West Virginia Water Contamination

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D-503
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West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby D-503 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:18 pm UTC

Last month, a chemical used for cleaning coal was leaked into the water supply for a large portion of West Virginia. This lead to 14 hospitalizations and left many residents without potable water. I didn't hear about the incident until I was at a restaurant yesterday and a waiter with family in West Virginia happened to mention it. The story didn't seem to get much coverage, so I thought I should share it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Elk_R ... ical_spill

Spambot5546
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:09 pm UTC

It definitely got coverage. It was even on The Daily Show.

But yeah, it's bullshit. You'd think someone would be like "Maybe we shouldn't keep our hazardous chemicals upstream from people".
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:15 pm UTC

Having lived in the Inland Empire California, I find the general lack of responsibility most entities are beholden to with respect to contaminating public water supplies to be pretty ridiculous
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Clix » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:28 pm UTC

One of the things that seems to be underplayed here is that a large amount of a chemical can be stored and used without anyone knowing much about it's effects on the environment or people.

Lunder also reviewed the scientific literature, and she said that there doesn't seem to be any publicly available studies on what the impacts of the chemical would be to either human beings or wildlife, or how long the chemical will persist in the environment. "There's little data with which to draw any conclusions on what effects might be," she said.

Source: West Virginia Chemical Spill Poses Unknown Threat to the Environment


Insert why regulation can be used for good rant here....
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CorruptUser
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:18 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Having lived in the Inland Empire California, I find the general lack of responsibility most entities are beholden to with respect to contaminating public water supplies to be pretty ridiculous


Indeed. I don't think the corporate laws work well enough. Or cynically, they work too well. A subsidiary should be considered the company when it comes to legal/financial responsibility, and in the event that a subsidiary is partially owned by several corps, all that own a significant amount should be responsible. How much is significant is up for debate, but I vote 20%.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:51 am UTC

Who represents The People?

Back in the Old Days, California had put Water Protection as a priority.
There was a lot of Bitching. Some of the regulations have been killed.

Those regulations function to allow people to have and use safe water.

The West Coast States Fail, sometimes.
The West Coast States Succeed, often.

My condolences to those people.
Sometimes the water was so bad,
people got sick from smelling it.

Getting that mess cleaned up is Job One.
How is clean up going?

http://wvwri.org
It is easy to get buried in data.

Is this why we need Government Agents?
I think we need Agents.

The Agents need a lot of support.
The Agents do not need secrets.
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:54 pm UTC

I imagine that, regardless of the precise legal details, when a company screws up this badly and publicly, they're gonna get nailed pretty hard for it.

Not storing chems upstream from people is actually pretty hard, though. There's a LOT of waterways, and people pretty much tend to live near the base of rivers(and along them). Most major leaks are going to end up hitting water somehow...it's all interconnected enough to be a major problem. Better filtration capability and/or a better notification system would likely be more practical precautions.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby sardia » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:13 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:I imagine that, regardless of the precise legal details, when a company screws up this badly and publicly, they're gonna get nailed pretty hard for it.

Not storing chems upstream from people is actually pretty hard, though. There's a LOT of waterways, and people pretty much tend to live near the base of rivers(and along them). Most major leaks are going to end up hitting water somehow...it's all interconnected enough to be a major problem. Better filtration capability and/or a better notification system would likely be more practical precautions.

Water treatment plants deal with organisms and large particulate matter. Water soluble chemicals that may or may not be toxic? That's a doozy and almost impossible to filter out without costing tons of money with almost no gain.. The best we can do is to prevent as many leaks as possible, and require a strict regime of inspection, maintenance, notification of failure. All this will cost money, which will scream at any hit to the bottom line. They rather pay for water bottles and play the odds that the lawsuits are cheaper than actually preventing the problem in the first place.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:32 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:I imagine that, regardless of the precise legal details, when a company screws up this badly and publicly, they're gonna get nailed pretty hard for it.

