Guantanamo Hunger Strike

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Heisenberg
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Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:07 pm UTC

Politico wrote:The U.S. military says a hunger strike at the Guantanamo Bay prison has grown to include at least 28 prisoners.

Defense lawyers say prisoners began the strike began on Feb. 6 to protest what they say are more intrusive searches of their cells and of their indefinite confinement.
Miami Herald wrote:About 90 of the captives have been cleared for release by an Obama-era task force but remain at the detention center due to a combination of Congressional restrictions and political instability in their own countries that have stalled repatriations.
More than half of the inmates have now been cleared for release, but are still being detained in this hellhole.

Eh, we'll shut it down next year.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Telchar » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:09 pm UTC

A lot of them are probably Syrian, which presents a problem. But you're right, in the mean time they shouldn't be stuck in detention if they've been cleared.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Zcorp » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:26 pm UTC

Telchar wrote:A lot of them are probably Syrian, which presents a problem.

Excuse my ignorance but why? Unless you are talking about the conflict in Syria and giving them the freedom to choose to go back would be some how viewed as a problem?

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Telchar » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:38 pm UTC

Zcorp wrote:
Telchar wrote:A lot of them are probably Syrian, which presents a problem.

Excuse my ignorance but why? Unless you are talking about the conflict in Syria and giving them the freedom to choose to go back would be some how viewed as a problem?


Repatriation is usually done in conjunction with the government of whichever nation they claim citizenship. Where would you suggest they drop them off in Syria? Or how do they verify that they are even Syrian if the government refuses to cooperate?

Just dropping people off in the middle of a warzone is unacceptable. However, so is continuing to detain people that should be free. My solution would be to allow them to stay on the base without being detained until the situation in Syria comes to some conclusion or some other country agrees to accept them and they agree to go.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby addams » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:37 pm UTC

Telchar wrote:
Zcorp wrote:
Telchar wrote:A lot of them are probably Syrian, which presents a problem.

Excuse my ignorance but why? Unless you are talking about the conflict in Syria and giving them the freedom to choose to go back would be some how viewed as a problem?


Repatriation is usually done in conjunction with the government of whichever nation they claim citizenship. Where would you suggest they drop them off in Syria? Or how do they verify that they are even Syrian if the government refuses to cooperate?

Just dropping people off in the middle of a warzone is unacceptable. However, so is continuing to detain people that should be free. My solution would be to allow them to stay on the base without being detained until the situation in Syria comes to some conclusion or some other country agrees to accept them and they agree to go.


Hey! That is a pretty good idea.
Of course, they will need transportation and money.

And; A translator or five might be nice, too.

Stay on Base or Stay somewhere else in Cuba.
They are in Cuba. Right?

Cuba is not a war zone. Right?
No one ever tells me anything.

It is not nice to, just, drop a person off.
It is the kind of thing Americans do to one another.
So; The World would be prudent to worry about them doing it to others.

Spoiler:
Hunger Strike? I still do not understand Hunger Strikes.
Who gives a flying fuck?

Eat. Don't eat. (shrug.)

Would these men be heroes in the towns of Cuba?
I don't know. That is why I am asking.

I have heard weird things about Cuba.
The food is too sweet. That is what I was told.

Can Cuba absorb this many 'new people''?

How many are there?
These are men that have lived as POW's for how long?

Good God! How long have these people been held?
Does one day this way or that way make a difference, now?

If these men are real, then they should be given liberty Yesterday or the Day Before Yesterday.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:22 pm UTC

52 men are now refusing to eat at Guantanamo Bay. That's roughly a third of the prisoners we're holding there. A Yemeni man's story was recently featured in the New York Times:

Gitmo Is Killing Me

How did we come to value this man's life enough to force a feeding tube down his throat, when a few short years ago we were willing to torture him?

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:09 am UTC

Heisenberg wrote:How did we come to value this man's life enough to force a feeding tube down his throat, when a few short years ago we were willing to torture him?


I suspect that little in prisons has to do with valuing life. It's much more about power, and making sure people do what you want. Then again, I might be just a touch cynical.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Belial » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:26 am UTC

Pretty much. The idea of a hunger strike is to shame someone else into action: if the prison administration simply sat back and allowed these folk to starve, we would rightly call them barbaric, and it would draw extreme negative attention to them. As it is, the strike itself draws some amount of said attention.

