The Darker Side of the News

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

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CorruptUser
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:11 pm UTC

I think you both missed the original reference. Opposition to estate taxes in the US were virtually always couched in some apocryphal story regarding a family farm that was being destroyed by inheritance taxes because the land value was so great that the working-poor family that had been there for generations was forced off of their property when the parents died. Now that the estate tax not only has been reduced from 55% to 40%, the point at which it begins has been raised from $675,000 to $11,180,000, so that's one big fucking farm that'll be affected by the estate tax.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Grop » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:20 pm UTC

Wealthy people are very good at complaining.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 pm UTC

Grop wrote:Wealthy people are very good at complaining.

The dirty little secret most Farmers don't want you to know is they are mostly really wealthy. The poor Farmers that testify to Congress are either lying about their wealth or are Uncle Tom's.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:56 pm UTC

Not exactly. Most of the acres are owned by assholes in suits with thousands of acres each and lend out the land for other people to make the "farmer" rich. However, in sheer numbers, the tiny family farms make up a greater percentage of the people on the farms, and there are an extremely large number of them that just barely eek out a living on their own farms in spite of having "fortunes" in land value.

Amazingly, I never completely understood the whole Collectivization craze amongst socialists. A tiny family farm is literally the case of the means of production being owned by the worker. But, no matter what the ostensible philosophy of any movement, the underlying philosophy of the people who worm their way to the top of the movement is always "give me power over everything for the sake of power alone".

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ijuin » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:00 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I think you both missed the original reference. Opposition to estate taxes in the US were virtually always couched in some apocryphal story regarding a family farm that was being destroyed by inheritance taxes because the land value was so great that the working-poor family that had been there for generations was forced off of their property when the parents died. Now that the estate tax not only has been reduced from 55% to 40%, the point at which it begins has been raised from $675,000 to $11,180,000, so that's one big fucking farm that'll be affected by the estate tax.


Exactly. Anybody who leaves an eleven million dollar estate is already in the one percent.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:23 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Amazingly, I never completely understood the whole Collectivization craze amongst socialists. A tiny family farm is literally the case of the means of production being owned by the worker.

Well, except when it's Land Barons* who actually owned everything and the "family farm" is a fragile tenanted arrangement where the arbiter of the relationship is the self-same landlord, with barely any (if any at all) legal restraints against figuratively or actually 'lording it' over that farming family,

Though under Collectivisation it also tends to be All Hail The New Boss, Same As The Old Boss (If We're Lucky**) and I'd be hard pressed to say what the ideal ownership plan is, with more direct ownership of your various parcels of land being susceptible to a disastrous growing season impacting on yours truly rather than possibly ameliorated by a beneficent and understanding overseer (local, governmental, etc) buffering your losses on the understanding that you'll likely get over it provide part of the buffer for another subordinate when they find themselves in similar situation. It's well beyond my pay-grade to pontificate upon the probably-mythical ideal.


* Even actual Barons, or within a rank or three.
** At least a hereditary (old style) or businessman (new style) landlord tended to know how to get the best out of the land, without trying idiotic things like letting/forcing complete novice non-farmers take over the groundwork. Witness Zimbabwe or the Cultural Revolution as strong examples of a sort of top-down Tragedy Of The Commons, but of course we're all also thinking of post-revolution Russia with truly weird stuff going on in the name of whichever X Year Plan it was at the time.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:07 am UTC

TIL that minecraft's creator went full alt right, and that makes me sad. First it was dilbert, and now Minecraft. All my childhood influences are awful people. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcircleje ... s_are_bad/

On the brightside, Mojang pretends he doesn't exist, so it's like a chik fil a situation. Great product, terrible (former)owner

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:15 am UTC

sardia wrote:TIL that minecraft's creator went full alt right, and that makes me sad. First it was dilbert, and now Minecraft. All my childhood influences are awful people. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcircleje ... s_are_bad/

On the brightside, Mojang pretends he doesn't exist, so it's like a chik fil a situation. Great product, terrible (former)owner

Guh. I actually kinda liked the guy back when he was one of the people actively standing up against Microsoft's attempt to bring the walled-garden experience to Windows...of course, he sold out on that years ago, but this is even worse.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby solune » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:28 pm UTC

sardia wrote:TIL that minecraft's creator went full alt right, and that makes me sad. First it was dilbert, and now Minecraft. All my childhood influences are awful people. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcircleje ... s_are_bad/

On the brightside, Mojang pretends he doesn't exist, so it's like a chik fil a situation. Great product, terrible (former)owner


Up to now, I had no knowledge whatsoever about Notch's political thoughts. But I'm disapointed at what you bring up as good evidence that he's gone "full alt right". The only thing I see in that post is that he refused to obey an order given by someone who didn't wish him well.
Have you got better evidence ?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:34 pm UTC

solune wrote:The only thing I see in that post is that he refused to obey an order given by someone who didn't wish him well.

