Trump presidency

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Thu May 25, 2017 3:10 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Apparently, the issue was that they projected a 2 trillion dollar growth, which they then used to give the richest Americans a tax cut -- a tax cut that they claim is the source of that projected 2 trillion dollar growth. They're justifying their projections by using those projections to pay for the things that will cause those projections to be accurate. Kind of like saying "I'm going to make tons of money by investing in this company with all the money I'll make after I invest in this company". You can't write off the cost of an investment with the projected growth of that investment.


That's not precisely it. They argued the tax cut would be revenue neutral due to the growth. So the $2 trillion lost in taxes over the 10 years will be offset by the $2 trillion in growth. That's a fairly bold assumption but it's not the "mistake" they're talking about. You said "you can't write off the cost of an investment with the projected growth of that investment" but they do that all the time in budgets where growth is assumed.

The actual error is the budget also calls on the same $2 trillion in growth to pay for spending over the next 10 years. The way it was presented was the opposite, but the effect is the same. They said "our tax cuts are going to fuel economic growth which will let us have a balanced budget in 10 years". The problem was, the tax cuts needed that growth to pay for themselves, so basically you're double-counting the growth. Which means you'd need $4 trillion in growth to cover both the tax cuts and the spending.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Thu May 25, 2017 3:13 pm UTC

RCT Bob wrote:It's like Trump doesn't even have the faintest idea of what actually fuels terrorism beyond 'they're just crazy evil guys we need to fight'.


Hit the nail on the head. Pretty sure this is the same dept that Trump understands all problems.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6598
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Thu May 25, 2017 3:17 pm UTC

Isn't that the whole point of the "radical Islam" talking point? Republican propaganda paints it as a purely religious war, and any attempt to understand the conflict beyond that is completely rejected as apology for terrorism.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Thu May 25, 2017 3:20 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Hit the nail on the head. Pretty sure this is the same dept that Trump understands all problems.


Much as I like the Trump bashing, choosing Israel and Saudi Arabia over Iran is not simply a Trump failing but US failing. This has always been US policy. The state department has Iran as one of the top state sponsors of terrorism in the world. That's been the case for ages and it's despite the nuclear deal that was brokered under Obama.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7368
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu May 25, 2017 4:11 pm UTC

idonno wrote:Maybe I'm missing what you are saying but your example seems like the common practice of paying off debt on an asset from the revenue the asset generates. According to my reading of the article, what is happening is more like planning to buy a company with the tons of money the company will generate while simultaneously planning to buy a yacht with the money already being spent to buy the company. The revenue source is secondary (although that is pretty dubious in and of itself) to the fact that the budget spends it twice.
Chen wrote:That's not precisely it. They argued the tax cut would be revenue neutral due to the growth. So the $2 trillion lost in taxes over the 10 years will be offset by the $2 trillion in growth. That's a fairly bold assumption but it's not the "mistake" they're talking about. You said "you can't write off the cost of an investment with the projected growth of that investment" but they do that all the time in budgets where growth is assumed.

The actual error is the budget also calls on the same $2 trillion in growth to pay for spending over the next 10 years. The way it was presented was the opposite, but the effect is the same. They said "our tax cuts are going to fuel economic growth which will let us have a balanced budget in 10 years". The problem was, the tax cuts needed that growth to pay for themselves, so basically you're double-counting the growth. Which means you'd need $4 trillion in growth to cover both the tax cuts and the spending.
Pardon -- and yes, this makes more sense in retrospect. Thank you for the clarification!

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri May 26, 2017 2:27 am UTC

http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/mo ... -election/
Looks like the bodyslammer GOP Candidate is on his way to victory. The only thing left to check is his margin of victory, or lack thereof. Still too early to call though.

User avatar
Ingolifs
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:35 am UTC
Location: Victoria university, New Zealand

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Ingolifs » Fri May 26, 2017 6:22 am UTC

I wonder how much the bodyslam helped him. If it were an Appalachian state, that sort of righteous violence would have helped quite a bit I expect. I feel like Montana's culture is a bit different from that, but I don't live in the US so I don't really know.
I belong to the tautologist's school of thought, that science is by definition, science.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri May 26, 2017 12:11 pm UTC

Ingolifs wrote:I wonder how much the bodyslam helped him. If it were an Appalachian state, that sort of righteous violence would have helped quite a bit I expect. I feel like Montana's culture is a bit different from that, but I don't live in the US so I don't really know.

