1072: " Seventies"

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VanI
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby VanI » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:26 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Kristopher wrote:Unless you lived in a very remote part of the US, you had touchtone service.
Nonsense, unless you just mean that the network was capable of routing touch-tone dialing. Touch tone phones didn't outnumber rotary phones until at least the end of the 1970s.

Also, I lived in a small town but not "a very remote part" of the country, and we didn't get a touch-tone capable phone line until the late 1990s. (We likely could have earlier than that, but didn't see the need until getting a dedicated line for the computer.)


I remember in the '90s having a touch-tone phone, but having to plug it into an adapter that would convert the DTMF tones into pulses because the local switching equipment hadn't yet been upgraded. If I remember correctly, we actually had to plug our modem into one.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby webdude » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:43 am UTC

rcox1 wrote:Rockford Files, 1974-1980

"This is Jim Rockford. At the tone, leave your name and message. I'll get back to you. [Beep]"
Followed by a joke message.

Despite what most kids think, we did not live in caves prior to their birth and then magically achieve civilization.

I will also, as a public service, mention Charlie's Angels, 1976-1981 and the car phone.

These were not particularly good shows, but were popular and did educate the populous on these technologies even if they did not use them in day to day life.

It is a funny comic, just needs to be pushed back 10 or 20 years, to a time when technology of any matter did in fact not exist and people could magically solve problems. For example Bewitched 1964-1972.


The Good: Good examples!

The Bad: If you want to educate the populace, you should use the correct word.

The Great: The alt-text had already made me think of one of my favorite A. C. Clarke quotes, and you also brought up the subject of magical thinking.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

One of Heinlein's quotes is also apropos: ""One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.""

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:31 am UTC

Coyne wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:Why did the change the shape of the letter depending on where it was? That ſeems needlessly confusing.


Yes. It's just as confusing as to why we sometimes use "Q" instead of "q" in our text. Needlessly confusing.


yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby MotorToad » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:38 am UTC

Not really contributing to the thread, but damn, this comic made me guffaw for the first time in a long time. And it did it twice. Bravo.

You can have your new-fangled letters, but you'll pry my capital letters out of my cold, dead hands. :P
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:12 am UTC

The guy from 1974 could have just whistled the right tone. How many people knew the proper tone-sounds?

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby Plutarch » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:39 am UTC

trentblase wrote:Uh, are there any wireless carriers that make you press 1 to leave a message? Only the crankiest commercial machines do this, in my experience.

That's what I've been thinking. Usually the voice on the answering machine just says 'Leave a message after the tone.' I don't think I've ever had to 'press 1' before leaving a message.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby poxic » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:19 am UTC

Multi-user answering machines will have a "press [n] to leave a message for [person X]" thing, plus a general mailbox if you just wait until the beep.

Maybe the guys had a multi-user answering machine.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby xiander » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:43 am UTC

willaaaaaa wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:
willaaaaaa wrote:
SerMufasa wrote:
xiander wrote:I just noticed now that seventies guy is not wearing a jacket. :)


You have to read the first panel carefully. "Nice Jacket" is followed by a period, not a dash (or semi-colon or whatever else you might want to use). So he's saying "Nice Jacket" to someone off-screen - and means it. Then the next part is the "Hey - The 1970s called". The two comments are only related by proximity, not meaning, which is part of the joke.


Nope. "Hey, the ____________ called" is a typical way of making fun of someone's anachronistic behavior/style. So, the speaker is making fun of the off-screen person's jacket for being really 70s-esque.


No, the joke is that that's what you're supposed to think, until you see what follows...


Right, right. Apologies, I was being sloppy in my thinking and misunderstood what SerMufasa meant. :oops:


I can't know what the intention behind the "nice jacket" comment was.
Still I find it slightly humorous that the seventies guy is clearly wearing pants, but not clearly wearing a jacket.

It could be that it's a coincidence and that the whole strip is about the difference in phones. But I see no clear proof that the speaker must mean the "nice Jacket" in the first panel.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby OP Tipping » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:27 am UTC

So would a rotary phone still work on modern networks?

