Isla Vista shooting

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Isla Vista shooting

Postby Zamfir » Sun May 25, 2014 7:11 pm UTC

On request, a separate topic for the Isla Vista shooting. The LA Times has plenty of info:http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-isla-vista-shooting-near-ucsb-stories-storygallery.html

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 25, 2014 7:31 pm UTC

Copying this over from the other thread, because it's something that has come up in pretty much every discussion of this, as though sending fuckheads like this guy to prostitutes will magically make everything sunshine and roses.

gmalivuk wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Personally, I vote for legalizing/regulating prostitution. This guy wants a supermodel? Let him pay for it. He has a BMW, he can afford it if he's so desperate that he'd rather kill people than talk to a fat girl.
No, how about we don't shunt the problems of violent misogynists off onto a group of people who are already disproportionately likely to be raped, beaten, and killed by violent misogynists.

Also, why do you think a prostitute would have fixed the problem for him? He was complaining about a lack of any romantic attention whatsoever from women, not merely a lack of sex. If you were upset because no one cared for you enough to cook you dinner, would going to restaurants all the time fix that? Would it make you feel better to be reminded of the fact that you have to pay because no one is interested in doing this for you on a volunteer basis?
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby K-R » Sun May 25, 2014 7:35 pm UTC

Would it not be a better idea to just move all the posts across? They're not intertwined with any other discussion or anything.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 25, 2014 7:44 pm UTC

Agreed.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Brace » Sun May 25, 2014 7:53 pm UTC

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby CorruptUser » Sun May 25, 2014 7:54 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Copying this over from the other thread, because it's something that has come up in pretty much every discussion of this, as though sending fuckheads like this guy to prostitutes will magically make everything sunshine and roses.

gmalivuk wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Personally, I vote for legalizing/regulating prostitution. This guy wants a supermodel? Let him pay for it. He has a BMW, he can afford it if he's so desperate that he'd rather kill people than talk to a fat girl.
No, how about we don't shunt the problems of violent misogynists off onto a group of people who are already disproportionately likely to be raped, beaten, and killed by violent misogynists.

Also, why do you think a prostitute would have fixed the problem for him? He was complaining about a lack of any romantic attention whatsoever from women, not merely a lack of sex. If you were upset because no one cared for you enough to cook you dinner, would going to restaurants all the time fix that? Would it make you feel better to be reminded of the fact that you have to pay because no one is interested in doing this for you on a volunteer basis?


No, it won't make this the land of rainbows and unicorns and rainbow colored unicorns. But would it make the world better? Given that prostitutes pretty much deal with misogynist often-violent assholes daily, it probably wouldn't make things worse but at least if legal there would theoretically be some protection for the prostitutes. Currently it's along the lines of "report a rape/abuse, charged with prostitution". Safer conditions for prostitutes, safer conditions for everyone else. Only losers are the pimps and the guys that own for-profit prisons. And maybe drug dealers.

According to this Cracked article, dating a prostitute does do wonders for your self esteem, even if it is "fake". So while the kid would still be fucked up in the head, maybe he would've stayed a MRA PUA douche instead of mass murderer.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 25, 2014 8:08 pm UTC

Oh, sure, legalizing it would be a good thing for sex workers themselves. I'm more talking about the general attitude of "geez why didn't he just hire a whore then he'd be fine".
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby K-R » Sun May 25, 2014 8:17 pm UTC

Since there are enough posts in here now to kill off the idea of a clean split, I'll copy this over from the old thread:
K-R wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Umm... a LOT more than 1% of women are "ugly". Of women age 18-24, 1/5 are obese, so unless you are a chubbychaser 20% of women are 'ugly'. Maybe another 2/5 are overweight. That leaves 2/5. Of those, they have to be healthy, clear skin, symmetrical, put together, clean, "large tracts of land", etc etc, so you are looking at maybe 1/5 "attractive".

