Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:27 pm UTC

Liri wrote:That was a heck of a hearing.

Spoiler:
It looks like the argument that Palin would be a "heartbeat away from the presidency" bore out. Eeesh.


Dark567 wrote:
ObsessoMom wrote:Wait, what?

I can't keep up.
John McCain looked incredibly senile during the Comey hearing.


Thanks for the explanation. Sadly, I'm obviously not the only one who can't keep up.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Xeio » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:45 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
That was a heck of a hearing.
Spoiler:
It looks like the argument that Palin would be a "heartbeat away from the presidency" bore out. Eeesh.
Hah, back when the conutry was worried an idiot might be the vice president.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:47 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:John McCain looked incredibly senile during the Comey hearing.

Jesus, this guy needs to retire. He refers to Trump as Comey several times and is just completely confused on Clinton vs. Trump. "How can you conclude anything about Clinton's email thing when there's still an open case on Russia!?" (paraphrasing)

Senile, yes.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:14 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
Dark567 wrote:John McCain looked incredibly senile during the Comey hearing.

Jesus, this guy needs to retire. He refers to Trump as Comey several times and is just completely confused on Clinton vs. Trump. "How can you conclude anything about Clinton's email thing when there's still an open case on Russia!?" (paraphrasing)

Senile, yes.

He's normally pretty sharp, so unless this happens again, McCain will stay on until 2022 reelection. His aides will make him look competent until then.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:45 pm UTC

When my father acts like that I always worry he's had another mini-stroke.

How old is McCain?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby RCT Bob » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:05 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:When my father acts like that I always worry he's had another mini-stroke.

How old is McCain?


He's 80. His story now is that "he shouldn’t stay up late watching the Diamondbacks night games."

On a more important note than McCain's night games, Trump has stated he's willing to testify under oath as well about the whole Comey ordeal. Trump obviously knows that there's no evidence of most of Comey's statements beyond Comey's word as they were one-on-one conversations (and Comey wrote the memos), so it's essentially a his-word-against-my-word situation. It's a risky move for sure, if Trump denies everything under oath and it then somehow turns out he lied, I'm pretty sure that's an impeachable offence as well. But on the other hand it could very well discredit Comey and by effect get him some relief out of this mess. I just wonder if Trump realises how risky this move is, exposing himself to difficult questions from bloodthirsty DNC senators.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:52 pm UTC

RCT Bob wrote:I just wonder if Trump realises how risky this move is,

Any time this question is asked, it's a safe bet that the answer is "no."

Now, about those tapes he publically implied he had...
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby RCT Bob » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:05 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:
RCT Bob wrote:I just wonder if Trump realises how risky this move is,

Any time this question is asked, it's a safe bet that the answer is "no."

Now, about those tapes he publically implied he had...


If those tapes actually exist and Comey is actually telling the truth, Trump is really insane. I mean, I know the guy's insane, but this is under oath. Lying to a senate, which is part of Congress and therefore has the potential power to actually impeach you, while you actually know there's evidence out there that could prove you wrong, evidence that is actually likely to leak if he does testify. That's just plain delusional to think you can get away with that.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:14 pm UTC

Definitely. But we've seen no limits to his powers of self-delusion up 'til this point - why would he stop digging himself into holes now?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:23 pm UTC

Reporters (off mic) shouted "are there tapes?" to which he mumbled something to the effect of "you'll be disappointed at the answer." Which to me implies greatly that there are no (and never have been) tapes, and Trump was just blustering with his whole "he better hope there's no tapes!"
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:28 pm UTC

You could see Burr, Warner, and Feinstein conferring a bit while McCain was rambling. The woman behind him looked so uncomfortable.

freezeblade wrote:Reporters (off mic) shouted "are there tapes?" to which he mumbled something to the effect of "you'll be disappointed at the answer." Which to me implies greatly that there are no (and never have been) tapes, and Drumpf was just blustering with his whole "he better hope there's no tapes!"