That's your take?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby solune » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:03 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
solune wrote:The only thing I see in that post is that he refused to obey an order given by someone who didn't wish him well.

That's your take?


From that post alone without any context or even a link to the rest of the thread provided ? Yes

From what I can see from his feed he does seem to match the definition of what people who use the term alt-right call alt-right. I'm just saying that when talking about anything related with gamer-gate, meaniehead or internet trolls, we've got to raise our standards of evidence.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:29 pm UTC

I didn't see any evidence that the guy wished him ill though. And Alt-righters don't usually tend to straight up condone Nazis from what I've seen, it's all about minimising and whataboutery and false equivalence. And calling anyone left of Reagan a Communist. Which is why just that one tweet screamed Alt-right to me.

Not disagreeing about the importance of evidence though. It was just the way you phrased your reaction that made my eyebrow increase in altitude.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby natraj » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:13 pm UTC

solune wrote:
Mutex wrote:
solune wrote:The only thing I see in that post is that he refused to obey an order given by someone who didn't wish him well.

That's your take?


From that post alone without any context or even a link to the rest of the thread provided ? Yes

From what I can see from his feed he does seem to match the definition of what people who use the term alt-right call alt-right. I'm just saying that when talking about anything related with gamer-gate, meaniehead or internet trolls, we've got to raise our standards of evidence.


it's odd that you clearly understand from this post what context is, but then immediately choose to entirely and wholly disregard it and presume that nobody else reading this fora could possibly understand it as well.

yes, in a complete vacuum, wherein zero of us live in the world and have any knowledge whatsoever of the social context we're currently, actively, living in, with the resurgence of nazis, and particularly the proliferation specifically and dedicatedly of nazis infiltrating specific subcultures, a tweet in isolation wherein someone responds that way to "can you just say nazis are bad, fullstop without qualifications" would MAYBE be like okay is there more context?

thankfully we are living in a world where we do have access to all that context, and likely most people here are perfectly capable of extrapolation as to exactly what it very likely means, in our current day when someone in certain contexts has a reluctance to disavow nazis. and if not, well, it takes approximately .05 seconds on notch's twitter to see that it is full of racist, transphobic nonsense with a side of antisemitic dogwhistling and spouting extreme right conspiracy theories like qanon.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ObsessoMom » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:35 pm UTC

Paul Manfort has been offered less than four years in prison. Scott Hechinger has an interesting Twitter thread on that, which begins:

For context on Manafort’s 47 months in prison, my client yesterday was offered 36-72 months in prison for stealing $100 worth of quarters from a residential laundry room.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby natraj » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:57 pm UTC

yeah i have had friends get longer than that for marijuana possession and for shoplifting honestly i want to burn the entire government to the ground
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:33 pm UTC

The judge couldn't have even been more clear that he thinks that fraud is just a part of being rich, and being rich shouldn't be a crime.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:24 pm UTC

On that subject,
One of Britain’s worst predatory paedophiles, who targeted, groomed and abused up to 200 Malaysian babies and children and shared images of his horrific crimes on the dark web ... admitted an unprecedented 71 offences, including rapes, against young children aged between six months and 12 years between 2006 and 2014. Judge Peter Rook QC on Monday ordered Huckle to serve a minimum term of 25 years ...
Matthew Falder, 29, a Cambridge graduate, admitted 137 offences against 46 victims, male and female, including blackmail, voyeurism, making indecent images of children and encouraging the rape of a child. ... Three judges at London's Court of Appeal agreed to reduce Falder's prison sentence to 25 years. His barrister Andrew Smith QC told the court the sentence was "manifestly excessive".


The loaf and the packet of ham? £3.

£3 / 122 days = 2.5 p per day

25 years / 71 offences = 128.6 days per offence = £3.16 per offence.
25 years / 200 victims = 45.7 days per victim = £1.12 per victim.
25 years / 137 offences = 66.7 days per offence = £1.64 per offence.
25 years / 46 victims = 198.5 days per victim = £4.88 per victim.

In case you were wondering what your child's innocence is worth to HM Gov't, it seems the answer is: "A fiver'll cover it."

Tony the Bliar's got £60,000,000. Imagine the fun he could get away with having.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:00 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
solune wrote:The only thing I see in that post is that he refused to obey an order given by someone who didn't wish him well.