This paragraph didn't do a particularly good job of convincing me you have the right to be lecturing people about their attitudes towards women. You start out by mocking those with different taste to you, and then proceed to lay out a lengthy list of attributes you require for a woman to be merely 'attractive'. It's also worth noting that the only categories I was excluding were 'ugly' and 'supermodel'. Therefore including not only 'attractive' but also 'average-looking' and 'unattractive'.

And in the field of criminology, the biggest question is Why are people committing crimes. In the field of sociology, it's How do we fix society so people don't commit crimes.

Personally, I vote for legalizing/regulating prostitution. This guy wants a supermodel? Let him pay for it. He has a BMW, he can afford it if he's so desperate that he'd rather kill people than talk to a fat girl.

And here, again, with 'fat women are ugly'.

It's also entirely possible to be lonely and pissed at the world due to your lack of romantic success without concluding that the solution is to kill people. He seems very similar to me in a lot of ways, and I've certainly never contemplated killing anyone.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby BlackSails » Sun May 25, 2014 9:16 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Oh, sure, legalizing it would be a good thing for sex workers themselves. I'm more talking about the general attitude of "geez why didn't he just hire a whore then he'd be fine".


At one point his parents hired a "social skills counselor" to work with him, one of whom happened to be female. He enjoyed it at first, but then was ashamed that he had to pay a girl to be his friend when other people had friends normally.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby aoeu » Sun May 25, 2014 9:19 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Copying this over from the other thread, because it's something that has come up in pretty much every discussion of this, as though sending fuckheads like this guy to prostitutes will magically make everything sunshine and roses.

gmalivuk wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Personally, I vote for legalizing/regulating prostitution. This guy wants a supermodel? Let him pay for it. He has a BMW, he can afford it if he's so desperate that he'd rather kill people than talk to a fat girl.
No, how about we don't shunt the problems of violent misogynists off onto a group of people who are already disproportionately likely to be raped, beaten, and killed by violent misogynists.

Also, why do you think a prostitute would have fixed the problem for him? He was complaining about a lack of any romantic attention whatsoever from women, not merely a lack of sex. If you were upset because no one cared for you enough to cook you dinner, would going to restaurants all the time fix that? Would it make you feel better to be reminded of the fact that you have to pay because no one is interested in doing this for you on a volunteer basis?

We are not trying to fix his problems in romance, but his urge to commit murder-suicide. It doesn't seem that far-fetched that putting some positive content into his life would work. It's not only about addressing his specific professed reasons, but about making life worthwhile to live for an unstable individual.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 25, 2014 9:27 pm UTC

aoeu wrote:It doesn't seem that far-fetched that putting some positive content into his life would work.
BlackSails wrote:but then was ashamed that he had to pay a girl to be his friend when other people had friends normally.
Why do you (aoeu) think that paying someone for sex would have turned out any differently?

I mean, hell, he obviously knew prostitution was a thing, because duh. So he already apparently didn't think that paying someone for sex would make him feel better.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby aoeu » Sun May 25, 2014 9:34 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
aoeu wrote:It doesn't seem that far-fetched that putting some positive content into his life would work.
BlackSails wrote:but then was ashamed that he had to pay a girl to be his friend when other people had friends normally.
Why do you (aoeu) think that paying someone for sex would have turned out any differently?

I mean, hell, he obviously knew prostitution was a thing, because duh. So he already apparently didn't think that paying someone for sex would make him feel better.

I already explained it. Also, prostitution is illegal where he lives (well I didn't check...) and he was autistic in a colloquial sense at least.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 25, 2014 9:50 pm UTC

You did not already explain anything. BlackSails pointed out that he was ashamed at having to pay someone to be friendly with him, so why wouldn't he also be ashamed at having to pay someone to have sex with him?

He was willing to murder six people. You think the illegality of prostitution is why he didn't hire a prostitute?

What does his being "colloquially autistic" have to do with anything?
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby BlackSails » Sun May 25, 2014 10:04 pm UTC

"Colloquially autistic" is just a rather rude way to call someone weird. Its a meaningless phase

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 25, 2014 10:05 pm UTC

Oh yeah, I got that part. I'm just curious as to wtf aoeu thinks it has to do with any other part of the discussion.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby CorruptUser » Sun May 25, 2014 10:10 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:He was willing to murder six people. You think the illegality of prostitution is why he didn't hire a prostitute?


