1149: Broomstick

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1149: Broomstick

Postby drummerpatch » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:08 am UTC

Image

Alt-text: 'Broom first, then slippers.' 'How do I know you'll return the broom once you've secured your ticket?' 'I'll leave my little dog as collateral.' 'Great. Pleasure doing business!'

I honestly never understood why nobody wanted to give her the slippers. I mean...they're her dead sisters, the family's entitled to the property. Really, Dorothy's just a thief.
Last edited by drummerpatch on Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:56 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:12 am UTC

Wearing black-and-white striped socks with ruby slippers? Talk about wicked.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Jorpho » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:26 am UTC

If I'm not mistaken, the wizard never asked for the Witch's broom in the movie, did he? He just asked Dorothy to kill her, and the broom ended up being a convenient bit of proof.

And obviously we're talking about the movie here, since the book featured silver shoes and not ruby slippers.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby phlip » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:54 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the wizard never asked for the Witch's broom in the movie, did he? He just asked Dorothy to kill her, and the broom ended up being a convenient bit of proof.

The movie wrote:Oz: The beneficent Oz has every intention of granting your requests!

[...]

Oz: But first, you must prove yourselves worthy by performing a very small task. Bring me the broomstick of the Witch of the West.

Tin Man: B-B-B-B-B-But if we do that, we'll have to kill her to get it!

Oz: Bring me her broomstick, and I'll grant your requests. Now, go!

Lion: But... but what if she kills us first?

Oz: I said Go!

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Blueluck » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:56 am UTC

I do a lot plot writing for games, and once you're used to writing for groups of intelligent people who will arrive at the most efficient answer, it's surprising how many TV & Movie plots would be easily short-circuited if the characters were paying attention.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby chridd » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:00 am UTC

The book doesn't say anything about a broomstick (at least not in the relevant chapters, and assuming that WikiSource's version of the book is accurate).
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby nykevin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:00 am UTC

It is, of course, a plot point that the slippers cannot be removed.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:15 am UTC

If she had the slippers, would she really need the broomstick? I mean, it's just a broomstick. I'm sure it'd take the witch maybe an hour or so to get another.

But leaving Toto totally defeats the the symbology and parallelism between the world of Oz and Kansas.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Oddstar » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:30 am UTC

chridd wrote:The book doesn't say anything about a broomstick (at least not in the relevant chapters, and assuming that WikiSource's version of the book is accurate).

That is correct. In the book, the wizard tells her very clearly "you must kill the Wicked Witch of the West." They cleaned it up for the movie, but in the book, the wizard has no interest in the broomstick; he wants the witch dead, and he hires Dorothy to do it.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby TimXCampbell » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:30 am UTC

This approach really shortens the Oz series.

Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead , rowing out to sea and chucking it over the side. (Do hobbits know anything about plate tectonics? I'm thinking subduction zone.)

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Oddstar » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:33 am UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:This approach really shortens the Oz series.

Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead , rowing out to sea and chucking it over the side. (Do hobbits know anything about plate tectonics? I'm thinking subduction zone.)

At the council at Rivendell, they expressly discuss dropping the Ring into the ocean, but reject the idea, precisely because that wouldn't guarantee that it would never be found again. In fact, it would guarantee that, in the very long run, it definitely would be found again, precisely because landmasses move over time.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby da Doctah » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:37 am UTC

nykevin wrote:It is, of course, a plot point that the slippers cannot be removed.

Not only that, but even if the plot point is that the slippers cannot be removed "against her will", we all know that no woman would willingly give up a pair of shoes, so this comic could never happen.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:39 am UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:This approach really shortens the Oz series.

Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead , rowing out to sea and chucking it over the side. (Do hobbits know anything about plate tectonics? I'm thinking subduction zone.)