Conventional wisdom is that violence is frowned upon, especially regarding to notself defense. So it hurts him. We'll know more after the counts are in.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Fri May 26, 2017 12:31 pm UTC

It looks like too many people voted early for it to have enough of an effect to swing the race.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri May 26, 2017 1:40 pm UTC

The results look very equivocal. 50%to 44. The average scandal is worth 10 points, and 2/3 of voters already voted when it happened. So assume 3 points better results for Democrats.... Means this is still a muddled result for people. Democrats are on track for a very average midterm resurgence. We'll know more June 20 for the Georgia election runoff. I was hoping for a Democrat 12 point bounce, or 15 in quists case due to the assault.
Edit: wait, isn't this +15 towards Democrats favor if it was previously +20 Trump in 2016? Maybe 538 was expecting a +15 Democratic swing, with quists getting +18? For a closer win/loss?

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri May 26, 2017 4:58 pm UTC

Blue Cross North Carolina is raising premiums by 22% this year, because Trump hasn't clarified his policy on Cost-Sharing Reductions.

Unfortunately, due to the current political system... people will likely blame "The Affordable Care Act" instead of Trump. This was an issue that was 100% within Trump's control, but it will be blamed on Obama. It seems difficult to explain the point that Trump is actually in charge of the country now, and that this increase is due to Trump's failure.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri May 26, 2017 5:32 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Blue Cross North Carolina is raising premiums by 22% this year, because Trump hasn't clarified his policy on Cost-Sharing Reductions.

Unfortunately, due to the current political system... people will likely blame "The Affordable Care Act" instead of Trump. This was an issue that was 100% within Trump's control, but it will be blamed on Obama. It seems difficult to explain the point that Trump is actually in charge of the country now, and that this increase is due to Trump's failure.

Didn't Trump say he's intentionally delaying, and pushing uncertainty in order to force the collapse? The plan was to force the Democrats to come to the GOP hat in hand, and not expect Democrats to blame Trump.

Chen
Posts: 5582
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Fri May 26, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Blue Cross North Carolina is raising premiums by 22% this year, because Trump hasn't clarified his policy on Cost-Sharing Reductions.

Unfortunately, due to the current political system... people will likely blame "The Affordable Care Act" instead of Trump. This was an issue that was 100% within Trump's control, but it will be blamed on Obama. It seems difficult to explain the point that Trump is actually in charge of the country now, and that this increase is due to Trump's failure.


I'm curious at the justification for even the almost 9% increase that was going to go through without this though. That seems high for a single year.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri May 26, 2017 6:23 pm UTC

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ump-215191
the paper soon expanded into coverage of Kushner’s home turf of commercial real estate, and people in that world saw the paper’s editorial resources devoted to pushing Kushner’s agenda or settling his scores.

“I think he is someone who saw all this shit with his father go down, and it turned him into a person who was determined to operate in much the same way but just be quieter about it,” said Brian Thomas Gallagher, who worked as a deputy editor at the paper during the Kushner era.

In addition to being a slumlord, Kushner apparently uses his newspaper to settle scores with people he made bad deals with or rivals. My favorite part is his lesson learned from his criminal dad, Don't get caught.
Man the Trump family makes real estate Moguls look really awful. Kushner is a real piece of work.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri May 26, 2017 6:44 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Blue Cross North Carolina is raising premiums by 22% this year, because Trump hasn't clarified his policy on Cost-Sharing Reductions.

Unfortunately, due to the current political system... people will likely blame "The Affordable Care Act" instead of Trump. This was an issue that was 100% within Trump's control, but it will be blamed on Obama. It seems difficult to explain the point that Trump is actually in charge of the country now, and that this increase is due to Trump's failure.


I'm curious at the justification for even the almost 9% increase that was going to go through without this though. That seems high for a single year.


Tons of healthy young people are preferring to pay the The Affordable Care Act Penalty rather than actually buy insurance. With a smaller-than-expected pool of healthy people, premiums need to go up to compensate.

