Trump presidency

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sardia
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:36 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Your memory doesn't serve; it was a BlackBerry and he wasn't allowed an iPhone for security reasons.


Ah, fair. Yeah, you wouldn't want any sensitive comms going over a random iphone. But a twitter post definitely isn't private. The question's really if he uses it for anything but twitter. So, the twitter post is just meaningless.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... Xz&ampcf=1
I just said that they are listening in on Trump to gain an advantage on a trade war.
Intelligence reports indicate that Chinese spies are listening in on President Donald Trump's phone calls on his iPhone, The New York Times reported Wednesday.
Officials told the Times that Beijing's goal is to use the information they've gathered to help prevent a full-blown trade war between the U.S. and China.
The Times reported that Trump has three iPhones: two that have had their capabilities limited by the National Security Agency, and one that has not been altered at all.


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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:45 pm UTC

Some details are being shed on the man who sent the explosive packages:

A 56-year-old man has been arrested in Florida in connection with a mail-bombing campaign aimed at critics of President Trump.

US officials named the man as Cesar Sayoc, saying that more arrests could follow.
(...)
Media reports say Mr Sayoc was arrested at an auto parts shop in the city of Plantation, Florida.

US officials say he is the principle suspect, and that DNA evidence was used to track him down.

He reportedly has ties to New York and a criminal history.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45996655

Twitter today has been full of Trump supporters claiming the packages are clearly a false flag by the Democrats. Asking why the postage stamps on the packages in photos weren't marked (I'm guessing the sorting office called the FBI as soon as they found the package, and didn't actually post it). But also pointing out the fallout of this would obviously be more likely to hurt GOP chances in the midterms. An argument that would be valid if the guy who did this was rational. But no, obviously it's all a conspiracy as opposed to the simpler explanation: The guy is a loon.

I mean, there's plenty of non-false-flag terror attacks they can look at to see that yes, this does happen. ISIS attacks in Europe probably don't make people more sympathetic to ISIS's cause, they still do them.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:24 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:He does this in a Twitter post that, like all the rest of his tweets, was literally posted from his unsecured iPhone.

Question - how do people know this is posted from an iPhone? Like, I don't doubt that, but I don't know twitter enough.

Based on one of the replies to that tweet, it seems that if you view it from the app yourself, it says right at the bottom that it was posted using Twitter for iPhone.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:29 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Zohar wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:He does this in a Twitter post that, like all the rest of his tweets, was literally posted from his unsecured iPhone.

Question - how do people know this is posted from an iPhone? Like, I don't doubt that, but I don't know twitter enough.

Based on one of the replies to that tweet, it seems that if you view it from the app yourself, it says right at the bottom that it was posted using Twitter for iPhone.
Yep. Here's a screenshot:
Spoiler:
trumptweet.jpg

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:33 pm UTC

Oh, that tweet's worse. It indicates a lack of understanding over what the issue even is. Gov / not government isn't the same as secured/unsecured.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:40 pm UTC

Newest updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/us/c ... ested.html

Looking at pictures of his alleged van, it's clear he's a fervent Trump supporter, who seems to take the rhetoric very seriously.

Can we finally admit that we have a problem with right-wing domestic terrorism in this country? Deflecting with "but the Anti-Fa is the real problem" will be met with rolled eyes.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:49 pm UTC

That guy's batshit crazy.

There's more like that, though. I've seen at least two different ones where I live. Same style of endless stickers of a conspiratorial bent. Anyone with more than three bumper stickers on their vehicle for non-work purposes is probably flirting with insanity. If it's more than you can reasonably count, back away cautiously.

Of course he's from Florida, though. I think the crazies have conventions down there or something.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Plasma_Wolf » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:06 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Newest updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/us/c ... ested.html

Looking at pictures of his alleged van, it's clear he's a fervent Trump supporter, who seems to take the rhetoric very seriously.

Can we finally admit that we have a problem with right-wing domestic terrorism in this country? Deflecting with "but the Anti-Fa is the real problem" will be met with rolled eyes.


I found a twitter thread on this subject: https://twitter.com/DavidNeiwert/status ... 5073512448

And in light of the twitter thread, I am not at all surprised that someone starts making bombs and send them over the post. On the contrary, it's amazing that it's not far worse than this.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:49 pm UTC

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
freezeblade wrote:Newest updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/us/c ... ested.html

Looking at pictures of his alleged van, it's clear he's a fervent Trump supporter, who seems to take the rhetoric very seriously.