Not storing chems upstream from people is actually pretty hard, though. There's a LOT of waterways, and people pretty much tend to live near the base of rivers(and along them). Most major leaks are going to end up hitting water somehow...it's all interconnected enough to be a major problem. Better filtration capability and/or a better notification system would likely be more practical precautions.

Water treatment plants deal with organisms and large particulate matter. Water soluble chemicals that may or may not be toxic? That's a doozy and almost impossible to filter out without costing tons of money with almost no gain.. The best we can do is to prevent as many leaks as possible, and require a strict regime of inspection, maintenance, notification of failure. All this will cost money, which will scream at any hit to the bottom line. They rather pay for water bottles and play the odds that the lawsuits are cheaper than actually preventing the problem in the first place.


Well, they had a carbon filtration system, they just overwelmed it. I'm not familiar with the precise details of the leak, but spillover tanks also seem like a potential line of defense, but, as you say, it costs money.

I note that at a certain point, penalties may no longer have the desired effect. If something is large enough to force a plant closure, the worker involved is likely going to lose his job if he blows the whistle, so he has something of a motivation to try desperately to fix it while keeping it under wraps, even if odds of success are small. If large enough to kill the company, well, same, but the disincentives apply to EVERYONE.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:42 pm UTC

Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Chen » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:07 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?


Why would any executive ever do that?

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby nitePhyyre » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:36 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Honestly? The fact the the corporate veil isn't automatically pierced in criminal affairs is baffling. Coupling it with maximum penalties in a fine is utter lunacy.

Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Why would any executive ever do that?
Because the alternative is not being allowed to operate their business?
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby morriswalters » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:08 pm UTC

It could have been worse. And more than likely it will be somewhere at some point. Every place drains to a river sooner or later. You can sue for damages if they have anything to sue for. We watched the remains of the spill blow by where I'm at. Dilution took care of it. In 1982 a company blew up 2 miles of streets by dumping a lot of hexane into the sewers in Louisville. Very expensive, just lucky no one died.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Chen » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:29 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:Honestly? The fact the the corporate veil isn't automatically pierced in criminal affairs is baffling. Coupling it with maximum penalties in a fine is utter lunacy.


The maximum penalty thing is stupid. It should be ok to completely bankrupt the company if the fine is high enough to pay for whatever damages the company caused. I'm curious as to why we'd only blame the executives though. If you're going to pierce the corporate veil, everyone involved should be penalized. It's basically why I objected to why any executive would do this. If you want to go after people within the corporation for it, there are probably a ton of managers who are FAR more responsible for it than say the CEO.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:35 pm UTC

When Worldcom and all the others collapsed at the dawn of the millennium, virtually every person who was 'responsible' had been more or less coerced into it by people up the chain. Records were destroyed or intentionally not created, so the executives could keep themselves out of the room when the shit hit the fan. That's why now with SOX, the executives have to sign everything so that 'gee I didn't know about nothing' isn't a defense.

I don't think SOX goes far enough in some cases. Golden parachutes should not be allowed; if a company goes bankrupt, any incomes paid out in the previous years should still be considered company assets. That is, for example, any pay for the last 3 years above $400,000k/yr is up for grabs by the bankruptcy court. You shouldn't be able to raid a company and walk away.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:08 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:I imagine that, regardless of the precise legal details, when a company screws up this badly and publicly, they're gonna get nailed pretty hard for it.

Not storing chems upstream from people is actually pretty hard, though. There's a LOT of waterways, and people pretty much tend to live near the base of rivers(and along them). Most major leaks are going to end up hitting water somehow...it's all interconnected enough to be a major problem. Better filtration capability and/or a better notification system would likely be more practical precautions.

Water treatment plants deal with organisms and large particulate matter. Water soluble chemicals that may or may not be toxic? That's a doozy and almost impossible to filter out without costing tons of money with almost no gain.. The best we can do is to prevent as many leaks as possible, and require a strict regime of inspection, maintenance, notification of failure. All this will cost money, which will scream at any hit to the bottom line. They rather pay for water bottles and play the odds that the lawsuits are cheaper than actually preventing the problem in the first place.