It's not just the illegality of it. It's everything else that comes with the illegality of it. Am I going to get robbed? Is she clean? Is the place we do it sanitary? Where do I find it? If I get caught, how will this affect me longterm?

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Brace » Sun May 25, 2014 10:18 pm UTC

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Zcorp » Sun May 25, 2014 11:00 pm UTC

Here is his video titled "Elliot Rodger's Retribution"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQUW3Km ... 1401059977

Here is his 'manifesto'
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/225960813

He was an entitled, dumb, seemingly autistic individual (his manifesto displays he never developed the ability for abstract thinking or recognition of other minds really existing, displayed largely by his idea that dressing well and going to Domino's will result in women walking up to and then sleeping with him, and the only thing he thought was he best option for achieving that goal, but many others as well) who deserved better parents and teachers than he seemingly received. Little was done, that he recognized, to understand who he was by anyone around him, to assist him through life, and then his terrible self created a very unfortunate occurrence. There were many signs for many years that people should of seen he was in desperate need of help, while seemingly getting little or none of it. Good of his mother to at least warn the police she suspected he would turn more violent, and unsurprising they did nothing of value to stop this from happening.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby jareds » Sun May 25, 2014 11:48 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Oh, sure, legalizing it would be a good thing for sex workers themselves. I'm more talking about the general attitude of "geez why didn't he just hire a whore then he'd be fine".


At one point his parents hired a "social skills counselor" to work with him, one of whom happened to be female. He enjoyed it at first, but then was ashamed that he had to pay a girl to be his friend when other people had friends normally.

In fact, when he then says that he didn't want any more female counselors after she moved away, he explicitly compares female counselors to hiring a prostitute. He seems quite uninterested in prostitutes. Of course, his thinking doesn't seem very consistent to me. He was obsessed with winning a huge lottery jackpot so that women would want him, driving to Arizona and spending hundreds on the Powerball on multiple occassions when the California lottery was below $100 million. While I don't think that getting women by being rich is prostitution, it seems more like prostitution than a female counselor, for crying out loud. Then there's the fact that he wanted women who he thought of as sluts, a classic combination of hating women and desiring them sexually.
CorruptUser wrote:It's not just the illegality of it. It's everything else that comes with the illegality of it. Am I going to get robbed? Is she clean? Is the place we do it sanitary? Where do I find it? If I get caught, how will this affect me longterm?

Driving to a legal brothel in Nevada would not have been materially more difficult than driving to Arizona to buy lottery tickets.

Given his distaste for prostitution and his ability to obtain it legally if he so desired, it's not very plausible that the legality or illegality of prostitution played any important role here.
Last edited by jareds on Mon May 26, 2014 1:29 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Brace » Mon May 26, 2014 12:01 am UTC

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby krogoth » Mon May 26, 2014 1:01 am UTC

Brace wrote:A change in social attitudes about prostitution might have helped. But then, a change in social attitudes about women would certainly have helped.

This. When TV portrays things in such a glorified light. Everything is so easy to do on tv when everyone is following the script.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/onlin ... 6931100044
The tweets from women "#YesAllWomen" The fear they still hold. Rightly so it seems, is very saddening.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Nordic Einar » Mon May 26, 2014 1:25 am UTC

Zcorp wrote:Here is his video titled "Elliot Rodger's Retribution"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQUW3Km ... 1401059977

Here is his 'manifesto'
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/225960813

He was an entitled, dumb, seemingly autistic individual (his manifesto displays he never developed the ability for abstract thinking or recognition of other minds really existing, displayed largely by his idea that dressing well and going to Domino's will result in women walking up to and then sleeping with him, and the only thing he thought was he best option for achieving that goal, but many others as well) who deserved better parents and teachers than he seemingly received. Little was done, that he recognized, to understand who he was by anyone around him, to assist him through life, and then his terrible self created a very unfortunate occurrence. There were many signs for many years that people should of seen he was in desperate need of help, while seemingly getting little or none of it. Good of his mother to at least warn the police she suspected he would turn more violent, and unsurprising they did nothing of value to stop this from happening.


