0703: "Honor Societies"

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praybz
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby praybz » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:32 am UTC

Ahhhhhh....self-reference. The penis joke of intellectual humor.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:32 am UTC

bitt3r0blivion wrote:My friend totally already made the group. Every body needs to join right now

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=493168145467
If 1,000,000 people join this group, 1,000,000 people will be in this grou

fail.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby LuNatic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:37 am UTC

Question: What's an honor society?
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This is, for some reason, one of the funniest things I've read today.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby JamesGecko » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:39 am UTC

I'd just like to point out the definition
Tautology is the use of different words to say the same thing twice in the same statement. `The money should be adequate enough' is an example of tautology.


Vary it up! "This group is tautological because this is the tautology group" isn't nearly as colourful as "Supporters of tautology increase as our opponents fall!"

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:39 am UTC

-.Mateo.- wrote:Rules of Tautology club

1) The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club.

2) The second rule of Tautology Club is the second rule of Tautology Club.

3) When someone stops, or goes limp, taps out, he has stopped fighting.

4) Only two guys to a pair.

5) Only one fight can be singular.

6) No shirt, no shirt.

7) Fights will go on as long as they have to.

8) If this is your first night at Tautology Club, you have never been here before.

Fixed
Last edited by Eebster the Great on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:40 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Quicksilver
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Quicksilver » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:40 am UTC

1,000,000 people is logically invalid. Shouldn't they have 1,111,111 people?

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Greyarcher » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:40 am UTC

To be or not to be.
Not to be.
Therefore, not to be.
(I'd use formal symbology, but that would be even geekier. Besides, I like the ambiguity in "not 'to be'" and "not to be".)

Anyway, must say I liked this comic. First two panels especially amused me.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby nanotube » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:44 am UTC

LondubhAWC wrote:Technically the group's name is Not a tautology, because some people could have joined then dropped...


actually, if some people leave the group in the process, it is possible that while 1m have joined, there are not 1m people in the group.

(i was going to log in to say the same thing - then i saw you already said it, so i logged in to post a +1 on this. :) )

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:45 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the *second* rule of the tautology club.

2)The second rule of tautology club is the *first* rule of tautology club.

That's not a tautology. It's a paradox.


It's a tautology. It just spans multiple statements.

A tautology is a statement on the form "P -> P".
It doesn't make any difference if you express it like "P -> Q; Q -> P", it's still a tautology.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby phlip » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:46 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the *second* rule of the tautology club.

2)The second rule of tautology club is the *first* rule of tautology club.

That's not a tautology. It's a paradox.

Well, it's a circular definition, which is one variety of tautology.

It's still the case that the first rule is broken iff the first rule is broken, but the second rule is satisfied iff the second rule is satisfied.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby -.Mateo.- » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:47 am UTC

If I had a facebook account, I'd join the group, but since I don't have a facebook account, I won't
------------------------------
@Eebster: thanks for fixing my rusty english...still, I think both "3)" are good.
---------------------------
@JamesGecko: Just because Im bored, I'll point out that new supporters could come from tautology-neutral groups, and not from opposing groups.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Arancaytar » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:47 am UTC

-.Mateo.- wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club

2)The second rule of tautology club is the second rule of tautology club


It gets really bad when you try this:

2) The second rule of Tautology club is the first rule of Tautology club.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby videogamesizzle » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:57 am UTC

Hey! Totally made that group a few months ago. There's like... 55 people. That's cool, right? (Everyone else is linking, so why not?)

It gave me a weird vibe for a second, before realizing: "Oh wait, there's probably like 70 more of these groups on Facebook."
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby MinstrelOfC » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:02 am UTC

Quicksilver wrote:1,000,000 people is logically invalid. Shouldn't they have 1,111,111 people?

1,000,000 people is valid, because that's the number of people needed to have a million.

(Obligatory, but then, everything that isn't forbidden is permissible.)

the_original_xy
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby the_original_xy » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:04 am UTC

most of you aren't actually using tautology, you're just repeating the same thing over again.

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StClair
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby StClair » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:08 am UTC

Editer wrote:Jason Fox, third from left.

I agree.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby KeithIrwin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:18 am UTC

I wish the honor society at my high school were just tautological and silly. Mine was actively dishonorable. It met an hour before school and all meetings were mandatory. So kids who had to depend on the bus to get them to school (i.e. poor kids) were right out. Only middle class and above could be "honorable". And they also rigged the scoring so that the seniors would always win spirit week.