If you dialed 1, would the voicemail accept this as pressing 1?
a) Please explain the specific MEDICAL reason for ordering this MEDICATION !
b) Please state the nature of your ailment or injury.
c) One a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your pain?
d) Please state the nature of the medical emergency.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby Ptolom » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:59 am UTC

My Grandma still had a rotary phone until about 5 years ago.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby dwasifar » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:01 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:11 pm UTC

dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?


part of an archaic code i use for user names. ignore it and maybe someday it will go away.
Last edited by J Thomas on Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:43 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby dwasifar » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:14 pm UTC

xiander wrote:I can't know what the intention behind the "nice jacket" comment was.


Sure you can, because everybody's explained it. :)

Let me try to sum it up again.

A common way of insulting someone's dated taste in clothing (or anything, really) is to say, "Hey, the [period] called, they want their [item] back." Hence, in this case, "Hey, the seventies called, they want their jacket back." A more oblique way of putting it, to people familiar with the joke, is "Nice jacket. Hey, the seventies called." Which is what Randall did, making us think he was doing the standard joke, and then took the joke into a humorous and unexpected new direction by suddenly making it be about an ACTUAL phone call from the 1970s. The change in direction is the point of the joke.

This kind of joke is called a paraprosdokian, which, according to our friends at Wikipedia,

"...is a figure of speech in which the latter part of a sentence or phrase is surprising or unexpected in a way that causes the reader or listener to reframe or reinterpret the first part. It is frequently used for humorous or dramatic effect, sometimes producing an anticlimax. For this reason, it is extremely popular among comedians and satirists."

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby dwasifar » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:15 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?


Part of an archaic code I use for user names. Ignore it and maybe someday it will go away.


but then what are the other strange symbols in front of "art" and "gnore" in your reply? surely those are symbols of witchcraft!

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby philip1201 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:25 pm UTC

dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?


Part of an archaic code I use for user names. Ignore it and maybe someday it will go away.


but then what are the other strange symbols in front of "art" and "gnore" in your reply? surely those are symbols of witchcraft!


you forgot the one between "code" and "use".

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby hurax » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:07 pm UTC

Registered becaused the alt-text made me smile. Though my experience of the seventies was very limited with being in a womb and all, the long s and its correct use (not at the end of a syllable) in an English comic surprised me. I learned Sütterlin handwriting as a child from my grandmother, which along with Fraktur letters distinguished between long and short s, before both were outlawed in the third empire. Yet for a strange reason we still kept the ligature of long s and z in the form of "ß", except for the more pragmatic Swiss Germans. But reading Swiss newspapers sometimes shortly confuses me, when I start reading "buses" instead of "fine, penalty" (Busse/Buße).

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:56 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:The guy from 1974 could have just whistled the right tone. How many people knew the proper tone-sounds?
Not all that many, and fewer still are likely capable of properly producing the *two* necessary frequencies at the same time.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:41 pm UTC

dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?


Part of an archaic code I use for user names. Ignore it and maybe someday it will go away.


but then what are the other strange symbols in front of "art" and "gnore" in your reply? surely those are symbols of witchcraft!


no, just force of habit. if i get serious about it i'll replace my keyset with one that prints lower case letters whether i use the shift key or not. then i can indulge my old-fashioned habits all i want without embarrassment.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:42 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?


Part of an archaic code I use for user names. Ignore it and maybe someday it will go away.


but then what are the other strange symbols in front of "art" and "gnore" in your reply? surely those are symbols of witchcraft!


no, just force of habit. if i get serious about it i'll replace my keyset with one that prints lower case letters whether i use the shift key or not. then i can indulge my old-fashioned habits all i want without embarrassment.


Tear off your shift key. Problem solved!
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:52 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
dwasifar wrote:
J Thomas wrote:yes! so for spelling reform, a good small first step could be to just stop using capital letters. it's easy. it's understandable. just do it, and the more that people copy you the more it succeeds.


what are those two strange symbols at the beginning of your username, homas?


Part of an archaic code I use for user names. Ignore it and maybe someday it will go away.


but then what are the other strange symbols in front of "art" and "gnore" in your reply? surely those are symbols of witchcraft!


no, just force of habit. if i get serious about it i'll replace my keyset with one that prints lower case letters whether i use the shift key or not. then i can indulge my old-fashioned habits all i want without embarrassment.


