2084: "FDR"

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herbstschweigen
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby herbstschweigen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:29 am UTC

DonJaime wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:English, having started as a way for Norman men-at-arms (French-speaking) to chat up Saxon barmaids (German-speaking)...


Please look it up. I'm too tired to explain all the ways that's wrong.


It may be wrong, but it evokes a really funny scene, when you imagine a today's french man-at-arms talking to a today's barmaid in Dresden.
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herbstschweigen
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby herbstschweigen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:38 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Yet Tolkien wrote poetry in his various languages, which translates back into English and still fits the rhyme and meter.

What? How?


Tolkien's languages are based on indo-european grammar structures. He also used typical sounds and constructs from Gaelic and Norse languages. That could explain they are not too difficult to translate into our current european languages.
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby herbstschweigen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:45 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:Yeah, a sane, well-designed language would have similar sounds attached to similar meanings (and vice versa).

Why on Earth would those have to be features of a good language? Are there any such languages? Even among intentionally designed ones, it seems an unreasonable expectation.


Do you mean something like the noun classes that Swahili and many other african languages have? Where the prefix of a word already tells you not only whether it's singular or plural, but also whether it's human, animal, plant, inanimate, big, small, etc?
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Cougar Allen
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby Cougar Allen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:43 pm UTC

herbstschweigen wrote:Talking about catchy rhymes, I only remember "753, Rom schlüpft aus dem Ei" (which is a legend, not a historic fact) and "333, bei Issos Keilerei" (and I don't remember who fought whom there, or why, and who won). But I have the impression that mnemonic rhymes are more prevalent in the US. Maybe someone has some examples for us non-USians?

Kings Play Chess On Fat Girls' Stomachs. (Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species)

Fred Can Get Drunk At Every Bar. (The circle of fifths, something musicians need to remember. Last time I taught someone that one he was a harmonica player I knew was a recovering alcoholic, so I hastily changed it to Fred Can't Get Drunk ...)

Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (or Fudge). (Learning to read music, the lines in the treble clef from bottom up. The Moody Blues used that for the title of an album.)

Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me! (The spectral classes of stars. Change Girl to Guy or Gentleman to suit your preferences.)

My Very Excited Mother Just Served Us Nine Pies. (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

Or without Pluto: My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Noodles.

Hmm ... none of those are actually rhymes, are they. Oh well.

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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby DonJaime » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:19 pm UTC

herbstschweigen wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Yet Tolkien wrote poetry in his various languages, which translates back into English and still fits the rhyme and meter.

What? How?


Tolkien's languages are based on indo-european grammar structures. He also used typical sounds and constructs from Gaelic and Norse languages. That could explain they are not too difficult to translate into our current european languages.


The grammar of the elvish languages is a mixture of all kinds of thing, not just Indo-European. The sounds of Quenya are much like Finnish (Fenno-Ugric), while Sindarin sounds more like Welsh (Celtic) despite being descended from the same root as Quenya. Dwarvish and human languages are structured more like Hebrew or Arabic (Semitic).

The poems translate so well because Tolkein was that kind of nerd: he enjoyed constructing poems in two languages at once. He did the same thing with puns.
I don't think 'pedant' is really the right word.

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Soupspoon
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:51 pm UTC

Never Eat Shredded Wheat (compass points, in clockwise order) rhymes and scans. Most of the mnemonics I use these days aren't rhymes ('clever' in other ways, if at all) but this is the one given me from my very much younger days (Cub Scout era). I think I just used the word "WE" (rather than "EW" across the centre of the compass) before that, though.

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da Doctah
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby da Doctah » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:00 am UTC

Cougar Allen wrote:
herbstschweigen wrote:Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (or Fudge). (Learning to read music, the lines in the treble clef from bottom up. The Moody Blues used that for the title of an album.)


Of course, being British, they spelled it "Favour". We were taught it as "Every Good Boy Does Fine", and for the bass clef "Good Boys Do Fine Always". The spaces in the base clef were "All Cows Eat Grass" (or "All Cars Eat Gas"), and it wasn't necessary to create a phrase for the spaces in the treble clef since they just spelled the word "FACE".

I made up "TRIal by a JURy of CRETins" for the sequence of periods in the Mesozoic Era, but I've never come up with an equally compelling one for any of the other geological things.

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Soupspoon
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:11 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Cougar Allen wrote:
herbstschweigen wrote:Every Good Boy Deserves Favor (or Fudge). (Learning to read music, the lines in the treble clef from bottom up. The Moody Blues used that for the title of an album.)


Of course, being British, they spelled it "Favour".
Although for my teachers it was actually spelt "Football" when they tried to teach music at me.

(I say 'tried', but there was a whole lot of stuff about Gregorian Chanting that needed copying into our half-lined/half-staved Music exercise books for many lessons before anybody ever bothered to get anywhere near letting anybody holding any type of instrument, let alone a tune. Made the subject drier than the pea in an actual football whistle. And just as inherently unmusical in the end.)

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McHell
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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby McHell » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:31 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Yeah, a sane, well-designed language would have similar sounds attached to similar meanings (and vice versa).

For you, and mostly you, there is Lojban. :!:

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Re: 2084: "FDR"

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:52 pm UTC

McHell wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:Yeah, a sane, well-designed language would have similar sounds attached to similar meanings (and vice versa).

For you, and mostly you, there is Lojban. :!:

I'm happy with my crazy, naturally developed language, thanks, where "ghoti" is a defensible spelling of "fish" and "egog" is an animal that definitely should not have fur, of any colour.


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