Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby joshz » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:43 pm UTC

OK, whatever. Pedantry aside, the point still stands.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby scrovak » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:55 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
GoC wrote:Meh. It's one person in a world of 6 billion. I'm not going to give it a second thought.


You are scum


Seconded. And foe'd to try to ignore the fact that there are such wretched, calloused, fucked up people in this world.

I, being the humanitarian optimist I am, like to think the victim blaming is a result of people's inability to comprehend that fellow human beings could possibly be so horrific to each other. If the victim did, in their mind, anything to 'deserve' it, it would lessen the blow to their idealogical views of society.

That said, fuck the victim blamers. And the people out there like GoC. Seriously dude, next time you get kidnapped and slowly flayed and scalped alive, then dipped in salt or some shit like that, don't worry, none of us here will shed a tear. You're just one person in 6 billion right?
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Bulvox » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:01 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:
joshz wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I like to think these people would have been killed very hard and violently if this occurred in Texas. >:\
Even though these people are scum, mob justice--it's, uh, actually not a good thing?

I think it would fall under vigilante justice, rather than mob justice.
Yeah, that's vigilante justice. Mob justice usually involves torches and pitchforks.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Lord Aurora » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:26 am UTC

Mob justice is what /b/ will hopefully do when it finds out who the perpetrators are.

Someone should check up on that.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:36 am UTC

Uhh.

/b/ could just as easily go after the victim. I would prefer that this story not become part of their collective consciousness.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Texas_Ben » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:53 am UTC

Lord Aurora wrote:Mob justice is what /b/ will hopefully do when it finds out who the perpetrators are.

Someone should check up on that.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly the sort of thing /b/ does in the first place. Not the retaliation thing, the watching while it happens thing.

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:11 am UTC

Vieto wrote:According to the wikipedia, in 2002 alone 33/100,000 people got raped in the US alone, or 1 out of every 3030 people.

Where did you find such incredibly low numbers? I find it difficult to believe it dropped by 90% in 5 years, and this pdf puts it at 0.3% of the sample over the previous 12 months.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:30 am UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:/b/ could just as easily go after the victim. I would prefer that this story not become part of their collective consciousness.

Too late. From what I saw, Lord Aurora was unfortunately very incorrect. :(
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Texas_Ben » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:33 am UTC

TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:/b/ could just as easily go after the victim. I would prefer that this story not become part of their collective consciousness.

Too late. From what I saw, Lord Aurora was unfortunately very incorrect. :(

Elaborate please.

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Vieto » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:39 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Vieto wrote:According to the wikipedia, in 2002 alone 33/100,000 people got raped in the US alone, or 1 out of every 3030 people.

Where did you find such incredibly low numbers? I find it difficult to believe it dropped by 90% in 5 years, and this pdf puts it at 0.3% of the sample over the previous 12 months.


The wikipedia. The article is called Rape Statistics, although if that is the actual results, then wikipedia is very optimistic.

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Cynical Idealist » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:42 am UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:
TheSkyMovesSideways wrote:
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:/b/ could just as easily go after the victim. I would prefer that this story not become part of their collective consciousness.

Too late. From what I saw, Lord Aurora was unfortunately very incorrect. :(

Elaborate please.

There was probably a thread with things like "asking for it" thrown around, along with cheering on of the rapists.

Its what /b/ is like.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby PictureSarah » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:42 am UTC

GoC wrote:Meh. It's one person in a world of 6 billion. I'm not going to give it a second thought.


Did you know that globally, women between the ages of 15-44 are more likely to be killed or injured by domestic violence than by cancer, car accidents, malaria, and war combined? Or that 1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime? Do you know 6 women? You might want to give it a second thought.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:59 am UTC

Vieto wrote:The article is called Rape Statistics, although if that is the actual results, then wikipedia is very optimistic.