I never really gave a big push myself being that I don't believe in school spirit being a good idea, but when I was a sophomore, some friends of mine really tried hard. One of the events was buying tickets which donate to charity. Whichever class bought the most tickets would win. They were only on sale during the lunch periods (5th and 6th). I had 6th period lunch that year. At the start of each period, they'd give the total so far. At the start of the 6th period of the last day you could buy tickets, the sophomores were way up on the seniors. I happened to be sitting near the sales table that period, and there was no big flood of seniors buying tickets. Most seniors qualified for off-campus lunch and used that privilege to stay far away from the cafeteria. And there was a big flood of sophomores. But when the honor society announced the final results the next day at the pep rally, the seniors had almost doubled their total from the start of sixth period lunch, pulling them just above the sophomores and giving them just enough points to win the overall contest.

That's how the "honor" society rolled at my school. I hadn't joined to to begin with (before school meetings, ick, both because they were exclusionary and because I like sleep), but at that point, I swore I never would. And I never did and still got into a good college anyway (maybe having more sleep once a month helped). Everyone was all sure that colleges paid attention to that crap, but I doubted it then and still do now. Even very smart people seem to fall for pretty dumb ideas sometimes.

By the way, amongst my favorite phrases is "illogical tautology". It's used by evolution opponents to try to dismiss the idea that the most fit to survive will survive.

Also, I can see the "what's the definition of tautology" war breaking out around me. Logicians mean something different by a tautology than non-logicians. In the world of formal logic, a tautology is a statement which must always be true (for example: "A is either in set X or not in set X"). Outside the world of formal logic, a tautology is a statement which is true but meaningless due to its repetition (for example: "Tall people are tall"). So, yes, these repetitive statements are tautologies, they just aren't formal logic tautologies. How about we don't argue about it any more?

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby serrath » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:51 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the *second* rule of the tautology club.

2)The second rule of tautology club is the *first* rule of tautology club.

That's not a tautology. It's a paradox.


Nope, it's two contradictions. The mathematical opposite of a tautology.

Also, if 1,000,000 people join, the group may not have 1,000,000 people in it. Some may leave.
Last edited by serrath on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:55 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby serrath » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:54 am UTC

wallacoloo wrote:"If you state the obvious, then you're only stating the obvious"


Nope, P -> Q is not always true. You might state the obvious and something further, in which case you are not only stating the obvious.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby zara » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:58 am UTC

I you ever found this club, you will have founded it. And we will have found it.

serrath
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby serrath » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:59 am UTC

JamesGecko wrote:I'd just like to point out the definition
Tautology is the use of different words to say the same thing twice in the same statement. `The money should be adequate enough' is an example of tautology.


Vary it up! "This group is tautological because this is the tautology group" isn't nearly as colourful as "Supporters of tautology increase as our opponents fall!"


That's the common english definition. The mathematical definition of a tautology is a statement which is always true.

Mekmek
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Mekmek » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:11 am UTC

I sometimes forget how much fun wikipedia can be...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome

Would the tautology club be abbreviated TC club then?

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby negeungrevrhaf » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:22 am UTC

Hmmm.... I wonder if today's IE (non-)display issues are part of the comic's theme... IE doesn't properly display the page because it doesn't work in IE? :-)

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Outchanter » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:37 am UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
-.Mateo.- wrote:Rules of Tautology club

1) This is the first rule of Tautology Club.

2) This isn't.

3) Gold is golden, but silence is quiet. When you're tired of talking about tautologies, you don't want to talk about them anymore.

4) Only two tautologies to a couplet.

5) Only one tautology per tautology.

6) If you don't wear shirts, you can't wear a Tautology Club shirt.

7) If you can't shorten the tautology, you'll need more words.

8) If this is your first night at Tautology Club, you haven't been here before.

Fixed

Fixed again.
Last edited by Outchanter on Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:42 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.

Panama1984
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Panama1984 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:40 am UTC

The Tautology Club will of course be shortened to TTC Club, or The Tautology Club Club

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:42 am UTC

It should be called the Tautological Tautology club.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Panama1984 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:48 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:It should be called the Tautological Tautology club.


the Tautological Tautology Club club, you mean

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:50 am UTC

Panama1984 wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:It should be called the Tautological Tautology club.


the Tautological Tautology Club club, you mean


I'd prefer "The club consisting of members of the tautological tautology club."
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Pidgeot » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:54 am UTC

negeungrevrhaf wrote:Hmmm.... I wonder if today's IE (non-)display issues are part of the comic's theme... IE doesn't properly display the page because it doesn't work in IE? :-)


IE doesn't properly display the page, because, for whatever reason, Randall never closes the title tag and this is not one of the HTML things that IE auto-corrects. Thus, IE reads everything as being in the title (and probably breaks totally when it encounters all that extra HTML in there).

