SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

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Tyndmyr
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:37 pm UTC

As for income being fungible, it certainly is...but that actually eases monitoring. You don't have to ensure those exact dollars are spent taking care of the kids, you merely have to ensure that money is being spent to care for them. If the benefit does not accurately reflect typical expenditures, then perhaps revisiting the benefit is warranted. If the kids are being neglected, well...pull the kids. I don't think this is that crazy or controversial...until you get to the monitoring to ensure kids are taken care of.

Our society considers monitoring appropriate for all sorts of things, but the instant it's checking on parents taking care of kids, everyone gets all huffy.

LaserGuy wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:If you flatten income enough between the absolute top and bottom, then you decrease potential earning differences. If everyone is gonna get 50k regardless of how little skills I gather, does this not reduce economic motivation to go to college?


I think Australia has already solved this problem. Their minimum wage for adults is $14.50 USD and they have slightly higher participation rates than the US in tertiary education, despite professionals being paid less (or taxed more, at least), and lower unemployment, despite much higher minimum wages.


Odd, I'm seeing the US as being higher per the world bank stats.

And Sweden has no minimum wage at all, and seems to be doing pretty fine in terms of wages, education, etc. They're hardly a right-wing state grinding everyone into poverty... it would seem that a minimum wage law is hardly the only way to arrive at a healthy economy OR to flatten income.

CorruptUser wrote:Here's one link.

Call me a cynical paranoid, but I honestly think that part of the fundamentalist opposition towards a welfare system that actually works and improves the lives of the citizens, is that in such a scenario, people won't need to rely on organized religion. If you are poor and welfare isn't available, there is The Church to rely upon.


Sure. Charity is a good thing, but religious charity can sometimes come with strings attached. A lot of charity, including religious charity is a very good thing...but as you get into the more obscure and extreme religious branches, charity, like everything else, can become twisted.
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby sardia » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:41 pm UTC

Isn't Sweden a socialist paradise by US standards? Having low minimum wage doesn't hurt much when you have a solid safety net supporting you. Like I said, minimum wage increases here are a square peg in a round hole. It's not great, but it's politically probable.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Heisenberg » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:14 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Call me a cynical paranoid, but I honestly think that part of the fundamentalist opposition towards a welfare system that actually works and improves the lives of the citizens, is that in such a scenario, people won't need to rely on organized religion. If you are poor and welfare isn't available, there is The Church to rely upon.

You're no more cynical and paranoid than my friend the government worker who believes we should ban private charity to keep them from interfering with his centralized welfare state.

That's pretty cynical and paranoid. Especially in the area of charity, it's best to assume that these folks' first priority is to help others. Deviate from that and you get into talk radio conspiracy theory territory.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:21 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Isn't Sweden a socialist paradise by US standards? Having low minimum wage doesn't hurt much when you have a solid safety net supporting you. Like I said, minimum wage increases here are a square peg in a round hole. It's not great, but it's politically probable.


Among the crowd that really likes the term "socialist", yes, that's a common description. I don't know that I'd use it. Socialism is a label that has been applied to so much it risks becoming entirely undescriptive and little more than an epithet. I prefer to describe situations in more concrete terms.

I agree that it's a political hot potato at the moment. I'm not *entirely* sure why, though. I hear a great deal about protests. I have yet to actually see a protest in person. I have to drive by rather a lot of fast food joints on a daily basis. When things happened, like Chick-fil-a giving the finger to the gays, yeah, I saw that. Was a real thing. Occupy folks, also a real thing. This...I have no doubt that someone, somewhere, is protesting, but it does not actually feel like a nationwide movement. Maybe the result of a slow news cycle? I mean, Fox is talking about if Santa Claus is white, for god's sake...the news fodder has got to be thin.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:49 pm UTC

Actually, living so close to the North Pole would select for slightly darker skin, as snow reflects a large amount of sunlight (you can get sunburns more easily from snow than at the beach, if not covered). So Santa probably has a similar skin tone as the Inuit and Samoyed; ergo, not White.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Ormurinn » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:07 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
sardia wrote:Isn't Sweden a socialist paradise by US standards? Having low minimum wage doesn't hurt much when you have a solid safety net supporting you. Like I said, minimum wage increases here are a square peg in a round hole. It's not great, but it's politically probable.