No, Wikipedia explicitly says those statistics are for rapes which are reported and recorded. Therefore it will be an underestimate for every single country, some more than others. (For example, I strongly doubt rape is twice as prevalent in Canada. Rather, it's probably just reported more there than in the US.)
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby scrovak » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:01 am UTC

PictureSarah wrote:
GoC wrote:Meh. It's one person in a world of 6 billion. I'm not going to give it a second thought.


Did you know that globally, women between the ages of 15-44 are more likely to be killed or injured by domestic violence than by cancer, car accidents, malaria, and war combined? Or that 1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime? Do you know 6 women? You might want to give it a second thought.


She's right. To go into detail she's too classy to go into, and to sink closer to your level than is probably Sarah's comfort, consider your mother, grandmother, sister, daughter, closest female friend, and your wife. Stastically, one of them will get raped.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:07 am UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:Elaborate please.

No. Suffice to say there was a thread relating to this case, the majority of the content of which I would not repeat anywhere, and especially not here.

Anyway, I now have a "0.0.0.0 img.4chan.org" entry in my hosts file. :)
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby clintonius » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:28 am UTC

GoC: aside from the fact that your comments are an obvious example of trolling (lulz check this out guys I'm going to head over to the forum full of people who loathe victim blaming and sexual assault and tell them I don't give a shit about a tragic rape), it was flagrantly offensive to the OP and multiple others who reported your posts. Think twice next time before you decide to voice your dismissal of a topic that drove the OP to tears. And take three days to think about this time.

Everyone else, please move forward and do not address this asshattery any further.

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Angua » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:58 am UTC

This is terrible.

I have a question though, according to the article, as many as 20 people were involved in or watched (about 10-10). They are not allowed to arrest people who only watched. Why then are they expecting to arrest at least 20 people? Hopefully this means that they might be able to arrest the ones who were watching for something.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby scrovak » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:10 am UTC

I think it may have something to do with people going and getting other people to watch. COuld be some sort of criminal mischief, or encouragement, or something of the sort. Perhaps they plan on going for aiding and abetting by way of (im)moral support?
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:31 am UTC

Is there anything forbidding them from arresting them? I'd think that even if charges are only going to stick to a couple, you pull in and interrogate every possible witness for the sake of creating a coherent case.

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby scrovak » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:46 am UTC

True, but if you hold them without charging them with anything, they can sue for unlawful detainment and kidnapping. Their hands are pretty tied as far as what they can actually do, but they're trying, I'm sure. Personally, I think one major concern of their might just be keeping the fucker alive long enough to face trial
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Amarantha » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:54 am UTC

The same day this was in my local newspaper, there was also a story about two girls who were imprisoned and gang-raped by a football team on holiday. This is after the team had been given How To Respect Women presentations. The accused claim they thought it was consensual (apparently you need to barricade the bedroom doors with wardrobes to get consensual sex). I very much had a Faith-in-humanity Fail kind of moment.

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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:31 am UTC

Amarantha wrote:The same day this was in my local newspaper, there was also a story about two girls who were imprisoned and gang-raped by a football team on holiday. This is after the team had been given How To Respect Women presentations. The accused claim they thought it was consensual (apparently you need to barricade the bedroom doors with wardrobes to get consensual sex). I very much had a Faith-in-humanity Fail kind of moment.

wow, first paragraph:
"this is so out of character for these boys"

Yeah, I bet. So totally strange that they would think to do this.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby scrovak » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:38 am UTC

I'm personally in favor of physical castration for all found guilty of these sorts of brutal rapes.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby el_loco_avs » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:47 am UTC

These kinds of things shock everytime you hear about them.

What's worse is realizing this isn't even that rare, probably. And that most other times it's not even reported.


And. Argh. We, as a race, totally suck.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Diadem » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:47 am UTC

Belial wrote:To say nothing about how this speaks about larger social phenomena, ie, that we live in a world where this sort of thing can and does happen. That whole "rape culture" thing.

