The Darker Side of the News

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

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CorruptUser
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:01 pm UTC

If they are targetting the NRA because it's divisive, they wouldn't target ONLY the NRA. I'd assume they'd also get involved with Planned Parenthood, Greenpeace, etc.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:12 pm UTC

Could be that they have and we just haven't learned about it yet - or it could be that they've tried and were rebuffed by people who had the sense not to get involved with actual foreign influence campaigns when they already get plenty of money as it stands.

On which note, it looks like Bernie Sanders's chief campaign strategist may just have gone and got himself all mixed up with one Paul Manafort...
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:42 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:So... what could Russia actually do if they compromised the NRA enough that it was a Russian puppet? Do they expect to be able to indirectly control congress as a result of the lobbying?
How about having a corrupting influence with the armed and dangerous
Nut Jobs that think they are going to Stand Up to the U.S. Government?
Those Nut Jobs are legion and are easily influenced.

I know some of those FOX viewers.
(sigh..) They are friends. (shrug..)

Hey!
This stuff belongs in the Trump Thread.
It is best to keep this stuff together for easy reading and impromptu arguments.

Oh,...Good Grief!
commodorejohn wrote:Could be that they have and we just haven't learned about it yet - or it could be that they've tried and were rebuffed by people who had the sense not to get involved with actual foreign influence campaigns when they already get plenty of money as it stands.

On which note, it looks like Bernie Sanders's chief campaign strategist may just have gone and got himself all mixed up with one Paul Manafort...

Bernie's Chief Strategist was in touch with Manafort's shady Putin-connected pal right before joining Bernie's campaign... Uh-oh.
The international political strategists hang together, like Nurses, Teachers, other professions.

This 'Russer Thing', as Trump says is a Big Deal!
It is Not a "made up thing, an excuse for losing an election they Should have won."

Poor Bernie; If he's an asset, he is an unwitting and unwilling one.
He is too interested in what is good for the little guy to be willing.

He very well may have had an active Russian Asset working for him.
That is bad, all by its self. We gotta get The Money out of politics.

This, Children, is a wild ride.
I'm a little frightened.

We know the Russians own Trump and Co.
We know the Russians are 'in' our electric grids.

Scary.
But, I can't look away.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Coyne » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:43 am UTC

I can hear the calls now: "Lock Bernie up for 999 years, he's obviously guilty as sin! Accusations against Trump are, on the other hand, [brace yourself] complerely trumped up!!"
In all fairness...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:56 am UTC

ech,...It shows that the Russians have a Big operation.
For Trump to Win, it was required that we have division and discord.

For all we know, Russia planted that manager and managed him.
Poor Bernie. He must feel, really, bad. That also hurt Bernie.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:20 am UTC

Then again, not to jump to conclusions about Mr. Sanders, but...he was one of only four senators to vote against the Magnitsky act.

And, uh, one of two to vote against additional Russia sanctions last year...
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:22 am UTC

commodorejohn wrote:Then again, not to jump to conclusions about Mr. Sanders, but...he was one of only four senators to vote against the Magnitsky act.

And, uh, one of two to vote against additional Russia sanctions last year...
Really??
Citation, please.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:30 pm UTC

Here you go:

https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/42018
https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/60767

I like that he's apparently officially listed as Bernard "Bernie" Sanders in the voting record. Do you get to just choose your own quasi-official senatorial nickname?
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:05 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:Here you go:

https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/42018
https://votesmart.org/bill/votes/60767

I like that he's apparently officially listed as Bernard "Bernie" Sanders in the voting record. Do you get to just choose your own quasi-official senatorial nickname?
Why?
Why did he do that?
Esp. The Magnitsky Act.

(tisk...) It is one thing that says, "We live our values."
We had other things. We are losing them, one by one.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:12 pm UTC

Well, he did offer an excuse on the recent sanctions bill (it also included sanctions against Iran, which he was not in favor of,) but the Magnitsky act...? Yeah, that kinda casts things in a different light.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:40 pm UTC

Dirty Money sounds so Bad.
Trump is a Money Launderer.

