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0336: "Priorities"

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:00 am UTC
by Blipo
Image
Alt-text: You should start giving out 'E's so I can spell FACADE or DEFACED.
Link: http://www.xkcd.com/336/

I like this one. =D

Edit: How did he get an 'E' grade?
Edit2: Didn't read the alt-text properly. Ignore above edit.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:01 am UTC
by Dynastic
It makes you wonder, what's more important, an aesthetically pleasing report card or the college/career you end up in?

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:02 am UTC
by Blipo
Dynastic wrote:It makes you wonder, what's more important, an aesthetically pleasing report card or the college/career you end up in?


If you don't plan on going to college or university (*waves*), aesthetic is nice.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:02 am UTC
by Gamche
I now must try this oh well here goes my 4.0. Anyways don't some schools give away E's instead.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:03 am UTC
by Gyvulys624
dam I was too slow, anyway:

It has a good idea but I think we've seen a lot better. I don't think anyone here can relate to failing on purpose.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:04 am UTC
by Blipo
Gamche wrote:I now must try this oh well here goes my 4.0. Anyways don't some schools give away E's instead.


Does *any* schools give Es?

Gamchie/Dynastic, post in the Welcome thread, please. >_> (Am I even allowed to say that at <50 posts?)

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:04 am UTC
by King Matt I
I know that they give E's in most British schools.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:05 am UTC
by d33p
In my elementary school, it was "S" for Satisfactory, "I" for Incomplete, "U" for Unsatisfactory... and "E" for Excellent.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:06 am UTC
by Blipo
King Matt I wrote:I know that they give E's in most British schools.


*moves to Britain*

What's the percentage required for an E? My school gives Is for "you're failing but you can make it up", is it similar?

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:06 am UTC
by hobbesmaster
My university gives E's for a failing grade in a class taken for normal credit, and F's for failing courses taken on a Pass/Fail basis. I was under the impression that many others do as well. But anyways - you could do that at Kentucky!

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:07 am UTC
by JayEye
You can't really spell "fa├žade" with grades.

/ji

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:09 am UTC
by muteKi
Fuck. I lost again.

Anyway, here's what I posted on my attempt at starting the discussion, minus apologies for screwing up the imgs url:

You know, I read this having slept through all of my morning classes Tuesday. One of the reasons I was able to make this topic was that I was not busy with any next-day homework this time.
Personally, I just wish AAAA was a word (http://www.indietits.com/atom.xml, anyone?) so I could claim that. Maybe I'll just do a little worse in Japanese and Calculus (i.e., never study) so I can spell ABBA or something.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:16 am UTC
by sunami
Okay, I had a conversation with this girl last year from Colorado, who insisted that it made 100% sense that an 'F' would be given for a failing grade, and that an 'E' just doesn't make sense. As in "A, B, C, D, F" rather than "A, B, C, D, E" and despite anything I said ("The point is to go in alphabetical order, why should you skip 'E' just because 'Fail' starts with an 'F'!"), she wouldn't budge that an F is for failing and E is not a grade.

Am I crazy or does it make sense to skip 'E' as a grade? Did anyone else's schools use 'E' for a failing grade?

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:19 am UTC
by Blipo
sunami wrote:Okay, I had a conversation with this girl last year from Colorado, who insisted that it made 100% sense that an 'F' would be given for a failing grade, and that an 'E' just doesn't make sense. As in "A, B, C, D, F" rather than "A, B, C, D, E" and despite anything I said ("The point is to go in alphabetical order, why should you skip 'E' just because 'Fail' starts with an 'F'!"), she wouldn't budge that an F is for failing and E is not a grade.

Am I crazy or does it make sense to skip 'E' as a grade? Did anyone else's schools use 'E' for a failing grade?


F for Fail.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:21 am UTC
by tesseract
sunami wrote:Okay, I had a conversation with this girl last year from Colorado, who insisted that it made 100% sense that an 'F' would be given for a failing grade, and that an 'E' just doesn't make sense. As in "A, B, C, D, F" rather than "A, B, C, D, E" and despite anything I said ("The point is to go in alphabetical order, why should you skip 'E' just because 'Fail' starts with an 'F'!"), she wouldn't budge that an F is for failing and E is not a grade.

Am I crazy or does it make sense to skip 'E' as a grade? Did anyone else's schools use 'E' for a failing grade?


It made sense back in the days of handwritten report cards when an F could easily be rewritten into an acceptable 'E' but now it's just tradition.

Too bad some people are just utterly unable to see a point of view other than the one that's been hammered into their head.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:32 am UTC
by Brandon
You know,
A
A
A
A
A
is in alphabetical order. Since the student feels that he MUST fail to maintain alphabetical order, we can deduce he must also be failing at least one other class.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:32 am UTC
by aleflamedyud
This so speaks to my 62 CS exam.

What? The average was a 61.2!

