0381: "Mobius Battle"

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gtkarber
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0381: "Mobius Battle"

Postby gtkarber » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:04 am UTC

Image

http://www.xkcd.com/381/

Alt-text: Films need to do this more, if only to piss off the people who have to feed it into the projector.

It took me awhile to realize the full ramifications, that not only is the image reversed, but the victim is as well. But this is one of my favorite XKCDs in awhile. (Not to disparage the comic, which is always so much fun!)
Last edited by gtkarber on Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:05 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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connorsname
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby connorsname » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:05 am UTC

Made me think about it for a bit, but it's very clever. I now have a need to make one of those...

woktiny
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby woktiny » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:05 am UTC

Ever wonder if this is the true nature of time?

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Ondore
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Re: Mobius Battle

Postby Ondore » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:05 am UTC

I can never stop reading strips about mobius.

Although I love a good fight, an eternal one would get old rather quickly.

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podbaydoor
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby podbaydoor » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:05 am UTC

Okay, this comic took me a minute to digest (it's been a long day). And then it blew my little mind.

Alt text was witty, but almost ruined the elegant simplicity of the comic.
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
noun
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

gtkarber
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby gtkarber » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:06 am UTC

I do agree about the alt-text. It would have been nice had it looped or something. But still, it's alt-text, so I guess I can just look at the picture because I happen to have a computer which displays images.

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby ++$_ » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:07 am UTC

It's "Möbius." But the idea is very good, and I will have to make one of these.

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robzy
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby robzy » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:08 am UTC

That is just oh-so-awesome.

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woktiny
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby woktiny » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:09 am UTC

Speaking of the alt(title)text, I think it would be fabulous to load some mobius cut into a projector and run it for a while... how neat would that be?

(until it got old...)

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Anarchy965
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Anarchy965 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:10 am UTC

At first I thought it was just a pun. (mobius "strip") But once I looked again I realized how genius it is.

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LegosDrgn
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby LegosDrgn » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:10 am UTC

Hilarious! I love how the straight pic on the left shows the frames, while the mobius curve shows the transparency, to show just how beautiful this idea really is.

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nahtanoj999
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby nahtanoj999 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:14 am UTC

At first I thought he only needed a regular loop, but then I realized that the chirality reverses each time. Clever.

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Nullius in Verba » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:16 am UTC

I used to write trig identities onto mobius strips (cos2θ=cos2θ-sin2θ=1-2sin2θ=2cos2θ-1=cos2θ=... and then another strip for, say, sin2θ) and then make paper chains out of them. Good fun, but probably not nearly as awesome as this.

Ksevio
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Ksevio » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:17 am UTC

It would get messed up in a projector since the sound track takes up space on one side and would show up on the screen when it hit the reverse splice (listening to the sound readers play the picture as audio isn't much fun either)

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LegosDrgn
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby LegosDrgn » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:21 am UTC

Ksevio wrote:It would get messed up in a projector since the sound track takes up space on one side and would show up on the screen when it hit the reverse splice (listening to the sound readers play the picture as audio isn't much fun either)


Then we shall have to use an old silent movie projector

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4=5
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby 4=5 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:22 am UTC

I guess it would have to be a silent film then

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robzy
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby robzy » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:26 am UTC

I just made my first mobius strip :P

Unfortunately A4 paper is no really big enough.... need to do something about that...

Come to think of it, I think that shouldn't bee too hard.... :P

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby The Taped Crusader » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:28 am UTC

This begs to be made into a looping gif.

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby bbctol » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:29 am UTC

Oh my god. Pure win and awesome. xkcd has blown my mind again with sheer brilliance.

Avram
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Avram » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:29 am UTC

Image

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b.i.o
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby b.i.o » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:32 am UTC

Strips like this are why xkcd is so amazing...

That's absolutely awesome in its simplicity and genius. :D

DSDM
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby DSDM » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:52 am UTC

Very nice. But it would be so much funnier if it was a nut shot :)

djagir
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby djagir » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:53 am UTC

Flappity, floppity, flip
A mouse on a Möbius strip:
The strip resolved;
The mouse dissolved
In a chronodimensional skip.

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Syka
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Syka » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:07 am UTC

I will fully admit to not really understanding it until I saw the gif.


Then I had to hold back from laughing since my roommate is asleep like four feet away. :mrgreen:

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Jahoclave » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:07 am UTC

woktiny wrote:Speaking of the alt(title)text, I think it would be fabulous to load some mobius cut into a projector and run it for a while... how neat would that be?

(until it got old...)

And how long until the unsuspecting audience caught on?

bcoblentz
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby bcoblentz » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:15 am UTC

This is a good way to make an audio tape loop twice as long. If it wasn't a colossal pain in the ass to do without a screwdriver I'd probably make a couple right now.

