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1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:20 am UTC
by Jared the Great
Image

Title Text: "The worst resolution to the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma when YOU decide not to get your partner a present but your PARTNER decides to testify against you in the armed robbery case."

The jar of hammers actually seems kind of useful. Especially in the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 am UTC
by glasnt
How faux pas. Giving easter candy in February is just promoting the corporations releasing all those egg-shaped treats as early as Boxing Day!

Also, <3.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:37 am UTC
by JetstreamGW
glasnt wrote:How faux pas. Giving easter candy in February is just promoting the corporations releasing all those egg-shaped treats as early as Boxing Day!

Also, <3.



The earlier and more frequently we get Cadburry Creme Eggs, the better it is for ALL THE WORLD.


Oh and Jared The Great? Your sig is the worst joke in the WORLD.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:38 am UTC
by rhomboidal
Ironically, he sold his gold staple remover in order to buy the hammers.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:39 am UTC
by ribbonsofnight
If this scenario perfectly satisfies the conditions of the prisoners dilemma something is wrong with the relationship. I can agree (not in all cases) that viewed as a whole neither partner getting any sort of gift may be the best total net result but the other condition of the prisoners dilemma requires that given a specific choice by the partner you would prefer to have given a gift
i.e. if your partner didn't give a gift you would prefer to have given them a gift which presumably means you enjoy their discomfort

it's possible that I'm looking at this from the opposite way around but just as many inconsistencies come up that way too.

If you want to learn about game theory I've seen some quite interesting videos on youtube (by jimbobjenkins)Game theory 101: prisoners dilemma and stag hunt seem like the ones that match this scenario.

EDIT: before thinking through this a bit I did find the alt text quite amusing first

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:43 am UTC
by perakojot
can't believe nobody posted this yet:

GOOMHR!

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:49 am UTC
by VectorZero
rhomboidal wrote:Ironically, he sold his gold staple remover in order to buy the hammers.

Well done

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:51 am UTC
by joee
glasnt wrote:How faux pas. Giving easter candy in February is just promoting the corporations releasing all those egg-shaped treats as early as Boxing Day!


But maybe it'll make Bakers Delight release their choc chip hot cross buns earlier?

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:13 am UTC
by Quicksilver
The only winning move is not to play.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:17 am UTC
by glasnt
joee wrote:
glasnt wrote:How faux pas. Giving easter candy in February is just promoting the corporations releasing all those egg-shaped treats as early as Boxing Day!


But maybe it'll make Bakers Delight release their choc chip hot cross buns earlier?


Even if Creme Eggs and Choc Chip Hot Cross Buns are liked by people, they're seasonal items. Seasonal items should be available in the season. Otherwise, make them all the time. I get sad when I see eggs on Boxing Day, and Christmas Trees before Talk Like A Pirate Day.

*disclaimer: I don't like cremeeggs/hotcrossbuns, so I am not swayed by their deliciousness.


Hi joee.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:30 am UTC
by Djehutynakht
This is me.

For Valentines Day. For anything. This is me.

I'm not likely to get my hand stapled to my face... but something of the equivalent.

Myself and others, when confronted with exchanging gifts on Christmas and Valentines Day, have been known to semi-contractually plan out our giftgiving in advance.


If I knew an XKCD reader, I'd get them Easter Candy and a Jar of Hammers.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:36 am UTC
by Steve the Pocket
I'm sure someone will be in here shortly to criticize the use of "random humor", but I legitimately laughed at the punchline to this one.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:55 am UTC
by Arancaytar
Jared the Great wrote:Title Text: "The worst resolution to the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma when YOU decide not to get your partner a present but your PARTNER decides to testify against you in the armed robbery case."


That'd be a veritable Valentine's Day massacre.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:58 am UTC
by from canada
or you could just talk to your significant other so you understand what their expectations are and come to some kind of mutual agreement on how the "event" is to be celebrated... you know, like human beings

if they pull the say-they-don't-want-anything-but-were-actually-expecting-something-amazing just light them on fire and save everyone some grief


translation: if this actually happens to you, you're probably not as smart as you think reading xkcd makes you

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:00 am UTC
by sondre99v
Best one in a long time, could not stop laughing for a full couple of minutes :D

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:15 am UTC
by pbnjstowell
My husband just informed me that he'd probably be the one to staple his hand to his face.

And I haven't given him a jar of hammers (yet)... but one year I gave him a good kitchen knife for V-day. (The handle was red!)

PS.
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of tic tac toe?

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:20 am UTC
by Eebster the Great
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.

How? Kill yourself?

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:23 am UTC
by fearless
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.

This is the first thing that comes to my mind as well. So the best time to get a bf is right after Valentine's Day and dump him before his birthday (But make sure /your/ birthday is before /his/ birthday so you end up with one bday gift and no obligation to give him any for his) - It's perfect :D

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:24 am UTC
by fearless
Eebster the Great wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.

How? Kill yourself?

Huh? It's a reference to another xkcd comic.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:40 am UTC
by StClair
rhomboidal wrote:Ironically, he sold his gold staple remover in order to buy the hammers.

Perfect.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:07 am UTC
by toadpipe
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.


Unfortunetly it isn't much of an interesting game...

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:13 am UTC
by Kisama
JetstreamGW wrote:The earlier and more frequently we get Cadburry Creme Eggs, the better it is for ALL THE WORLD.
This. A thousand times, this.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:15 am UTC
by krisman
fearless wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.

How? Kill yourself?

Huh? It's a reference to another xkcd comic.

