Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:05 pm UTC

oh, Sableagle;
It is common knowledge that the Russians messed with your elections, too.
Therefore, your people like my people are polarized and scapegoating.

We have entered a new age of Warfare.
It seems we are getting our butts kicked.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:15 pm UTC

Read this Trump quote:
Spoiler:
Before we begin, I would like to say that we have a large team of very talented people in China. We have had a negotiation going on for about two days. It’s going extremely well—who knows what that means because it only matters if we get it done, but we are very much working very closely with China and President Xi who I respect a lot, very good relationship that we have. And we are a lot closer than we ever were in this country with having a real trade deal.

Now read this quote:
Spoiler:
When can we expect to see the Trans-Pacific Partnership—the TPP, if indeed it ever happens—be signed into law? We will see. There is a negotiation—a working agreement between the parties that we expect to get signed. China is in the process of developing many other free, open and transparent trade agreements, they will have to deal with these before we come to signing any deal, like the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, which was finalized last week.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is actually an economic partnership between all stakeholders, all businesses. The purpose of this trade agreement is to create the best trade relationship for China. They have a great economic relationship. I think the one of the things they have done—I know you guys have been saying for about eight months that they had nothing to do with it, because it is already signed. And they are on the verge of coming up with another trade agreement. At this moment you know the Obama administration has decided if that will ever happen—there is concern that China—if they do become a WTO member they will be given a trade deal that is unfair to our economy, it will not be a fair deal for the American people, it will not be a safe deal. And the President of China, we do think they will be given a deal that makes things worse but we do look forward to coming to the negotiating table. That is what I would like to see.

Now you must read this for context:


Doesn't it just get your goat?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Plasma_Wolf » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:17 pm UTC

John Oliver has already shown that an iPhone's autocomplete would be just as coherent as Trump himself. I'm not surprised that he's surpassed by everything that's got more thought put into than an autocomplete algorithm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHzv-UDXeC4

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cephalopod9 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:46 am UTC

Last night's, the 27th of February, episode of Late Night with Seth Myers got interrupted by Trump's weird conference from Vietnam, and I thought it was a bit, because Christina Hendricks and Seth had just talked about how her appearance on a morning talk show got interrupted by breaking coverage of the Cohen testimony.
I fast forwarded through my dvr-pause-buffer trying to skip it, and had to come to terms with it being a real thing, currently happening, and on the one hand, it's terrifying, but on the other I know nothing is going to be communicated that means anything.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:55 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Read this Trump quote:
Spoiler:
Before we begin, I would like to say that we have a large team of very talented people in China. We have had a negotiation going on for about two days. It’s going extremely well—who knows what that means because it only matters if we get it done, but we are very much working very closely with China and President Xi who I respect a lot, very good relationship that we have. And we are a lot closer than we ever were in this country with having a real trade deal.

Now read this quote:
Spoiler:
When can we expect to see the Trans-Pacific Partnership—the TPP, if indeed it ever happens—be signed into law? We will see. There is a negotiation—a working agreement between the parties that we expect to get signed. China is in the process of developing many other free, open and transparent trade agreements, they will have to deal with these before we come to signing any deal, like the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, which was finalized last week.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is actually an economic partnership between all stakeholders, all businesses. The purpose of this trade agreement is to create the best trade relationship for China. They have a great economic relationship. I think the one of the things they have done—I know you guys have been saying for about eight months that they had nothing to do with it, because it is already signed. And they are on the verge of coming up with another trade agreement. At this moment you know the Obama administration has decided if that will ever happen—there is concern that China—if they do become a WTO member they will be given a trade deal that is unfair to our economy, it will not be a fair deal for the American people, it will not be a safe deal. And the President of China, we do think they will be given a deal that makes things worse but we do look forward to coming to the negotiating table. That is what I would like to see.

Now you must read this for context:


Doesn't it just get your goat?


I mean, greatest of all time? I dunno.

It does worry me that this could be the approach of singularity. Replacing our leaders and we wouldn't even know it? Machines already control facebook and we've seen how that could be influential. Maybe they know we'd catch on, but if they sneak bots into social media and politics would we even know? Scary.

cephalopod9 wrote:Last night's, the 27th of February, episode of Late Night with Seth Myers got interrupted by Trump's weird conference from Vietnam, and I thought it was a bit, because Christina Hendricks and Seth had just talked about how her appearance on a morning talk show got interrupted by breaking coverage of the Cohen testimony.
I fast forwarded through my dvr-pause-buffer trying to skip it, and had to come to terms with it being a real thing, currently happening, and on the one hand, it's terrifying, but on the other I know nothing is going to be communicated that means anything.