Can we finally admit that we have a problem with right-wing domestic terrorism in this country? Deflecting with "but the Anti-Fa is the real problem" will be met with rolled eyes.


I found a twitter thread on this subject: https://twitter.com/DavidNeiwert/status ... 5073512448

And in light of the twitter thread, I am not at all surprised that someone starts making bombs and send them over the post. On the contrary, it's amazing that it's not far worse than this.
There's really only one side of this debate that consistently stockpiles guns, obsesses over civil wars, and regularly commits acts of domestic terrorism. There's really only one side of this debate stuffed with people that regularly talk about literally murdering members of the other side. And surprise! It's the side that currently controls all three branches of government, and has all the power.

Is there some sort of fancy word for "Gaining power by stoking our fear, paranoia, and disgust toward the powerless"? A word that encapsulates the act of brutally stabbing someone to death while screaming "YOU'RE ATTACKING ME" -- as your unarmed victim holds their hands up and pleads for you to stop?

I bet there is. It's probably German, or something.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:49 pm UTC

I vote we coin the term "Trumpist" as the word to describe people who engage in those sort of acts.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:05 pm UTC

THippo wrote:I bet there is. It's probably German, or something.


Angstmachemacht, perhaps?

My German's terrible, but no doubt there's indeed a lovely mash-up for that concept. It's a very expressive language if you don't mind lengthy words.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:34 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:I vote we coin the term "Trumpist" as the word to describe people who engage in those sort of acts.

Too vague, that covers far too broad a range of evil and demented behaviour.

It's projection at its core, just... Worse. Phony victimhood? Still only covers part of it really.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:That guy's batshit crazy.


No, he's a radicalized white nationalist terrorist.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:40 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:That guy's batshit crazy.


No, he's a radicalized white nationalist terrorist.


History/criminal record like that, I think crazy is perhaps more accurate. Not that we can't assign other pejoratives to him in truth, but this is not a guy with a sound plan. The lack of mental health is significant.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:48 pm UTC

Selbstverteidigungmord

"Self defense murder"

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:50 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:That guy's batshit crazy.


No, he's a radicalized white nationalist terrorist.


History/criminal record like that, I think crazy is perhaps more accurate. Not that we can't assign other pejoratives to him in truth, but this is not a guy with a sound plan. The lack of mental health is significant.


People with mental health issues are not normally involved in bomb plots. Lacking evidence to the contrary, we should assume he is just a criminal.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:56 pm UTC

Bomb plots do indeed sometimes attract folks who are a bit off. The sort of people who see conspiracies everywhere. If you think this guy looks mentally sound, perhaps you ought to take another look at that van?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:00 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:People with mental health issues are not normally involved in bomb plots. Lacking evidence to the contrary, we should assume he is just a criminal.
I think the nature and execution of the crime is, in of itself, evidence of mental illness.

I agree that "writing him off" as mentally ill is a mistake; that being said, I also think that "radical white nationalist" and "mentally ill" aren't mutually exclusive attributes. It's important to point out that this appears to be politically motivated terrorism targeting the left; it's also probably important to note that the perpetrator is very likely suffering from mental illness.

I'm not sure which one of those things is more important (I'm not sure we should act as if either is 'more' important, really).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:02 pm UTC

I drove by a guy with a POS car with a giant antenna on top, and the back pressed down as if it was weighed down with half a ton of equipment, and the guy driving it was a fat middle aged guy talking into a ham radio or such. I can only assume he was some sort of conspiracy nutjob who thought that government was out to get him.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:06 pm UTC

Ham enthusiasts are somewhat different than conspiracy theorists. The former spend lots of money on a niche hobby, just like...most niche hobbyists do. The latter are quite literally seeing enemies everywhere. The two activities are not very similar.

Edit: Also, the sort of person who thinks that 1. The government is out to get him, and 2. The best thing to do about that is to put bumper stickers advertising that all over your vehicle, making it highly distinguishable, is likely a few cards short of a full deck. If your ham guy decided to eschew a paint job in favor of bumper stickers, I'd consider him significantly more unstable than I would from merely having some kind of toy radio getup.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby KittenKaboodle » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:55 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:If the camera and microphone haven't been disabled, if someone gains control of the phone they could spy on him. And possibly also know his location at all times. An insecure device shouldn't be in the White House.