That's what I was guessing before reading this. Some feeble attempt to get Comey to not testify.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:53 pm UTC

That's definitely possible. On the other hand, there was a lot of discussion when the "tapes" thing first came up about the fact that he does have a history of surreptitiously recording conversations at his properties, and one of his staffers strongly implied to a reporter that goings-on in the Oval Office are being recorded.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:02 am UTC

commodorejohn wrote:Definitely. But we've seen no limits to his powers of self-delusion up 'til this point - why would he stop digging himself into holes now?

His staff and lawyers may not be the greatest, but they do try to protect Trump. Remember during the access hollywood tapes? They were in full force at that point. This is serious enough that Trump may submit to his staff, for a while anyway.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:45 am UTC

Oh, they try, for sure. I mean, they kept him off Twitter for a whole day and a half when his original plan was to do a running live-response feed during the entire Comey testimony! But sooner or later he manages to wrest his phone back from whichever of his handlers is playing keep-away with it and then it's right back to stupidly undercutting his own defenders. Now he's offering to testify under oath about the whole affair, and you can practically hear them tearing their hair out at the thought.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:26 am UTC

commodorejohn wrote:Now he's offering to testify under oath about the whole affair, and you can practically hear them tearing their hair out at the thought.
...did he seriously offer to do that? Like, for realsies?

I mean, holy shit, that's some basic 101 high-school civics course knowledge right there. American teenagers know that the last thing you want to do when you're accused of a crime is go testify under oath that you didn't do it. Even if you're innocent, don't do it.

For fuck's sake, not testifying in your own defense is quite possibly the only piece of useful knowledge you'll ever get out of watching episodes of Law and Order (besides 'Don't watch episodes of Law and Order').

EDIT: The fact that this man is both somehow still rich and also managed to become the President of the United States is quite possibly the single greatest repudiation of capitalism -- along with our political process -- that I can imagine. There is no way a man this incompetent could succeed this wildly unless your system is designed to reward mediocrity, banality, and stupidity.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:06 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:Now he's offering to testify under oath about the whole affair, and you can practically hear them tearing their hair out at the thought.
...did he seriously offer to do that? Like, for realsies?

I mean, holy shit, that's some basic 101 high-school civics course knowledge right there. American teenagers know that the last thing you want to do when you're accused of a crime is go testify under oath that you didn't do it. Even if you're innocent, don't do it.

For fuck's sake, not testifying in your own defense is quite possibly the only piece of useful knowledge you'll ever get out of watching episodes of Law and Order (besides 'Don't watch episodes of Law and Order').

EDIT: The fact that this man is both somehow still rich and also managed to become the President of the United States is quite possibly the single greatest repudiation of capitalism -- along with our political process -- that I can imagine. There is no way a man this incompetent could succeed this wildly unless your system is designed to reward mediocrity, banality, and stupidity.
It's a testament to his staff that Trump isn't living out of a cardboard box. That, and Trump does have some charisma. He's not completely worthless; just in over his head, and a terrible person. Though someone really needs to throw the book at him about his charity scams.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Diadem » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:09 am UTC

RCT Bob wrote:On a more important note than McCain's night games, Trump has stated he's willing to testify under oath as well about the whole Comey ordeal.

Did he?
KARL: So he said those things under oath, would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of those events?

TRUMP: 100 percent. I didn’t say “under oath,” I hardly know the man, I’m not gonna say “I want you to pledge allegiance,” who would do that, who would ask a man to pledge allegiance under oath? I mean think of it, I hardly know the man, it doesn’t make sense. No I didn’t say that and I didn’t say the other.

That's too incoherent to even try to attempt to distill meaning from. It seems likely that Trump simply doesn't know what 'under oath' means. Or maybe he misheard the question, though I can't think of anything he could have heard that would make his answer make sense.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:50 pm UTC

RCT Bob wrote:Trump has stated he's willing to testify under oath as well about the whole Comey ordeal.
I say it's a bluff. When push comes to shove, a lot more water will have gone under the bridge.

