A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

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A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Dream » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:47 pm UTC

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle_blo ... everywhere

It seems that Obama had promised to allow federal funding to be used to finance needle exchange programs. I am amazed that this was not already the case. But it seems further that he backed out of the promise because the legislation was tacked on to a budgetary bill, which is a practice he opposes on principle. After congress Democrats rescued the endeavour, it seems Republicans banned the newly funded exchanges from being situated within a thousand feet of just about anywhere they might be needed. I wonder is there no end to the cynicism in American (and everywhere else's) politics?

I also read here that HIV positive people are currently banned from entering the United States.

...

What. The. Fuck?

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:57 pm UTC

Is that horizontal, or vertical? Put them at the top of every corporate skyscraper in America.

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby mmmcannibalism » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:58 pm UTC

I also read here that HIV positive people are currently banned from entering the United States.
...
What. The. Fuck?
I do my level best not to stereotype America as a blight on the reputation of actual freedom everywhere, but sometimes America makes that very hard to do.


Why should the immigration department have to allow people with HIV?

edit

Is that horizontal, or vertical? Put them at the top of every corporate skyscraper in America.


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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby crazyjimbo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:06 am UTC

Dream wrote:
I also read here that HIV positive people are currently banned from entering the United States.

...

What. The. Fuck?

I do my level best not to stereotype America as a blight on the reputation of actual freedom everywhere, but sometimes America makes that very hard to do.


I was talking with some friends recently and I brought this up but I wasn't sure I had my facts straight. Everyone's reaction was that I must be mistaken since that would be such a stupid and ridiculous policy so I figured that I must be recalling it wrongly. Turns out I was right. Sometimes fact is more messed up than fiction.

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Dream » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:14 am UTC

crazyjimbo wrote:I was talking with some friends recently and I brought this up but I wasn't sure I had my facts straight. Everyone's reaction was that I must be mistaken since that would be such a stupid and ridiculous policy so I figured that I must be recalling it wrongly. Turns out I was right. Sometimes fact is more messed up than fiction.

I know. I'm still having serious trouble with believing it.

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Is that horizontal, or vertical? Put them at the top of every corporate skyscraper in America.

What America needs now is a test case followed by a rigourous, decades long appeals process that will establish once-and-for-the-late-21st-century whether this interpretation is the correct one.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:18 am UTC

Safe needles are the type of thing that are usually handled by cities I think, I'm pretty sure San Francisco and Los Angeles had them (only cities I'm familiar enough to judge). Granted, not the best sample cities, but having programs like this being completely handled on a local level is pretty common. While it seems cruel at times like this, trying to keep things federal has their own problems. For example, during our state's budget crisis several small free clinics had to close because they were completely funded by the state, redirecting that traffic through larger hospitals which is both a worse service to the people and more expensive, but the feds payed for that and not the small clinics (hence a financial gain to the state). What works best on a local level is easiest to see from the local level, and while something like safe needles might be pretty obvious you're still layering random layers of services through various bureaucracies with individual program requirements without a very direct oversight mechanism for its efficacy.

..but yeah, the 1,000 ft rule is complete and utter bullshit if you're going to do something like this.

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby MikeBabaguh » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:59 am UTC

It's common practice for nations to disallow people infected with epidemic-level diseases to enter.

Hrm, in before someone makes a joke about Madagascar.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Sharlos » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:33 am UTC

MikeBabaguh wrote:It's common practice for nations to disallow people infected with epidemic-level diseases to enter.

Hrm, in before someone makes a joke about Madagascar.

Not once the disease is already widely spread within your country.

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby mmmcannibalism » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:37 am UTC

Sharlos wrote:
MikeBabaguh wrote:It's common practice for nations to disallow people infected with epidemic-level diseases to enter.

Hrm, in before someone makes a joke about Madagascar.

Not once the disease is already widely spread within your country.