That's your take?

https://mobile.twitter.com/notch?ref_sr ... r%5Eauthor
I was tempted to use a compilation of his offensive tweets, but looking at the source is good enough. It starts off ok, and then quickly degenerates. Usually it takes scouring through archives to find offensive 'Jokes'from ages ago. Not the case with this recent millionaire.
Yes, I should have used better citation, but it's not like notch was hiding it.

The judge thing is weird, like the justification he used is that sentencing guidelines are too strict (which is true in general of American Justice system). However his behavior in the trial looks much worse given the lenient sentencing. What are the odds he's a Trumper? Could just be casual bias towards rich people.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby freezeblade » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:06 pm UTC

"Could just be casual bias towards rich people."

Hammer, meet nail.

Classism is in full display when looking at lengths/severity of sentences given within the justice system.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby gd1 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:43 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:"Could just be casual bias towards rich people."

Hammer, meet nail.

Classism is in full display when looking at lengths/severity of sentences given within the justice system.


When I was younger I used to say that the United States was the only country on Earth with no corruption (maybe 6-7 years ago). Please don't break my illusions D:

Okay, tbf, Trump already did, but let's not atomize the powdered glass that remains?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:37 am UTC

1) the admin and bureaucracy in the US is extremely difficult to corrupt, as every intelligence agency knows. It's the leadership that's full of snakes. As they say, you bribe a crooked politician 10 ways, and an honest one a hundred.
2) the criminal justice system isnt corrupt in the traditional sense, in that money gets you what you want through the legal channels rather than illegal ones

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ObsessoMom » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:24 am UTC

(From Shakespeare's King Lear)

"Through tatter'd clothes small vices do appear:
Robes and furr'd gowns hide all. Plate sin with gold,
And the strong lance of justice hurtless breaks;
Arm it in rags, a pigmy's straw does pierce it."

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Felstaff » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:14 pm UTC

Duchess of Malfi, I.i wrote:Consid'ring duly that a prince's court
Is like a common fountain, whence should flow
Pure silver drops in general, but if't chance
Some cursed example poison't near the head,
Death and diseases through the whole land spread.
Away, you scullion! you rampallion! You fustilarian! I'll tickle your catastrophe.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:30 pm UTC

I've been to an ancient city that had a cistern in it, fed by a spring in the hills diverted along an aqueduct.

In the cistern were fish.

They asked us to guess why.

I guessed that they ate mosquito larvae and reduced disease outbreaks.

The official reason is that if anyone poisoned the spring those fish would die first and the people would know not to drink the water.

Our princes are telling us that the fish are fine.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Angua » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:30 am UTC

A 16 year old girl managed to get an abortion at 6 weeks in Alabama (which sounds by all rights to be a logistical nightmare in itself). The man who got her pregnant is now suing the clinic and makers of the pill for allowing her to have an abortion, and using the 'personhood of the embryo' to do this.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:21 pm UTC

Angua wrote:A 16 year old girl managed to get an abortion at 6 weeks in Alabama (which sounds by all rights to be a logistical nightmare in itself). The man who got her pregnant is now suing the clinic and makers of the pill for allowing her to have an abortion, and using the 'personhood of the embryo' to do this.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby pogrmman » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:48 pm UTC

addams wrote:
Angua wrote:A 16 year old girl managed to get an abortion at 6 weeks in Alabama (which sounds by all rights to be a logistical nightmare in itself). The man who got her pregnant is now suing the clinic and makers of the pill for allowing her to have an abortion, and using the 'personhood of the embryo' to do this.
This nation has lost its ever loving mind!

What. The. Actual. Fuck. I have so many questions.
Why the hell would an unemployed 19 year old WANT to keep a baby that he's going to have to pay child support for? Even if it is a sick power fantasy, he'd still be legally responsible for the child and have to pay to support it one way or another.
Why the hell would the judge allow the embryo no-longer-existing embryo to sue? That's super fucked up. I mean, the deceased can't sue AFAIK, and even though an embryo may be considered a person under Alabama law, it's surely deceased?
What about the rights of the mother (who is still a child!)? To me, it seems that you can't really get any more blatant that you don't really see women as people if you're supporting the "rights" of an entirely hypothetical child that may or may not have lived to birth over the rights of an actual, living child with her own dreams, hopes, and desires.
What. The. Actual. Fuck.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:01 pm UTC

It's fascism. Everything on the right makes more sense when you remember that they are fascists.

https://medium.com/nonzerosum/umberto-e ... 9cc1e9f317
Last edited by Thesh on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:10 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Dauric » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:04 am UTC

Dude, Warnings when you link to actual white supremacist websites man. I like to avoid having that garbage in my browsing history.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:11 am UTC

Sorry, fixed. I wasn't paying attention, and that was the first page that just had the definition.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby elasto » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:08 am UTC

Thesh wrote:It's fascism. Everything on the right makes more sense when you remember that they are fascists.

https://medium.com/nonzerosum/umberto-e ... 9cc1e9f317

Almost all of those points equally apply to the hard left though. Which makes sense because the hard left and the hard right are both inclined to authoritarianism.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby solune » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:18 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:Why the hell would an unemployed 19 year old WANT to keep a baby that he's going to have to pay child support for? Even if it is a sick power fantasy, he'd still be legally responsible for the child and have to pay to support it one way or another.


