Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

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Paul in Saudi
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Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:23 pm UTC

The gentleman who flipped that rock in Utah off its pedestal has written an apology. I find that apologies that discuss other people's behavior (as this one does) are not worth much. It seems just too, too unfair to this person that he is getting blame for what he did while others did worse and got away with it.

Here is the first paragraph. It gets worse as it goes along.

Hello. My name is Glenn Taylor. If you recognize my name, you probably hate me. You may not recognize my name, but, as evidenced by the “virality” of my story, still probably hate me! And if you don’t hate me now, you’ll surely hate me when I disclose my crime(s) in this, my apology letter. I’m going to be exceedingly, brutally honest with you. I’m an idiot. A fool. The “Paul Blart” of Boy Scout leaders. I am worthy of your scorn..your mockery…your contempt — BUT, I’m also worthy of your forgiveness. I hope that my honest, earnest apology will help you put my transgressions into context, and, most importantly, help you to forgive me…like you’ve recently and continually forgiven other Americans.

http://danbojangles.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/man-who-toppled-utah-rock-formation-pens-apology-calls-self-outrage-distraction-of-the-week/

I can forgive him. Heck, I do forgive him, for whatever that is worth. He still needs to be punished to deter others. It will be good for him to have some time to think about what he did wrong. It will be good for society to keep him away from the rest of us for a period of time. But I forgive him.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:28 pm UTC

I've got mixed feelings about that. If that area was anything like any of the other countless desert parklands, 'precariously balanced rocks' are probably a dime a dozen. Yes, it takes ages for them to form, and we can't have a world wherein every park goer gets to destroy a piece of the environment, but it's not like the dude went to the top of the Moab Arch and sawed it in half.

He probably shouldn't have said anything, as our national attention for these sorts of things is a few weeks at best.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:34 pm UTC

I can't help but think a good lawyer would have helped him write a better apology. It starts off OK, but then devolves into anger at the unjust nature of being him blamed for things for things he did. Maybe an apology would have helped somehow. This is not the document he ought to have released.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Carlington » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:14 pm UTC

I'm just checking, you guys did see the bit at the bottom that said
Letter not actually written by or for anyone named Glenn Taylor. It's satire!
...right?
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:19 pm UTC

Oh Damn! Really? I now invite you to heap upon me both your ridicule and your scorn. (Not that that would be fair of course.)

Sorry about that.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Carlington » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:25 pm UTC

Your apology started off OK, Paul, but then devolved into anger at the unjust nature of being blamed for the things that you post.

:P

Not an issue, I just thought I'd check to make sure. With the way threads in N&A usually turn out, I can't help but feel like we should save our fiery debating energy for the times it's needed most.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

Truly, I appreciate you finding my mistake before it went too far. I really ought to check better.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby addams » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:10 am UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYFD18BwmJ4
What do we think about some Good Old Boys redecorating our parks?

Personally, I don't like it.
I also understand the human tendency to rearrange the world.

We are a driven species. Busy, Busy, Busy.
We do need public education and public service announcements.

Threats are ok, I suppose. An explanation is better.
Some people will choose to alter the world no matter what other people say.

Most will say mean things about the rocks and leave them alone.
Those rocks take some time to erode into strange and unlikely shapes.

A team of BoyScouts could move through that valley and leave no stone on stone.
It might take two days. Then what?

Our common heritage.
I have spoken to people that did not understand why they could not gather fire wood from a popular park.
Human beings can strip the park of the features that attracted people to the park.

I know some of the Laws need to be bent.
A protected beach means do not remove significant features.
Do not carve your name, the name of your political party or name of your favorite StupidBall team into the soft cliff faces.

It does not mean you can't take a stone or broken shell or hand full of sand.
If the Rangers wanted to stop us and take our little piece of polished glass, they could.
To get this into the public awareness is a good idea. Don't tear up the parks. You might want them when you grow up.

Those are advantaged people. They are spoiled and they don't know it.
Fun with their friends is vandalism. Who raised these people?

That man is too old to be behaving like that.
But; He did not know any better.

Many of our people do not know any better.
"You seen one tree, you seen 'em all."

One less rock to be bothered with?
People drive for days to see that sort of formation.

To have a nice one so easy to get to is good for people that can not hike 10 miles each way.
There it was, near the trail. Anyone could touch it. He did.