Responding by violently forcefeeding the person is, in turn, the second crappiest way they could respond.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby morriswalters » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:05 am UTC

Let them die or force feed them. Pretty crappy choices. Do you have a third for all the people who could care less that these men have chosen this? A lot of Americans don't care. They feel safer because Gitmo exists. That's also pretty crappy. If they hated us when they got there you can imagine how they feel now. I suppose we should feel some measure of relief that they weren't killed and buried at sea in secret, or gassed and buried in mass graves. But that is a cold comfort. Has any sovereign entity volunteered to take them?

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:35 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Let them die or force feed them. Pretty crappy choices. Do you have a third for all the people who could care less that these men have chosen this? A lot of Americans don't care. They feel safer because Gitmo exists. That's also pretty crappy. If they hated us when they got there you can imagine how they feel now. I suppose we should feel some measure of relief that they weren't killed and buried at sea in secret, or gassed and buried in mass graves. But that is a cold comfort. Has any sovereign entity volunteered to take them?


Oh, that choice is indeed a crappy one. But, like most crappy ones, it need not come to that. The cleared for release ones...meh, give 'em the choice. If they want to go home, with the problems that are there...let 'em. My guess is that most of them would opt for that over staying there. Would it be better if the country was not at war? Well, yeah. But that's true for everyone in that country, not just released detainees.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Zcorp » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:52 am UTC

Telchar wrote:Repatriation is usually done in conjunction with the government of whichever nation they claim citizenship. Where would you suggest they drop them off in Syria? Or how do they verify that they are even Syrian if the government refuses to cooperate?

Just dropping people off in the middle of a warzone is unacceptable. However, so is continuing to detain people that should be free. My solution would be to allow them to stay on the base without being detained until the situation in Syria comes to some conclusion or some other country agrees to accept them and they agree to go.

Little late responding and Tyndmyr already expressed most of what I'm going to say.

Yeah, at the least we should be treating them as a form of guests and not prisoners. I'm certain there are more complications that I can currently imagine relating to letting them go back to Syria if they choose to do so, but giving them the option doesn't seem like a big problem. While I can also see an argument for giving them citizenship, I doubt Americans would allow that to happen.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Belial » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:55 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Let them die or force feed them. Pretty crappy choices. Do you have a third for all the people who could care less that these men have chosen this?


Nope. Your options are let them die, force feed them, or start caring, which involves doing something to remedy their situation.

Which is, indeed, their goal.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:58 am UTC

To be honest, I'd imagine most of those folks would not be entirely stoked about the idea of becoming US citizens at this point. If they weren't anti-US before this process, it wouldn't be surprising if they are now.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:59 am UTC

There is also the option of making things worse for every person that goes on the hunger strike.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:03 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Belial » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:01 am UTC

I'm pretty sure any method for making a guantanamo stay worse would run afoul of our rules against torture, and also would play into the goal of the hunger strike anyway: to publicly make the people with the power look like irredeemable shitheads. Passive resistance, yo.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:06 am UTC

Never said making things worse wasn't torture. Hell, it's pretty obvious from those photos that they were tortured. Wouldn't be surprised if we were still torturing them, just not so stupid as to take pictures of it.

Just pointing out we have that option.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Kulantan » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:39 am UTC

Telchar wrote:A lot of them are probably Syrian, which presents a problem. But you're right, in the mean time they shouldn't be stuck in detention if they've been cleared.

86 of the remaining detainees have been cleared for release, 56 of those are Yemeni. Only four of the detainees at Guantánamo are Syrian.

morriswalters wrote:Has any sovereign entity volunteered to take them?

Yes, Yemen has volunteered to take back its nationals and has in fact demanded them back.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby morriswalters » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:36 am UTC

I find it unsurprising that Yemen would have asked. Were it me I would drop them off, all of them. Generally speaking I care less about them then what it says about us that we could hold them this way. But convince the American public to share your outrage, because as far as I can see they don't. I think that in the quiet places, without saying it, a large number would be just as happy if these men were dead. 9/11 brought fear home to the general public. And politicians keep fanning the flames.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby sardia » Wed May 01, 2013 6:19 pm UTC

Wow, it's certainly grown since the first post. Has anyone considered allowing them to kill themselves?