Its why Obama was going to TV shows that cater towards younger audiences: hoping to encourage more people to buy up Health Care Insurance. In any case, its clear that the country as a whole overestimated the number of healthy people joining in.

sardia wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Blue Cross North Carolina is raising premiums by 22% this year, because Trump hasn't clarified his policy on Cost-Sharing Reductions.

Unfortunately, due to the current political system... people will likely blame "The Affordable Care Act" instead of Trump. This was an issue that was 100% within Trump's control, but it will be blamed on Obama. It seems difficult to explain the point that Trump is actually in charge of the country now, and that this increase is due to Trump's failure.

Didn't Trump say he's intentionally delaying, and pushing uncertainty in order to force the collapse? The plan was to force the Democrats to come to the GOP hat in hand, and not expect Democrats to blame Trump.


Or #3: Trump is confident that people will blame The Affordable Care Act instead of him. Which honestly seems like the most likely situation from my point of view.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

Opus_723
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:55 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Opus_723 » Sat May 27, 2017 2:56 am UTC

Oh look, Russia again.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/kushner-talked-to-russian-envoy-about-creating-secret-channel-with-kremlin.html?referer=https://news.google.com/

Honestly, I'm not convinced his campaign did anything illegal. All of this crap sounds exactly like what would someone would do if they got into the White House and everything they knew about government came from watching NCIS.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6896
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Sat May 27, 2017 4:14 am UTC

On CNN I heard that this secret back-channel was to be based in Russia, using their communications facilities. If that's not illegal, it's only because we never thought such a law would be necessary.
Opus_723 wrote:...everything they knew about government came from watching NCIS.
That should be an impeachable offense. :)

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Heartfelt thanks from addams and from me - you really made a difference.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Sat May 27, 2017 12:13 pm UTC

If any of this wheeling and dealing happened before the inauguration, it was defo illegal.

The whole team's attitude about all of this suggests they thought of it as a sort of game and that they'd never be caught.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

elasto
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Sun May 28, 2017 8:21 pm UTC

So, it has come to this...

French President Emmanuel Macron has said his clenched handshake with Donald Trump was "not innocent" and was a "moment of truth". The awkward encounter saw each grip the other's hand so firmly that their knuckles turned white .

Mr Macron told French media he had wanted to "show he would not make small concessions, not even symbolic ones, but also not overdo things".

The leaders met in Brussels on Thursday ahead of a Nato summit. As their vigorous handshake continued over several seconds, Mr Macron and Mr Trump also looked each other fixedly in the eyes until the US president attempted to disengage.

Mr Macron told the Journal du Dimanche newspaper his approach to the encounter had been about getting respect:

"Donald Trump, the Turkish president or the Russian president see things in terms of power relationships, which doesn't bother me," he said. "I don't believe in diplomacy through public criticism but in my bilateral dialogues I don't let anything pass. That is how you get respect."


link

Mutex
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Sun May 28, 2017 9:55 pm UTC

He should have challenged Trump to an arm wrestle. Or a thumb war.

elasto
Posts: 3778
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Mon May 29, 2017 12:22 am UTC

They should have gone the whole hog and seen who could piss the highest up a wall.

The sad thing is I think Trump is thin-skinned enough to bear a grudge over something like this.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon May 29, 2017 3:36 am UTC

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... ler-215202
he special prosecutor was convinced that Congress was on the verge of sabotaging his politically charged investigation—one that led straight into the White House and threatened to end with a president’s impeachment. And so he went to lawmakers on Capitol Hill with a plea: Do not grant immunity to witnesses in exchange for their testimony if you ever want anyone brought to justice.
The Trump administration is clamming up and demanding immunity before any witnesses give testimony, aka the Reagan Iran/contra strategy. If Congress (aka the GOP that desperately wishes this will go away) agrees, then a select few can be given immunity, take all the blame, and walk away scot free. The only thing stopping this is whatever morals remain in the GOP.

idonno
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby idonno » Mon May 29, 2017 3:13 pm UTC

...who had previously offered to testify before Congress voluntarily, without precondition, are seriously considering whether to withdraw the offer and insist on immunity.

