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Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:44 am UTC
by reval
The main good thing about Paris was that the Germans nearly got a statement that "ultimate goal is zero fossil carbon use" in there. They didn't, and the Paris commitments look meaningless in themselves, but the idea seemed to actually shift the Overton window.

That means that "zero fossil carbon" is part of the debate now, and it wasn't earlier. That's a win regardless of anything Trump says or does. And if Trump makes enough of a fool of himself, the blowback might even help shift the debate further the right way.

The important part is material progress in the technological and economic shift to wind and solar. That part is actually happening. The leaders will eventually follow - late as usual.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:17 am UTC
by Magnanimous
Liri wrote:Along with that corollary, it'll hopefully fire up businesses, states, cities etc to continue and ramp-up what action they can.

The governors of California, Washington, and New York have committed their states to following the Paris accords. Link Hopefully other states will join in.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:14 am UTC
by sardia
Magnanimous wrote:
Liri wrote:Along with that corollary, it'll hopefully fire up businesses, states, cities etc to continue and ramp-up what action they can.

The governors of California, Washington, and New York have committed their states to following the Paris accords. Link Hopefully other states will join in.

Unless they agree to cut more to make up for the red states (or tax polluting states) it doesn't mean as much.
I know we like to make fun of Trump for his incompetence, but Price and Sessions are gonna do a number on the world. And this is without the courts weighing in yet. Trump will probably get a full 4 years of GOP cramming conservative judges into 2/3rds of the US courts.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:38 am UTC
by Zamfir
The important part is material progress in the technological and economic shift to wind and solar. That part is actually happening. The leaders will eventually follow - late as usual.

That's a bit unfair, I think. That progress in renewable energy doesn't fall from the sky, it's paid for by the encouragement programs that many countries (and their leaders) have set up.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:27 am UTC
by Obby
Magnanimous wrote:
Liri wrote:Along with that corollary, it'll hopefully fire up businesses, states, cities etc to continue and ramp-up what action they can.

The governors of California, Washington, and New York have committed their states to following the Paris accords. Link Hopefully other states will join in.

Cities are starting to join as well. Philadelphia's mayor Jim Kenney just announced he would accelerate plans to enact the Accord details within the city.

There's no details yet, so it may just be lip service, but it's a good starting point I think.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:45 am UTC
by Chen
Really there was worry that the US pulling out would cause others (like China) to also pull out. Instead of using it as an opportunity to get out though, it seems the other nations (including China) are using it as a way to "stick it" to the US and try to show they are "better". Works for me anyways. As KE said though, even staying in, there's nothing forcing any of these countries to do anything about it. We'll see what actually comes from it.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:15 pm UTC
by sardia
Chen wrote:Really there was worry that the US pulling out would cause others (like China) to also pull out. Instead of using it as an opportunity to get out though, it seems the other nations (including China) are using it as a way to "stick it" to the US and try to show they are "better". Works for me anyways. As KE said though, even staying in, there's nothing forcing any of these countries to do anything about it. We'll see what actually comes from it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/us/p ... rship.html
Trump gives away US leadership to the Chinese.

The problem with China taking over is that the Chinese leadership talk big, but don't do anything they weren't going to do anyway. They get to continue their rise to power but for free.
I'm not sure if Trump is merely a symptom of the US acknowledging it's decline or if Trump is accelerating the decline in US power. It's hard to tell. Not that Trump is smart enough to recognize the strings he dances under, but it's strange to watch the US pull out of the global order so easily and without any conservatives media calling it out. You'd think with the obsession​ with American exceptionalism, they'd care more about it.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:28 pm UTC
by Zohar
I'm reminded of Watchmen, and how Trump might be the giant space alien tentacle monster the (rest of the) world needed to unite against.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:49 pm UTC
by Mutex
Zohar wrote:I'm reminded of Watchmen, and how Trump might be the giant space alien tentacle monster the (rest of the) world needed to unite against.