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:35 am UTC
by muteKi
For grades from 3rd and under in Tucson the grading scale used an E as the top grade (exceeds expectations)
Underneath that were the following:
S (Satisfactory)
N (Needs Improvement)
U (Unacceptable) [I think it was unacceptable]
I (Improving; not used as a grade in and of itself but sometimes added to other grades: you could get a S+ with a little I in the corner of the grading box)

For this reason the E was not used in later grades, or at least the usages were related.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:41 am UTC
by Green9090
Brandon wrote:You know,
A
A
A
A
A
is in alphabetical order. Since the student feels that he MUST fail to maintain alphabetical order, we can deduce he must also be failing at least one other class.


A grade <A does not = fail. He may have gotten an A, B, C, and D in his other classes, which is still no fail.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:46 am UTC
by ahecht
sunami wrote:Okay, I had a conversation with this girl last year from Colorado, who insisted that it made 100% sense that an 'F' would be given for a failing grade, and that an 'E' just doesn't make sense. As in "A, B, C, D, F" rather than "A, B, C, D, E" and despite anything I said ("The point is to go in alphabetical order, why should you skip 'E' just because 'Fail' starts with an 'F'!"), she wouldn't budge that an F is for failing and E is not a grade.


In the Los Angeles public schools, some classes that grade on participation only (PE, band, etc.) are graded on an E/S/U scale (Excellent, Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory). Therefore, graded classes were marked on an A/B/C/D/F scale which skipped E since it was already used.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:47 am UTC
by Unforgiven
I never understood this whole letter-based system. Isn't it much easier to just use percentages or a number between 1 and 10?

Although you can get weird results there too. In the Netherlands at least, 6 and up is a pass and 5 and lower is a fail. So what's a 5.5? My highschool used the policy that 5.5 was a passing grade. At University they simply never gave grades between 5 and 6. Decimals were possible at every other place but not between 5 and 6.

And then there's the people who indulge in giving grades like 8+. WTF am I supposed to count that as when calculating an average? 8.25 or something? And what's a 10+? Does that mean you got more than everything correct?

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:47 am UTC
by SimonSwift
sunami wrote:Okay, I had a conversation with this girl last year from Colorado, who insisted that it made 100% sense that an 'F' would be given for a failing grade, and that an 'E' just doesn't make sense. As in "A, B, C, D, F" rather than "A, B, C, D, E" and despite anything I said ("The point is to go in alphabetical order, why should you skip 'E' just because 'Fail' starts with an 'F'!"), she wouldn't budge that an F is for failing and E is not a grade.

Am I crazy or does it make sense to skip 'E' as a grade? Did anyone else's schools use 'E' for a failing grade?


'F' and 'E' look very similar. It complicates things if they're both on the grading scale. The rest are completely distinguishable.


As for the comic, I've actually thought about this before, except thinking about writing something with the grade report. I kinda wanted to get the letters BAD in a row, but I realized it wouldn't really work because nobody would even be looking because I had like...Fifteen grades by the end of the year.
Nonetheless, I never actually thought of sabotaging a class for the sake of writing a word, it was more, "it'd be cool if this popped up."

As a sidenote, think about how difficult it would be to get those middle grades right. You'd need to have exactly the right grade percentage. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that a game should be set up where students try to get as close as possible to a specific percentage in a given class, and they have to be precise about what they do and what they don't do (of course, the teacher can't help out because the teacher would have to be oblivious). I see a new college trend beginning...


~Siswi

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:52 am UTC
by zingmaster
SimonSwift wrote:As a sidenote, think about how difficult it would be to get those middle grades right. You'd need to have exactly the right grade percentage. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure that a game should be set up where students try to get as close as possible to a specific percentage in a given class, and they have to be precise about what they do and what they don't do (of course, the teacher can't help out because the teacher would have to be oblivious). I see a new college trend beginning...

It's like one of those secret DDR missions on Extreme 2, where you have to get a letter grade of C exactly to unlock a secret song. That's damn hard.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:53 am UTC
by jacqueline
Did this remind anybody else of the "Fixed Width" one (http://xkcd.com/276/)? Sometimes, it is better to resist even the geekiest temptation (though it pains me to say so).

Also, I'm pretty sure my school (college) gave out 'E' as a failing grade (there was no 'F'), not 100% sure though, as I never actually tried it ;). Perhaps because it was an engineering school. (I can imagine several of my professors being all "Damn it, there is no reason to skip a letter. That's it, I'm giving out 'E's.)

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:57 am UTC
by muteKi
Yeah, I thought of that too. Actually, ChatZilla doesn't do fixed-with characters by default, so I don't usually think about that one too much.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:57 am UTC
by King Matt I
Blipo wrote:
King Matt I wrote:I know that they give E's in most British schools.


*moves to Britain*

What's the percentage required for an E? My school gives Is for "you're failing but you can make it up", is it similar?


At my school, and i think it's the same at most schools in the U.K, it was just given instead of an F, but that could be any percentage because all grades were on a curve.

sunami wrote:
Am I crazy or does it make sense to skip 'E' as a grade? Did anyone else's schools use 'E' for a failing grade?