Two of the Silmarils were lost forever in those sorts of ways (one in the open sea and one down a volcanic fissure of some sort... it's been a while and the Silmarillion is a chore to read). Those things were even more valued by even more people back then than the One Ring was in the Third Age. (Sauron's boss stole them way back before the dawning of the first day, and pretty much the entire world moved heaven and earth fighting him for untold millennia trying to get them back; the only one that wasn't lost per se is now on the bow of a magical ship sailing the sky, better known to us the Morning/Evening Star, and some captured light from it is what Galadriel gave Frodo in that vial which made the spider Shelob freak out and stay away from him. They in turn shine with the light of the primordial trees of which the sun and moon are mere fruits. We're talking old, powerful magic here.) So if it worked for them it should damn well have worked for the Ring.

Just offer Bilbo that trip to Aman that he gets at the end anyway, and chuck the ring overboard on the way there. Problem solved. (Well, there's still disempowered-Sauron's armies to fight by conventional means, but he'll have lost his superweapon for good).
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby armandoalvarez » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:58 am UTC

I thought the Wizard wanted the broomstick because he wanted to go fly it back to our world.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby bachaddict » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:20 am UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead , rowing out to sea and chucking it over the side. (Do hobbits know anything about plate tectonics? I'm thinking subduction zone.)


Remember that all Sauron's constructions were held together by the power of the ring's existence.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby taemyr » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:17 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Two of the Silmarils were lost forever in those sorts of ways (one in the open sea and one down a volcanic fissure of some sort... it's been a while and the Silmarillion is a chore to read). Those things were even more valued by even more people back then than the One Ring was in the Third Age. (Sauron's boss stole them way back before the dawning of the first day, and pretty much the entire world moved heaven and earth fighting him for untold millennia trying to get them back; the only one that wasn't lost per se is now on the bow of a magical ship sailing the sky, better known to us the Morning/Evening Star, and some captured light from it is what Galadriel gave Frodo in that vial which made the spider Shelob freak out and stay away from him. They in turn shine with the light of the primordial trees of which the sun and moon are mere fruits. We're talking old, powerful magic here.) So if it worked for them it should damn well have worked for the Ring.

Just offer Bilbo that trip to Aman that he gets at the end anyway, and chuck the ring overboard on the way there. Problem solved. (Well, there's still disempowered-Sauron's armies to fight by conventional means, but he'll have lost his superweapon for good).


The relevant difference between the ring and the Silmarils is that the ring will want to work itself back into history. That is the reason that the council believes that it will, rather than just might, return.

Also while the silmarils have been lost a very long time, with no reason to believe they will be back within any set amount of time. They have, of course, not been lost forever.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby ijuin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:21 am UTC

The One Ring will manage to return from inaccessibility one way or another because it is not a mere passive object--it embodies Sauron's will and WANTS to be worn by somebody who can become a servant of Sauron. It will outright attract people to go out and seek it even if they don't know about it. Drop it into the sea? The ring will inspire somebody to invent deep-diving equipment to retrieve it. Drop it into a lesser volcano than the Crack of Doom, hoping to encase it deep beneath lava? Somebody will be inspired to go mining in the right spot as soon as the lava cools enough. Nothing short of hurling it into the SUN would make it inaccessible enough to substitute for destroying it.

On the Witch of the West's flying broomstick, the Wizard indeed did not want the actual broom--he wanted proof of her demise, and an object that she would not give up short of losing a fight would make a reasonable piece of evidence. After all, as the Wizard put it, who better to send to kill the Witch of the West than the person who had already killed the Witch of the East?

On the Ruby/Silver slippers, they would have made the Witch of the West even more powerful, so it was in everybody else's interest to prevent that. As long as Dorothy wore them, the Witch of the West would be unable to actually kill her. In the book, the Witch enslaves her for a period of weeks instead because she can not kill her and take the shoes, and instead waits for Dorothy to take them off so that she can steal them, but Dorothy slept with the shoes on and only took them off for bathing (which the Witch kept away from, being sensitive to water and all).

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:35 am UTC

Also while the silmarils have been lost a very long time, with no reason to believe they will be back within any set amount of time. They have, of course, not been lost forever.

The prophecy is that they will remain lost until Dagor Dagorath, that only when the world is broken and remade will they be recovered. That sounds as close to "lost forever" as possible to me -- lost until the end of the world.

taemyr wrote:The relevant difference between the ring and the Silmarils is that the ring will want to work itself back into history. That is the reason that the council believes that it will, rather than just might, return.