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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby fjafjan » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:44 am UTC

This is similar to a thing I heard about Sexual offenders in a lot of states. They also are not allowed to live or work near school etc. In fact
Spoiler:
registered offenders are barred from living within 1,000 feet of any area where children may gather, including schools, libraries, parks and other public recreation facilities. Furthermore, sex offenders are forbidden from even working with 1,000 feet of schools or child-care facilities. The sheer number of restrictions associated with being a registered sex offender make it nearly impossible to carve out a life post-conviction and in all likelihood, play a significant part in contributing to the high levels of homelessness among convicted sex offenders.

(spoilered for non relevant)

In short, 1000 feet rules are fucking retarded.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Philwelch » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:53 pm UTC

Sharlos wrote:
MikeBabaguh wrote:It's common practice for nations to disallow people infected with epidemic-level diseases to enter.

Hrm, in before someone makes a joke about Madagascar.

Not once the disease is already widely spread within your country.


Compared to countries where HIV is a real epidemic, HIV is not "widely spread" within the United States.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Levi » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:30 pm UTC

I'm having trouble seeing why this is a problem. It may be stupid, yes, but why not just put them 1,001 feet away? It's not that far to walk.

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby JBJ » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

Levi wrote:I'm having trouble seeing why this is a problem. It may be stupid, yes, but why not just put them 1,001 feet away? It's not that far to walk.

Because in a dense urban environment, there is often very little space available when you put 1000 foot buffer zones around every school, park, bus stop, etc... Areas will overlap.
A circle with a 1,000 foot radius is 3.14 million square feet (remember pi x r2), or approximately 72 acres. That's if you only measure from the center of a park, school, etc... and not it's borders. You have to think in area, not linearly.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Cynical Idealist » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:37 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:
Levi wrote:I'm having trouble seeing why this is a problem. It may be stupid, yes, but why not just put them 1,001 feet away? It's not that far to walk.

Because in a dense urban environment, there is often very little space available when you put 1000 foot buffer zones around every school, park, bus stop, etc... Areas will overlap.
A circle with a 1,000 foot radius is 3.14 million square feet (remember pi x r2), or approximately 72 acres. That's if you only measure from the center of a park, school, etc... and not it's borders. You have to think in area, not linearly.

I'm going to put an image from the article in here as a visual aid (spoilered for large):
Spoiler:
Image


Everywhere within the red is off limits. Think about that, Levi.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Dream » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:04 pm UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:Everywhere within the red is off limits. Think about that, Levi.

And on top of that anywhere any included organisation holds an event. So the social club down the road isn't a problem until one day it puts up a university sponsored party and your clinic is closed. So the affected area is the red area plus everywhere there might ever be young people doing anything.

And you know what? Some of those young people are IV drug users. Who are being excluded from help by this law.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby The Utilitarian » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:21 am UTC

The kind of hurdles things like needle exchanges and safe injection sites are having to jump through in most of the US is really boggling to me. We've had a tremedous amount of success with the safe injection site here in the Vancouver area, I had hoped it would serve has something of an example of how to properly impliment a project like this and the positive effects of it, but evidently it's still a ways away.

Perhaps we can find the appropreate space for a NIMBY project like this after we get the space elevator up and running.
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:38 am UTC

Then we could just put the needle swaps halfway up the space elevator ribbon. Space junkies!

Also, if you're in the Vancouver area, you should be acutely aware that "This has had GREAT SUCCESS in other countries!" has absolutely. zero. weight. when it comes to American politics. They just seem to hear "This is what FOREIGNERS do! SOCIALISM!!!!"

And then vote it down.

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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby Dream » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:52 am UTC

Man, I hear them foreigners are even responsible for actually making the drugs too! Some central Asian foreigners, to be exact. Thank God America would never have anything to do with them!
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Re: A Thousand Feet From Safe Needles.

Postby The Utilitarian » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:08 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Then we could just put the needle swaps halfway up the space elevator ribbon. Space junkies!

Also, if you're in the Vancouver area, you should be acutely aware that "This has had GREAT SUCCESS in other countries!" has absolutely. zero. weight. when it comes to American politics. They just seem to hear "This is what FOREIGNERS do! SOCIALISM!!!!"

And then vote it down.

Right, of course, how foolish of me. Because America is #1, and that inherently means that anything anyone else does is inferior, since they're not #1!

I can hope though, can't I?
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