Jenora
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Jenora » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:19 am UTC

You know, Matt Howarth actually did a couple of Möbius strip comics in one of the old issues of Particle Dreams. One of them was just a long lineup of people, and could have been done on a non-Möbius loop as well; but the other one involved a guy walking through a weird spaceship and meeting himself, and at one point walking through a door that went to the other 'side' of the strip...

theprince234
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby theprince234 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Image

I wish I had used a bigger piece of paper and had a better camera.

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mudge
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby mudge » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:21 am UTC

Here's my attempt (twerked some of the positions to make the animation smoother)
mobius-comic.gif
mobius-comic.gif (11.92 KiB) Viewed 31880 times
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Steve the Pocket
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:34 am UTC

Ksevio wrote:It would get messed up in a projector since the sound track takes up space on one side and would show up on the screen when it hit the reverse splice (listening to the sound readers play the picture as audio isn't much fun either)

NON! When you splice the ends together it would just abruptly shift from one end to the other. AND I believe some types of film have audio strips on both sides, one for the left channel and the other for the right.* So, assuming the same data is stored on both sides (front/back) of each sound strip, you could actually engineer the sound so that it does indeed have sound, and in perfect stereo at that.

* Correct me if I'm wrong about this. I don't remember filmmaking class as well as I wish I did.
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby dreamcatcher_31 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:36 am UTC

"Are we to be two immortals, locked in epic battle until the trumpets of Judgement Day?"

I love the fact that it's not just a loop, but in fact it ONLY works with a mobius strip, because the left guy and the right guy need to be viewed from the other side for the looping effect to work.

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Azrael001 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:41 am UTC

mudge wrote:Here's my attempt (twerked some of the positions to make the animation smoother)
mobius-comic.gif


I am making this my avatar now. It rocks.
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Tychomonger
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Tychomonger » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:43 am UTC

There is no left guy and right guy. They are both the same person. This is a Mobius time loop and it is amazing.

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aerojad
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby aerojad » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:01 am UTC

the levels of lol involved here made this comic
Image

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Jach
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Jach » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:08 am UTC

Whatever this comic was, it went completely over my head... Then I entered this topic to see what it was about, and I looked at the comic again, and I was enlightened...

It was a nice thing to see before going to bed.
I love reading quotes.

Chacor
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Chacor » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:16 am UTC

I'll admit too that it originally flew over my head. Then you guys absolutely made my day with this. Brilliant animation, by the way. :lol:

kelerain
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby kelerain » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:25 am UTC

http://dabritz.org/mobius_battle.png

For the purposes of printing using a fold-in-half method.
Easier than double sided printing I think, and sturdier.

Experiment
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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Experiment » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:35 am UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:
Ksevio wrote:It would get messed up in a projector since the sound track takes up space on one side and would show up on the screen when it hit the reverse splice (listening to the sound readers play the picture as audio isn't much fun either)

NON! When you splice the ends together it would just abruptly shift from one end to the other. AND I believe some types of film have audio strips on both sides, one for the left channel and the other for the right.* So, assuming the same data is stored on both sides (front/back) of each sound strip, you could actually engineer the sound so that it does indeed have sound, and in perfect stereo at that.

* Correct me if I'm wrong about this. I don't remember filmmaking class as well as I wish I did.


I work as a movie theatre projectionist, and it's actually kind of fun to make loops, we made one out of a horror movie trailer to scare the employees who had to clean the theatre between showings.

Doing a mobius loop would be tougher, and no, most film (actually, all commercial film that I know of) uses a sound track on only one side, the left side (or at least, you'd see it on the left side of the screen if someone didn't have an aperture plate in). However, if one were to take a loop of film, but slice off the right side and splice on another sound track on the right (which wouldn't be too hard if you were using trailers, most theatres have like, a hundred of them at any given time), then you could add a turn to the film, splice the head and tail ends together, and have a mobius film loop that could conceivably work.

Problem is that you'd have to splice the second audio track on really well, or it'd probably end up slipping off of the sprockets, and you'd need a specially designed aperture plate or you'd end up seeing that right audio track being displayed on the screen as a bunch of purple lines.

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby Bumnut » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:41 am UTC

I wish I could be bothered doing some tweening, or putting a version together in flash...

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Re: "Mobius Battle" Discussion

Postby mudge » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:45 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:
mudge wrote:Here's my attempt (twerked some of the positions to make the animation smoother)
The attachment mobius-comic.gif is no longer available


I am making this my avatar now. It rocks.


I twerked even further :D

mobius-comic3.gif
mobius-comic3.gif (20.14 KiB) Viewed 30949 times
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