The ring works its way back by manipulating people, though, bending them to do its will. It still requires people able to do what it wants. If it were so lost that even the Valar couldn't recover it without reshaping the world, then it would be lost until then... and if it were capable of calling to the Valar and bending them to its will enough to get them to do that at its whim, well, it could have done so already and accomplished much worse than anything Sauron evidently dreamed of. If the Ring could just call Manwe out of the west to drain the Great River and sift its sands until he found the Ring and became a servant of Sauron, I'm pretty sure it would have just done that rather than wait for a crazy river-folk to come fish it out three thousand years later.

(Also remember that the Silmarils are of near infinite worth even to the Valar themselves, as with them the light of the Two Trees could be rekindled. If they can wait until the end of the world to recover something that desirable, the call of the Ring is nothing in comparison).
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby blowfishhootie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:53 am UTC

Hiding the ring, rather than destroying it, would not have guaranteed victory the way destroying it did. It has been several years since I read the books, but I watch the movies often, so forgive me if there is a key difference between the two I'm overlooking, but in the movies the army of Mordor have the heroes on the brink, about to be defeated, even without Sauron gaining access to the ring (though that is because the chose to charge the black gate, which I realize they wouldn't have done without the ring there to destroy; still, they could have lost the war in the long run). But as soon as the ring is destroyed, so to is Sauron, and his army flees, having lost its will to fight or something. They could have hidden the ring as you describe and still could very well have lost the war.

Even if they won that war, without defeating Sauron permanently they would have risked something of a constant state of war. They thought they had Sauron defeated permanently once despite the ring's continued existence, and they were wrong. Destroying the ring was the only way to make sure Sauron would never bother them again.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:05 am UTC

About tossing the One Ring deep in the ocean, this option is considered and dismissed (as someone pointed out already) during the Council of Elrond. The catch is:
- Even without the One Ring, there was a clear possibility of Sauron winning the War of the Ring at end of the Third Age;
- Considering that Sauron somehow loses the War, as long as the One Ring still exists, he is never going to be truly defeated. He will eventually gather his shit together and come back for one more round of sweet Middle-Earth-ass-kicking;

EDIT: ninja'ed by blowfishhootie, but leaving the post here anyway.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Klear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:09 am UTC

PolakoVoador wrote:- Considering that Sauron somehow loses the War, as long as the One Ring still exists, he is never going to be truly defeated. He will eventually gather his shit together and come back for one more round of sweet Middle-Earth-ass-kicking;


Makes me wonder why Sauron didn't toss the ring into the ocean himself? =P

In any case, I'm sure if you were to drop The Ring in the ocean, some sort of giant fish would swallow it immediately, then get itself caught sooner or later.

Also, I was quite disappointed when I realized this comic is about the Wizard of Oz and not Army of Darkness... I thought it said "Boomstick" =(

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:24 am UTC

Klear wrote:
PolakoVoador wrote:- Considering that Sauron somehow loses the War, as long as the One Ring still exists, he is never going to be truly defeated. He will eventually gather his shit together and come back for one more round of sweet Middle-Earth-ass-kicking;


Makes me wonder why Sauron didn't toss the ring into the ocean himself? =P


Well, it's not like Sauron had a good time being almost destroyed and spending some thounsands hardly existing. He definetly didin't want to risk this kind of shit happening ever again, so recovery of the One Ring was high on his TO-DO list. Also, Sauron was afraid that his enemies would figure out some way to use the power of the One Ring against him, so not tossing it into the ocean was the best couse of action.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby blowfishhootie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:33 am UTC

Also, as Gandalf points out at some point, it has never occurred to Sauron that anyone in Middle Earth would get the idea to destroy the ring, presumably because Sauron assumes all the inhabitants of Middle Earth are too weak-willed to not submit to the ring's advances (which in the end is not disproved, actually, though Frodo held out for quite a while).

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby EpicanicusStrikes » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:50 am UTC

TimXCampbell wrote:Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead...

As has been pointed out, dropping it into the ocean probably wouldn't work. However...