I Like Rocks!
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby BattleMoose » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:58 am UTC

I actually really liked the apology, the brutal honesty. Went off track with the middle east. Disappointed that its not legitimate, actually.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Diadem » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:27 am UTC

What is this about? He toppled a rock formation? How? How do you topple a rock formation?

Edit: Ok, I found a video, and he just pushed over a loose rock. So what? If you can push a rock with your hands it was probably going to fall over in the next serious storm anyway. Heck, the park rangers are horribly negligent for not pushing it over themselves - if it had fallen on some kid by accident I'd say they'd definitely have been liable. Unless it's some major landmark or something, you obviously don't want to knock those over, but it didn't look to be that, and besides, even in that case there should at least be a warning sign.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Zamfir » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:21 am UTC

Unless it's some major landmark

It was in a state park dedicated to these rocks. According to its wikipedia page, it was declared a state park in order to protect them from vandalism. That comes close to a landmark, right?

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby morriswalters » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:30 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:What is this about? He toppled a rock formation? How? How do you topple a rock formation?

Edit: Ok, I found a video, and he just pushed over a loose rock. So what? If you can push a rock with your hands it was probably going to fall over in the next serious storm anyway. Heck, the park rangers are horribly negligent for not pushing it over themselves - if it had fallen on some kid by accident I'd say they'd definitely have been liable. Unless it's some major landmark or something, you obviously don't want to knock those over, but it didn't look to be that, and besides, even in that case there should at least be a warning sign.
That kind of attitude is why our parks take a beating. The saying here is, take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. There are warning signs and people ignore them. The formations are there to look at, not topple.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Enokh » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

I went over to Arizona and Utah when I was in High School and did the standard tourist circuit. Goblin Valley is by FAR my favorite Park in those two states.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby addams » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:03 am UTC

Diadem wrote:What is this about? He toppled a rock formation? How? How do you topple a rock formation?

Edit: Ok, I found a video, and he just pushed over a loose rock. So what? If you can push a rock with your hands it was probably going to fall over in the next serious storm anyway. Heck, the park rangers are horribly negligent for not pushing it over themselves - if it had fallen on some kid by accident I'd say they'd definitely have been liable. Unless it's some major landmark or something, you obviously don't want to knock those over, but it didn't look to be that, and besides, even in that case there should at least be a warning sign.

Diadem! tisk. tisk.
I would expect better from you.
These rocks are like flowers that take thousands of years to bloom.

I know not everyone likes rocks. Even I get tired of them, sometimes.
Did you see the photo a poster left on the thread? It is a strange landscape.

They do look like they would fall over with the first strong breeze. They do fall.
The ones that shelter their bases as well as the one that was decapitated are fairly rare.

Within easy reach of people they are getting more and more rare, every year.

I have listened to misanthropes discuss keeping people out of the parks. People that don't like people do not need to look very hard to find good examples to support that point of view. People are often disrespectful and destructive to things they do not understand. Much of the destruction is not on YouTube for all the world to see.

Rocks. The US has rocks. Tons of rocks. Great wide sweeping vistas of Rocks.
Some of those rocks do great tricks. Rocks are slow.

It takes more that one hundred human lifetimes for a good rock to finish a trick.
That man interrupted a rock that was doing a trick. That is a rare trick.

That was like a double back flip for a rock.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Diadem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:30 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Diadem wrote:What is this about? He toppled a rock formation? How? How do you topple a rock formation?

Edit: Ok, I found a video, and he just pushed over a loose rock. So what? If you can push a rock with your hands it was probably going to fall over in the next serious storm anyway. Heck, the park rangers are horribly negligent for not pushing it over themselves - if it had fallen on some kid by accident I'd say they'd definitely have been liable. Unless it's some major landmark or something, you obviously don't want to knock those over, but it didn't look to be that, and besides, even in that case there should at least be a warning sign.
That kind of attitude is why our parks take a beating. The saying here is, take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. There are warning signs and people ignore them. The formations are there to look at, not topple.

And you think two men can exert more force than a strong wind, or a hurricane? If two men can push something over, that something wasn't going to last long anyway, exposed to the elements. Also, if American kids are in any way like Dutch kids, they love to climb on, or fool around with, stones like these, most likely without much concern for their own safety.