That sounds like he has done the World a favor.

Everyone likes 'things' to be clean.
How can anyone argue against it?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Coyne » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:45 am UTC

addams wrote:Dirty Money sounds so Bad.
Trump is a Money Launderer.

That sounds like he has done the World a favor.

Everyone likes 'things' to be clean.
How can anyone argue against it?

The problem is not the laundering.
The problem is that, first, you must make a lot of money dirty.

Trust me, you don't want to know what goes into making money dirty
In all fairness...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:35 am UTC

Yes.
You are correct.
The details of impoverishing many and killing others, I do not want to discuss.

Still; The pedestrian American FOX viewers hear the words Laundry Money and are Not repulsed.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Coyne » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:56 pm UTC

addams wrote:Yes.
You are correct.
The details of impoverishing many and killing others, I do not want to discuss.

Still; The pedestrian American FOX viewers hear the words Laundry Money and are Not repulsed.

Well, as to that, it depends who was doing the laundering. Suppose for example that Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton where money laundering, what do you think Fox viewers would think about that?
In all fairness...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:19 pm UTC

Those folks have been through Pavlovian Conditioning.
If Hillary came in, cleaned their house and took them to the Doctor,
They would, still, tell themselves, "She's a Monster!"
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:31 pm UTC

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... ion-736248
After promising to have a vote on immigration in exchange for not forcing Republicans to vote on a bipartisan immigration bill (a discharge petition), GOP leaders reneged. This probably means that the House won't have to vote on sympathetic dreamers, immigrants etc etc until after the November election. What a coincidence.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:30 pm UTC

sardia wrote:https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/24/house-republicans-mccarthy-immigration-736248
After promising to have a vote on immigration in exchange for not forcing Republicans to vote on a bipartisan immigration bill (a discharge petition), GOP leaders reneged. This probably means that the House won't have to vote on sympathetic dreamers, immigrants etc etc until after the November election. What a coincidence.
It is Dark News, indeed.
They fear the E-Verify requirement would make it too difficult to find eligible workers.
They back Zero Tolerance.
And; They fear cutting off the flow of immigrant workers who are deprived of any Labor Law protections.

They are working Hard to keep everything as much The Same as they can.
They watch with blind eye while people are caged and deported yet overworked on farms, first.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Coyne » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:36 am UTC

sardia wrote:https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/24/house-republicans-mccarthy-immigration-736248
After promising to have a vote on immigration in exchange for not forcing Republicans to vote on a bipartisan immigration bill (a discharge petition), GOP leaders reneged. This probably means that the House won't have to vote on sympathetic dreamers, immigrants etc etc until after the November election. What a coincidence.

Oh, those silly, silly Democrats. They have turned the other cheek so many times we need to put a wire coil around them to generate power. When will they ever learn the Republicans always, always, always renege on promises like this?
In all fairness...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:54 am UTC

Coyne wrote:

The GOP reneged to another Republican.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Coyne » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Coyne wrote:

The GOP reneged to another Republican.

Oh. Well, maybe not the Democrats this time, but you will note the snideness wasn't about the Democrats. I have no idea why anyone agrees to any such deal with the GOP, in anticipation they will keep their word.
In all fairness...

