Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Mystify
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:42 am UTC
Location: XXXX

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Mystify » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:26 am UTC

Owijad wrote:The chain wasn't a safety hazard, and no one legitimately thought it was.

Maurog wrote:Source
Tasha is allowed to hold her own lead when they catch a bus so she doesn’t get hurt when it jerks to a halt.


Personally, I don't like media circuses. As much as the bus driver was in the wrong, as much as they have every right to walk around dressing in ways that make them feel good (so long as I don't have to look at your bits, keep that at home please), I really wish we didn't live in the kind of voyeuristic society that needs to splash this sort of thing all over the news.

M
You're eternally wild with the power
To make every moment come alive

Angelene
relax, I'll handle the zippers
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:29 am UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Angelene » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:46 am UTC

Yes, I agree. I'm entirely against heightening awareness of the continued rampancy of bigotry in society. Actually, I'm against heightened awareness in general. The media should be obliterated and all news sources destroyed.
"Some people need a red carpet rolled out in front of them in order to walk forward into friendship. They can't see the tiny outstretched hands all around them, everywhere, like leaves on trees."

User avatar
Mystify
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:42 am UTC
Location: XXXX

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Mystify » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:37 am UTC

Wow, sarcasm much?

But, to pander to you regardless: I am referring to the way that these stories are blown completely out of proportion. No one knows what really went on, and we're all sitting here making judgement calls on partial information.

I don't think that what the bus driver did was right, but I also don't think that there is any need to make sensationalistic journalism out of the issue either.

M
You're eternally wild with the power
To make every moment come alive

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Dream » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:10 pm UTC

What's been blown out of proportion here? It's one news story, on one incident. I didn't see these guys on the covers of any newspapers this week. Nor have I come across them in chat at work or elsewhere online. No one is screaming for massive damages, nor are they making this into "the world vs. goths everywhere". The goths had a perfectly measured and calm response to the issue, and the media wrote a story about it. Nothing it out of proportion.
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:15 pm UTC

Owijad wrote:It is absolutely a hate crime.

No it is not. If you take that line of reasoning, any time someone makes fun of someone else, they're committing a hate crime, and I don't think that's the case here.
Maurog wrote:Uh, she's getting an education of sorts. Does anyone read the links people attach, or are they just for show? Admittedly, 2 days of education a week isn't much, but what the heck, she's 19. And nowhere did it say that she is living off welfare. Only that he does. The rest is pure speculation. For all we know she has 0 income. Like a pet.

I'm not the only one imagining her at obedience training learning to shake hands and bark on command am I?

User avatar
Gunfingers
Posts: 2401
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm UTC

Not anymore...



Also, i'd like to throw myself in with the group that says "We have every right to call these guys tools." I'd join in calling them "tossers", but a haven't the foggiest idea what that is.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Belial » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:29 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
Owijad wrote:It is absolutely a hate crime.

No it is not. If you take that line of reasoning, any time someone makes fun of someone else, they're committing a hate crime, and I don't think that's the case here.


I assumed Owijad was referring to the assault.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:25 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:
Owijad wrote:It is absolutely a hate crime.

No it is not. If you take that line of reasoning, any time someone makes fun of someone else, they're committing a hate crime, and I don't think that's the case here.


I assumed Owijad was referring to the assault.

Oh okay that might be.

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby 22/7 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:18 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:I'm not the only one imagining her at obedience training learning to shake hands and bark on command am I?

Thanks for that. You are officially the reason that I'll be muffling laughter during class and work today.
Belial wrote:I assumed Owijad was referring to the assault.
Assuming they were actually assaulted, I'm ok with tacking on the "hate-" status.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:24 pm UTC

Assault is one of those interesting words that influences our perception of the events. Like using the word 'shattered' in a car accident to make people think it was significantly worse. Mr. Graves said the bus driver grabbed his shirt and pushed him backwards. To me, that doesn't sound like assault. Not a kosher way to conduct yourself, and certainly not a legitimate way to handle the situation, but tacking 'assault' to someone who pushed someone away seems a bit sensationalist. If getting pushed makes for assault, then I am both highly abused, and highly abusive in my public transit endeavors.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Belial » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:30 pm UTC

What makes the difference between "a hostile push" and "assault" is pretty much the willingness to press charges.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
jestingrabbit
Factoids are just Datas that haven't grown up yet
Posts: 5967
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm UTC
Location: Sydney

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby jestingrabbit » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:39 pm UTC

You put your hands on someone, and they don't want you to, that's assault (laws in your jurisdiction may differ). Keep your hands to yourselves ladies and gentlemen.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

Angelene
relax, I'll handle the zippers
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:29 am UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Angelene » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

jestingrabbit wrote:You put your hands on someone, and they don't want you to, that's assault (laws in your jurisdiction may differ). Keep your hands to yourselves ladies and gentlemen.