There's something that really creeps me out about your statement. I agree that a woman's body autonomy should prevail over other arguments, but that shouldn't negate the fact that a man may desire to become a father. Sure, he's poor, unemployed, and probably not good at parenting, but he's also a human being: it shouldn't be weird to want to have children.

There's also something really depressing about our society. Everyone assumes that, in a family court, even if:
* the mother doesn't want to take care of the child
* the father wants to take care of the child
* the father is the only adult of the two
then the judge would still leave the child with the mother.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby elasto » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:12 pm UTC

solune wrote:There's something that really creeps me out about your statement. I agree that a woman's body autonomy should prevail over other arguments, but that shouldn't negate the fact that a man may desire to become a father. Sure, he's poor, unemployed, and probably not good at parenting, but he's also a human being: it shouldn't be weird to want to have children.

Moreover, it dismisses out of hand the very real hurt and loss this man might be feeling.

As someone who likewise agrees the woman should be the only one deciding what happens with her body, I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first child and we needed a test to check if it had a serious health condition: We had had a preliminary test that returned positive, and there was a 1 in 40 chance the second test would return positive too - and if so I thought it likely my wife would choose to abort. You can bet I was feeling worry, and you can bet I would have felt a profound sense of loss had she done so.

So blame the lawmakers by all means (I don't think I should have been allowed to sue anyone had my wife chosen to abort), but, unless you know for sure he's just trolling, blaming the teenage would-be-father is probably a step too far.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:34 pm UTC

elasto wrote:
Thesh wrote:It's fascism. Everything on the right makes more sense when you remember that they are fascists.

https://medium.com/nonzerosum/umberto-e ... 9cc1e9f317

Almost all of those points equally apply to the hard left though. Which makes sense because the hard left and the hard right are both inclined to authoritarianism.

What??? How? Those things aren't leftism, which is explicitly egalitarian while fascism is explicitly anti-egalitarian. Authoritarianism is not all fascism is; fascism is a reactionary ideology that is specifically about restoring past glory through the reclaiming of traditions.

I'm guessing you are looking at Leninism and assuming that's the left. Lenin wasn't a socialist; crushing socialism (factory councils) was one of the first things he did. Authoritarianism is not compatible with socialism, and libertarianism isn't compatible with capitalism.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:43 pm UTC

I also heard that Lenin wasnt even from Scotland...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby elasto » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:43 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:What??? How? Those things aren't leftism, which is explicitly egalitarian while fascism is explicitly anti-egalitarian.

Why are you talking of leftism? I explicitly said the hard-left.

Rightism isn't authoritarian in nature any more than leftism is until you get to the extremes. In fact, one of the key flaws of the right is its overemphasis on individual freedom - eg. laissez-faire economics.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:01 pm UTC

Hard-left isn't leftism? Okay... Capitalism is a system of law that does little more than establish legal authority. Libertarianism is the belief that authority should not exist i.e. everyone has authority over themselves, while capitalism is the belief that we should give power to elites, i.e. economic elites have authority over everyone else.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:08 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I also heard that Lenin wasnt even from Scotland...


Literally, words have meaning, and socialism is a word. Socialism is synonymous with authoritarianisn to you because you only know capitallist newspeak, where every single word is boiled down to government or non-government and capitalism = non-government = good. The point of this language is only to make it impossible to discuss concepts like socialism.
Last edited by Thesh on Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:10 pm UTC

If you actually think it's because of "capitalist newspeak" that fucking Lenin, LENIN, is "wrongly" thought of as a leftwing extremist, my god dude, you are more deranged than I thought.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:14 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:If you actually think it's because of "capitalist newspeak" that fucking Lenin, LENIN, isn't a leftwing extremist, my god dude, you are more deranged than I thought.


Lenin was anti-Tsar. He was only anti-tsar. He was not a Marxist, and only ever misquoted Marx to justify his own elitist policies. So what is it, other than the label "socialist" that makes him a leftist? How did what he want differ from the right? How is what he fought for not just state capitalism?

Look, I'm not saying that Lenin is socialist only under newspeak, I'm saying that you are incapable of discussing these concepts because you don't have the language to do it.
Last edited by Thesh on Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:17 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.


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