Prevention is worth a pound of cure.

West Virginia has a terrible reputation.
Well? It does.

What did you hear about West Virginia?
It was legendary!

The people were treated as disposable.
Is this an honest mistake or evidence that things are the same;

Only different.
Who wants to live in West Virginia?!

It's beautiful there.
Don't drink the water.

Like going to Mexico?
Only cold?

What kind of a Nation has this shit going on in the 21st Century?
I thought you people were living in the Future!

You are?
The Americans are not?

Huh?
I can't think about that.
West Virginia is far, far away.

Did you know we have chemicals that cause death in One Part per Billion?
That is a very low concentration.

It's like Homeopathy!
It is such a small amount.

If there is one gallon spilled,
The entire area is suspect for the half life of the thing.

It is a good idea to stay out of some of those restricted areas.
If you can smell it. It's too late.

What do you know about the chemical that was Released in Virgina?
It is used to wash Coal.

What is it?
How does it break down?

How long before it is normal hydrocarbons and assorted salts?
Those poor people.

Has the sense of peace and security of those West Virginia people been assaulted?
Do they wonder? Everytime they turn on the water; Do they wonder?

Are they playing a game of Chemistry Catch-Up?
If you lived there, would you have a diagram of that molecule on the Kitchen wall?

If you lived there, would you be reading about chemistry?
That kind! What is this thing? How does it degrade?

Virginia people may say, "Fuck it. I am going for a drive."
Virgina people may say, "I want to live someplace with an Environmental Protection Agency."

They can swap out their houses for the houses of Tea Baggers moving to West Virgina.

We want everyone to be happy.
I do.

The Baggers don't want the Government meddling in shit..
That is fine. They can live where there is very little government oversight.

While they are there they can do away with what little there is.
West Virginia! A Baggers paradise.

No one takes their Freedoms! Baggers to do as They Please!

I think the people moving is a good idea.
The people coming out of West Virginia may be in favor of Oversight.
And; Then again; Maybe, Not.

Is it a darned inconvenience?
But, no big deal?

Like molasses?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Molasses_Disaster
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Tyndmyr » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:03 am UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:
Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Why would any executive ever do that?
Because the alternative is not being allowed to operate their business?


Nah, the alternative is having assets overseas in jurisdictions where they can't be touched.

I might be slightly more pessimistic than you, but I observe that before the creation of the modern corporation, giant industry had already started to be a thing, and it was not altogether pretty. People are people. Hell, the legal protections(for both sides) help prevent conflicts being resolved by violence. I mean, yeah, this situation is shitty, but imagine how much worse it'd be if both sides were trying to solve it by shooting the other guys.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:02 am UTC

Shooting the other guy is not a nice thing to do.
Poisoning people is not nice, either.

The people that were at risk and the people that made the decisions were two very separate groups.
You are correct about that. Different enough to shoot at one another? I don't think so.

There is no target.
Where are the Major Stock Holders?
Where are the executives?

Where is the Hazardous Waste Spill?
I bet they are somewhere Not There.

I could be wrong.
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/watercrisis/201402140114
Under the bill, the DEP would write tank safety standards and owners of tanks would have to obtain new permits from the agency and meet those safety standards. As currently written, though, broad categories of tanks -- including those at coal-mining operations and natural gas production sites -- are exempt from the permit requirements and safety standards.

So, Bazar.

ok. They are thinking of lifting the exemptions from Coal Mining operations?
That is a good idea. What do you think?

This is another cost of Coal.
This is a high price to pay for cheap power.

In the back of my mind the pros and cons of Nuclear readjust.
Of course, Having the Japanese with a catastrophic assault to structure and the following environmental concerns is very different from having West Virginia build, run and maintain a large and complicated facility.