I just finished reading Watchmen, and the similarity struck me too.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:13 pm UTC
by ucim
Trump is willing to "negotiate" his exit from the Paris accord, calling world leaders to "explain" his position. World leaders should look him in the eye and say "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Jose

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:01 pm UTC
by speising
I still hope Trump's playing some kind of Devils Advocate.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:52 pm UTC
by GloriousAlligator
ucim wrote:Trump is willing to "negotiate" his exit from the Paris accord, calling world leaders to "explain" his position. World leaders should look him in the eye and say "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Jose


And what IS his position? :roll:

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:02 pm UTC
by Thesh
America.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:13 pm UTC
by Mutex
Well, if Putin wanted Trump to be elected in order to bring down the American led world order, he's certainly getting his way isn't he?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:09 pm UTC
by KnightExemplar
Thesh wrote:America.


Somewhat gets it.

The only problem is that its a false dialog and false patriotism. Trump's criticisms against the Paris agreement have no factual basis in reality. But if you say "AMERICA" strongly enough, perhaps people get riled up and like what you say.

If Trump really wants to benefit America, how about pulling Ivanka Trump's line of shoe manufacturing out of China and back to America?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:16 pm UTC
by ucim
GloriousAlligator wrote:And what IS his position? :roll:
"I'm president, and you're not."

Jose

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:34 pm UTC
by sardia
GloriousAlligator wrote:
ucim wrote:Trump is willing to "negotiate" his exit from the Paris accord, calling world leaders to "explain" his position. World leaders should look him in the eye and say "we don't negotiate with terrorists".

Jose


And what IS his position? :roll:

His position is Trump first, then his base, then Republicans, and then the country. There's been a couple examples where he's put Republicans or country first but it's strongly hinted that if he hadn't, they would have hurt Trump.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:14 am UTC
by Grop
A few weeks ago, I heard someone from French government say that they wouldn't negociate with Trump on this topic. They said they weren't interested in a lose-lose agreement, whatever that means. But it certainly makes no sense for countries that care about ecology to be nice with countries that don't, just because they don't.

(Well what was said about terrorists).

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:36 pm UTC
by sardia
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de ... verywhere/
Latest update on Democratic midterm reversion for elections. The new average is now +14 towards the Democrats using 2016 numbers. This is above the 7 point opposition swing that is average but not nearly as good as the 16 point tea party swing in 2010.
I'm curious why they didn't include the special house elections in their average. Still, the ground work is being laid for a huge shift in power in the coming decade. (winning 2018 means you're​more likely to control redistricting in 2020, which means you'll get a boost in Congress for the next 10 years).
Now all this is too early to celebrate, and there's plenty of damage that will be done before Trump can even begin to be neutralized. And there's still the rest of the Republicans to worry about.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:27 pm UTC
by Angua
Trump renews feud with London Mayor.

My default thought is 'WTF is he thinking?' then I realise this is Trump.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:12 pm UTC
by Jumble
I'm still not really allowed to have an opinion (although he's not my president (thank fuck!)) so I'll just leave this here. You can help by keeping your mouth shut, Trump told. Britain has responded to Donald Trump’s offer of help by suggesting he stops saying words with his mouth.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:31 pm UTC
by Chen
Is it a tad misleading to say "Britain" said that when it's just some random person from London?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:56 pm UTC
by Jumble
I think you'll find it's a random made up person from London. However, in this case the joy of #fakenews is that we can confidently predict this reflects the views of every man, woman and child in the UK, except for one living in No. 10 Downing Street, Whitehall, London, SW1. (shit, I'm definitely not allowed to say that....).

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:52 am UTC
by Soupspoon
Philip May?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:14 am UTC
by Mutex
Jumble wrote:I'm still not really allowed to have an opinion (although he's not my president (thank fuck!)) so I'll just leave this here. You can help by keeping your mouth shut, Trump told. Britain has responded to Donald Trump’s offer of help by suggesting he stops saying words with his mouth.

It's getting harder and harder to tell real news headlines from The Daily Mash.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:47 pm UTC
by kingofdreams
mays backed khan but there will be no repercussions. atlanticism is bigger than one man-shaped knot of contradictions separation from reality. no matter how poorly aimed and conceived his rants are.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:30 pm UTC
by Jumble
So we are expected to understand.

I honestly prefer the Daily Mash to the UK printed press these days. I think it's both more accurate and honest.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:36 am UTC
by sardia
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/us/p ... trump.html
Sessions Is Said to Have Offered His Resignation
The attorney general told Mr. Trump that he needed the freedom to do his job, according to two people who were briefed on the discussion.