Among the crowd that really likes the term "socialist", yes, that's a common description. I don't know that I'd use it. Socialism is a label that has been applied to so much it risks becoming entirely undescriptive and little more than an epithet. I prefer to describe situations in more concrete terms.


I hear you - the cappucino left in the U.K often pontificate on how great the nordic model is - and I agree with them as a libertarian.

Why yes, I would like to see people making a contribution to their healthcare in proportion to their use of it! Yes, eliminating the minimum wage is the way to go! Yes we should be unashamedly pro-business.

Denmark for instance is a hell of a lot more libertarian than the U.K, and Norway is a classical liberal paradise.

All the nordics seem to have dodged the trap a lot of other nations fell into in the early 20th century of having their pro-labour organisations hijacked by anti-business/collectivist groups. A lot of people don't realise that the first labour unions campaigned vociferously for laissez faire and free trade.
"Progress" - Technological advances masking societal decay.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:04 pm UTC

Going to need a citation needed. Quite sure the unions pretty much campaigned for things like safety regulations, end of the gold standard, worker's comp, child labor laws, etc. Also institutional racism and xenophobia, but everything has a darker side. While I don't think they were originally collectivist, I highly doubt they were really pro laissez faire.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby sardia » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:02 am UTC

Question, given 2 states that share a border, and one raises the minimum wage. What should happen to employment at the minimum wage businesses?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/magaz ... f=business
Answer, nothing. Fast food business is a crappy boring job, it's like farm work, but greasier in a way. All that ended up happening was worker turnover decreased. Anyway, this has all the usual caveats of any experiment, so take everything with a grain of salt, but it is possible to raise wages without decreasing employment.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:15 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Question, given 2 states that share a border, and one raises the minimum wage. What should happen to employment at the minimum wage businesses?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/magaz ... f=business
Answer, nothing. Fast food business is a crappy boring job, it's like farm work, but greasier in a way. All that ended up happening was worker turnover decreased. Anyway, this has all the usual caveats of any experiment, so take everything with a grain of salt, but it is possible to raise wages without decreasing employment.


This is an expected result where minimum legal wages are below real wages. Here in MD, even McDonalds workers are not making 7.50. If you're in a $9 an hour job, the effect of the wage going from $7.50 to $8.50 is not going to have a direct effect on you. If it's in an area where essentially nobody is below $9/hr, then yes, you would expect no effect.

That said, "this law will have no effect" is not much of a selling point.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby addams » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:52 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
sardia wrote:Question, given 2 states that share a border, and one raises the minimum wage. What should happen to employment at the minimum wage businesses?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/magaz ... f=business
Answer, nothing. Fast food business is a crappy boring job, it's like farm work, but greasier in a way. All that ended up happening was worker turnover decreased. Anyway, this has all the usual caveats of any experiment, so take everything with a grain of salt, but it is possible to raise wages without decreasing employment.


This is an expected result where minimum legal wages are below real wages. Here in MD, even McDonalds workers are not making 7.50. If you're in a $9 an hour job, the effect of the wage going from $7.50 to $8.50 is not going to have a direct effect on you. If it's in an area where essentially nobody is below $9/hr, then yes, you would expect no effect.

That said, "this law will have no effect" is not much of a selling point.

Yes. It is.
I think it is a very good selling point.

This law will have no effect on you, if you earn more than $11.00/hr.
If you earn less than $11.00/hr, this law will put more usable money in your hands.

If you earn more, you will not notice.
The way some people fight wage laws you would think wage laws set the top bar, not the bottom.

What The Fuck! People from Coast-to-Coast scream.
I can't live on $11.00/hr.!

Dropping all wages to $11.00 per hour would have a strange effect on the economy.
Hey! There is an idea! I like it! You!

Drop all Government Jobs to $11.00/hr.
Each family will be free to decide on Private Health Coverage or to buy into the Public Option.