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:52 pm UTC

Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:45 am UTC

Zamfir wrote:I suspect that a lot of these claims about super-targeted super effective manipulation are just bullshit. It's advertisement people selling themselves, in an area where performance is notoriously hard to measure, with the added buzz of New Technology. That's the bind that Facebook is in. They have spend years selling (and I suspect, overselling) the idea that they can manipulate people into buying sneakers and fly-swatters, using Big Data and Social Graphs and Artificial Intelligence and every other buzzword of the week. Now people say, huh, if you can do that, then you can also manipulate people into voting, right? And Facebook desperately doesn't want that, they want to be seen as innocuous. But they cannot strongly deny it, without also undermining their own core marketing spin. Same goes for political consultants, and that Cambridge Analytical in particular. That business is full of bullshit claims of magic tricks to make people vote the right way, if only you send money in their pockets. Did anyone read that last undercover interview with them? It reeks of salesman patter. "I find that works very well". There was an earlier story about them manipulating Thai elections, which seemed to consist mostly of building an hollywood-style operations room with big TV screens and leather seats, plus hints about how they also work for MI6. The company seems much more focused on manipulating rich clients with dreams of swinging elections, then on actually manipulating electorates.
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcrip ... =630443485
Reporter follows up on Cambridge Analytica's expanding web of Russian cyberwarfare. Now you could argue that this is crackpot level stuff, and there's a lot of coincidences here. It is possible the mob was already primed, and Russian cyberwarfare didn't matter. However, Bannon's sponsors believed in it, and so did the Russians, and they all acted accordingly.
She's been investigating connections between Brexit, the British far-right, the Trump campaign and possible connections between Brexit and Russia. The leaders of Brexit won the 2016 referendum to withdraw England from the European Union. Cadwalladr broke a key part of the Brexit campaign story about how the private data of tens of millions of Facebook users was harvested without their knowledge for the data analytics firm Cambridge Analytica. The data was used to create psychological profiles, which were then used to target people on Facebook with campaign ads and stories on behalf of the Brexit and Trump campaigns. Her source was Christopher Wylie, who had worked for Cambridge Analytica and came up with this plan, but then had regrets and became a whistleblower. He gave her a tranche of documents that laid out the secret workings behind Cambridge Analytica. This data company was funded by American hedge fund billionaire Robert Mercer, who was also one of the Trump campaign's major funders. Cadwalladr's reporting led to a government investigation that has already resulted in Facebook being fined by the British government agency that enforces the country's data protection laws.

Kogan is the person who worked at Cambridge University and harvested data from Facebook and the friends of the people whose data he harvested to use them in psychological profiling. And that data ended up being used by Cambridge Analytica and targeting Brexit it and the Trump campaign. Kogan was that he has an official position at Cambridge University, but he also held an official position at St. Petersburg University. And he was in receipt of Russian government money because he was running a research project there. And that's not to sort of make any accusations at all against Aleksandr Kogan or what his motives were but just the fact that he was in possession of this massive amounts of data and he was also traveling to St. Petersburg during the time that he was working on it. That was one sort of our first alarm bells. The second alarm bell was that Chris had this insane presentation that he pulled out which Cambridge Analytica had given to Lukoil, which is a massive Russian state oil company. And the presentation just didn't make any sense because supposedly it was the sort of advertising pitching Cambridge Analytica do - commercial work. But the presentation was all about influencing elections. Why would you be pitching a Russian oil company in how to manipulate voters? I mean, that just didn't make any sense. So we do see these, as I say, these kind of weird Russian connections. But this wondering about the data and wondering about Cambridge analysts because relationship to other entities has been at the heart of one of the many questions that have been in mine and others' head. And then last autumn, there was the stunning revelation that we found out that the CEO of Cambridge Analytica, Alexander Nix, had actually reached out to WikiLeaks. So it had got hold of Julian Assange. And this was in August, before the Trump election. And he offered to help distribute Hillary's stolen emails. So that was a kind of mind-blowing moment for me news-wise because the idea that, you know, we knew that WikiLeaks was consequential in the U.S. election, and we knew that Cambridge Analytica was, but we had no idea that there was a sort of channel of communication between them. So that was a big moment. And in the middle of that, I go back to Nigel Farage. So Nigel Farage - Mr. Brexit, remember - he earlier in the year had been caught coming out unawares out of the Ecuadorian Embassy. So he knew Julian Assange, and that had been a big moment as well of like - because nobody knew there was a relationship. We knew that Nigel Farage had a relationship to Donald Trump, but we didn't know that he had a relationship to Julian Assange as well. So that was - these weird ways and channels of communication between all these very influential entities in the U.S. presidential election and also in Brexit has been, you know, one of the sort of unraveling threads of this investigation.
There are now 40 investigators staffed to find out the full extent of the Facebook data.
It's hard to tell what's a real link, and what's just coincidence among a small group of connected politco junkies.
PS According to the Mueller investigation, this kind of marketing bullshit is surprisingly cheap to attempt. Like less than 10 million dollars.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zamfir » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:11 pm UTC