West Virginia is having a hard time with the concept of 'Tank'.
Poor West Virginia.

If West Virginia was not the brunt of regional jokes, before.
It will be, now.

Poor West Virginia.
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sardia
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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby sardia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:44 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:
Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Why would any executive ever do that?
Because the alternative is not being allowed to operate their business?


Nah, the alternative is having assets overseas in jurisdictions where they can't be touched.

I might be slightly more pessimistic than you, but I observe that before the creation of the modern corporation, giant industry had already started to be a thing, and it was not altogether pretty. People are people. Hell, the legal protections(for both sides) help prevent conflicts being resolved by violence. I mean, yeah, this situation is shitty, but imagine how much worse it'd be if both sides were trying to solve it by shooting the other guys.

Forcing corporations to have monetary reserves against some event isn't hard, it's just unpopular. Governments are all desperate for jobs, and they poach jobs from neighboring states, not to mention countries. So the real issue is how to get governments to not race each other to the bottom. Maybe have governments form some union where corporations have to play along or get booted from the market. We know it's possible, China does it all the time.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:12 am UTC

sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:
Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Why would any executive ever do that?
Because the alternative is not being allowed to operate their business?


Nah, the alternative is having assets overseas in jurisdictions where they can't be touched.

I might be slightly more pessimistic than you, but I observe that before the creation of the modern corporation, giant industry had already started to be a thing, and it was not altogether pretty. People are people. Hell, the legal protections(for both sides) help prevent conflicts being resolved by violence. I mean, yeah, this situation is shitty, but imagine how much worse it'd be if both sides were trying to solve it by shooting the other guys.

Forcing corporations to have monetary reserves against some event isn't hard, it's just unpopular. Governments are all desperate for jobs, and they poach jobs from neighboring states, not to mention countries. So the real issue is how to get governments to not race each other to the bottom. Maybe have governments form some union where corporations have to play along or get booted from the market. We know it's possible, China does it all the time.

The EU does, too.
I don't know exactly what they do.

They do not allow this sort of thing to happen in the 21st Century.
Do they?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11492387
Five years ago they did.

It is Not a race to the bottom.
They had a Red Mud spill that year.
We had the BP spill in the Gulf that year.

We are Big.
We have big spills.

It seems our national priorities are not correctly positioned.
Cross your fingers for The West Coast.

Years and years of work are paying off.
There is a popular movement among The Viewing Public
to kill and gut environmental regulations.

Those regulations have Worked!
Please, don't kill them!

Besides; The nerdy types like to have jobs, too.
Understanding, monitoring and explaining those regulations
are good jobs for obsessive/compulsive nerdy types.
Those jobs are Important. We need clean water.

It's good for flowers and other living things.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Tyndmyr » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:50 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:
Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Why would any executive ever do that?
Because the alternative is not being allowed to operate their business?


Nah, the alternative is having assets overseas in jurisdictions where they can't be touched.

I might be slightly more pessimistic than you, but I observe that before the creation of the modern corporation, giant industry had already started to be a thing, and it was not altogether pretty. People are people. Hell, the legal protections(for both sides) help prevent conflicts being resolved by violence. I mean, yeah, this situation is shitty, but imagine how much worse it'd be if both sides were trying to solve it by shooting the other guys.

Forcing corporations to have monetary reserves against some event isn't hard, it's just unpopular. Governments are all desperate for jobs, and they poach jobs from neighboring states, not to mention countries. So the real issue is how to get governments to not race each other to the bottom. Maybe have governments form some union where corporations have to play along or get booted from the market. We know it's possible, China does it all the time.


That is a different topic entirely from removing liability constraints.

That said, I still don't think that we should look to China as our model for avoiding pollution and such.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:19 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
sardia wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:
Chen wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Can the municipalities require all executives to sign personally? That is, if someone fucks up, the executives' personal assets can be seized, not just the company or the subsidiary?
Why would any executive ever do that?
Because the alternative is not being allowed to operate their business?