Autistic people are not incapable of abstract thought, nor are they incapable of recognizing other people's minds. At best you may say autism interferes with one's ability to communicate with non-autistic people but it isn't because you are incapable of viewing them as people nor that you are incapable of thinking abstractly.

Ya'll are describing *sociopathy* and ascribing it to autism. That is beyond fucked up. It's also oppressing. Stop it.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Aetius » Mon May 26, 2014 1:43 am UTC

Brace wrote:A change in social attitudes about prostitution might have helped. But then, a change in social attitudes about women would certainly have helped.


I highly doubt either would have helped. It may have shifted his targets, but the core conflict between his virulent narcissism and reality wasn't going anywhere without serious, professional intervention, and maybe not even then.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Zcorp » Mon May 26, 2014 1:55 am UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:Autistic people are not incapable of abstract thought, nor are they incapable of recognizing other people's minds. At best you may say autism interferes with one's ability to communicate with non-autistic people but it isn't because you are incapable of viewing them as people nor that you are incapable of thinking abstractly.

Ya'll are describing *sociopathy* and ascribing it to autism. That is beyond fucked up. It's also oppressing. Stop it.

I'm not describing anti-social personality disorder, and you'd have to know next to nothing about psychopathology to even suggest anti-social from what the media, his videos and his writing tells us of him.

Autism is a developmental disorder that has a large variety of behavioral characteristics, however the consistent ones, repetitive often obsessive behavior along with impaired social interaction are the defining behaviors of the disorder. With great frequency other aspects of their cognitive development are also impaired, like the inability to develop Concrete or Formal Operations. Lack of awareness of others minds is also a incredibly common behavior displayed by those with autism. His anger and 'tantrums' are also frequent behaviors of the autistic. Even the simplest check would back my statement that he is seemingly autistic. Go ahead and read the Autistic Disorder entry in the DSM, it will include a description of every single behavior I mentioned here.

Do you have any experience or study with the population directly or indirectly or are you just speaking out of your ass?
Last edited by Zcorp on Mon May 26, 2014 2:01 am UTC, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Mon May 26, 2014 1:56 am UTC

Aetius wrote:
Brace wrote:A change in social attitudes about prostitution might have helped. But then, a change in social attitudes about women would certainly have helped.
I highly doubt either would have helped. It may have shifted his targets, but the core conflict between his virulent narcissism and reality wasn't going anywhere without serious, professional intervention, and maybe not even then.

So would you argue that all the men who have committed assault or murder in response to rejection from women are just virulent narcissists whose actions couldn't be prevented by anything but serious, professional intervention?

Personally, I think that maybe if he hadn't had a massive "support" network of other angry misogynists helping to foment his viewpoint (that women were to blame for his relationship woes), he might not have gone ahead and murdered six people before killing himself. And I think that if there were a change in social attitudes about women, it might not be as easy to find such cesspits of insular angry misogyny in the form of MRA/PUA groups.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Aetius » Mon May 26, 2014 2:17 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:So would you argue that all the men who have committed assault or murder in response to rejection from women are just virulent narcissists whose actions couldn't be prevented by anything but serious, professional intervention?


No, I would not argue that. But in this particular case, everything he has written and said screams virulent narcissism. He targeted women because he viewed them as the "arbiter" of society's judgment on him. As I said, different attitudes about women might have changed his targets, but he was going to blame somebody for the fact that society didn't agree with his view of himself as the greatest thing ever. We're talking about a guy who planned to kill his own brother to prevent being "surpassed" by him.

Personally, I think that maybe if he hadn't had a massive "support" network of other angry misogynists helping to foment his viewpoint (that women were to blame for his relationship woes), he might not have gone ahead and murdered six people before killing himself. And I think that if there were a change in social attitudes about women, it might not be as easy to find such cesspits of insular angry misogyny in the form of MRA/PUA groups.