So I still maintain that either it should have been better guarded, if it really was a precious natural artifact, or it should have been removed long ago by the park rangers themselves, as a safety hazard.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby morriswalters » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:06 pm UTC

Please don't come here. We already have enough people who seem to think that carrying home our national parks one piece at a time is fun. The National parks cover an area of about 51.9 million acres. Larger than the Netherlands. State Parks of which Goblin is one add substantially to that, Utah has about 95,000 acres in theirs. Rangers cannot be everywhere.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby firechicago » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:18 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:And you think two men can exert more force than a strong wind, or a hurricane? If two men can push something over, that something wasn't going to last long anyway, exposed to the elements. Also, if American kids are in any way like Dutch kids, they love to climb on, or fool around with, stones like these, most likely without much concern for their own safety.

So I still maintain that either it should have been better guarded, if it really was a precious natural artifact, or it should have been removed long ago by the park rangers themselves, as a safety hazard.

Being over 500 miles from the nearest ocean, hurricanes are remarkably rare in Utah. As is precipitation of any kind. As for strong winds, these formations are actually formed by strong winds. So yes, eventually the wind will topple it, but that's a process that will take many thousands of years.

And saying that every single rock formation should be guarded is like saying that every single tree in the national forests needs 24-hour surveillance. Yeah, relatively few people will miss this one rock formation. But vandalizing a national park and then posting video of yourself doing it online is still something that is and should be punishable.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby addams » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:34 am UTC

Did you see how hard that good ole' boy had to work to knock the head off that rock.
It is amazing how stable those rocks are.

A long time ago, before I knew better, I tried to knock some over.
I was not strong enough. Thank God.

What these three men did is a symptom of a national disorder.
I have my tail in a knot about the Narcism of the American Psyche.

I would be willing to call it Infantile Narcissism.
Is that what you saw on the YouTube clip? I did.

I am not pleased with what I hear and see of our people.
Shallow is another word for it.

What those men did to the rock shows a profound lack of thoughtfulness.
Self interest to the determent of other people. Thoughtless.

Thoughtless because he comes from a place that values exibitionism not thoughtfulness.
Those men may never have been great minds.
Yet; They seen bright enough to wipe their own asses, say please and thank-you,
not blow their noses into cloth napkins, sit upright at meals not sprawled, speak their native tounge with respect for the listener and their teachers. But, they don't.

That is the issue for me.
What kind of manners do my people have?

Those were adult men.
They were behaving like out of control teen age girls in the bodies of Ganish.

If this were rare, we could disregard this one act of vandalism.
This is not rare. That sort of man is common.

Too fucking common.
This one rock is not the issue for me.
The shallow, immature behavior of not one group out in Gobblin Valley but of an Army of soft, thoughtless men roam our land and many run our land. These are not people you and I can trust with important decisions.

We Are Fucked! These are the people that set the standards many of us can not stoop to.
These people decide important issues.
These people will use all of the education they refused and a giggling buddy to decided my fate and yours.

I do not have respect for this sort of man. I fear him.
The clip from Goblin Valley gives us a glimpse into the world of the Adult American man.
I find the creature wanting.

We have had fifteen years of a cultural Train Wreck.
This clip is shows a symptom.
How can we have a civil life when those guys are the most reasonable, level headed people we have?

This is a type of man. He is common as mud and his self esteem is high, high, high.
This is His Time. Stupid, Shallow and Big. That is the Real American of today!

We are doomed.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:19 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Please don't come here. We already have enough people who seem to think that carrying home our national parks one piece at a time is fun. The National parks cover an area of about 51.9 million acres. Larger than the Netherlands. State Parks of which Goblin is one add substantially to that, Utah has about 95,000 acres in theirs. Rangers cannot be everywhere.


Yeah, but not every one of those acres is equally important. Major sites like Old Yellowstone are obviously a lot more unique and in need of protection than other areas. These rocks are...somewhere in the middle. Certainly not unique, but not utterly common either. They probably shouldn't have been messing with the rock, but the reaction and threats and ridiculousness seems overblown. I've seen people demanding death or life in prison. This seems out of proportion to the offense.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby morriswalters » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:02 pm UTC

I think he been punished enough. But he was applying for disability, I find that funny as hell. Not the type of pictures you would like the judges to see. :twisted:

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby addams » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:21 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:I think he been punished enough. But he was applying for disability, I find that funny as hell. Not the type of pictures you would like the judges to see. :twisted:

What? He is no longer allowed to be a Boy Scout.
That is all. I can find no other consequences to that man for what he did.

What he did is bad. No one else knows that?
The Boy Scouts do. No one else?