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby CorruptUser » Wed May 01, 2013 6:32 pm UTC

I don't really blame them for the hunger strike though. Many waited until Obama came in, where he claimed he would shut it down. But he didn't, so they waited until maybe Obama would lose and the other guy would shut it down. Nope. Really, if they stay in prison the rest of their lives it's no different from simply dying. So if there is some chance that any of them are freed if the rest have to die to do so, might as well.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby eran_rathan » Wed May 01, 2013 6:58 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I don't really blame them for the hunger strike though. Many waited until Obama came in, where he claimed he would shut it down. But he didn't, so they waited until maybe Obama would lose and the other guy would shut it down. Nope. Really, if they stay in prison the rest of their lives it's no different from simply dying. So if there is some chance that any of them are freed if the rest have to die to do so, might as well.


Obama tried to close it (not very hard, granted, but he did order it closed). Congress, on the other hand, are the shitbags who basically forced it to remain open by making it nearly impossible for the President to release or try the people in there.

Wikipedia wrote:On January 22, 2009, President Barack Obama signed an order to suspend the proceedings of the Guantanamo military commission for 120 days and to shut down the detention facility within the year.[11][12] On January 29, 2009, a military judge at Guantanamo rejected the White House request in the case of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, creating an unexpected challenge for the administration as it reviewed how the United States brings Guantanamo detainees to trial.[13] On May 20, 2009, the United States Senate passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 (H.R. 2346) by a 90-6 vote to block funds needed for the transfer or release of prisoners held at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[14] President Obama issued a Presidential memorandum dated December 15, 2009, ordering Thomson Correctional Center, Thomson, Illinois to be prepared to accept transferred Guantanamo prisoners.[15]
The Final Report of the Guantanamo Review Task Force, dated January 22, 2010, published the results for the 240 detainees subject to the Review: 36 were the subject of active cases or investigations; 30 detainees from Yemen were designated for 'conditional detention' due to the poor security environment in Yemen; 126 detainees were approved for transfer; 48 detainees were determined 'too dangerous to transfer but not feasible for prosecution'.[16]
On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the 2011 Defense Authorization Bill, which, in part, placed restrictions on the transfer of Guantanamo prisoners to the mainland or to foreign countries, thus impeding the closure of the facility.[17] U.S. Secretary of Defense Gates said during testimony before the US Senate Armed Services Committee on February 17, 2011: "The prospects for closing Guantanamo as best I can tell are very, very low given very broad opposition to doing that here in the Congress."[18] Congress particularly opposed moving prisoners to facilities in the United States for detention or trial.[18] In April 2011, Wikileaks began publishing 779 secret files relating to prisoners in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[19] As of March 2013, 166 detainees remain at Guantanamo.[20][21]
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Telchar » Wed May 01, 2013 7:49 pm UTC

eran_rathan wrote:
Obama tried to close it (not very hard, granted, but he did order it closed). Congress, on the other hand, are the shitbags who basically forced it to remain open by making it nearly impossible for the President to release or try the people in there.


Don't forget kids! Terrorists are supervillains who will escape from jail! Only prisons made out of mint leaves and rum can contain them, which is why they're in Cuba...I guess...
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Kulantan » Thu May 02, 2013 2:53 am UTC

It is also important to remember that it is Obama who ordered that the Yemeni detainees that have been cleared for release be held indefinitely until "security in Yemen improves". He did this because of a failed terrorist attempt and it essentially makes being Yemeni in Guantanamo a crime.

It should also be mentioned that the Obama's plan to close Guantanamo preserved all of indefinite detention without trial stuff, it just wasn't in Cuba.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby iamspen » Sat May 04, 2013 12:20 am UTC

eran_rathan wrote:Obama tried to close it (not very hard, granted, but he did order it closed). Congress, on the other hand, are the shitbags who basically forced it to remain open by making it nearly impossible for the President to release or try the people in there.


That's what Obama would like you to believe. In fact, however, Obama is the commander-in-chief, and Guantanamo is a military facility. While he arguably may not have the authority to grant freedom to prisoners, he absolutely has every right to determine in what facilities they are housed, and there's not a damn thing Congress or state governors can do about it, so long as those facilities are federal and military in nature.

In short, Guantanamo could be closed tomorrow. But it won't be.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat May 04, 2013 1:29 am UTC

iamspen wrote:
eran_rathan wrote:Obama tried to close it (not very hard, granted, but he did order it closed). Congress, on the other hand, are the shitbags who basically forced it to remain open by making it nearly impossible for the President to release or try the people in there.


That's what Obama would like you to believe. In fact, however, Obama is the commander-in-chief, and Guantanamo is a military facility. While he arguably may not have the authority to grant freedom to prisoners, he absolutely has every right to determine in what facilities they are housed, and there's not a damn thing Congress or state governors can do about it, so long as those facilities are federal and military in nature.