Trump has refused to accept it, and Sessions will continue to work. This is disappointing, but it does confirm rumors that Sessions was unhappy with how Trump was treating him. And that the Russia coverup is making him angry/nervous.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:52 pm UTC
by Liri

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:23 am UTC
by sardia

It's very good, but none of the Republicans are realizing it, at least in public. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/em ... testimony/

Side note: Nate keeps saying it's obvious who's leaking various stories, but I was confused as to who could be leaking besides Comey and how to connect it to other stories. Like he was saying how obvious that Kushner and Ivanka leaked that one story and I had no idea which story he was talking about. Maybe that rumor that Ivanka was fighting for the Paris agreement or various liberal causes? I googled it and the only thing that came up was that Bannon leaked the stories about Kushner and Russia. Anybody have any ideas?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:41 am UTC
by Dark567
I don't know exactly which one he is referring too, but here is a general method on deciding who is leaking what:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... te_to.html

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:39 am UTC
by Liri
sardia wrote:

It's very good, but none of the Republicans are realizing it, at least in public. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/em ... testimony/

Side note: Nate keeps saying it's obvious who's leaking various stories, but I was confused as to who could be leaking besides Comey and how to connect it to other stories. Like he was saying how obvious that Kushner and Ivanka leaked that one story and I had no idea which story he was talking about. Maybe that rumor that Ivanka was fighting for the Paris agreement or various liberal causes? I googled it and the only thing that came up was that Bannon leaked the stories about Kushner and Russia. Anybody have any ideas?

I saw a brief reference to the Ivanka/Jareds being the source of some things, but I don't remember where (might've been one of Nate's articles).

Listening to it, yeah - he thought it was comically obvious it was them. I'll try to find something.

Mmk. Nate and others think leaks from Ivanka and her slumlord hubby are given to Politico in exchange for favorable coverage of their """moderating influence"""".

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:52 am UTC
by sardia
Cravenly taking conservative positions to enrich themselves makes sense to me. But this is really stupid. And why are the reporters even using them as a source? They should just throw them under the bus next time Trump demands to know the source of all these leaks.

Anyway, it appears that Trumplanders are still loyal to the president, there's just less of them (a few percentage points). It sorta helps that Comey said that Trump wasn't under investigation and the other intelligence officials refused to answer.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:40 am UTC
by Ingolifs
"He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, "

So was this a standing rumour from the campaign, or did Trump just say this on the spot?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:50 am UTC
by Mutex
There was a story going around involving Trump, some Russian sex-workers, a hotel room, and lots of urine. One theory is that Putin has blackmail material on Trump although I don't think there's any actual evidence of that.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:51 pm UTC
by EdgarJPublius
Liri wrote:
sardia wrote:

It's very good, but none of the Republicans are realizing it, at least in public. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/em ... testimony/

Side note: Nate keeps saying it's obvious who's leaking various stories, but I was confused as to who could be leaking besides Comey and how to connect it to other stories. Like he was saying how obvious that Kushner and Ivanka leaked that one story and I had no idea which story he was talking about. Maybe that rumor that Ivanka was fighting for the Paris agreement or various liberal causes? I googled it and the only thing that came up was that Bannon leaked the stories about Kushner and Russia. Anybody have any ideas?

I saw a brief reference to the Ivanka/Jareds being the source of some things, but I don't remember where (might've been one of Nate's articles).

Listening to it, yeah - he thought it was comically obvious it was them. I'll try to find something.

Mmk. Nate and others think leaks from Ivanka and her slumlord hubby are given to Politico in exchange for favorable coverage of their """moderating influence"""".


That wouldn't surprise me. Ivanka shows a lot more political canniness than President Trump. There were several points during the campaign where I got the distinct impression her involvement was as much or more about serving her political ambitions as his.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:09 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
Ingolifs wrote:"He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, "


So... where was he involved with the hookers?

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:56 am UTC
by Liri
That was a heck of a hearing.

Spoiler:
It looks like the argument that Palin would be a "heartbeat away from the presidency" bore out. Eeesh.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:46 pm UTC
by ObsessoMom
Wait, what?

I can't keep up.

Re: Trump presidency

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:03 pm UTC
by Dark567
ObsessoMom wrote:Wait, what?

I can't keep up.
John McCain looked incredibly senile during the Comey hearing.