We've always lived in a world where this sort of thing can happen. Not too long ago this sort of thing was accepted. Go back a bit further and it was officially sanctioned entertainment. In some parts of the world it still is. Considering that, I don't think our culture is doing so bad. Though I admit it could be better.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby scrovak » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:52 am UTC

I think it all comes down to society's reaction to these sorts of events, as societies' changing views of the events have gone from entertainment to our current state reflects an apparent (hopefully) decrease in the events themselves (not total, but by percentage of the population).

A major milestone would be the elimination of victim blaming. As soon as that is done away with, we will have moved significantly forward as a society.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Belial » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:07 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:We've always lived in a world where this sort of thing can happen. Not too long ago this sort of thing was accepted. Go back a bit further and it was officially sanctioned entertainment. In some parts of the world it still is. Considering that, I don't think our culture is doing so bad. Though I admit it could be better.


Which changes nothing about the danger and injustice of the situation. "We aren't quite as gung-ho about gang-rape anymore, as a culture (but still pretty gung-ho)" is not grounds for self-congratulation.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:17 pm UTC

Should I change my signature back to that quote like, "You totally didn't just brutally kill that puppy just now! Here, have a cookie!" ?
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Diadem » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:32 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Diadem wrote:We've always lived in a world where this sort of thing can happen. Not too long ago this sort of thing was accepted. Go back a bit further and it was officially sanctioned entertainment. In some parts of the world it still is. Considering that, I don't think our culture is doing so bad. Though I admit it could be better.


Which changes nothing about the danger and injustice of the situation. "We aren't quite as gung-ho about gang-rape anymore, as a culture (but still pretty gung-ho)" is not grounds for self-congratulation.

*blink* *blink*
Of course it is grounds for self-congratulation. You're doing better than you've ever done before. That's not grounds for optimisim? I agree it's not grounds for self-complacency, especially since America is still far behind other parts of the world. But people in this thread seem to take the other extreme. Horrible as this incident is, it does not proof that we live in a horrible culture. In fact I'd say the fact that this is an incident rather than the norm, and that people are disgusted by it, rather than amused, is proof that your culture is not that bad.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Decker » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:43 pm UTC

Two problems with that.

1. A lot of people here belive that it says pretty shitty things about our culture that it could happen AT ALL. So self-congradulation is not appropriate here.

2. Even if it was, it can be difficult to have self-congradulation WITHOUT complacency, and that's a risk no one here wants to take.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Belial » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:46 pm UTC

In fact I'd say the fact that this is an incident rather than the norm, and that people are disgusted by it, rather than amused, is proof that your culture is not that bad.


The randomly selected crowd of people who wandered by seemed pretty amused.

And the rest of our culture is taking turns blaming the victim.

Yeah, no, still the rape culture. I'll be game for all the self-congratulatory backslapping when we're not actively producing, encouraging, and excusing rapists (mustering a collective murmur of discomfort and disapproval only when the most depraved of their actions are carried into the light of polite society). Not acceptable.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby TheSkyMovesSideways » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:40 pm UTC

Amarantha wrote:The same day this was in my local newspaper [...]

Yeah, saw that too. :x

In related, but somewhat more positive news, this sounds like a good thing.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Telchar » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:03 pm UTC

Actually this happens quite a lot, we just get more shocked when it happens with rape and not car accidents or heart attacks. People don't want to do something because they assume someone else will. That's why shouting at a crowd of people for help is bad, pointing fingers and directing people to do something is good.Although, the going and getting other people things isn't common at all and is probably an indicator of a larger problem for at least some of the spectators.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Monika » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:44 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I agree it's not grounds for self-complacency, especially since America is still far behind other parts of the world.

I don't think America is behind on that. In Europe people stare at traffic accidents just the same, do not help people who collapse on the street, do not come when someone screams for help (they also say here: If you need help, scream fire) and so on, and I can imagine that, depending on the situation, people would ignore a rape instead of call the police. I can't imagine people getting other people to watch and join in the raping - but I can't imagine this for the US, either, and as it happened there, I fear it's not impossible here, either, unfortunately.