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby mgf » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:58 am UTC

Tautologically speaking....

My friend Karl long ago registered karl.com, in the dim early days of the Paleolithic Internet. He is
known to his friends as "OTK"....the One True Karl.

Some years later, he was contacted by a person who was quite incensed that karl.com was already
taken, as this particular person-named-Karl had designs upon the name. This person was not one
who was completely clueful about domain names, precedence and How It All Works.

"What gives you the right to karl.com? *I* wanted it!"

"It's mine because I'm the One True Karl."

"The One True Karl? Why is that?"

"Because I have karl.com!"

"Aaaaaaaaggggghhhhhh!"

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby P1h3r1e3d13 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:30 am UTC

Wikipedia: Tautology wrote:Tautology may refer to:
Tautology (rhetoric), repetition of meaning, using dissimilar words to say the same thing twice...
Wiktionary: tautology wrote:tautology (2): An expression that features tautology.

I see what they did there.

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NorthLondon
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby NorthLondon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:31 am UTC

LuNatic wrote:Question: What's an honor society?


Seriously, what's an "Honor Society"??? I'm sure one of you nice Americans will help out those of us who didn't attend a US school.

Also, in British English, "honor" is spelt "honour". Similar for favor/favour, etc. I know it's the correct spelling for US English, just looks different to the unfamiliar eye.

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Sk25 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:36 am UTC

Pidgeot wrote:
negeungrevrhaf wrote:Hmmm.... I wonder if today's IE (non-)display issues are part of the comic's theme... IE doesn't properly display the page because it doesn't work in IE? :-)


IE doesn't properly display the page, because, for whatever reason, Randall never closes the title tag and this is not one of the HTML things that IE auto-corrects. Thus, IE reads everything as being in the title (and probably breaks totally when it encounters all that extra HTML in there).


Are you sure? Opera displays today's comic incorrectly too, but I never had any problem with earlier comics. The title tag must always be closed, so this should be fixed.

Good thing Opera allows on-the-fly editing of the source ;-)
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby prokrastinatorSF » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:38 am UTC

@serrath :

"Nope, it's two contradictions. The mathematical opposite of a tautology."

Not true. It only implies that the first and second rules are the same rule. This is true, for example, of the rules of Fight Club: The first rule is the same as the second rule, and the second rule is the same as the first rule.

I'm not talking about the order of the rules, but about their content.

First rule of fight club = You don't talk about Fight Club
Second rule of fight club = You don't talk about Fight Club

By the substitution property, First rule of fight club = Second rule of fight club
By the symmetric property, Second rule of fight club = First rule of fight club

Therefore, the statements "The first rule of Tautology Club is the second rule of Tautology Club" and "The second rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club" are not tautologies on their own, but taken together, they form a tautology.



@You, sir, name? :
I think that's the best name for the club I've heard yet.

stok3r
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby stok3r » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:10 am UTC

Love the Fight Club Reference, and the fact that one of them is standing behind him to imply that she is Jack, tho that might not have been on purpose?

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Guilbert :) » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:13 am UTC

Oh, and cos I couldn't be stuffed looking through the whole thread - heres the myspace one :) http://groups.myspace.com/amillionpeople

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Re: Honor Societies

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:28 am UTC

In the last panel, why do they stand in line to listen to him?
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:34 am UTC

phlip wrote:
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
prokrastinatorSF wrote:1)The first rule of tautology club is the *second* rule of the tautology club.

2)The second rule of tautology club is the *first* rule of tautology club.

That's not a tautology. It's a paradox.

Well, it's a circular definition, which is one variety of tautology.

It's still the case that the first rule is broken iff the first rule is broken, but the second rule is satisfied iff the second rule is satisfied.

but, but, isn't it all, "The first rule actually isn't the second rule, because they're not the same"? Because rule two doesn't actually reflect the properties of rule one. It's like blue ink claiming to be from a red-ink pen.
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby phlip » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:36 am UTC

Pidgeot wrote:Randall never closes the title tag

No, I'm pretty sure this is something new. You can't just look at previous strips to find out... they're all regenerated from a template every time a new strip comes out (to update the news panel and such)... so if the </title> was removed from the template, all the strips would be affected.

It's been reported in the appropriate places, I'm sure those in charge will fix it when they get the chance.

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: Honor Societies

Postby makc » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:40 am UTC

just because the author did it in the comic, it does not mean you should all post stupid repetitive remarks in this thread... it just doesn't.

p.s. this IE thing has nothing to with title tag


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