Nay I'm pretty sure that's the universally recognised legal definition of physical assault.
"Some people need a red carpet rolled out in front of them in order to walk forward into friendship. They can't see the tiny outstretched hands all around them, everywhere, like leaves on trees."

User avatar
Gunfingers
Posts: 2401
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:41 pm UTC

My understanding was that that was "battery" and "assault" is when you threaten to lay hands on someone. Did my karate instructor lie to me?

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Belial » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

No, you would appear to be correct
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them


User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Belial » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:55 pm UTC

It is, however, the legal definition of battery. The two terms get confused a lot.

And it helps that you can pretty much always attach assault onto battery.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

Angelene
relax, I'll handle the zippers
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:29 am UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Angelene » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:02 pm UTC

Ah, yeah, well assault is the intent, and battery the act, but now the term battery doesn't exist here anymore, it all falls under assault.
"Some people need a red carpet rolled out in front of them in order to walk forward into friendship. They can't see the tiny outstretched hands all around them, everywhere, like leaves on trees."

The Mighty Thesaurus
In your library, eating your students
Posts: 4399
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:47 am UTC
Location: The Daily Bugle

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:06 pm UTC

CaraInFrames wrote:Ah, yeah, well assault is the intent, and battery the act, but now the term battery doesn't exist here anymore, it all falls under assault.


It doesn't? How do you power your flying machines?
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

User avatar
Memo
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:36 pm UTC
Location: Chile
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Memo » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:07 pm UTC

She's pretty. The leash makes her hot.

Why are you people still discussing this? :P

tylerwylie
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:23 am UTC
Location: Champaign, IL
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby tylerwylie » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:08 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
CaraInFrames wrote:Ah, yeah, well assault is the intent, and battery the act, but now the term battery doesn't exist here anymore, it all falls under assault.


It doesn't? How do you power your flying machines?

AAA Assaults of course. :roll:
Who are you and who am I
To say we know the reason why?
Some are born; some men die
Beneath one infinite sky.
There'll be war, there'll be peace.
But everything one day will cease.
All the iron turned to rust;
All the proud men turned to dust.

User avatar
Okita
Staying Alive
Posts: 3071
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:51 pm UTC
Location: Finance land.

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Okita » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:38 am UTC

Okay so from my understanding Assault and Battery charges are different between the US and England which I think may cause some confusion.

From my understanding, in England and Wales, a lawyer could technically make it a case for assault. The fishy points gets around how threatening the bus driver was. A lot of it has to do with intent and the fear of physical violence but that's ambiguous based upon the article.

Basically, yes, you can claim assault and hate crime based upon the technicality of the law but I'm not sure how well it would work out. Still, I doubt there's legal precedence for that sort of thing and I'm doubtful a judge would actually make it a precedence.

Sidenote: Additional article apparently involving an interview with the girl's mum: http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headlin ... _page.html
"I may or may not be a raptor. There is no way of knowing until entering a box that I happen to be in and then letting me sunder the delicious human flesh from your body in reptile fury."

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:02 am UTC

Tasha and Dani are both devoted goths, a youth cult based on whips and chains, old horror movies and pasty-faced pop stars like The Damned and Siouxie and the Banshees.


and

At least she's not out wearing a hoodie like some other kids


BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Is hoodie colloquial for something in the UK that isn't translating well?

...
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:10 am UTC

The describes fans of the Rocky Horror Picture Show very well...

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:00 am UTC

Tasha and Dani are both devoted goths, a youth cult based on whips and chains, old horror movies and pasty-faced pop stars like The Damned and Siouxie and the Banshees.


I....guess one-and-a-half out of three isn't bad...
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

tylerwylie
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:23 am UTC
Location: Champaign, IL
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby tylerwylie » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:11 am UTC

At least she's not out wearing a hoodie like some other kids


BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Is hoodie colloquial for something in the UK that isn't translating well?

...
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Eh, I'd prefer her wear a hoodie as she is kinda ugly.
Who are you and who am I
To say we know the reason why?
Some are born; some men die
Beneath one infinite sky.
There'll be war, there'll be peace.
But everything one day will cease.
All the iron turned to rust;
All the proud men turned to dust.

User avatar
Jesse
Vocal Terrorist
Posts: 8635
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Basingstoke, England.
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Jesse » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:21 am UTC

In the UK wearing a hoodie is often a sign that you are a 'chav', these are youths, often poor, who spend their nights drinking cheap cider, vandalising things and often assaulting/mugging people; so the quote makes sense.