Now you could argue that this is crackpot level stuff, and there's a lot of coincidences here. It is possible the mob was already primed, and Russian cyberwarfare didn't matter. However, Bannon's sponsors believed in it, and so did the Russians, and they all acted accordingly.

Yeah, my comment was about the primed mob. My impression is that all this Russia/facebook/breitbart stuff was, at best, a straw that broke the camel's back. And both Mercer and Russia have lots of money - they don't have to believe very hard before they throw some pocket change at it.

Some people seem to latch on this stuff as a Big Explanation for Trump and Brexit. An insidious manipulation (using Tech!) that made the country do something that it would never do otherwise.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:33 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:Some people seem to latch on this stuff as a Big Explanation for Trump and Brexit. An insidious manipulation (using Tech!) that made the country do something that it would never do otherwise.

Yeah, I get that - there's a temptation to want to believe that if not for this, none of this would've happened, when in reality it's more the catalyst that caused a lot of nastiness that was already bubbling under the surface to flare up and explode. And of course there's always the age-old question of "is what you believe really what you believe, or what advertisers are trying to get you to believe, or is there even a difference?"

But: this is still concerning as all hell, and the more we learn about it the more serious it gets. It was obvious from the get-go that "social media" was nothing but a friendly face on top of a massive data-mining operation, but it seemed a little less worrisome when we only thought it was going to affect what Amazon was offering to sell us and not offering rogue governments an easy path to swaying policy in other nations.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:14 am UTC

oh,...Thoughtful reply.

Don't Believe Everything You Think.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:35 am UTC

addams wrote:Don't Believe Everything You Think.
I keep a list of notable quotes (and their sources) that are particularly wise. Things you say are disproportionally represented in that list.

Jose
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:11 am UTC

ucim wrote:
addams wrote:Don't Believe Everything You Think.
I keep a list of notable quotes (and their sources) that are particularly wise. Things you say are disproportionally represented in that list.

Jose


Yes, but did I first say it before or after I first heard or read it?

There's something good about having famously smart people support my observations, before or after I make them, but it's worrisome when that confirmation is followed by the thought: "Why the &&&& haven't we done anything about it yet?!?"

That's not to say we never learn from famous people, of course.

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

In an interview with Gilbert in Göring's jail cell during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials (18 April 1946)
(From https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring but you can just google "denounce the peacemakers" for other sites if you want them.)

That's one lesson "we" did learn, isn't it? We've probably been doing that for centuries.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:20 am UTC

oh,...Sable; I think you walked in the Wrong door.
(tisk..) You may end up in the Comfy Chair with Ice Cream.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:33 am UTC

Nobody expects the Sableaglition!

Was anybody expecting this?

The corporation that's been buying up all the entertainment franchises it can get has pretty much bought up Fox's collection thereof.

Insert discussion of which has the worse history of racism and/or sexism here. :roll:
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:25 pm UTC

It is Hot out there.
In Japan, sixty-five persons over sixty-five have died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQWs1I-8vpc

Gee...One degree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C10PaEk-8k
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:31 am UTC

Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:32 pm UTC

One link leads to another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DtOhe2LfQ

The inland valleys are full of smoke, here.
Here. on the U.S. West Coast. I've seen it.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 pm UTC

Coyne wrote:
sardia wrote:
Coyne wrote:

The GOP reneged to another Republican.