But let's assume there are tapes (or digital recordings), and they corroborate Comey's testimony. It would probably be pretty simple to edit them to make Comey look like a liar, and have Trump look vindicated. It might well be that Trump's "maybe I'll tell you shortly" is buying time to make those changes. I've heard nobody mention this possibility; in order to trust the recordings we'd need a chain of custody, and I doubt that exists.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:56 pm UTC

They can't release any Whitehouse tapes, because everyone knows they have the sounds of The Silence on them. Or, rather, they did, but because they all have the sounds of The Silence on them, we can't now remember it.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:13 pm UTC

Umm... I think you need to go back and rewatch that season.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:21 pm UTC

True, you can't remember seeing them. They're not big on dialogue.

However cool link back to intelligent past fiction. Better to think about than current, half-wit fuelled reality.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:24 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:Umm... I think you need to go back and rewatch that season.

I can't remember having watched it in the first place (but, even if I did, they probably just hide, to stay out of sight and not be killed...)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby morriswalters » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:27 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
RCT Bob wrote:Trump has stated he's willing to testify under oath as well about the whole Comey ordeal.
I say it's a bluff. When push comes to shove, a lot more water will have gone under the bridge.

But let's assume there are tapes (or digital recordings), and they corroborate Comey's testimony. It would probably be pretty simple to edit them to make Comey look like a liar, and have Trump look vindicated. It might well be that Trump's "maybe I'll tell you shortly" is buying time to make those changes. I've heard nobody mention this possibility; in order to trust the recordings we'd need a chain of custody, and I doubt that exists.

Jose
Well, they only need a chain of custody once after they have come to the official notice of prosecutors, right? But if push came to shove, then they would probably want the devices that recorded them and the unaltered hard drives that have them as files or the original tapes. Failing to supply those after have admitted to them(something that hasn't happened to this point) could leave to obstruction charges.

Nixon tried transcripts first and had to surrender the tapes. At which point they found the gap, and finished Nixon. And in Trump's case, more than likely they would want all such drives, no matter what was on them to make sure they got it all. Talk about the fly on the wall.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:21 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Well, they only need a chain of custody once after they have come to the official notice of prosecutors, right? But if push came to shove, then they would probably want the devices that recorded them and the unaltered hard drives that have them as files or the original tapes. Failing to supply those after have admitted to them(something that hasn't happened to this point) could leave to obstruction charges.

And there have been rumors since around the time he first implied the existence of tapes and especially since a special counsel was appointed that staffers have been leery of getting rid of anything in case they get called on to provide it. If they do exist, I'm certain somebody has an unedited copy stashed away.

The Great Hippo wrote:...did he seriously offer to do that? Like, for realsies?

I mean, holy shit, that's some basic 101 high-school civics course knowledge right there. American teenagers know that the last thing you want to do when you're accused of a crime is go testify under oath that you didn't do it. Even if you're innocent, don't do it.

For fuck's sake, not testifying in your own defense is quite possibly the only piece of useful knowledge you'll ever get out of watching episodes of Law and Order (besides 'Don't watch episodes of Law and Order').

Yup. And for a preview, here's a fun account of another time he was on the witness stand:
Emphasis mine wrote:Gay Kingman-Wapato, an Indian gaming proponent who attended the hearing, was watching Trump closely.

“I could see his face getting redder and redder,” she recalled.

When it was Trump’s turn to speak, he abandoned his script, telling lawmakers that he had decided that it was “very boring” and “Basically Decent.” His speech had included conciliatory language and professed uncertainty about the mob’s alleged infiltration.

Instead, Trump told lawmakers that organized crime “is rampant — I don’t mean a little bit — is rampant on Indian reservations.” He predicted “one of the biggest scandals since Al Capone.” Then came the line that many Native Americans would remember for decades: that the federally recognized Connecticut tribe that owned Foxwoods — the Mashantucket Pequots — did not look like real Indians.

I do so hope they call his bluff here. It'd be one for the ages.

Edit: haha, that forum filter.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:42 pm UTC

Trump won't visit until the Brits like him.