In short, Guantanamo could be closed tomorrow. But it won't be.


Why couldn't Obama grant freedom? Hell, a presidential pardon works for anyone, military justice system or not. Even if he doesn't close the system, he very definitely could order them released.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby elasto » Sat May 04, 2013 1:44 am UTC

Where would they go? They can't go into the US, they don't have passports, and I assume the President doesn't have the power to issue those. And in many cases their home countries don't want them either. But, really, for those that have been held for a decade plus without enough evidence being gathered to convict them of any crime, their countries should be paid to take them back and they should be paid large amounts of compensation so they can make some attempt to restore their broken lives.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby sardia » Sat May 04, 2013 3:21 am UTC

elasto wrote:Where would they go? They can't go into the US, they don't have passports, and I assume the President doesn't have the power to issue those. And in many cases their home countries don't want them either. But, really, for those that have been held for a decade plus without enough evidence being gathered to convict them of any crime, their countries should be paid to take them back and they should be paid large amounts of compensation so they can make some attempt to restore their broken lives.

We get into a tricky part of the requirements for case by case release. The Obama administration wants "a secure environment", paraphrase, to release them into or else they won't do it. The GOP doesn't want them out at all, cuz terrorism. This is an overly simplistic explanation since we're not getting into the gritty details.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby addams » Sat May 04, 2013 7:11 am UTC

elasto wrote:Where would they go? They can't go into the US, they don't have passports, and I assume the President doesn't have the power to issue those. And in many cases their home countries don't want them either. But, really, for those that have been held for a decade plus without enough evidence being gathered to convict them of any crime, their countries should be paid to take them back and they should be paid large amounts of compensation so they can make some attempt to restore their broken lives.

This makes sense.
What about Cuba?

Yes. One of these fine days, they may be able to return to 'HOME'.
After ten years away from Home, it is not easy to Go Home.

Yes. The US made a bad one. Yes. The US must pay a reasonable amount to use to restore a broken life or to build a new life.

Cuba is where they are. How does Cuba feel about These Guys living Free in Cuba?
It could Work. Of course, the US comes off as a douche any way this goes.

Shall we get all Poetic? Abraham Lincoln said, "The World will not long Remember what we do."
He went on and on about the Dead bestowing some kind of Sacredness.

What will The World Remember?
These men were held for a very long time.

These men were allowed to Go Free?
Free? Grant Freedom?
Yes. Mr. Obama can grant Freedom.

I have a little more than a Feeling.
Mr. Obama is the Prisoner in Chief.
Yes. It is a Golden Cage.
Still; It's a cage.

Dangerous Guys?
The money the US must allow to be used to help these men can be used by the Cubans to keep an eye on Them.
They can't, just, walk away. They will need Guides. They will need Hotel Rooms or A small villa.

It could work. Those Guys have been away for a long time.
Of course, after a decade they have, most likely, internalized a Super Nostalgia for Home.
It may take a while, yet; These men, if supported, could learn to Love Cuba.
If allowed to Be Free we don't know what they will do.
They might want to be Useful. You might be surpassed how important and healing Usefulness can be.
They each may have a Special Talent that could be developed.

After Ten Years it may take One Year to Remember how to Live, again.
These people will need help.
When The Cubans help them, the Cubans can keep and eye on them.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Thesh » Sat May 04, 2013 7:12 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:It should also be mentioned that the Obama's plan to close Guantanamo preserved all of indefinite detention without trial stuff, it just wasn't in Cuba.


I think this is the big problem with the plans to close it down. It boils down to "Well, where will we lock them up if not Gitmo?" because the politicians completely ignore the actual objections about locking people up without trial and without being declared POWs.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby addams » Sat May 04, 2013 3:26 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
Kulantan wrote:It should also be mentioned that the Obama's plan to close Guantanamo preserved all of indefinite detention without trial stuff, it just wasn't in Cuba.


I think this is the big problem with the plans to close it down. It boils down to "Well, where will we lock them up if not Gitmo?" because the politicians completely ignore the actual objections about locking people up without trial and without being declared POWs.

yes. You have a point.

The individual Human Beings have immediate needs.

Then, There is an international 'What The Fuck' that needs to take place, also.

The US has been bad. Bad to Strangers from a Far Off Land.
The US has been bad. Bad to its Own on its Own Land.