How bad? What is the right and proper thing to do to a vandal?
If he had destroyed a statue in Washington DC what would happen to him?

My favorite answer used to be, "Take a Class."
It still is. And; Pass That Class!

It would be at least a year long class.
If he were able to attend everyday, because he is not working for one reason or the other, then it might take 6 months.

He would be able to tell the Boy Scouts the difference between the white rocks in the background and that orange rock he knocked over. He would be able to explain the difference between limestone and lava.
oh. How horrible for a person that does not like rocks.

If he did not like rocks then he should not have been hanging out with rocks.
Our people are not too stupid to live. Our people are too undereducated to live well.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:07 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Yeah, but not every one of those acres is equally important. Major sites like Old Yellowstone are obviously a lot more unique and in need of protection than other areas. These rocks are...somewhere in the middle. Certainly not unique, but not utterly common either. They probably shouldn't have been messing with the rock, but the reaction and threats and ridiculousness seems overblown. I've seen people demanding death or life in prison. This seems out of proportion to the offense.



How can something be "more unique?"

I think it is important to note the soundtrack of the video. This fellow seems to have honestly thought what he was doing was a good idea. He did not do it to cause damage.

He needs to be made an example of. But his punishment must be proportional.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby addams » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:52 am UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Yeah, but not every one of those acres is equally important. Major sites like Old Yellowstone are obviously a lot more unique and in need of protection than other areas. These rocks are...somewhere in the middle. Certainly not unique, but not utterly common either. They probably shouldn't have been messing with the rock, but the reaction and threats and ridiculousness seems overblown. I've seen people demanding death or life in prison. This seems out of proportion to the offense.



How can something be "more unique?"

I think it is important to note the soundtrack of the video. This fellow seems to have honestly thought what he was doing was a good idea. He did not do it to cause damage.

He needs to be made an example of. But his punishment must be proportional.

Yes. Make him take Geology. A lot of it.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby morriswalters » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:38 pm UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:I think it is important to note the soundtrack of the video. This fellow seems to have honestly thought what he was doing was a good idea. He did not do it to cause damage.
We create parks so they can be maintained in the fashion in which they were found. I suggest that he remember that they are public property, not his. I may find the tree in his yard a possible hazard to my home but it doesn't give me any right to chop it down. And he would be pissed if I did. What he did was arrogant. If he felt the need to make parks a better place he should have picked up the trash that gets left behind. Volunteered to clean off the graffiti. Which in my state is what scouts do.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby engr » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:43 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:They probably shouldn't have been messing with the rock, but the reaction and threats and ridiculousness seems overblown. I've seen people demanding death or life in prison. This seems out of proportion to the offense.


They should be sentenced to ten years of hard labor, turning big rocks into little rocks!
(sorry, I just couldn't resist...)
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:45 am UTC

Paul in Saudi wrote:He still needs to be punished to deter others.

I doubt any punishment is actually going to deter others. The only reason why he got caught was because he was stupid enough to be filmed doing it. It's probably pretty easy to get away with doing it as long as someone isn't watching.
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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby morriswalters » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:27 am UTC

Yep, let em post video on youtube, I love stupid people.

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Re: Not Much of an Apology, Methinks

Postby addams » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:31 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Yep, let em post video on youtube, I love stupid people.

My guess is that man would not have decapitated that rock if he were not playing to the camera.

It is a symptom of Arested Delevopment.
That man appeared to be immature.

His companions were egging him on.
The camera was like having a girl there to show off for.

It is so sad. He must have believed all woman everywhere would be impressed with his stupidity.
Women were to be impressed, Men envious. The American Male as it is. "Hi! I am 5'10'' 320# and I am four years old! Watch!"

Four? Not all of our people have arrested development at four years old.
Too many of our people have arrested development at four years old.

Of Course! Everyone feels four years old!
Real Adults do not act on those feelings without checking with a more mature part of themselves.

Americans do? Is that freedom? The Right to do any fucking thing you want?
So many others lost so much when that rock fell. He will never know? Too stupid to understand?

It is not so bad to have one retard. But; We may have 300 million retards. That is a lot of stupid.

Fifty million people that would have looked at that rock. Touched that rock.
Made fools of themselves around that rock. And; Left that rock to weather.

That 300 million make the rest of us look bad. hohum. So much for Democracy. Mob Rule leave a lot of damage. Mobs tend to be unruly.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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