Maybe, but that's a strong maybe. I'd need to see a much clearer causal link to support that notion.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby krogoth » Mon May 26, 2014 2:24 am UTC

Aetius wrote:
Brace wrote:A change in social attitudes about prostitution might have helped. But then, a change in social attitudes about women would certainly have helped.


I highly doubt either would have helped. It may have shifted his targets, but the core conflict between his virulent narcissism and reality wasn't going anywhere without serious, professional intervention, and maybe not even then.

I can't say I agree with you, I would say this is along the lines of the rape culture, friend-zone culture. I don't like that term, Friend-zone. It's really just another douche-bag culture.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby EMTP » Mon May 26, 2014 2:30 am UTC

jareds wrote:
BlackSails wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Oh, sure, legalizing it would be a good thing for sex workers themselves. I'm more talking about the general attitude of "geez why didn't he just hire a whore then he'd be fine".


At one point his parents hired a "social skills counselor" to work with him, one of whom happened to be female. He enjoyed it at first, but then was ashamed that he had to pay a girl to be his friend when other people had friends normally.

In fact, when he then says that he didn't want any more female counselors after she moved away, he explicitly compares female counselors to hiring a prostitute. He seems quite uninterested in prostitutes. Of course, his thinking doesn't seem very consistent to me. He was obsessed with winning a huge lottery jackpot so that women would want him, driving to Arizona and spending hundreds on the Powerball on multiple occassions when the California lottery was below $100 million. While I don't think that getting women by being rich is prostitution, it seems more like prostitution than a female counselor, for crying out loud. Then there's the fact that he wanted women who he thought of as sluts, a classic combination of hating women and desiring them sexually.
CorruptUser wrote:It's not just the illegality of it. It's everything else that comes with the illegality of it. Am I going to get robbed? Is she clean? Is the place we do it sanitary? Where do I find it? If I get caught, how will this affect me longterm?

Driving to a legal brothel in Nevada would not have been materially more difficult than driving to Arizona to buy lottery tickets.

Given his distaste for prostitution and his ability to obtain it legally if he so desired, it's not very plausible that the legality or illegality of prostitution played any important role here.


He seems to have been a very lonely guy with no social skills.

Like a lot of people, he seems to have sublimated his loneliness into his (also very real) sexual frustration.

I doubt a prostitute would have helped him because his frustration is (it seems to me) not primarily with the lack of sex, as much as with the lack of feeling wanted, or valued, or a part of others' lives.

He wanted sex, I'm sure. But he sounds as though what was really hurting him was not feeling wanted by others.

If you wanted to change this guy's path, I think you would need to (somehow) provide him not with a sex partner, or even a girlfriend, but with a half a dozen good men friends. Having some relationships that worked might have taken off some of the huge pressure he felt to achieve a romantic relationship, which is the kind of motivation women can detect at a thousand yards and it sends them screaming.

Or, on the harm mitigation side, maybe just don't sell him a bunch of guns.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Paul in Saudi » Mon May 26, 2014 2:48 am UTC

For those of you who might not be keeping track....

2014 Mass Killing in USA

1) 16 January 2014 Spanish Fork UT, 5 killed
2) 3 February 2014 Cypress TX, 4 killed
3) 6 February 2014 Defiance OH, 4 dead
4) 20 February 2014 Indianapolis IN, 4 killed
5) 20 February 2014 Alturas, CA, 4 killed
6) 24 February 2014 Glade Springs VA 4 killed
7) 26 February 2014 Oak Lawn IL, 4 killed.
8) 2 April 2014 Fort Hood, TX, 4 killed
9) 24 May 2014 Goleta, CA, 7 killed

Total Incidents 9
Total killed 40

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby CorruptUser » Mon May 26, 2014 3:08 am UTC

Out of 320 million.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Mon May 26, 2014 3:21 am UTC

I'm sure the people living in the communities where mass shootings happened and especially the families of the victims are happy to know such events only kill a tiny fraction of the total US population.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Brace » Mon May 26, 2014 3:27 am UTC

This post had objectionable content.
Last edited by Brace on Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:50 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Mon May 26, 2014 3:34 am UTC

I guess specific acts of terrorism are seen as more newsworthy?
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Telchar » Mon May 26, 2014 3:52 am UTC

Nordic Einar wrote:Autistic people are not incapable of abstract thought, nor are they incapable of recognizing other people's minds.