At What Point does Cuba shut That Fucking Black Site with The Bright Light on it Down?!
How Fucking helpless and clueless is Cuba?

Who gets to set up Prisons in Other people's countries?
Poland did not shut their Black Sites down.
But; Cuba could shut its Black Site down.

What?! How does it make sense for this to be going on?
The US does not Like Cuba. Is this a way for the US to kill two birds with one stone?

This shows Cuba it is Helpless, This causes suffering to individual human beings.
What else does the facility at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba do?

There was a Rumor. The Rumor said there are other Black Sites.
What do you think? The Americans are too good for that?

Nah. I have met some. The Americans are not too good for that.
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Tyndmyr » Sat May 04, 2013 3:34 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Where would they go? They can't go into the US, they don't have passports, and I assume the President doesn't have the power to issue those. And in many cases their home countries don't want them either. But, really, for those that have been held for a decade plus without enough evidence being gathered to convict them of any crime, their countries should be paid to take them back and they should be paid large amounts of compensation so they can make some attempt to restore their broken lives.


Yemen wants theirs, and that's what, half of them? It'd be fairly understandable if there were a coupla prisoners left over who were fellows without a country, but given that there's plenty that this is not an issue for, I don't think that's the main obstacle.

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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby addams » Sat May 04, 2013 3:43 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
elasto wrote:Where would they go? They can't go into the US, they don't have passports, and I assume the President doesn't have the power to issue those. And in many cases their home countries don't want them either. But, really, for those that have been held for a decade plus without enough evidence being gathered to convict them of any crime, their countries should be paid to take them back and they should be paid large amounts of compensation so they can make some attempt to restore their broken lives.


Yemen wants theirs, and that's what, half of them? It'd be fairly understandable if there were a coupla prisoners left over who were fellows without a country, but given that there's plenty that this is not an issue for, I don't think that's the main obstacle.

They can not be dropped off Homeless and Alone.
Move some of those zeros around and let these men Live.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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sardia
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby sardia » Sat May 04, 2013 4:14 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
elasto wrote:Where would they go? They can't go into the US, they don't have passports, and I assume the President doesn't have the power to issue those. And in many cases their home countries don't want them either. But, really, for those that have been held for a decade plus without enough evidence being gathered to convict them of any crime, their countries should be paid to take them back and they should be paid large amounts of compensation so they can make some attempt to restore their broken lives.


Yemen wants theirs, and that's what, half of them? It'd be fairly understandable if there were a coupla prisoners left over who were fellows without a country, but given that there's plenty that this is not an issue for, I don't think that's the main obstacle.

I believe the Obama administration, the more willing of the two factions, wants to have between parole and secret police always watching them. That's a precondition of release on the ones deemed safe. aka not a terrorist

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Kulantan
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Kulantan » Sat May 04, 2013 4:27 pm UTC

Well it would be very embarrassing if they participated in an anti-American attack. Hell, it would be embarrassing if they acted as a rallying symbol of anti-American political sentiment in their countries. Without guarantees that these people, who have been illegally locked away for years, won't think angry thoughts at America and potentially cause harm to the Democrats' (or Republicans') election chances, I don't see how they can be released.
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Blog.

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PeteP
What the peck?
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby PeteP » Sat May 04, 2013 10:57 pm UTC

You know they could just shoot everyone in Gitmo, one part of the people already consider Gitmo horrible, and you can't make that impression much worse. The people who are all "there is no smoke without fire, they were imprisoned for a reason!" will cheer because dead "terrorists". And the people who don't particularly care might react negatively but would soon return to not caring. And after that Gitmo would be history and with time it would be forgotten.

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sardia
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby sardia » Sat May 04, 2013 11:04 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:You know they could just shoot everyone in Gitmo, one part of the people already consider Gitmo horrible, and you can't make that impression much worse. The people who are all "there is no smoke without fire, they were imprisoned for a reason!" will cheer because dead "terrorists". And the people who don't particularly care might react negatively but would soon return to not caring. And after that Gitmo would be history and with time it would be forgotten.

Except that would killing innocent people, who aren't innocent, well they kinda are, and it would be a violation of their not so guaranteed rights, you know, if they were people.

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addams
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby addams » Sat May 04, 2013 11:53 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
PeteP wrote:You know they could just shoot everyone in Gitmo, one part of the people already consider Gitmo horrible, and you can't make that impression much worse. The people who are all "there is no smoke without fire, they were imprisoned for a reason!" will cheer because dead "terrorists". And the people who don't particularly care might react negatively but would soon return to not caring. And after that Gitmo would be history and with time it would be forgotten.