A key threat of the Ring itself is the danger of it actually being used. Just putting it on one's finger seems to be a hazard faced throughout the entire journey. Now, while it was probably powerful enough to resist being encased in lead, why not cast it in a blob of mithril? It'll be unharmed and still hanging around, but at least nobody would ever actually be able to wear the damn thing whle they schlepp to Mordor.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby blowfishhootie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:57 am UTC

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
TimXCampbell wrote:Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead...

As has been pointed out, dropping it into the ocean probably wouldn't work. However...

A key threat of the Ring itself is the danger of it actually being used. Just putting it on one's finger seems to be a hazard faced throughout the entire journey. Now, while it was probably powerful enough to resist being encased in lead, why not cast it in a blob of mithril? It'll be unharmed and still hanging around, but at least nobody would ever actually be able to wear the damn thing whle they schlepp to Mordor.


Wasn't mithril pretty hard to come by by the time of the LOTR trilogy? According to Wikipedia it was:

"In Tolkien's Middle-earth, mithril is extremely rare by the end of the Third Age, as it was now found only in Khazad-dûm. Once the Balrog destroyed the kingdom of the Dwarves at Khazad-dûm, the only source of new mithril ore was cut off. Before Moria was abandoned by the Dwarves, while it was still being actively mined, mithril was worth ten times its weight in gold. After the Dwarves abandoned Moria and production of new mithril stopped entirely, it became priceless."

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby ijuin » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:01 pm UTC

Presumably, Sauron believed that anybody who thought to destroy the ring would fail because any who touch it would succumb to the temptation to use it instead. After all, the tale of the forging of the Great Rings described Men (humans) as those "who desire power above all else".

It's a pity that Tolkien didn't clearly address the point of whether wearing or touching the ring directly was necessary for it to begin corrupting a person, or if mere proximity is enough. If touching/wearing it was significant, then special effort to avoid touching it with bare skin would have been warranted. Encasing it in something solid, with just enough of a hole through the center of the ring to thread a heavy enough chain through to keep it from getting lost, would probably have been a good idea. On the other hand, the whole "the ring changes sizes to fit whoever holds it" aspect might let it simply shatter any rigid material in which it might be encased.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:11 pm UTC

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
TimXCampbell wrote:Now, then, if we can come up with a way for Bilbo Baggins to make The One Ring inaccessible instead of destroying it, we can save ourselves all kinds of time. I'm thinking about encasing it in lead...

As has been pointed out, dropping it into the ocean probably wouldn't work. However...

A key threat of the Ring itself is the danger of it actually being used. Just putting it on one's finger seems to be a hazard faced throughout the entire journey. Now, while it was probably powerful enough to resist being encased in lead, why not cast it in a blob of mithril? It'll be unharmed and still hanging around, but at least nobody would ever actually be able to wear the damn thing whle they schlepp to Mordor.


Mithril is really good at resisting blunt force (and stabby) hits, but its totally... meltable (is this even a word?). If someone is able to melt Mithril in order to craft such encasing, you can be damn sure Sauron is as well. And since only the fires of Mount Doom can harm the Ring, Sauron is pretty safe to melt the encasing with any other forge strong enough to melt Mithril.

EDIT: ok, now I understand your post. You're suggesting the Mithril encasing not for perpetual protection, but just as a mean of safe transportation to Mount Doom. It's an interesting idea, but Mithril was very very very very rare at the time (and nobody knew about Frodo's during the Council). Other than that, Frodo and Sam would probably die without the Ring's invisibility stuff before they could get to Mount Doom.
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Klear » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:18 pm UTC

wikipedia wrote:(...) mithril was worth ten times its weight in gold (...)


This sounds much less impressive once you realize that mithril was extremely light, IIRC.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:31 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:Presumably, Sauron believed that anybody who thought to destroy the ring would fail because any who touch it would succumb to the temptation to use it instead. After all, the tale of the forging of the Great Rings described Men (humans) as those "who desire power above all else".