I have to agree with you I really don't see why F is used instead of E.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:59 am UTC
by Shadic
Nice reminder than I can't fail any of my College classes, or else I'm basically not going to be able to graduate on time. :(

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:01 am UTC
by sunami
SimonSwift wrote:'F' and 'E' look very similar. It complicates things if they're both on the grading scale. The rest are completely distinguishable.

Well this is assuming they're not on the grading scale, as in if it went A, B, C, D, E. Stop. No F, or G, etc.

I guess I kinda maybe sorta think I might understand in lower grades, where you don't really get grades so much as gold stars or check marks, where the final grade is (E)xcellent, (U)nsatisfactory, etc, and then halfway through, (maybe at the start of 3rd or 4th grade) switch to alphabetical letter grades (even this is kinda "Just pick one way and work with that!"). But in high school?

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:06 am UTC
by Nullius in Verba
Green9090 wrote:
Brandon wrote:You know,
A
A
A
A
A
is in alphabetical order. Since the student feels that he MUST fail to maintain alphabetical order, we can deduce he must also be failing at least one other class.


A grade <A does not = fail. He may have gotten an A, B, C, and D in his other classes, which is still no fail.

No, he's right.

A
B
C
D
D
Is alphabetical, too. The only way you'd have to fail to get everything in alphabetical order is if the preceding letter was also an F.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:09 am UTC
by Deskchair Intellectual
Does anyone else sometimes not do assignments because you know your grades would be high enough even if you don't do it?

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 am UTC
by Kaye
"I got an F in 'Sex'? I didn't even know there was a sex class!"

>>;;

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:14 am UTC
by Deskchair Intellectual
Kaye wrote:"I got an F in 'Sex'? I didn't even know there was a sex class!"

>>;;

Note: The class was actually SFX, as in special effects, but they misread it as SEX.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:18 am UTC
by Kaye
Deskchair Intellectual wrote:
Kaye wrote:"I got an F in 'Sex'? I didn't even know there was a sex class!"

>>;;

Note: The class was actually SFX, as in special effects, but they misread it as SEX.



Nono, the student is female; therefore, the report card would read "Sex: F". Har har har.

But now that I think about it, do report cards even have the student's gender? eeh.

Moving on.. *quietly backs away*

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:19 am UTC
by Deskchair Intellectual
Kaye wrote:
Deskchair Intellectual wrote:
Kaye wrote:"I got an F in 'Sex'? I didn't even know there was a sex class!"

>>;;

Note: The class was actually SFX, as in special effects, but they misread it as SEX.



Nono, the student is female; therefore, the report card would read "Sex: F". Har har har.

But now that I think about it, do report cards even have the student's gender? eeh.

Moving on.. *quietly backs away*

Well, it was more like apun on what we're talking about, since they are talking about the teachers getting E and F mixed up, so...

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:26 am UTC
by Moo
Nullius in Verba wrote:
Green9090 wrote:A grade <A does not = fail. He may have gotten an A, B, C, and D in his other classes, which is still no fail.

No, he's right.

A
B
C
D
D
Is alphabetical, too. The only way you'd have to fail to get everything in alphabetical order is if the preceding letter was also an F.
Come on, as if anything less than a perfect A-B-C-D-F would be xkcd. Of course, that is near perfect; perfect would mean moving to a school that gives E's and trying again, even if that DOES mean moving to Britian...

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:29 am UTC
by MrDelirious
Blipo wrote:
Gamche wrote:I now must try this oh well here goes my 4.0. Anyways don't some schools give away E's instead.


Does *any* schools give Es?

Gamchie/Dynastic, post in the Welcome thread, please. >_> (Am I even allowed to say that at <50 posts?)

E's replaced F's here at the University.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:33 am UTC
by KingAl
Moo wrote:
Nullius in Verba wrote:
Green9090 wrote:A grade <A does not = fail. He may have gotten an A, B, C, and D in his other classes, which is still no fail.

No, he's right.

A
B
C
D
D
Is alphabetical, too. The only way you'd have to fail to get everything in alphabetical order is if the preceding letter was also an F.
Come on, as if anything less than a perfect A-B-C-D-F would be xkcd. Of course, that is near perfect; perfect would mean moving to a school that gives E's and trying again, even if that DOES mean moving to Britian...


And of course, it's easier to get a certain F than a certain D. What if he got a C by accident? It doesn't bear thinking about...

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:36 am UTC
by cephalopod9
Failing could also be the only way to get his grade low enough. If homework is only a small percentage of the over all grade, it might just be class policy that could sufficiently sabatoge his grade. Say he has 100% of everything else, and homework is 20% of the over all grade. Turning in one homework assignment could get him a B.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:40 am UTC
by muteKi
Deskchair Intellectual wrote:Does anyone else sometimes not do assignments because you know your grades would be high enough even if you don't do it?

Yes.

Re: "Priorities" Discussion

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:41 am UTC
by yellie
My school gave out E's. anything under 40% was a fail. E's were given out if your result was in between 25-40% I think. F's were 15-25% and NG's (no grade) were 0-15%.

Just thought I'd say that E's are given out in Ireland, at least. And our state exams require us to sit at least six exams. So we can actually strive to spell FACADE.