regulation-crafting is just another Republican sham.

Discomfort just goes down the window; considering that likely death, shortage of supply, social isolation, possible maiming all are far more discomforting prospects than having a homo on your unit, and yet the soldiers aren't coddled on those accounts-- so why should bigotry against gay people be coddled?
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby podbaydoor » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:00 pm UTC

I think the point Gates made was an important one. The armed forces are not a democracy.
tenet |ˈtenit|
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Internetmeme » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:05 am UTC

The most hilarious bit?

Senator McCain questioned repealing DADT because of...
Spoiler:
the current economy


Insane troll logic, if there ever was.
Spoiler:

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby mmmcannibalism » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:09 am UTC

Internetmeme wrote:The most hilarious bit?

Senator McCain questioned repealing DADT because of...
Spoiler:
the current economy


Insane troll logic, if there ever was.


Wait, what was the thinking behind that? First guess, "if we do this now a bunch of the gays will be trying to enroll"
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Sharlos » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:16 am UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
Internetmeme wrote:The most hilarious bit?

Senator McCain questioned repealing DADT because of...
Spoiler:
the current economy


Insane troll logic, if there ever was.


Wait, what was the thinking behind that? First guess, "if we do this now a bunch of the gays will be trying to enroll"


Isn't that a good thing when you're in the middle of two wars and your military is over-extended?

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby mmmcannibalism » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:22 am UTC

Sharlos wrote:
mmmcannibalism wrote:
Internetmeme wrote:The most hilarious bit?

Senator McCain questioned repealing DADT because of...
Spoiler:
the current economy


Insane troll logic, if there ever was.


Wait, what was the thinking behind that? First guess, "if we do this now a bunch of the gays will be trying to enroll"


Isn't that a good thing when you're in the middle of two wars and your military is over-extended?


Considering we are already in the realm of mass theorizing bs, I'm not concerned about his theory being consistent with logic.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Triangle_Man » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:30 am UTC

From the sounds of it, McCain is opposed to DADT 'on principal' and is grasping for a solid reason as to why it shouldn't be repealed.

Except that he can't find any, so he's stalling for time until he can.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Lostdreams » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:28 pm UTC

Internetmeme wrote:The most hilarious bit?

Senator McCain questioned repealing DADT because of...
Spoiler:
the current economy


Insane troll logic, if there ever was.


Next poor logic jump: Gays = Bad for the economy

followed by

FOX NEWS Headline: Republicans pushing bill to ship all gays overseas to help solve debt crisis.
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Sorry, we just learned science.

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby netcrusher88 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:38 pm UTC

Sweet, I've always wanted to go to Europe!

Wait. Cheap bastards will probably just put everybody on a bus to Canada. Canada is nice though. It's like Europe without the... wait, shit. Quebec.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Lucrece » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:55 pm UTC

Yes, but there are lots of diabolical bees in Canada.
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby netcrusher88 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:00 pm UTC

Image
Experience bees!

(if anyone gets this I may be a little surprised)
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I have only ever made one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -Voltaire
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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby Lostdreams » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:26 pm UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:Image
Experience bees!

(if anyone gets this I may be a little surprised)


Gays! The ones who are moving now!
The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
TrlstanC wrote:But, I'm still curious, did no one else ever learn about creationism in science class at some point, at least those who went to public school?

Sorry, we just learned science.

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Re: USMC [s]stops[/s] Homosexual Prosecution

Postby netcrusher88 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:45 pm UTC

First you suggest a vacation, and now you know the Star Trek VHS game.

Welcome, friend.

...what was this thread about again?
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