Yay, we don't ever have to host the misogynist, bigoted, lying, orange half-wit! [Sorry to stretch the truth - I was trying to be nice.]
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Grop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:50 pm UTC

I wish quite a few foreign head of states and princes would take a hint.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:42 pm UTC

Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby speising » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:50 pm UTC


Communications Over Various Feeds Electronically For Engagement

Someone put some thought into this...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:05 pm UTC

I can't follow all of the links from Jordan. Please tell me this is for real! If I clap my hands and say "Trump is an arse-hat" will it be real?' I just think that's epic.

Is it just me or has the entire world, in the last 9 months, gone completely bat-shit crazy?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:27 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:I can't follow all of the links from Jordan. Please tell me this is for real! If I clap my hands and say "Trump is an arse-hat" will it be real?' I just think that's epic.

Is it just me or has the entire world, in the last 9 months, gone completely bat-shit crazy?

A lot of it is built up tension that had been held back. Trump is merely a catalyst. Though he's probable pushing bad things along faster than a generic president.

In other news Sessions has promised an open testimony Tuesday. Should be interesting unless he pulls a mafia style " I don't recall" that Gonzales pulled during the Bush torture years. Kushner has already used that excuse several times now.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:02 am UTC

sardia wrote:
Jumble wrote:I can't follow all of the links from Jordan. Please tell me this is for real! If I clap my hands and say "Drumpf is an arse-hat" will it be real?' I just think that's epic.

Is it just me or has the entire world, in the last 9 months, gone completely bat-shit crazy?

A lot of it is built up tension that had been held back. Drumpf is merely a catalyst. Though he's probable pushing bad things along faster than a generic president.

In other news Sessions has promised an open testimony Tuesday. Should be interesting unless he pulls a mafia style " I don't recall" that Gonzales pulled during the Bush torture years. Kushner has already used that excuse several times now.

I think it's going to be pretty frustrating. If he knowingly (and provably) perjures himself it'll be something, though.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:10 pm UTC

Yeah, I have no doubt Sessions is going out there to spin and cover asses, but since he'll be under oath and at the mercy of the committee it could get interesting.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:21 pm UTC

Is there any chance that Trump could keep his views on the west London tower block fire to his fucking self?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby speising » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:41 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:Is there any chance that Trump could keep his views on the west London tower block fire to his fucking self?

Notice how nobody talks about gun bans?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:43 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:Is there any chance that Trump could keep his views on the west London tower block fire to his fucking self?

I was wondering if he'd find some angle to take a pop at Khan. Has he actually said something?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:55 pm UTC

Not that I'm aware, but for the sake of my mental health I do not follow his insane twitter dribbling.

I anticipate being as offended and outraged in the morning by his attempts to capitalise on the suffering of innocent victims for his own benefit as I was after the Borough Market attack. I really strongly suggest that he does not even think of showing his hatefilled, orange face in the UK at any point in the near future. Not if his pathetic, childish ego is going to struggle with the lothing of a nation.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Special counsel Robert Mueller is apparently now investigating Trump for obstruction of justice and various Trump associates for possible financial crimes.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:55 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Special counsel Robert Mueller is apparently now investigating Trump for obstruction of justice and various Trump associates for possible financial crimes.


Have to love how Trump and his business/brand weren't fodder for investigation, as the investigation was about Russia meddling in the election. Firing Comey opened up the obstruction of justice charge against Trump himself, which in turn opens up his whole business dealings (as they need to be investigated to discover the details he may have been attempting to obstruct the discovery of).

Wonder if it's even possible for Trump to get his head wrapped around the concept of "shut up and keep your head down".
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:29 am UTC

Dauric wrote:Have to love how Trump and his business/brand weren't fodder for investigation, as the investigation was about Russia meddling in the election. Firing Comey opened up the obstruction of justice charge against Trump himself, which in turn opens up his whole business dealings (as they need to be investigated to discover the details he may have been attempting to obstruct the discovery of).

Wonder if it's even possible for Trump to get his head wrapped around the concept of "shut up and keep your head down".

A-yup. This is the scandal that "sad trombone" was made for.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:23 am UTC

Have I been reading 538 too much or is the rest of the media not acknowledging just how serious the investigation against Trump is right now?


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