Well I say its a War Games reference. One of the greatest movies of all time.
However here's the tic-tac-toe comic. http://xkcd.com/832/

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:16 am UTC
by ysth
I don't do Xtian holidays, but if I did, I would give her a card saying:

Solve for i:

9x-7i > 3(3x-7u)

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:22 am UTC
by goibee
As an economist who to learn the prisoner's dilemma over and over again in different modules, I have to say the alt-text really made me laugh out loud.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:37 am UTC
by 907Code-G
fearless wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:The only winning move is not to play.

How? Kill yourself?

Huh? It's a reference to another xkcd comic.

I thought I was pretty familiar with all the xkcds, isn't that a war games reference? hence the "Game of tic tac toe" reference right after that?

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am UTC
by eae
I cannot believe I'm the first person to notice the bad grammar in the alt text. It should read, "The worst resolution to the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma _IS_ when" etc. I thought for sure xkcd readers were too smart to overlook something this blatant.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:37 am UTC
by fearless
Possibly? But he was referring to http://xkcd.com/601/
(I didn't mean Randall... I meant Quicksilver's ref)

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:06 am UTC
by atrahasis
eae wrote:I cannot believe I'm the first person to notice the bad grammar in the alt text. It should read, "The worst resolution to the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma _IS_ when" etc. I thought for sure xkcd readers were too smart to overlook something this blatant.

Mayvbe, like me, they spotted it but weren't about to waste their life posting about it on the internet.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:26 am UTC
by Invisiblemoose
eae wrote:I cannot believe I'm the first person to notice the bad grammar in the alt text. It should read, "The worst resolution to the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma _IS_ when" etc. I thought for sure xkcd readers were too smart to overlook something this blatant.

It's not bad grammar, it's a typo. Give Randall a fucking break.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:35 am UTC
by eae
atrahasis wrote:
eae wrote:I cannot believe I'm the first person to notice the bad grammar in the alt text. It should read, "The worst resolution to the Valentine Prisoner's Dilemma _IS_ when" etc. I thought for sure xkcd readers were too smart to overlook something this blatant.

Mayvbe, like me, they spotted it but weren't about to waste their life posting about it on the internet.


Yes, your life was clearly less-wasted posting not about the error but about what a waste of life posting about the error is. Didn't expect to find an asshole convention here. My mistake, after all this is still part of the internet.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:07 pm UTC
by pkcommando
glasnt wrote:How faux pas. Giving easter candy in February is just promoting the corporations releasing all those egg-shaped treats as early as Boxing Day!

Also, <3.

I thought it was very disturbing to see them in some stores this year BEFORE the Valentine's Day items. It's one of those moments when you want to find a calendar to confirm that you are not insane.

And yet, I never bat an eye when Christmas decorations are out before the Halloween costumes...... how strange.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:20 pm UTC
by Randomizer
I initially misread it as a jar of hamsters.

But hammers work, too.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:45 pm UTC
by SirMustapha
from canada wrote:or you could just talk to your significant other so you understand what their expectations are and come to some kind of mutual agreement on how the "event" is to be celebrated... you know, like human beings


But then they wouldn't be SPESHUL. Remember this comic is pandering to a "class" of people who consider social ineptitude as a sort of virtue, and take pride in deliberately making social affairs more confusing and problematic than they need to be. Because that's quirky and cute.

I just don't know how Randall manages to write dialogue that is so consistently unnatural and ugly. Aside from being irritating to read, it ruins even more the "lolrandom" humour at the end.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:58 pm UTC
by radtea
ribbonsofnight wrote:If this scenario perfectly satisfies the conditions of the prisoners dilemma something is wrong with the relationship.


No kidding: the PD requires that the two parties know nothing about each other except that they are "human". The Iterated PD, which is not the PD, allows knowledge of past behaviour.

The analysis of the PD turns on what is meant by "human". The traditional analysis in terms of strict economic rationality turns on a contradiction: it pretends to ask "What would a strictly 'rational' being do in this situation" and then behaves as if BOTH players are not strictly rational beings. As if one player was completely different in every respect from the other. This is weird, because it is then no longer an human game. The other player could be a random number generator for all you care.

This is important because if all you know is that the other player is economically rational (ie that "human" == "homo economicus") you know that they will behave identically to you. The off-diagonal elements of the pay-off matrix simple vanish in a cloud of contradiction, and the while "dilemma" becomes a trivial choice.

It is only when you treat one player are a rational being and the other player as a magic unicorn or equivalent that there is any dilemma to be found. On this view the PD highlights the randomness and irrationality of human behaviour rather than demonstrating any particular issue for economically rational individuals living in an economically rational population: in such a population everyone would make the same choices faced with the same PD-type situation, because beings of the same kind behave the same way (that is, causality holds.)

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:22 pm UTC
by rhhardin
The actual dynamic is that the girl gets to show her friends what she got.

The inconsiderate thing is putting your girl one down in the eyes of her friends.

It's girls showing off to friends that is the game to stop participating in.

Then Valentine's day can stop.

Otherwise guys will forever risk not getting laid.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:40 pm UTC
by dp2
Single me: "Valentine's Day should be abolished. It's salt in the wound for lonely people."
Coupled friend: "Oh, don't worry about it. It's really not important to most couples, so single people shouldn't feel like they're missing out on something."

I'd say I won that debate.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:01 pm UTC
by keithl
I'm getting my sweetie a 32GB USB flash drive filled with "I love you". I'm also hiding all the staplers.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:04 pm UTC
by Sprocket
<3
Especially the alt text!

I think I've only ever gotten a valentines gift from a boyfriend once, and that was two years ago. Technically I got one from Skippy once, but that was just a coincidence because The Magnetic Fields happened to be playing on Valentines Day.

Re: 1016: "Valentine Dilemma"

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:09 pm UTC
by jpers36
ysth wrote:I don't do Xtian holidays ...:


Valentine's Day is really a Hallmark holiday, at least the way it's celebrated nowadays.