It's a pity that Tolkien didn't clearly address the point of whether wearing or touching the ring directly was necessary for it to begin corrupting a person, or if mere proximity is enough. If touching/wearing it was significant, then special effort to avoid touching it with bare skin would have been warranted. Encasing it in something solid, with just enough of a hole through the center of the ring to thread a heavy enough chain through to keep it from getting lost, would probably have been a good idea. On the other hand, the whole "the ring changes sizes to fit whoever holds it" aspect might let it simply shatter any rigid material in which it might be encased.


Boromir was corrupted by the Ring. Galadriel and Faramir were lured by it but resisted. Simply knowing it's there seems to be enough to give it a way in...

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby EpicanicusStrikes » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:59 pm UTC

blowfishhootie wrote:Wasn't mithril pretty hard to come by by the time of the LOTR trilogy?

I'm sure the elves had a trinket or two they could have reforged into some sort of encasement.

But now I'm wondering how many times it was more helpful for the ring to be worn than harmful. It tended to draw the attention of Sauron and the wraiths. It was no help whatsoever on Weathertop. It led to near disastor at the crack of doom itself.

When did wearing the ring help more than it hindered by sending off a flare? When Frodo managed to get away from a corrupted Boromir?

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby applejuicefool » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:03 pm UTC

The problem with this comic's plan is simply this: Dorothy missed the balloon because she jumped off it to get Toto. Therefore, she would never have given him as collateral as the alt-text suggests, and she still needs the slippers to get home after this inevitable plot twist occurs.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Whizbang » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:44 pm UTC

A note on why Sauron is unwilling to just cast the ring into the sea, as a method to ensure his continued survival, aside from those mentioned above.

If someone like Galadriel, Gandalf, Elrond, or Saruman wore the ring, they would be able to battle Sauron directly, and possibly defeat him through strength alone. They would not become his servants. They WOULD be corrupted by the ring, and become as bad as Sauron, but not Sauron's slaves. Remember, Sauron was genuinely concerned/distressed that Sarumon would get the ring from the two captured hobbits. And the whole point of the attack on the Black Gates was that is was sooooo stupid to do, unless Gandalf had the Ring. So, Gandalf and company attack the gates, which convinces Sauron that Gandalf has the Ring. Sauron focuses all his attention and forces on the attack on the Black Gates. Frodo and Sam slip past and destroy the ring. If the Ring merely enslaved the wearer to Sauron's will, he would have just opened the gates and let Gandalf in.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby mathmannix » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:45 pm UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:I thought the Wizard wanted the broomstick because he wanted to go fly it back to our world.


I don't think the wizard really wanted to go back to our world. He was willing to take Dorothy there to help her out at the end of the movie, but he surely had plenty of other opportunities to fly a balloon back to Kansas (if that's possible, but I guess he just had to go back over a rainbow? or get caught in a twister again?) No, he was the ruler of a powerful city-state, and just wanted to have his enemy to the West killed, so that he could annex her land *.

Come to think of it, did the wizard get back to Kansas in the balloon after it took off without Dorothy, or did it just crash somewhere else in Oz?

* - Probably to use the Munchkin habitants therein for Oompa-Loompa-like slave labor!

Edit: Oh wait, no, the Munchkins lived in the East. Oh well.
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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby blowfishhootie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:49 pm UTC

EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
blowfishhootie wrote:Wasn't mithril pretty hard to come by by the time of the LOTR trilogy?

I'm sure the elves had a trinket or two they could have reforged into some sort of encasement.

But now I'm wondering how many times it was more helpful for the ring to be worn than harmful. It tended to draw the attention of Sauron and the wraiths. It was no help whatsoever on Weathertop. It led to near disastor at the crack of doom itself.

When did wearing the ring help more than it hindered by sending off a flare? When Frodo managed to get away from a corrupted Boromir?


It helped Bilbo get away from Gollum and escape the cave during their meeting and subsequent riddle contest. I've never read anything outside of the LOTR trilogy or the Hobbit, so there might be something outside those books that contradicts this, but based on those books presumably Bilbo used the ring at least a small number of times while it was in his possession without any apparent ill consequences, as at his birthday celebration. But then suddenly every time Frodo put on the ring, it was like a direct link to Sauron and/or his wraiths, as you said. That always bothered me about the movies (again, it's been a while since I read the books, not sure if it is true in them).