How much of that $11.00 will be used for Blue Shield -Blue Cross and Kieser?
It could happen at the Click-Click-Click of a keyboard.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby sardia » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:53 pm UTC

Not having an effect on employment, aka not causing more unemployment is a evidence against the claim "raising minimum wage is bad because more people will be unemployed." That said, I want to see more studies on this to repeat the effect if possible.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Chen » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:47 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Not having an effect on employment, aka not causing more unemployment is a evidence against the claim "raising minimum wage is bad because more people will be unemployed." That said, I want to see more studies on this to repeat the effect if possible.


http://businessinnovation.berkeley.edu/ ... 110311.pdf

I only skimmed the paper itself but in the opening few pages, along with its references there are apparently a decent number of studies that claim minimum wage does increase unemployment and a decent number that claim it does not.

Not really sure what to make of that though.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:51 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
sardia wrote:Not having an effect on employment, aka not causing more unemployment is a evidence against the claim "raising minimum wage is bad because more people will be unemployed." That said, I want to see more studies on this to repeat the effect if possible.


http://businessinnovation.berkeley.edu/ ... 110311.pdf

I only skimmed the paper itself but in the opening few pages, along with its references there are apparently a decent number of studies that claim minimum wage does increase unemployment and a decent number that claim it does not.

Not really sure what to make of that though.

Sounds like gun control. Yay, socioeconomically-produced noise.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:21 pm UTC

The economics behind minimum wage is weird. In rate cases, the economics agrees that a raise in minimum wage will increase demand for minimum wage labor, in the event of a monopsony. Arguably in some areas there is an oligopsony, but geographic mobility is increasing as time goes on, making any monopsonies kind of moot.

Otherwise, it's, umm, strange.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:28 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Not having an effect on employment, aka not causing more unemployment is a evidence against the claim "raising minimum wage is bad because more people will be unemployed." That said, I want to see more studies on this to repeat the effect if possible.


Er. Not all minimum wage raises are equivalent. Going from 7.50 to 8 or something would be wildly different than going to $15.

Even the most pro-minimum wage people accept that boosting to say, $100/hr would be horribly undesirable. It's obviously going to be more complicated than the claim simply being true or false.


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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Jave D » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:53 am UTC

Local minimum wage is going up to $9/hr next month, and $10/hr in a year and a month. I am pleased with this. An extra $40 per week doesn't sound like a lot, but it's the difference between a diet of mac N cheese and ramen, and a diet of actual real food for some of us. Also a difference between maybe having to go on EBT and maybe not. I'm not worried about getting laid off, or having my hours cut either, because I'm reliable and hard working and I have my tongue in all the right assholes.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby EMTP » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:02 am UTC

Jave D wrote:Local minimum wage is going up to $9/hr next month, and $10/hr in a year and a month. I am pleased with this. An extra $40 per week doesn't sound like a lot, but it's the difference between a diet of mac N cheese and ramen, and a diet of actual real food for some of us. Also a difference between maybe having to go on EBT and maybe not. I'm not worried about getting laid off, or having my hours cut either, because I'm reliable and hard working and I have my tongue in all the right assholes.


Yes, I talked to someone looking for work is Seattle and he pointed out that the phase-in for this was crazy slow.

It'll be nice from a "lab of democracy" standpoint to see how this plays out.

Meanwhile, congrats on your raise.
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Derek » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:48 am UTC

Jave D wrote:Local minimum wage is going up to $9/hr next month, and $10/hr in a year and a month. I am pleased with this. An extra $40 per week doesn't sound like a lot, but it's the difference between a diet of mac N cheese and ramen, and a diet of actual real food for some of us. Also a difference between maybe having to go on EBT and maybe not. I'm not worried about getting laid off, or having my hours cut either, because I'm reliable and hard working and I have my tongue in all the right assholes.

You know, McDonalds is neither the healthiest nor the cheapest way to eat. Even for someone on a budget it's a terrible choice. You can pick some shit up at the grocery store and eat for easily half the price, and while it's not going to be organic chicken or free range vegetables, it'll be a lot healthier than fast food (although most of the healthy stuff, like fruits and vegetables, is cheaper than the unhealthy stuff like processed foods and (to some extent) meat).

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby elasto » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:13 am UTC

Did you read 'mac n cheese' and think it was a Big Mac?

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Derek » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:37 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Did you read 'mac n cheese' and think it was a Big Mac?

Umm...yes. That is, in fact, exactly what I did. You can redact my entire previous post.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Jave D » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:52 am UTC

Derek wrote:
elasto wrote:Did you read 'mac n cheese' and think it was a Big Mac?