Tear off your shift key. Problem solved!


i probably want to keep the shift key to type ~!@#$%^&*()_+|}{":L?><

but if i wind up with a 46 letter phonetic alphabet, then i won't have any bad capitalization habits and i'll have 48 keys that can be shifted to get special characters. plus a numeric keypad and a bunch of function keys. plus the spacebar and shifted spacebar.

probably wire the caps lock key to switch to a different alphabet altogether.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby corinb » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:00 pm UTC

This is hillarious but has no-one noticed this is just as true if you are using Skype? So much for progress....

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby kissemjolk » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:48 am UTC

So, the term "wherefore" does mean "why". While "whence" would make sense, meaning "From where is this infernal contraption?"... I'm more apt to imagine that Randall intended "What is this infernal contraption?"

Any ways nifty little piece of help for anyone dealing with "where___" words. Germanic languages either still do, or did construct question words from prepositions by prepending "where" to them. So, "wherefrom" means "from where", "whereto" means "to where", but as well, "wherefore" means "fore what", and "whereafter" means "after what/which", etc.

So, "What did Johnny jump on?" can be written as "Whereon did Johnny jump?"

This also follows for "here___" and "there___". So, "herefore" means "for this reason", and "therefore" means "for that reason".

"For what reason did you break into that shop?" or "Wherefore did you break into that shop?"
*pointing to the stolen bread* "Herefore."

Modern English seems to have lost this, and that's why people tend to have problems with it. (Not for German speakers though, because "Wofür" (literally: where-for) is still commonly used.)

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby YttriumOx » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:44 am UTC

On the "ſ" vs "s" matter: As others have pointed out "ſ" goes at the beginning or middle of a word, whereas "s" goes at the end.
I sincerely wish it was still popular, as it would be very useful for compound words in German (German is full of compound words).
A good example is "Wachstube". That could be "Wachs-tube", which is a tube of wax; or it could be "Wach-stube" which is a guard-house. Note that these words are also pronounced differently.
Traditionally with compound words in German, the "ſ"/"s" rule was the same as English whereby "ſ" was used at the beginning or middle of words and "s" at the end. However with compound words the rule only applies to each individual word part within the compound word. Therefore, "Wachstube" is definitively a tube of wax, and "Wachſtube" is definitively a guard-house.
As a non-native German speaker, I'd find it very useful for mentally breaking up compound words in my head.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby Hafting » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:41 am UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:Why did the change the shape of the letter depending on where it was? That ſeems needlessly confusing.


ſtyle. ſtyle is important. In a time when you wrote everything by hand, you ſpent time on making it look good. Books had more ſtyle too. Actually, everything had more ſtyle, becauſe people's time were cheaper. ſo more time was ſpent on finiſhing.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby Red Hal » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:45 pm UTC

Hey man, CityBoy5705 called from 1978; on a touch-tone phone.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby abl » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:31 pm UTC

I would like to cite the intro to The Rockford Files as evidence that touch-tone phones were pretty common amongst forward-thinking people in 1974 (when Rockford first aired). I think it is clear that anyone making a call to 2012 at that time was forward-thinking.

http://www.myspace.com/video/whytrytwice/rockford-files-season-1-intro/7103953

The reason I recall this is that growing up, the UK felt like a technological desert: while Rockford flaunted his touch-tone phone with coupled answering machine we didn't even have video recorders to catch the subliminal woman-on-beach clip in that same intro.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby alanh » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:31 pm UTC

Yes, a rotary phone will still work on modern phone networks, at least in the US. I have a cloth-corded Western Electric 302 that works fine. However, it's useless on any "press 1" system. I think there were attempts to create systems that would recognize the clicks from pulse dialing, but were made moot by widespread tone dialing. A lot of systems are moving to voice-response, so the dial phones will be useful again.

I think there are still areas that still charge extra for touch-tone service, so there are cheapskates that refuse to get it. And non-US regions still may use pulse dialing. I had to dial an access number for a phone card by pulse dialing in Russia just a year or so ago, then switch to tone dialing to enter the account/pin and number I was calling. The convention there seems to be that the phone defaults to pulse dialing and the * key switches to to tones.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby SerMufasa » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:42 pm UTC

I've started reviewing classic porn for telephone usage. So far I've found a touch-tone from an early 80s movie.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby J Thomas » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:57 pm UTC

SerMufasa wrote:I've started reviewing classic porn for telephone usage. So far I've found a touch-tone from an early 80s movie.