Oh. Well, maybe not the Democrats this time, but you will note the snideness wasn't about the Democrats. I have no idea why anyone agrees to any such deal with the GOP, in anticipation they will keep their word.


I dunno. I'm not sure why people continued to loan Trump money or do business with him, either. Ethical issues aside, sometimes you just gotta look at a situation and realize that it doesn't matter what they say, it's not going to work out.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:47 pm UTC

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ts/566309/
Two ways to see article. Either Trump's administration is in the pocket of Putin. Or the Justice system is now so fixated on illegal immigration, that they would trust the word of Russian agents that persecuted dissidents are actually murderous thugs.
Russia’s requests to Interpol for Red Notices—the closest instrument to an international arrest warrant—against Kremlin opponents are being met with increasing deference by the Department of Homeland Security.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:34 pm UTC

sardia wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/how-russia-persecutes-its-dissidents-using-us-courts/566309/
Two ways to see article. Either Trump's administration is in the pocket of Putin. Or the Justice system is now so fixated on illegal immigration, that they would trust the word of Russian agents that persecuted dissidents are actually murderous thugs.
Russia’s requests to Interpol for Red Notices—the closest instrument to an international arrest warrant—against Kremlin opponents are being met with increasing deference by the Department of Homeland Security.
Oh,...These are Dark Days, indeed.
DOJ have more and more put themselves in the position of doing Vladimir Putin’s dirty work for him by using his abusive Red Notices as the basis for arresting dissidents and businessmen who fled to the U.S. after they fell foul of Putin’s regime.”
If I read that correctly, this is more heartbreaking than the Children.
Alexey Kharis was a wealthy man.
All his assets in Russia have been taken.
Now, The U.S. is holding him and may deport him...to his death.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:07 pm UTC

sardia wrote:...Either Trump's administration is in the pocket of Putin....
Before pinning this on Trump, one would need to know the time frame. The first case in the article was six years ago.

Now, it could point to infiltration of our government by the Russians being an ongoing thing which started long ago (and perhaps paved the way for the Trump - Putin ticket). Or it could be that the cases being presented are not what they seemed. Dunno.

But while Trump is clearly Bad, not everything Bad is Trump.

Jose
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:15 pm UTC

Are you, Sure??
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:50 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
sardia wrote:...Either Trump's administration is in the pocket of Putin....
Before pinning this on Trump, one would need to know the time frame. The first case in the article was six years ago.
Now, it could point to infiltration of our government by the Russians being an ongoing thing which started long ago (and perhaps paved the way for the Trump - Putin ticket). Or it could be that the cases being presented are not what they seemed. Dunno.
But while Trump is clearly Bad, not everything Bad is Trump.
Jose

You have a point, there is likely cases of "Just following orders" going on. They get a red notice, it's perfectly filled out because the Russians wrote it by making up crimes. The only thing that would key you would be A it's a famous dissident, and B it came from Russia, asking for extradition to Russia.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:27 am UTC

Again I don't know the details of the cases in question (none of us do - we can only evaluate what we read and hear), but it comes down to whether Country A ought to support Country B's imposition of Country B's laws, when the alleged violator scoots off to Country A.

In this case, the US is Country A. But we are often Country B.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:55 am UTC

ucim wrote:Again I don't know the details of the cases in question (none of us do - we can only evaluate what we read and hear), but it comes down to whether Country A ought to support Country B's imposition of Country B's laws, when the alleged violator scoots off to Country A.

In this case, the US is Country A. But we are often Country B.

Jose

That's dumb, and you know it. For one thing, we don't have a great extradition treaty with Russia, so your example isn't valid. Also, you just read that Russia makes up crimes to harass dissidents, and in one example, almost got the US to extradite them to Russia. He's still fighting the deportion order.


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