Except that would killing innocent people, who aren't innocent, well they kinda are, and it would be a violation of their not so guaranteed rights, you know, if they were people.

Is it True? I am not sure a thing is true until I have seen it.
Even after I have seen a thing I do not always know what I have seen.

I have heard some stories about Gitmo.
Are 'The Stories' True?

What The Fuck? Children!
Allow me to Recap.

The US has had a Black Site on Cuban Soil for most of Fifteen Years.

Cuba is OK with That Shit!? There is a Problem.
Cuba! Really? Cuba is Good With That?

Does Cuba know? You and I may think we know.
Does Cuba Know? Do you have their e-mail address?

From a distance the US is a bunch of Mean Old White Men and a black Prisoner in Chief.

What is Cuba? People having a Tropical Party while other people are being held in Cages.
No one person can take responsibility for all the good nor all the bad in The World.

Cuba is not That Large.
It does have People.
The Cuban People can go to that Place.

It would be Dangerous.
The Americans kill without apparent reason.
Americans are Human. Humans have a Dark History.

Hey! I can Not be The Only Person that has a Problem with Cuba doing Nothing.

Would The Dutch be ok with a Black Site?
A Dutch Black Site is a well kept secret, if it exists.

Why are The Cubans OK with This Shit?
Is it, just, a marketing campaign?
Gitmo is no more Real that Orange Dinosaurs?

Why are some of these thing So?
It is so; Americans can not go to Cuba.
It is so; Americans have a prison in Cuba.

It is so; Cuba is a little Loser Island.
It is so; Cuba has become a little satellite of the US the way it was before.(?)

oh! oh! What if? What if, Americans and American Foreign Policy are not as Stupid as they seem?
What if this is part of a long term plan?
What could The Plan be?

I have no idea. Is The Plan to make the People of Cuba feel like part of something larger than themselves?
That one can go both ways. Proud? Proud to be Helpful and useful?

Shame and Fear. Ashamed of what happened at Gitmo?
Afraid it might happen to her own People.

The World does not make sense to me.
Communists. Communists are a Bunch of Losers.
Cubans are Communists. Like Americans are Capitalists.
They may not be good at it. Still.

Communists. I read some stuff and talked to some Communists.
What I was told is Communists have high ideals.

They are only an ideals. Communists are human, too.

How much is The US paying Cuba?
Cuba is a little Loser Island they need and want money.
The US was punishing Cuba for a while.
Now it is not paying for Grand Hotels.
Now it is Paying for Gitmo.

Does this seem like a Made Up story to you?
What? Will the US drop a H-Bomb if Cuba says "No."

The US has dropped and H-Bomb on an Island nation in the past.
One way to predict future behavior is to examine past behavior.

Poor all of US. The US is a fucked up Neighbor.
Do you think it is Fucked Up living next door/
Think about living Inside this criminally functional nation.

Hey! World! Do your people brag about Torture?
Mine do. On the Streets and in Cafes and on TV.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Mambrino
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Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Mambrino » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:24 pm UTC


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addams
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Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby addams » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:01 pm UTC

Mambrino wrote:Guardian has a video made by Reprieve:

Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure


I did not watch the Film.
I am medical personal.

I have had an NG tube placed in My Body.
It is necessary sometimes. I did not Like it. The Nurse did not Like it.
It was required to save my Life. It was Not putting in it was Taking out.

I had Colic like a Horse. I know! People don't get that. I did.

That is beside The Point. What can we do? What can I do?
I know for a Fact that placeing an NG tube without the Patient's consent is Torture!
That is against The Law! What can I do To Help!

ok, They Changed the Law. They did not change my Mind. Where do I sign up?
What can I do To Help?!

Is this stuff True? Or; is this a Way to Upset the Gullible?
Am I simply Gullible and I am allowing Fiction on The Internet to effect my Life?

Who Know? There is So very much stuff on The Internet.

I did not watch the clip.
Other medical personal that have a higher tolerance for medical procedures can tell if it is true.
Some of those procedures were very uncommon.

Torture had gone out of Style for a While.
Back with a vengeance?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Heisenberg
Posts: 3789
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:48 pm UTC
Location: Uncertain

Re: Guantanamo Hunger Strike

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

Mambrino wrote:Guardian has a video made by Reprieve:

Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

That was horrific. I was told we were done torturing people.


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