Shhh, don't tell Putin.
But seriously, the difference between Trump and Clinton is that Trump is President and Clinton was just Secretary of State.
Remember a while back when Trump told a Russian diplomat something classified to impress him? If I recall correctly, some W.H. spokesperson explained that since he is President he can de-classify anything he wants any time he wants. If he wants his BFF Putin to know what he is doing, well, that's his business. If he as de-classified everything he discloses then it's not treason (and if were, he could have preemptively pardoned himself, though that would be redundant 'cause it's not like congress is going to do anything about it)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:49 am UTC

KittenKaboodle wrote:If I recall correctly, some W.H. spokesperson explained that since he is President he can de-classify anything he wants any time he wants. If he wants his BFF Putin to know what he is doing, well, that's his business. If he as de-classified everything he discloses then it's not treason (and if were, he could have preemptively pardoned himself, though that would be redundant 'cause it's not like congress is going to do anything about it)
God, I still remember that. I remember wanting to scream when I heard talking heads from Fox News justifying this by talking about how -- well, he's the President! So technically, he can just declassify information by sharing it with whomever he wants!

Like yes. That is literally, 100% true. Good job, Fox News. If the United States President decides to share the nuclear launch codes alongside the names, faces, and identities of every US agent abroad, he can genuinely do that.

Maybe you ought to put some effort into trying to comprehend the difference between a "can" and a "should", though.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:50 am UTC

But when the President does it...


Still, the most infuriating thing, at least in terms of how infuriated I was, was when he claimed that if there was a shooter he would personally beat up the guy. Yeah no, just fuck off right there.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:51 pm UTC

Wall Street Journal wrote:“We don’t have tariffs anywhere,” President Trump said in a recent interview with The Wall Street Journal. In fact, his administration this year has placed levies on more than $300 billion in imports.

Mr. Trump said he views tariffs as a trade negotiating tactic. “We don’t even have tariffs,” he said in the interview. “I’m using tariffs to negotiate. I mean, other than some tariffs on steel—which is actually small, what do we have? ... Where do we have tariffs? We don’t have tariffs anywhere.”


Donald Trump wrote:Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows - news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!


Ladies and gentlemen, once again: the President of the United States of America.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:56 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:People with mental health issues are not normally involved in bomb plots. Lacking evidence to the contrary, we should assume he is just a criminal.
I think the nature and execution of the crime is, in of itself, evidence of mental illness.

I agree that "writing him off" as mentally ill is a mistake; that being said, I also think that "radical white nationalist" and "mentally ill" aren't mutually exclusive attributes. It's important to point out that this appears to be politically motivated terrorism targeting the left; it's also probably important to note that the perpetrator is very likely suffering from mental illness.

I'm not sure which one of those things is more important (I'm not sure we should act as if either is 'more' important, really).

Perhaps neither is more important than the other, but as a friend posted recently

There's that van or its functional equivalent in a *lot* of towns in America right now. They'll hate pretty much whoever they're told to.

We shouldn't be a little scared right now? These people have always existed, but at least during my lifetime they've never been catered to or encouraged like this.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:22 pm UTC

So apparently I'm wrong. The ham radio car? Probably not a complete kook. But here is a short explanation of the kookmobile. Beware the nut poles!

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:16 pm UTC

Where's the harm in having a decorative van?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby natraj » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:35 pm UTC

eight dead this morning in an antisemitic hate attack at a pittsburgh synagogue. this could go in the "dark news" thread or whatever but i feel like the rise in hate crimes is pretty relevant to a presidential administration that has no pretense of subtly stoking these things and literally peddles antisemitic conspiracies as fact on the regular.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:52 pm UTC

Uh, what antisemitic conspiracy theories? Trump is an irredeemable ass, but I dont get the impression he's an antisemite.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby natraj » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:59 pm UTC

a) i said the administration, not trump personally, and there have been in the past two years so very many antisemitic rightwing fucknuts that trump has surrounded himself with that it's terrifying
b) but since you're talking about trump personally his constant and very vocal refrain about george soros being a nefarious boogeyman who is funding the left is one and jewish people have been saying it For Ever, and lo and behold after years of banging on this antisemitic drum now people are sending bombs to george soros and mass murdering us.
(but also, c) if you don't get the impression that someone who calls people waving swastikas and chanting "jews will not replace us" Very Fine People is an antisemite, maybe you should examine your own antisemitism.)
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:03 pm UTC

Along with the fine people on both sides, there was this, where Trump deliberately didn't mention Jews during the Holocaust memorial, which was obviously playing to Holocaust deniers.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... al/514974/

Then there was the retweeting an image of Clinton with a Star of David:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/05/us/p ... mitic.html