User avatar
Mystify
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:42 am UTC
Location: XXXX

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Mystify » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:20 am UTC

Jesse wrote:In the UK wearing a hoodie is often a sign that you are a 'chav', these are youths, often poor, who spend their nights drinking cheap cider, vandalising things and often assaulting/mugging people; so the quote makes sense.

See also: Hot Fuzz

M

I <3 that movie.
You're eternally wild with the power
To make every moment come alive

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:43 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Sidenote: Additional article apparently involving an interview with the girl's mum: http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headlin ... _page.html

Becka spoke out after 19-year-old Tasha hit the headlines when she was bannedfrom a bus because her boyfriend had her on a lead.

Goth Tasha sparked a wave of nationwide howling by proudly announcing she loved being the pet of 25-year-old Dani Graves.

But Becka, 36, admitted to The People: "I realise it must be some mums' worst nightmare and I'll never forget the first time I saw her on her lead.

Well that explains a lot.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:09 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:In the UK wearing a hoodie is often a sign that you are a 'chav', these are youths, often poor, who spend their nights drinking cheap cider, vandalising things and often assaulting/mugging people; so the quote makes sense.


I...but I like my hoodies....Crap, I can't move to the UK.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Sprocket
Seymour
Posts: 5951
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:04 pm UTC
Location: impaled on Beck's boney hips.
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Sprocket » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

Seriously. Everyone wears hoodies here. Cuz they are super awesome. Everyone from those blonde and pink wearing little 'sporty (read - probably wanted to be a cheerleader)' girls, to every college student evAr, to indi rockers, to young professionals on their way home from work.

All in all, I'm surprised at Allisto's view on this. Who cares? It's two people riding a bus, you let drug dealers on your bus without knowing they're drug dealers. You let drunk idiots on your bus who harras people. Let some stupid gothy kids on your bus. Who care what they're into. It's not like they're making you have kinky sex with them.

But the papers definition of Goth is really quite narrow and not at all accurate, and pretty rediculous. I think the word they were looking for was Sado-Masochist, the way their deffinition reads.
Last edited by Sprocket on Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:32 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
"She’s a free spirit, a wind-rider, she’s at one with nature, and walks with the kodama eidolons”
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Zohar wrote: Down with the hipster binary! It's a SPECTRUM!

User avatar
davef
NomNomNommin' the Rockenclature!
Posts: 1767
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:56 pm UTC
Location: The Ice Pit!
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby davef » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:29 pm UTC

As long as you don't wear one of these with your hoodie, you're not a chav -

burberry.jpg
burberry.jpg (35.54 KiB) Viewed 1862 times



Also - what CatProx said re: the bus.
Ciúnas, bóthar, cailín, bainne.

User avatar
Sprocket
Seymour
Posts: 5951
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:04 pm UTC
Location: impaled on Beck's boney hips.
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Sprocket » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:42 pm UTC

Yeah, that whole plaid being thug thing is really messed up. The plaid shorts go in too, with the really long t-shirts and the stupid little gold or silver chain necklace. :-P YICKY!
"She’s a free spirit, a wind-rider, she’s at one with nature, and walks with the kodama eidolons”
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Zohar wrote: Down with the hipster binary! It's a SPECTRUM!

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby 22/7 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:17 pm UTC

I don't understand paying, what, $100, $200? for a hat and then only drinking cheap cider. I mean, where are your priorities?
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:28 pm UTC

Obviously in your appearance. Thugs aren't the only people whose sin is vanity... Well, one of their sins anyway.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

Bluecold
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:13 pm UTC

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Bluecold » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:32 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:I don't understand paying, what, $100, $200? for a hat and then only drinking cheap cider. I mean, where are your priorities?

Wrong, most of those caps are bought from a nigerian selling them together with prada bags on the street in Italy for a special price just for them.

User avatar
ekzrated
Posts: 458
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:42 pm UTC
Location: Material plane. Sometimes.
Contact:

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby ekzrated » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:38 pm UTC

As much as I hate to admit it..... I'm very curious to see what the girl looks like. If only my work-internet connection wasn't so restricted!
I'M MY OWN CASE-STUDY!!!!!!

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:43 pm UTC

I'd rate her intrigue somewhere between a dreidel and a stoplight. Good for a passing glance. I'd consider giving her a whirl, but you know, probably get bored quickly anyway.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Dream » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:46 pm UTC

Image
On the right: Hoodie. On the left: Leader of the conservative party.

Chavs go in for the glamming up thing, but hoodie is a more generic, less offensive term for any delinquent teenager ahnging around on the streets, looking vaguely like the guy in the photo. (The guy on the right, that is...)
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Bus Driver Refuses to Allow Goth "Freaks" on Bus

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:50 pm UTC

God wiggers are tossers.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: orthogon, Zamfir and 19 guests