One of the foremost researches on Autism (Simon Baron-Cohen) uses the term "mind blindness" to describe the social interactions of autistic individuals and says that, while they can see other people doing things, they have a very limited ability to infer motives or emotions in others. They essentially have no way to project mental states onto other people.

That being said, I agree, the armchair diagnosis need to stop. It doesn't do anything constructive visa vi this situation and may do real damage to people with these disorders. People with mental health issues are more likely to be the victims of violence than commit violence themselves. The only group for which this doesn't hold true are those suffering from psychotic symptoms (hallucinations, paranoia, etc...). So, baring a bizzare comorbidity of pyschotic symptoms and autism spectrum, labeling this person does less than nothing to explain the violence.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby K-R » Mon May 26, 2014 3:59 am UTC

EMTP wrote:If you wanted to change this guy's path, I think you would need to (somehow) provide him not with a sex partner, or even a girlfriend, but with a half a dozen good men friends.

Why men, specifically?

Or, on the harm mitigation side, maybe just don't sell him a bunch of guns.

At a news conference, police said Elliot Rodger had stabbed three male room-mates to death at his apartment.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27562917

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Mon May 26, 2014 4:03 am UTC

Telchar wrote:People with mental health issues are more likely to be the victims of violence than commit violence themselves.
This particular factoid is almost completely empty of real information, though, because it still doesn't tell us what either likelihood actually is or how it compares to people without mental health issues.
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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Telchar » Mon May 26, 2014 4:15 am UTC

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 5/fulltext

http://promoteacceptance.samhsa.gov/pub ... ?printid=1

For that last link, I find these particularly compelling

In reviewing the research on violence and mental illness, the Institute of Medicine concluded, “Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small,” and further, “the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population” (Institute of Medicine, 2006). For people with mental illnesses, violent behavior appears to be more common when there’s also the presence of other risk factors. These include substance abuse or dependence; a history of violence, juvenile detention, or physical abuse; and recent stressors such as being a crime victim, getting divorced, or losing a job (Elbogen and Johnson, 2009).

In addition:

“Research has shown that the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994).”
“. . . [T]he absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is still very small and . . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994).”
In a 1998 study that compared people discharged from acute psychiatric inpatient facilities and others in the same neighborhoods, researchers found that “there was no significant difference between the prevalence of violence by patients without symptoms of substance abuse and the prevalence of violence by others living in the same neighborhoods who were also without symptoms of substance abuse (Steadman, Mulvey, Monahan, Robbins, Applebaum, Grisso, Roth, and Silver, 1998).”
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby CorruptUser » Mon May 26, 2014 4:41 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:I'm sure the people living in the communities where mass shootings happened and especially the families of the victims are happy to know such events only kill a tiny fraction of the total US population.


Keep things in perspective. While obviously a tragedy, it's still rare. If it was common it wouldn't be news. Want to talk tragedy? One of THE worst mass murders in the US occurred in my town. Almost ended up in the building where it happened. I volunteered with Literacy Volunteers, and our students made up the bulk of the victims. I knew some of those that were in the building when it happened. But you think it never happens to you because it usually doesn't.

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby Beltayn » Mon May 26, 2014 4:55 am UTC

Is there any indication of why he felt motivated to kill his three male room-mates as well?

All the news has focused on his hatred for women, but why kill his male room-mates? Did they have girlfriends and therefore he was jealous?

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Re: Isla Vista shooting

Postby gmalivuk » Mon May 26, 2014 4:56 am UTC

All I've read of his "manifesto" were excerpts here and there, but I know there were other times when that was indeed the case.
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