Nah, the alternative is having assets overseas in jurisdictions where they can't be touched.

I might be slightly more pessimistic than you, but I observe that before the creation of the modern corporation, giant industry had already started to be a thing, and it was not altogether pretty. People are people. Hell, the legal protections(for both sides) help prevent conflicts being resolved by violence. I mean, yeah, this situation is shitty, but imagine how much worse it'd be if both sides were trying to solve it by shooting the other guys.

Forcing corporations to have monetary reserves against some event isn't hard, it's just unpopular. Governments are all desperate for jobs, and they poach jobs from neighboring states, not to mention countries. So the real issue is how to get governments to not race each other to the bottom. Maybe have governments form some union where corporations have to play along or get booted from the market. We know it's possible, China does it all the time.


That is a different topic entirely from removing liability constraints.

That said, I still don't think that we should look to China as our model for avoiding pollution and such.

OK. Who should we look to?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:50 pm UTC

addams wrote:OK. Who should we look to?


If anyone, Europe. Some of the countries there have done particularly well on some fronts. That said, the US is pretty good statistically with workplace accidents in general....better than the EU in total. We just happen to be pretty big, so we have more newsworthy events than they do.

So, all in all, perhaps the rest of the world should be emulating what we do...with regards to safety, anyway. Maybe not so much with regards to media.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:51 am UTC

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... l-science/

The Media?
They do change the pages fast.
Don't they?

Who ever 'They' are.
The US is a large territory.
The part of the US that is used for extraction and use of coal and oil is At Risk.

Who ever we need to be looking to,
We should start looking that way.

I have not read regulations nor been On Site in years.
Besides! That stuff requires specialists! In Toxicity!

That coal ash is Special.
This is xicd. Someone should be able to look at Toxicity and Radioactivity.

Compare, Coal Ash to Reactor Waste.
I know; We all have a 'knee jerk' reactions to nuclear reactions.

From what little I have been reading,
The disaster in Japan, is less toxic than the disasters in the US during the early 21st Century.

What? Is the US skating along on use of Media and PR firms?
There is the PR image and there is the Ugly Truth? Two very different things?

Why has the Media left the Water in W. Virginia so far behind?
I had expected to be able to find and read extensive and sometimes boring reports on the internet.
I am not finding That easy to do. You?

Of course, it will clean up.
That sluge is radioactive.

Do The People know that?
Is it a good idea to tell them?

If there is nothing except worry to be done about it...
Why make people worry?

Rays of Sunlight are Rays that will burn skin and cause missteps in genetic pathways.
We don't want people to worry about Sunlight. Do we? (maybe, a little)
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:48 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
addams wrote:OK. Who should we look to?


If anyone, Europe.


You do realize that the unofficial European (well, Italian) policy of toxic waste disposal is to dump it in the Gulf of Aden, right? (Because dumping it in the Mediterranean is almost literally shitting where you eat.) And that the result is that the fish near Somalia died off, causing the fishermen to find alternate means of livelihood, AKA piracy?

I sincerely hope Europe is not the best model for waste management.

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Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:21 pm UTC

ok.


Really?
The Italians deal with their waste by dumping it in The Sea?
I knew they Used To.

The stories I heard about Venice…You heard, too. (right?)
But…but…I am almost certain they don't do that, much, anymore.

Do you have a Citation?
I think, the other EU States would get snarky.

If the Italians, really, did that,
There are other States that might care.

I Know! States can't care.
Individual Agents of those States can care.

Sometimes they act together.
Like that Group Poke-E-Man game?

I am not sure what your point is.
What is your Point?

Don't look to Europe?
They do it More Wrong than we do??

We can 'Slap ourselves on the back'; a little.
The US helped develop Bullet Proof, Zero Energy Sewage Disposal.

It is a beautiful thing,
How does Venice deal with Sewage Disposal?