Then of course there's Tom Bombadil, who didn't exactly gain any benefit from wearing the ring, but felt no ill consequences either.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby EpicanicusStrikes » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:56 pm UTC

blowfishhootie wrote:
EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
blowfishhootie wrote:Wasn't mithril pretty hard to come by by the time of the LOTR trilogy?

I'm sure the elves had a trinket or two they could have reforged into some sort of encasement.

But now I'm wondering how many times it was more helpful for the ring to be worn than harmful. It tended to draw the attention of Sauron and the wraiths. It was no help whatsoever on Weathertop. It led to near disastor at the crack of doom itself.

When did wearing the ring help more than it hindered by sending off a flare? When Frodo managed to get away from a corrupted Boromir?


It helped Bilbo get away from Gollum and escape the cave during their meeting and subsequent riddle contest. I've never read anything outside of the LOTR trilogy or the Hobbit, so there might be something outside those books that contradicts this, but based on those books presumably Bilbo used the ring at least a small number of times while it was in his possession without any apparent ill consequences, as at his birthday celebration. But then suddenly every time Frodo put on the ring, it was like a direct link to Sauron and/or his wraiths, as you said. That always bothered me about the movies (again, it's been a while since I read the books, not sure if it is true in them).

Then of course there's Tom Bombadil, who didn't exactly gain any benefit from wearing the ring, but felt no ill consequences either.

It always seemed like the ring was sleeping during the Hobbit. Sure, it'd started working on its own quest to return to its proper master, but the thing didn't really wake up and get angry until its own destruction loomed.

Actually, it always seemed like kind of a dick move that Sauron lost it in the first place. The semi-sentient piece of malevolance was always perfectly happy to accidentally slip away from whoever owned it. Including the guy who made it.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby MarvinM » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:00 pm UTC

Odd comic as it requires the reader know the story but not know that the wizard of oz is fake, incompetent and the slippers are the only way back home.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Yoduh » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:19 pm UTC

MarvinM wrote:Odd comic as it requires the reader know the story but not know that the wizard of oz is fake, incompetent and the slippers are the only way back home.


actually since the comic is the movie version, and the movie version of oz is a dream, there could have been many ways for dorothy to get back home, including jumping off a cliff and killing herself to wake herself back up.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:22 pm UTC

Yoduh wrote:[...] there could have been many ways for dorothy to get back home, including jumping off a cliff and killing herself to wake herself back up.

I tried that in a dream once (I must have known it was a dream, I guess). I just landed in the sea (which was only about ankle-deep) unscathed.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Jorpho » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:34 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:Come to think of it, did the wizard get back to Kansas in the balloon after it took off without Dorothy, or did it just crash somewhere else in Oz?
In the original books, he comes back after that whole unrelated business with Ozma and the Nome King (rather loosely retold in Return to Oz). I can't quite recall if he spends time in North America in between.

ijuin wrote:The One Ring will manage to return from inaccessibility one way or another because it is not a mere passive object--it embodies Sauron's will and WANTS to be worn by somebody who can become a servant of Sauron. It will outright attract people to go out and seek it even if they don't know about it. Drop it into the sea? The ring will inspire somebody to invent deep-diving equipment to retrieve it. Drop it into a lesser volcano than the Crack of Doom, hoping to encase it deep beneath lava? Somebody will be inspired to go mining in the right spot as soon as the lava cools enough. Nothing short of hurling it into the SUN would make it inaccessible enough to substitute for destroying it.
How delightful, to imagine the One Ring spurring on the entire Industrial Revolution due to being properly disposed of.

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Re: 1149: Broomstick

Postby Barstro » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:44 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:And obviously we're talking about the movie here, since the book featured silver shoes and not ruby slippers.


I swear I read the original book as a teen and the silver shoes inexplicably became ruby slippers. Not that anything happened to them; just one moment she was wearing silver shoes and the next moment she was wearing ruby. I remember wondering what that had to do with the silver-standard debate.


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