I want to feel alarmed, but I've just got a jaded feeling for some reason. Hmm.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:41 am UTC

gd1 wrote:
cephalopod9 wrote:Last night's, the 27th of February, episode of Late Night with Seth Myers got interrupted by Trump's weird conference from Vietnam, and I thought it was a bit, because Christina Hendricks and Seth had just talked about how her appearance on a morning talk show got interrupted by breaking coverage of the Cohen testimony.
I fast forwarded through my dvr-pause-buffer trying to skip it, and had to come to terms with it being a real thing, currently happening, and on the one hand, it's terrifying, but on the other I know nothing is going to be communicated that means anything.


I want to feel alarmed, but I've just got a jaded feeling for some reason. Hmm.
Jaded?
I have a sinking feeling with intermittent hope.

That Orange Creep is obviously a criminal.
We, just, can't accept a Mob Boss. Can we?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:40 pm UTC

addams wrote:
gd1 wrote:
cephalopod9 wrote:Last night's, the 27th of February, episode of Late Night with Seth Myers got interrupted by Trump's weird conference from Vietnam, and I thought it was a bit, because Christina Hendricks and Seth had just talked about how her appearance on a morning talk show got interrupted by breaking coverage of the Cohen testimony.
I fast forwarded through my dvr-pause-buffer trying to skip it, and had to come to terms with it being a real thing, currently happening, and on the one hand, it's terrifying, but on the other I know nothing is going to be communicated that means anything.


I want to feel alarmed, but I've just got a jaded feeling for some reason. Hmm.
Jaded?
I have a sinking feeling with intermittent hope.

That Orange Creep is obviously a criminal.
We, just, can't accept a Mob Boss. Can we?


25%+ of the country accepts him (maybe, not sure) and lives in a bubble. A bubble made by Fox News and similar people over 20 years-ish, exploited by Trump. All we can try to do is vote him out. I often wonder if they will stage an uprising if Trump is voted out or if they are jaded.

Honestly, I wanted to vote for Trump before Bernie showed up (and before I knew of the terrible things he's done in the past). If Bernie hadn't shown up I might have been in for a penny in for a pound and disregarded all of the terrible things Trump has done in the past. So I might understand some of what Trump supporters are going through. And it's interesting that we label them as Trump supporters. Probably makes them feel even more like they are being persecuted (see paragraph below).

The issue doesn't seem to be just that we get people like Trump, but that a quarter of the country believes the left is out to get them and live in fear and denial. It doesn't help that they lose their jobs and businesses when they do something wrong either (wedding cakes, pool patrol, etc.). Fox News and similar have convinced them that they are constantly under attack and must fight or lose everything. So, when they lose an election, you hear the radio hosts like Mark Levin change their intro to "Somewhere under the brick and mortar of a nondescript building, deep in a hidden bunker, we've once again made contact with Mark Levin". It's a persecution complex, but it's affecting a quarter of the population. I'm not sure what can be done, because the parents are just going to pass it on to their children and if you try to teach them otherwise in schools they'll just homeschool them.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:11 pm UTC

well, until 30 years ago we had a system for dealing with this....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine


also, maybe holding companies accountable for outright lies broadcast as 'news' should be punishable as defamation or libel or somesuch.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:05 pm UTC

ahh...The Fairness Doctrine.
Yes. It would be nice to have it back.

Bring back the Equal Time Rule, too!

gd1; We Did have an uprising after Trump was installed.

In fact there were several 'UpRisings'.
They were Peaceful and NonViolent.

The Trump Bunch might be a much smaller number,
Yet the underlying worry is the ruthless and mindless violence the Trump Bunch tend toward?

If the Woman's March had been violent, it would have been a tragedy.
Are we so easy to forget because we were Peaceful? That's Not Fair!

The domestic terrorists inspired by Trump T.V. should be a concern for all of us.
I guess, we can thank our Lucky Stars that we have lost less than a hundred lives.