“Why would you send clients up to Congress now and let them get caught up in a perjury trap over what could be a minor issue?”
This seems like your basic everyday legal ass covering to me. Also, according to the article, only Flynn and Deripaska are actually known to have requested immunity. Some of the others are considering it according to one of the lawyers involved. It seems a bit premature to accuse them of clamming up for just considering seeking protection from potential legal risks. At least wait until you know that they are in fact demanding immunity before claiming they are clamming up.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon May 29, 2017 3:48 pm UTC

idonno wrote:
...who had previously offered to testify before Congress voluntarily, without precondition, are seriously considering whether to withdraw the offer and insist on immunity.

“Why would you send clients up to Congress now and let them get caught up in a perjury trap over what could be a minor issue?”
This seems like your basic everyday legal ass covering to me. Also, according to the article, only Flynn and Deripaska are actually known to have requested immunity. Some of the others are considering it according to one of the lawyers involved. It seems a bit premature to accuse them of clamming up for just considering seeking protection from potential legal risks. At least wait until you know that they are in fact demanding immunity before claiming they are clamming up.

The part you're skipping over is if those two, or anyone else is granted immunity, then they can testify that they alone did everything wrong, and nobody else. This would poison the investigation and let the rest of Trump's administration get away.

idonno
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby idonno » Tue May 30, 2017 4:58 am UTC

sardia wrote:The part you're skipping over is if those two, or anyone else is granted immunity, then they can testify that they alone did everything wrong, and nobody else. This would poison the investigation and let the rest of Trump's administration get away.
I'm not skipping anything. Yes there are absolutely option available to poison the investigation but the possibility is not what you claimed. You cited an article and said "The Trump administration is clamming up and demanding immunity before any witnesses give testimony". Deripaska has business connections to Trump's former campaign manager but isn't by any stretch of the imagination a member of the administration and Flynn was fired, his demanding immunity is not some new development, and he would be crazy to testify without it. This article does not support your claim that the administration is engaging in some immunity scheme. They might do this but they might do a lot of things and they might even not have anything major to cover up. We should wait until the investigation turns over some hard evidence before just assuming guilt.

Also, I'd like to note that if I were a completely innocent member of the administration caught up in this investigation, I wouldn't testify without immunity. The negligible benefit simply isn't worth the risk of getting prosecuted on some bullshit argument like the meaning of the word "is".

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6816
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue May 30, 2017 1:23 pm UTC

While you bring up good points, it's also a good point that Republicans would very much like this to go away and giving immunity has been shown a good way to prevent an investigation from ever getting a conviction. Plus it's completely legal. No violation of Constitutional rights needed. It's something to keep an eye on when witnesses ask for immunity, aka don't ever give immunity in political cases.

Https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bl ... tic-party/
Hmm, reversion to the mean or bad Democratic candidates? And by bad, I mean not the second coming of Jesus.
Article also points out that fear doesn't motivate blacks, and that the Latino vote is only worth half as much as a black vote. Democrats have to work twice as hard just to get a replacement vote for a black voter. And that's if the Latino voter even lives in a swing state. This is very disappointing news for 2020. 2018 still looks good, mostly cuz of educated whites backing Democrats.

User avatar
ElWanderer
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:05 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ElWanderer » Wed May 31, 2017 11:04 pm UTC

I'm surprised this thread doesn't have more covfefe, negative or otherwise.
Now I am become Geoff, the destroyer of worlds

Mutex
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Wed May 31, 2017 11:57 pm UTC

Well I mean, it's hardly significant in the grand scheme of things. It's not a physical assault on another nation's leader, or an implication he'll stand by and watch eastern Europe get invaded or something.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 4060
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:37 am UTC

It may be!
“The president and a small group of people know exactly what he meant,” Spicer shot back, tantalizingly.


Order 66. I bet it is an Order 66.

User avatar
rivulatus
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:14 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby rivulatus » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:43 am UTC

What really gets me about this whole scenario isn't that a mistake was made (covfefe most likely was meant to be coverage) rather then just fix it and move on they have to double down on the idiocy, and pretend it was all deliberate.
This isn't the first time that the trump administration has reacted in such a way, and I am kinda worried about what will happen when they accidentally do something that has effects (e.g. winding up north Korea) and then refuse to correct the mistake.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6896
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:52 am UTC

rivulatus wrote:...they have to double down on the idiocy, and pretend it was all deliberate.
Oh, come on. It's a nothing. They are having some fun with it. I'd probably do the same thing. Ch*rp, even the Beatles did it.