Umm...yes. That is, in fact, exactly what I did. You can redact my entire previous post.


To be fair though, it still isn't the healthiest way to eat.

It is however pretty darn cheap. Less than a dollar for a good sized meal.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:03 am UTC

Vegetarian chili.
1 lb dry red beans, 1.29
2 cans tomatoes, 1.58
1/4 lb carrots, .20 (I buy 5 lb bags of them)
1/4 lb potato, .15 (10 lb bags)
1 lb onions, .75 (3 lb bags; they don't come in larger :()
3/4 lb frozen peppers, 1.29
1/2 lb frozen corn, .50 (2lb bags)
Jalapenoes, .20
Garlic/cumin/paprika/chili powder, maybe .50

$6.46, plus IDK how much for electricity. Honestly the recipe varies based on whatever I have on hand; that's just from last time. It's been a week and I still haven't gone through it all. Granted that I've been eating other stuff, but still. Anyone want the rest? Starting to get tired of it.


Ok, I realize I no longer know where I was going with this. Something about cheap food?

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:27 am UTC

Making your own food can certainly be done cheaply...staples like rice and beans are remarkably inexpensive in the US. When people talk about how expensive food is, they are almost invariably discussing how expensive premade meals or dining out is. Which, yknow...that IS significantly more expensive. Our tendancy to view premade meals/eating out as the norm is an issue for many things, not least of which is probably the US weight issue. In fairness, I'm on the big side myself currently, so I'm hardly innocent, but a return to accepting home-cooked meals as the normal option is probably a good goal. Economical and often healthier.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby BlackSails » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:13 pm UTC



That is currently more than I make, as a doctor, including only in-hospital hours.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:28 pm UTC

Consider the pitchforks.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby sardia » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:00 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Consider the pitchforks.

The current plan is to divide the country up so the people with pitchforks Blame each other. That way the rich can obfuscate blame behind Muslims, immigrants and whatever minority is unpopular at the moment.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby morriswalters » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:47 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Consider the pitchforks.

The current plan is to divide the country up so the people with pitchforks Blame each other. That way the rich can obfuscate blame behind Muslims, immigrants and whatever minority is unpopular at the moment.
When the pitchforks come out, it won't really matter. His scenario is my greatest fear. Society works because people believe in it. The minute they cease to believe, who knows what could happen.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Cleverbeans » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:52 pm UTC

EDIT: nm already posted earlier.
Last edited by Cleverbeans on Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby sardia » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:52 pm UTC

I never said the plan would work. Just that was the plan.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:56 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
sardia wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Consider the pitchforks.

The current plan is to divide the country up so the people with pitchforks Blame each other. That way the rich can obfuscate blame behind Muslims, immigrants and whatever minority is unpopular at the moment.
When the pitchforks come out, it won't really matter. His scenario is my greatest fear. Society works because people believe in it. The minute they cease to believe, who knows what could happen.


History shows us what happens. They squabble and make a giant mess, usually trying to take it out on whoever the "bad" others are. This is usually terrible at fixing things.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby EMTP » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:43 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:


That is currently more than I make, as a doctor, including only in-hospital hours.


Screwing minimum wage workers will not make residency suck less. It's designed to suck.

Tyndmyr wrote:History shows us what happens. They squabble and make a giant mess, usually trying to take it out on whoever the "bad" others are. This is usually terrible at fixing things.


Depends, doesn't it? The French Revolution was a giant mess, but the social, economic and legal reforms are still with us to this day. The English Civil War, the same.

I would agree that revolutions that operate out of a radical contempt for the existing norms and traditions of society tend to end very, very badly -- the Year Zero, etc. But there are also revolutions which, while exhibiting a total lack of faith in the rich and powerful and the institutions they have captured, still have have faith in society -- to be a revolutionary requires a touching faith in society, actually. Abolitionists, the Founders, feminists, civil rights leaders, Stonewall rioters and beyond, and many more -- they had both a lack of faith and a deeper faith, and they were ultimately quite successful.
"Reasonable – that is, human – men will always be capable of compromise, but men who have dehumanized themselves by becoming the blind worshipers of an idea or an ideal are fanatics whose devotion to abstractions makes them the enemies of life."
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:10 am UTC

Revolution is one thing, fixing things is something else. Use Syria as a model when you consider it.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby EMTP » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:33 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Revolution is one thing, fixing things is something else. Use Syria as a model when you consider it.