They Still Shit in The Water?
In 2014??

(Fuck. If that's true, Things are worse that I thought)

Hey! uummm.
It seems there is some Truth to what you wrote.
http://www.venipedia.org/wiki/index.php ... e_disposal
A central sewage treatment plant was built in Porto Marghera in the 1980s, but it is far removed from the main center of the city of Venice. Sewage is removed and treated there when possible, but some sewage continues to enter directly into the canals. Venice has 140 small biological plants installed throughout the city for waste treatment, and more than 6,000 septic tanks.[4] Private residences and businesses such as hotels are required to have their own septic tanks in Venice to help alleviate some of the problems caused by sewage, but the sheer number of people and amount of sewage plus the outdated sewage systems have been causing a variety of problems in Venice.

Hey! uumm.
When we get a City that is both Older than Time its self;
And; That City is also an InterNational Treasure,

Then?? That Then is Not Now!
I know all of that might seem like flimsy excuses to you.

Keeping up with the Jones' is not our collective goal. Is it?
What kind of people are we?

Keeping up with the Jones' is hard work.
Not if the Jones' are a bunch of Filthy LowLifes.

Is that The Game?
Where is The Goal?

Be Italy?? OK!
We will Never Succeed.

1. We get a copy of Italy's Environmental Regulations.
2. Let Google Translates have a go at the Document.
3. Enforce That Bad Boy!
4. Stand Back and Watch the Fun.

Half the fun is in The Journey.
Watching people mess with each other…..

What part of The Journey is That??
Sometimes people make honest mistakes.

When some Guy walks in and wants a 200 thousand gallon tank;
We might want to look at the original equation.

Back On Topic.
The American People no longer have the Protection of their State?

When I listen to Americans they often tell me,
"We Hate the State! And; The State Hates us!"

Those are the Patriotic ones.
Are you like that in Real Life?

Now; You tell me that not only are we Fucking It Up.
Europe is even More Fucked, than we are??

Really? More Fucked than us……

How fucked are we?

We are Huge!
No Coal Mines in my BackYard.
Yours?

I know the US is a land with Sweet Clean water bubbling out of the Ground.
That water comes in both flavors: Hot and Cold.

What is Wrong with those West Virginia people.
Why no news coming out of West Virginia?

If you lived where the water smells sweet, kind of, like Licorice;
Would you, maybe, think about moving?

What is the Housing Bubble doing in West Virginia?
Hey! Look! West Ginny people are still talking about it.
http://www.wsaz.com/news/wvnews/headlin ... 84111.html

Just a little Chem Spill.
Did you ever listen to a Benzine Ring lecture?

Yeah? How well did you understand it?
I like Chemistry; When someone else does most of it!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10157
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:01 pm UTC

addams wrote:Do you have a Citation?
I think, the other EU States would get snarky.

If the Italians, really, did that,
There are other States that might care.


Mafia dumping waste (only got investigated because they were dumping in Italy, so they started dumping in Somalia instead)
Dutch company Trafigura, which dumped in Western Africa

We know about this stuff. What about the stuff we don't know about?

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: West Virginia Water Contamination

Postby addams » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:49 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
addams wrote:Do you have a Citation?
I think, the other EU States would get snarky.

If the Italians, really, did that,
There are other States that might care.


Mafia dumping waste (only got investigated because they were dumping in Italy, so they started dumping in Somalia instead)
Dutch company Trafigura, which dumped in Western Africa

We know about this stuff. What about the stuff we don't know about?

Yes. We know about this stuff.
What is it we don't know?

Do you know about that stuff in West Ginny?
Is that the regular run of the mill, One Part per Million, stuff?

Or; Is that the new kid on the block, One Part per Billion, stuff?
Some of that stuff showed up on the scene about the same time the Band did. (right?)

How much of the One Part per Million does it take for Normal people to smell it?
Does it make you stop and think? Me, too.

It's an aromatic. Right?
How much Rose Oil does it take to make a aqueous solution smell?