There is one difference in the "watch and stare behavior" though. In the US when a fight broke out students would actually run there to watch. They would scream "Oh no oh god", but they would climb on the cafeteria tables to see better. They also ran across the 8-lane highway directly in front of my school to get to see the fight on the other side more closely, ignoring traffic, and again all the time screaming how bad it was. This was really strange.

Anyway, this could explain why more people would come to watch when they see others watching, but not why nobody sneaks away and calls the police or notifies one of the adults that surely must have been inside during the school dance. I can understand not being brave enough to intervene directly (I probably wouldn't, trying to get four guys off a girl seems dangerous) or not daring to call the police on the cellphone within earshot of the gangrapers, but I cannot understand why nobody went away to call or went back in.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:51 pm UTC

Things like car accidents are accidents. I don't know anyone who can say they 'accidentally' raped someone unconscious or they don't know who that person got trapped in that room (before or after they pushed a heavy thing in front of it).

And calling to people specifically does not always work. There was a woman (in the 70's) I think who was raped and stabbed to death in the park by her house. She could see the lights on in her neighbor's windows, and since it was summer and their windows were open she called out to them specifically for help. No one did a thing.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Box Boy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:34 pm UTC

"We're not going to abandon our boys, we're going to stick by them and ... make sure that they're looked after and helped out and get the help that they need to get through," he said.

If he is talking about the boys who didn't do anything and weren't involved but must live with the guilt of what they could have prevented (And I pray to God at least one of them are like this and they aren't all sick fucks) I can begrudge him that they might need support.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Bulvox » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:00 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:"We're not going to abandon our boys, we're going to stick by them and ... make sure that they're looked after and helped out and get the help that they need to get through," he said.

If he is talking about the boys who didn't do anything and weren't involved but must live with the guilt of what they could have prevented (And I pray to God at least one of them are like this and they aren't all sick fucks) I can begrudge him that they might need support.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Box Boy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:04 pm UTC

*sigh*

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Belial
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby Belial » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:15 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:"We're not going to abandon our boys, we're going to stick by them and ... make sure that they're looked after and helped out and get the help that they need to get through," he said.

If he is talking about the boys who didn't do anything and weren't involved but must live with the guilt of what they could have prevented (And I pray to God at least one of them are like this and they aren't all sick fucks) I can begrudge him that they might need support.
If he's talking about the rapists, I'm going to stab his damn face off with a spork


BFP makes the very compelling point that things like gangrape and organized acts of violence are often initiation rites or other such things, and that nonparticipation or objection is often dangerous to the participants. In other words, it's possible that one or more of the rapists didn't want to rape this girl, or was even disgusted and horrified by what they were doing, but entertained a very real fear that the other men in their group would hurt or kill them if they dissented or refused to participate.

I mean, these are people who would publicly and violently gangrape a 15-year-old. It's not a big stretch to assume they'd be willing to cave your skull in if you pissed them off. So if you're that rapist, imagine how you feel? Nothing compared to what the girl feels (holy shit fuck no), but you're going to have hell of issues. And basically no one is going to want to hear about them.

Like all things, it's maddeningly more complicated than it appears.
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Re: Humans sicken me [TRIGGER WARNING: RAPE]

Postby mmmcannibalism » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:24 pm UTC

BFP makes the very compelling point that things like gangrape and organized acts of violence are often initiation rites or other such things, and that nonparticipation or objection is often dangerous to the participants. In other words, it's possible that one or more of the rapists didn't want to rape this girl, or was even disgusted and horrified by what they were doing, but entertained a very real fear that the other men in their group would hurt or kill them if they dissented or refused to participate.

I mean, these are people who would publicly and violently gangrape a 15-year-old. It's not a big stretch to assume they'd be willing to cave your skull in if you pissed them off. So if you're that rapist, imagine how you feel? Nothing compared to what the girl feels (holy shit fuck no), but you're going to have hell of issues. And basically no one is going to want to hear about them.

Like all things, it's maddeningly more complicated than it appears.


While that is entirely plausible; I fail to see why we should protect someone who would commit an atrocity to protect themself from hypothetical harm.
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