Syria is no more the universal truth of revolutions than is the American Revolution. Most efforts at social reform yield results somewhere in between those two extremes.

Revolutions often lead to horrible violence and depravity. Tyranny, too, can bring with it horrible violence and depravity. I don't think there's a general rule here which covers all cases.
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby elasto » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:28 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:


That is currently more than I make, as a doctor, including only in-hospital hours.

I'm assuming that's because you're hugely overworked hours-wise?

Other countries have realised that that's simply not a safe way to run a health service (let alone being inhumane). Hopefully your country will see that too someday.

In the meantime, assuming the numbers add up, the fact that one group of society is exploited is not a good reason to needlessly exploit another group. As part of the 99% don't play into the 1%'s hands by falling for their 'divide and conquer' tactics! ^^

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:02 pm UTC

EMTP wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Revolution is one thing, fixing things is something else. Use Syria as a model when you consider it.


Syria is no more the universal truth of revolutions than is the American Revolution. Most efforts at social reform yield results somewhere in between those two extremes.

Revolutions often lead to horrible violence and depravity. Tyranny, too, can bring with it horrible violence and depravity. I don't think there's a general rule here which covers all cases.
Sure there is. Certainly for most, what you have is less devastating then the pain of the process, good or bad. By that I mean that revolution is painful, always. And most people aren't interested in playing. Those people run, or die. It's why you get refugees. Even relatively peaceful change like the fall of the USSR caused a lot of turmoil.

In the US rising inequality and the gap between the poorest and the richest will eventually open the gates to a man on a white horse. Who will lead the pitchforks. Or so I believe. Early days though. I hopefully won't see it, if it come down to it.

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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:07 pm UTC

elasto wrote:In the meantime, assuming the numbers add up, the fact that one group of society is exploited is not a good reason to needlessly exploit another group. As part of the 99% don't play into the 1%'s hands by falling for their 'divide and conquer' tactics! ^^


Yes, yes, of course, it's a conspiracy to keep ya'll down. They got to do SOMETHING besides twirl their mustaches.

On the topic of revolutions...they are always costly, and often leave society in a worse state than how it started even if you ignore all the violence and bloodshed along the way. And there's usually plenty of that. Yes, they may sometimes be necessary, but revolution is really a strategy of extreme last resort. I sort of dislike when people toss it around as if it were a reasonable strategy in a first world country. Seems reckless. A little like promoting nuclear war casually. Ehhhh.

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CorruptUser
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:50 pm UTC

That's why we have democracy; revolution is unnecessary to bring about popular change, so long as the definition of 'popular' isn't arbitrarily restricted to a tiny minority.

morriswalters
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby morriswalters » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:01 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's why we have democracy; revolution is unnecessary to bring about popular change, so long as the definition of 'popular' isn't arbitrarily restricted to a tiny minority.
Do you believe on any level that we have a true Democracy or have had for some time?
Tyndmyr wrote:Yes, yes, of course, it's a conspiracy to keep ya'll down. They got to do SOMETHING besides twirl their mustaches.
It isn't that money, or the people that have it, are twirling their mustaches. Its that they feel no compunction to do anything that serves any purpose other than their own. So if a forest falls, they are insulated from the effects because they can afford to be insulated. Global warming for instance , won't effect the wealthy until after the point where the average man is going to have suffered a lot.

There is a crackpot theory around that the wealthy drive collapse by continuing to over produce long after there are indications that they should rein themselves in. The question is, is it really a crackpot idea? And the tendency runs deep. It isn't just the wealthy. But when one percent controls most of the wealth than they can do dangerous things without any sense of contrition or remorse, because no one can effectively stop them. Things that you and I can't.

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Lucrece
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Re: SeaTac, Washington State Passes $15 Minimum Wage

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:35 pm UTC

$12/hour residency? What a scam. Here in Miami I could be having a pharmacy assistant job for 15+ dollars an hour. And Miami isn't even the most cost efficient city. $12/hour residency is plain theft for the work you actually do, I despise people who shamelessly exploit.

Sometimes I'm really glad to not be in New York or San Francisco or Chicago or Boston. The cost of living in those places is just criminal.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.


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