That sounds like the best excuse I've ever heard of to review classic porn. But do you really need an excuse?
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby sarysa » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:47 pm UTC

That table is wearing bellbottoms...

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby Coyne » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:06 am UTC

WarnedOfStretchyDeath314 wrote:
Coyne wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:Why did the change the shape of the letter depending on where it was? That ſeems needlessly confusing.


Yes. It's just as confusing as to why we sometimes use "Q" instead of "q" in our text. Needlessly confusing.

Why do we use either Q anyway?


To be confusing. Essentially all English words start with "qu", for which we could just as easily use "kw".

I guess it comes down to: Because that's the way we do it.

Which seems to be our justification for a lot of strangeness.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:55 am UTC

Coyne wrote:Essentially all English words start with "qu"

Quyes, qubut quit's qunot quconfusing quat quall.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby bmonk » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:Quyes, qubut quit's qunot quconfusing quat quall.

Is this Duck Latin?
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:33 pm UTC

bmonk wrote:Is this Duck Latin?

No, just Human Mockery.
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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby bmonk » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:06 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
bmonk wrote:Is this Duck Latin?

No, just Human Mockery.

But it should be Duck Latin.
Having become a Wizard on n.p. 2183, the Yellow Piggy retroactively appointed his honorable self a Temporal Wizardly Piggy on n.p.1488, not to be effective until n.p. 2183, thereby avoiding a partial temporal paradox. Since he couldn't afford two philosophical PhDs to rule on the title.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby bilkie » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:09 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:Why did the change the shape of the letter depending on where it was? That ſeems needlessly confusing.

Perhaps the final form reduced confusion (originally):
The dual forms go as far back as ancient Greek, where sigma Σ has a medial (U+03C3 σ) and final form (U+03C2 ς), (but only in lowercase). It actually seems like a good idea, when you consider that the greeks (and romans and hebrews (who also used a final form or two)) didn't use spaces between words. The difference in the 's" might been the only non-contextual clue to signal the end of a word. It was Irish monks, struggling over learning these foreign languages, who first started separating words with spacing. ("How the Irish saved Civilization" Thomas Cahill)
Ibetthatchildreninthoseancientdayswishedthatmorelettershadfinalforms.Hardlyaselegantasspaces,thefinalformofalettermay,nevertheless, haveservedamorphologicalpurpose.
(MaybethelackofspacesexplainswhysilentreadingwassucharemarkabletalentaslateasAugustine.)

Of course even in elizabethan english, the two 's' forms might really represent a difference in phonetics: in the way we pronounce(d) (or perceive(d)) the 's' sound at end of a word.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby bmonk » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:24 pm UTC

How about Arabic--I believe that letters tend to have three, if not four forms, since many words are written in a type of cursive. As a result, letter have initial, medial, and final forms.
Having become a Wizard on n.p. 2183, the Yellow Piggy retroactively appointed his honorable self a Temporal Wizardly Piggy on n.p.1488, not to be effective until n.p. 2183, thereby avoiding a partial temporal paradox. Since he couldn't afford two philosophical PhDs to rule on the title.

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Re: 1072: " Seventies"

Postby mathmannix » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:19 pm UTC

bmonk wrote:How about Arabic--I believe that letters tend to have three, if not four forms, since many words are written in a type of cursive. As a result, letter have initial, medial, and final forms.


Yes, there are actually four forms for each letter (although not all unique) - for the beginning of a word, the middle of a word, the end of a word, and for when the letter is by itself (although this usually looks like a combination of the "beginning" form on one side of the letter and the "ending" form on the other. It's actually similar to how English uses that for cursive, though... combined with capital letters. (since Arabic doesn't have capital letters). Think of the beginning form as the capital letter, which often in English looks similar to the lower-case, but is a little different. So, when you write in cursive (if you can remember proper cursive from grade school, since most people I know only use cursive for their signatures - which have evolved independently from proper cursive in the decades since they learned it in grade school!) you use several forms for each letter. Like how a cursive r starts higher right after a lower-case b or o.

On another note, since this thread has been reopened, I feel like sharing an anecdote! My wife reported to me that kindergarten students today do not know what a telephone is. (That is, they don't know the word "telephone", just "cell phone".) So, when they were instructed to label whether a picture of a traditional-looking phone (probably even with a rotary dial) started with an "S" sound or "T" sound, all of them picked "S" for "cell phone".
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.


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