(gack..) He is such a creep!
He has been openly creepy for forty years.
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Some of us see The Gutter.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:19 pm UTC

If something happened to Fox News it would probably just reinforce the persecution complex.

I've compared Trump and Fox News with this card a few times:

Image

It doesn't matter if you hit them with removal, once they come down you're already out a card in hand. Though it might be even worse than that (card link)...

Basically, the damage is already done at this point and we're going to have to think carefully about how to go about fixing it.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Diemo » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:58 pm UTC

It doesn't matter what you do, the people on the right are going to whine about it. So you might as well make it illegal to deliberately mislead people and broadcast propaganda. Of course, the billionnaire class will still have a huge amount of power and influence, but allowing them to broadcast lies and deceit just helps them to keep and cement their own power, to the detriment of the world.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:51 pm UTC

What really perplexes me is how many people who were "hippies" back when hippies were a thing seem to be Trump supporters today, when I would expect that crowd to be generally left-leaning. My parents both identified as hippies and were to my knowledge lifelong Democrat or else independent voters though my childhood, and yet somehow both supported Trump, though my dad claims he does so begrudgingly and my mom has now turned against him. (Both have also fallen for every crazy conspiracy theory on the internet since getting internet access, so maybe that's a common factor). Last weekend I saw an old long-hair selling CBD oil and stuff out of the back of his hand-decorated VW van down at the beach... and then noticed that among his signs about the miraculous health benefits of the crap he was selling, were rambling pro-Trump statements as well, which made me do a double-take.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby idonno » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:40 pm UTC

eran_rathan wrote:also, maybe holding companies accountable for outright lies broadcast as 'news' should be punishable as defamation or libel or somesuch.

When the current President, the guy responsible for appointing a lot of judges, is calling every piece of news he doesn't like "fake news" it seems unwise to respond by granting the government the power to penalize them.

The fairness doctrine of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, was a policy that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was—in the FCC's view—honest, equitable, and balanced.
Unless I'm mistaken, the FCC commissioners are appointed by the guy who made this bold claim "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly". I don't like the idea of his cronies determining what is honest, equitable, and balanced.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:13 pm UTC

I think the only way to fix this is to concentrate on making sure it doesn't infect the next generation. It's too late for the current folks. Education on how to fact-check and properly vet sources of information, from a young age, is crucial. If we don't...things will just continue to get worse.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby idonno » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:29 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:What really perplexes me is how many people who were "hippies" back when hippies were a thing seem to be Trump supporters today, when I would expect that crowd to be generally left-leaning.

It just occurred to me that Russia used hippies to manipulate US politics in the past. Maybe their generation is just the unwitting puppets of Moscow. I think I'd rather them switch back to a peace movement though.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:01 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:I think the only way to fix this is to concentrate on making sure it doesn't infect the next generation. It's too late for the current folks. Education on how to fact-check and properly vet sources of information, from a young age, is crucial. If we don't...things will just continue to get worse.


Is this a catch 22?:
If you try to educate them they'll homeschool them. If you leave them be, it will get worse anyway.

===

I don't think people fully appreciate the intensity to which these guys will recoil from anything lgbt. If you try to put it in schools they will treat it as a grave crime on par with cannibalism. There might be articles of this happening, not sure. In a similar way, they believe that Democrats are trying to force them into a lifestyle that goes against their religion and values. As such, they view the Democrats as being wrong about everything because they don't accept their views on these things. That's the feeling I get anyway.

===

Not just hippies by the way. People who like anime are have anime avatars on YouTube. People who like computer games (recent Doom trailer with "don't refer to them as demons... mortally challenged"), before Doom I had already encountered people in CS Source saying racist stuff over voice chat.

I think they thought that Trump would not be motivated by money like other politicians because he already has money. Which is what I initially thought. Might have been what hippies and some other people thought.

For fun:
If you want to see alternate places where they reside on YouTube, go to videos about the movie Demolition Man (pretty much all of them) or the first starship troopers (some of them).
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:12 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:Is this a catch 22?:
If you try to educate them they'll homeschool them. If you leave them be, it will get worse anyway.


I can accept that result, because most parents aren't willing to homeschool their kids, they have jobs to go to, etc. The percentage of folks that homeschool their kids is pretty low, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:05 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:
gd1 wrote:Is this a catch 22?:
If you try to educate them they'll homeschool them. If you leave them be, it will get worse anyway.


I can accept that result, because most parents aren't willing to homeschool their kids, they have jobs to go to, etc. The percentage of folks that homeschool their kids is pretty low, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.


I'm not sure if that would be the only pushback. Maybe they are jaded though.

Another thing I've noticed is that some people on comment sections say the party left them behind (though online I could say I've medaled in the Olympics, gotten a Nobel prize, and graduated from Harvard... all lies). Some reasons were being asked to accept stances on abortion, legalization, etc. and choosing that way or the highway. I don't know if there's any truth to it, but it's also a possibility.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:30 am UTC

Democrats: Anti-Life, Anti-Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, Anti-Hamberder

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:08 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Democrats: Anti-Life, Anti-Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, Anti-Hamberder

There's nothing I hate more than being served fast food at a social/corporate setting. Fast food is meant to be eaten right away. Not after the speeches and clapping is done. Lukewarm burgers with cheese reforming into a solid? Stale fries? Wilted salads? Mushy bread. Ugh.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:41 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:I think the only way to fix this is to concentrate on making sure it doesn't infect the next generation. It's too late for the current folks. Education on how to fact-check and properly vet sources of information, from a young age, is crucial. If we don't...things will just continue to get worse.
You make sense.

ummm...Is it Finland that is teaching this, Now?

(Sniff Sniff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72gy-LZ4UN0
What he said.

The poor man was tired.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ijuin » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:29 pm UTC

40-watt range? Anybody who thinks that forty watts is enough to kill a human without a direct brain strike does not understand plasma weapons.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:06 pm UTC

My microwave's only 20 times more powerful than that, and it has to have a safety catch built into the door so I can't operate it with the door open.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:52 pm UTC

Let's take a moment to remember some of the fear fomented against Obama...
History Won’t Forget How Obama Was Treated (YouTube clip, 6m55s)

I'm not sure if it was always that intense or to what extent these are representative of the content usually shown by such networks around the Obama presidency timeframe. Just posting it for informative value.

The comment section has some allegations about imprisoning journalists, 150b$ to Iran, 20T$ debt, etc. standard stuff.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:41 pm UTC

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/22/trump-s ... tions.html

President Donald Trump said Friday that he would scrap action his administration took only a day earlier to crack down on companies accused of helping North Korea evade sanctions.

“It was announced today by the U.S. Treasury that additional large scale Sanctions would be added to those already existing Sanctions on North Korea,” the president tweeted on Friday, though the Treasury announcement he appeared to reference took place Thursday and did not involve “large scale” sanctions. “I have today ordered the withdrawal of those additional Sanctions!”

In explaining the president’s sudden announcement, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, “President Trump likes Chairman Kim and he doesn’t think these sanctions will be necessary.” Trump’s tweet and the press secretary’s clarification of it sent waves of confusion throughout Washington, from the Pentagon to the White House itself.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:32 pm UTC

Breaking: Mueller report released to Attorney General Barr

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... rr-n974006

I wonder how much of it we will end up seeing?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:15 am UTC

freezeblade wrote:Breaking: Mueller report released to Attorney General Barr

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justic ... rr-n974006

I wonder how much of it we will end up seeing?


I wonder how many more days of a 24/7 news cycle we'll end up seeing panels of pundits pondering exactly that, because they have nothing else to report on this topic.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:34 am UTC

Don't worry, the Trump administration has been planning a war in Venezuela for a while now.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:39 am UTC

ummm....
I have "Lock Them Up!" daydreams.

Argh!
He has admitted criminal behavior during national interviews!
The Report will be nice. What will stop the Madness?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:48 pm UTC

Initial indications are that the Mueller report has cleared the President specifically, and the Trump campaign in general, of coordinating with the Russians. The report punts on the question of whether Trump obstructed justice, saying essentially that it looks like he might have, but there isn't enough evidence to prove anything.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:49 pm UTC

Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Paranoid__Android » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:19 pm UTC

This is good news on the collusion part. He's still a colossal **** but at least he wasn't colluding with a hostile nation to win an election.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:35 pm UTC

Paranoid__Android wrote:This is good news on the collusion part. He's still a colossal **** but at least he wasn't colluding with a hostile nation to win an election.