And there was this, where Trump pushes an anti-Soros conspiracy theory, which obviously plays well with his Nazi base:
https://thinkprogress.org/donald-trump- ... 2b3d02a86/

Trump is definitely a fan of the Nazis.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:53 pm UTC

@natraj

a) He is surrounding himself with rightwing fucknuts, but they aren't particularly anti-semitic fucknuts. Breitbart, the most rightwingiest fucknuttiest of the bunch isn't really antisemitic himself. Keep in mind he is also surrounding himself with various Jews, and not just self-hating Jews but regular ol' rich Jews like his douchebag son in law or Steven Mnuchin (who went into business with George Soros!).
b) George Soros is the conservative boogieman, and while yes, many anti-semites use him as a dog whistle for the Jewminati or whatever, there are reasons beyond "he's a JOO" that he's said boogieman.
c) Probably your strongest point. I am deeply concerned about Trump's support for the rightwing nutters. In many ways, I think it's in some ways worse than if Trump was actually an anti-semite, in that he simply doesn't care who he harms as long as he gets the support he needs; it can be argued that killing because you care is better than killing because you don't. After all, since this is already Godwin'd up in here, the horror of the Nazis wasn't the image of jack-booted thugs kicking an old man to death but the image of a bureaucrat calmly drafting all the paperwork that an organized death camp would create with the crematorium smokestacks in view of his window

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:48 pm UTC

Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:59 pm UTC

Uh, dude, I'm in no way arguing that we should keep Trump. I just don't think we should claim that the sentient mass of diarrhea shaped in the form of our President contains pea green poo, if only because his supporters will lath onto this falsehood and argue that because you are wrong about him containing pea green poo that the pulsating mass of stool must also smell like roses and he does not contain long braids of hazelnut brown or smooth snakes of mahogany with a streak of blood.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:04 pm UTC

The point is that if you surround yourself with antisemite rhetoric, then that is how you are going to be judged.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:11 pm UTC

But he isn't surrounding himself with antisemites. He tolerates them elsewhere, which does make me extremely uncomfortable, but he isn't directly surrounding himself with them.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby natraj » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:29 pm UTC

aaaaaaaaaaanyway my post was about the fact that the trump administration has frequently dogwhistled antisemitic bullshit (his whole "i'm not a globalist i'm a nationalist" is literally pandering directly to white nationalists and jewish people have talked For A Long Time about how "globalist" is used by antisemites to prop up the Jewish People Are A Shady World-Dominating Cabal bullshit) but then corruptuser took the goalposts and ran with them somewhere the hell else ("how can you say they have said antisemitic conspiracy theories? do you have PROOF that trump himself hates all jooz?") which! is fucking bullshit to begin with since that wasn't what i had originally said BUT since you moved the goalposts somewhere bullshit, yes, trump is in fact an antisemite i don't care what is in someone's deepest darkest heart, when they put people like steve bannon in their administration, erase jewish people from the holocaust, and at every turn try their damndest not to alienate the actual literal neonazis who are tryna kill us then yes, the president is an antisemite AS WELL AS the fact that his administration props up antisemitic conspiracy theories.

but anyway i didn't come back here to read cu's bs apologism, just to note that the death count is now up to 11.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:58 pm UTC

You were the one who claimed that Trump's admin
natraj wrote:literally peddles antisemitic conspiracies as fact on the regular


1) I am Jewish
2) as a result I take antisemitism extremely seriously
3) I actually know some Jewish people who live(d) in Pittsburgh and I am waiting for the names of the victims to be released, and am a bit unsure of whether or not I should be relieved if they aren't on that list (and someone else is)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:28 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:3) I actually know some Jewish people who live(d) in Pittsburgh and I am waiting for the names of the victims to be released, and am a bit unsure of whether or not I should be relieved if they aren't on that list (and someone else is)
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that no one close to you ends up being on the list.
CorruptUser wrote:You were the one who claimed that Trump's admin
natraj wrote:literally peddles antisemitic conspiracies as fact on the regular


1) I am Jewish
2) as a result I take antisemitism extremely seriously
Being Jewish and not seeing all the antisemitic dog-whistling doesn't negate all the antisemitic dog-whistling; plenty of Jewish people have, themselves, pointed out the Trump administration's antisemitic dog whistling.

Plenty of examples have been pointed out in this very thread, but here's a couple more:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/donald-tru ... eline/amp/

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:15 pm UTC

Victims ID'd

No one I knew. Luckily, I suppose, the youngest was 54.


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