How large is the effected area?
What are those people going to do?

What would we be typing if this were going on in ohhh say, Italy?

I know we have, "Bad Guys' dumping toxic waste, illegally, 'Here' and is seems they have some of that 'There'.
What happened in West Virginia was not illegal. Right?

No one cares, much? Get things back to Normal as fast as possible?
How Normal?

!What Was That Stuff!
Where are the Chemists???

A precocious child can explain simple Benzine Rings.
What about all that Coal Ash Sludge?

Is that shit, really, highly radio active? (fuck)
Nuclear scientists can explain it.
Some, a lot, disagree.

Does it become less radioactive faster?
Is it a natural product of our planet?
so, It's not a big deal?

What?
You are correct;
What the Italians do is as important to me as what the West Virginians do.

The West Virginians are on the other side of the Great Divide.
No matter what they do to their water. It can't fuck up my water. (can it?)

No wonder people are a little Paranoid.
EveryThing including each other is out to Get Them.

EDIT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafigura# ... od_scandal
That is some interesting reading.
So complicated.

Who knows The Mind of God?
Who knows The Mind of The Business Major?

I Know! It is difficult to Balance the Equations.
They can't, just, balance the equations.

At the end of the day; They have to be in The Black.
They have a hard major.

They forget what the numbers mean, sometimes.
I bet they do. Nearly, everyone does.

On some level I know getting the Decision Makers and forcing them to live with the Toxins is not a good idea.
It is certainly a tempting idea.

Spoiler:
It is **waggling it eye butt hairs at me** **Are those brows?**
Is..That…Your..Face …..?

What was Your Mama drinking?

***************************************************************************************************
March 26th. Jan 9th to March 26th.
That looked serous to me.
The people that live there don't seem to think it is serous.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Business/201403260249
"We want growth, jobs and prosperity in this region," Rady said about the developments of project Ascent.


Company President Paul Rady told a crowd of about 70 people at the Marcellus to Manufacturing Conference going on Wednesday and today at the Charleston Civic Center that Marcellus Shale is "an awakening giant."


Seventy People!!
In the entire area there were seventy people that were interested?
Seventy People!


http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania ... e-cracker/
“Cracker” is industry lingo for a plant that takes oil and gas and breaks them up into smaller molecules. An ethane cracker creates ethylene, a compound used in the manufacture of plastic. There’s much more ethane in Appalachia these days thanks to controversial drilling techniques known colloquially as “fracking.”


If they don't think it is important, who am I to worry about them?
It could be framed as a Public Health issue.
In a Nation with a Public Health system it could be.

It could be framed as a National Welfare issue.
Is the use of water in W. Ginny being forfeited?
Is the land being poisoned for generations to come?

Why are chemical companies forging ahead?
Why is the Governor flanking executives of chemical companies at public meetings?

Wait..Wait..The System is corrupt.
The governor must get funds to dazzle the media, so the media will dazzle The People for him. right?
The funds come from the chemical companies.

How many Billions?
Do you think our monetary language has experienced inflation?
In 1986 the US debt was 3.5 million dollars.

The entire US budget was less than this big company is blowing through.
Billions? Did you notice how the numbers were translated?

[The American Chemistry Council's] model pre­dicts a cracker would cre­ate 2,396 “direct” jobs, even though just 400 to 600 peo­ple would be employed at the Shell plant itself. The study antic­i­pates 8,194 indi­rect new jobs. The remain­ing 6,951 jobs would come from the “rip­ple effect” of increased eco­nomic activ­ity dri­ven by the peo­ple who move into the Beaver County area.

The people are ok with this?
Why?

Has generations of bad water, hard work and broken promises done something to the people?
I am an outsider. I can't understand. I may be over reacting.

How can they forget and move on so fast?
No deaths? Is that why?

(shrug) Maybe that stuff is as good as it smells.
I like the smell of Licorice.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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