I don't believe it for a second for three reasons:
1. Putin is KGB, there's no way he'd be sloppy enough for us to find a direct tie. Note how Cohen said that Trump never directly asks for illegal things.
2. Trump willingly met with Putin behind closed doors and then willingly chose to confiscate the notes of the translator.
3. Our intelligence agencies told us that the one time we do have some idea of what happened in a Trump/Russia meeting in the white house with two Russian officials Trump gave extremely sensitive classified information to the Russians.

It's hard enough proving that a regular political candidate has done something wrong unless they screw up. These are government backed spy agencies with long traditions of sneaking things under the radar.

On a side note, I think I'll have to stay off the Yahoo comment sections for a bit. I have a pretty good idea what will be spammed at the moment.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:52 pm UTC

I don't know, I've never really been certain of the "Trump colluded with Russia" narrative. He doesn't strike me as smart enough, and Russia doesn't strike me as dumb enough.

We know Russia wanted him to win. Russia knows that any direct ties between him and Russia would create a problem for him. It makes sense that Russia wouldn't want to actively collude, but merely help in every way imaginable short of creating that clear connection -- it also makes sense that Russia, realizing he's an idiot, wouldn't trust him to hide his tracks well enough to work with him in any significant capacity.

He's already guilty of so many other crimes (up to and including rape) that that the Mueller report shouldn't really change the way people talk about him. But -- knowing Trump, and Fox -- all we're going to hear about for the next month or so is how this exonerates him of any and all crimes he's ever done (including, somehow, the rape).

At the very least, now that Mueller has demonstrated that he's an actual investigator, maybe some people (here and elsewhere) will stop whining about him just being part of a "political hack-job". Or maybe they'll just whine about how this was a "failed political hack-job" that proves Trump is some sort of saint. Like the FBI couldn't have just dug some shit up if they really wanted to.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Paranoid__Android » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:02 am UTC

+1 hippo.

Gd1. Just because he could have done something didn't mean he actually did.
Regarding the meetings with putin, given his negotiating style, there could be a whole host of non-nefarious reasons for sealing the transcripts. We also don't have transcripts of the Kim meetings.
With regards to the classified Intel leaks. The fact that it became public and the nature of the Intel (terrorism/isis) makes me put it down to stupidity and sheer incompetence on behalf of trump. Which fits his character.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:03 am UTC

Of course he's not smart enough to do this on his own. That's why he kept getting instructions in face to face backdoor meetings with Putin. Trump's ridiculously well placed. He's famous, wealthy, a scumbag with an excellent talent for conning and PR, and nothing to lose in the US since no one wants to do business with him anymore, but susceptible to a bribe of oligarch status which is like corruption Christmas for him.

Russia leaked the information to third parties and knew that the Trump base wanted to believe him anyway. Hiding in plausible deniability.

This ds9 clip came to mind:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StF9jrhw-pU

Edit: Android, it doesn't mean he didn't either. It means he has plausible deniability. It's possible to find a person innocent of murder due to lack of evidence. Putin knew how to manipulate our legal constraints and Trump's apparent ineptness makes it even more convincing.
Last edited by gd1 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:16 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:05 am UTC

This is the same problem as campaign contributions; it's not bribery, but it's bribery. It's the Trump Organization that I'm really interested in. Republicans are going to be able to successfully spin this in their favor, but now the House and New York are going to be in full force.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:32 am UTC

Also, remember, Al Capone was not arrested for murder.

So our legal system can be and has been gamed to ludicrous extents before.

About Trump's inability to keep a lie... remember again what Cohen said: Trump does not directly ask you to lie.

I think you don't give Trump enough credit. He may not be good at much, but legalized crime is a specialty for him.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:46 am UTC

"while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
What it does is make me sick to my stomach.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby maybeagnostic » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:25 am UTC

gd1 wrote:Of course he's not smart enough to do this on his own. That's why he kept getting instructions in face to face backdoor meetings with Putin.
I think that's fundamentally misunderstanding what Russia gets out of this whole situation. Their interests are to discredit the US on the international stage, weaken the ties between the EU and USA, spread the idea of a moral equivalence between global powers (Russia does some bad stuff but so does the US therefore you can't criticize Russia about anything) and so on. None of this stuff requires Trump to actively collude with Putin, he just does it by nature of who he is.

Its the same reason they pushed for Brexit. I honestly don't even think they expected Brexit and Trump to happen, its just a way to sow division and internal strife.
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