Either that, or it really is a secret message to the Russians, but if so, it's of limited content that could have been delivered any number of ways that we'd never know about.

There's lots of Bad Things going on in the Trump administration. This isn't one of them. Don't get distracted.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Heartfelt thanks from addams and from me - you really made a difference.

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:39 am UTC

I'm enjoying the covfefe kerfuffle as much as everyone else; but I'm worried that the more attention we pay to such trivia, the less attention is left over for things like this:

China Detains Activist Investigating Factory Making Ivanka Trump Shoes

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 8573
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:45 pm UTC

Yeah, any attention paid to the bullshit ridiculous irrelevant funny stuff is less attention paid to actually scary shit they're planning/hoping to do.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
HES
Posts: 4896
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 7:13 pm UTC
Location: England

Re: Trump presidency

Postby HES » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:33 pm UTC

Whelp, looks like the president still thinks climate change is a hoax.
He/Him/His Image

User avatar
ElWanderer
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:05 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ElWanderer » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:42 pm UTC

On a more serious note, has he pulled you out of the Paris Climate Treaty yet? He has been dragging that one out...
Now I am become Geoff, the destroyer of worlds

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6598
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:46 pm UTC

He will, but he's turning it into a media event to distract the public.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:46 pm UTC

ElWanderer wrote:On a more serious note, has he pulled you out of the Paris Climate Treaty yet? He has been dragging that one out...


Trump plans to make a big announcement at 3:00pm EST. He's one for theatrics. My bet is that's when he decides to stay (or go).

Crap: Ninja'd by Thesh. Basically what Thesh said.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1406
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:46 pm UTC

And he has officially said he's pulling out.

That said, I read somewhere that it is pretty much impossible to pull out for something like 3 years?

Holly Doremus, Co-Director of the Center for Law, Energy and the Environment at the Berkeley School of Law wrote:It’s not as easy to formally withdraw from the Paris Agreement as some of the coverage makes it sound. Article 28 of the Paris Agreement allows any party to notice its withdrawal three years from the date on which the Agreement entered into force for that party [November 4, 2016]. That means the earliest date on which the U.S. can formally notice its withdrawal would be November 4, 2019. Withdrawal becomes effective no sooner than one year later. So the US can’t withdraw from Paris alone until November 2020.


We'll see how this goes
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:56 pm UTC

I had to do some research.

The Paris accords are a self-regulating set of documents that seem to have no actual teeth to them. There's nothing that allows the UN to force its will upon the US (or anybody else for that matter), all of the targets seem to be set by the country in question. So really, all this talk Trump has said about sovereignty is just bullshit he's feeding to his base. And based on the responses I've seen so far, it seems like people are gobbling it up.

Trump could have simply just... stayed in the Paris Accords and just failed to keep up with the promises. Or, Trump could have unilaterally revised the targets down. The Paris Accords are not a treaty (under US law) and therefore its an agreement that can be made by the President alone.

If any of this is wrong, let me know. But that's my understanding of the issue. If that's so, then the reason Trump is pulling out is 100% political posturing to feed to his base.

EDIT: A corollary means that everybody is overreacting to this. We all knew that Trump didn't believe in Climate Change months ago when he appointed a climate-change denier to the EPA. THAT has substantiative damage to the cause of climate change. For the most part, this Paris Accord was a non-binding agreement, without much teeth, without real Treaty Powers or anything. Its kind of a dick move for Trump to rip it up, but I don't think there would have been major consequences if Trump made the opposite decision today.

Damage to our allies and world standing already happened last week, when Trump got on the world stage to blame Germany for its cars and shook the very foundation of NATO. Trump is already becoming a laughing stock and the world is going to turn away from him. This climate accord is just a continuation of that.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:32 am UTC

Along with that corollary, it'll hopefully fire up businesses, states, cities etc to continue and ramp-up what action they can.

People in other countries know he was elected with a minority of support because of our quirky system, right?
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests