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1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:22 am UTC
by gmalivuk
Image

I always figured you should never bring a gun to a gun fight because then you'll be part of a gun fight.

The now-nameless OP who neglected to include the link wrote:Just wanted to say the images were cute. And, the lid could act as a shield at a knife fight. So, change that to green, please.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:26 am UTC
by Quey
Agreed, I had this one pot lid in college that I always thought would serve well as a buckler. Alas, my fencing coach viewed such improvised fighting implements as more of a liability than anything else, legally, if not practically in a bout.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:28 am UTC
by speising
So, statistically at least, it's best to always bring a gun?

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:37 am UTC
by Znirk
speising wrote:So, statistically at least, it's best to always bring a gun?

Either that, or always go to a knife fight.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:40 am UTC
by rhomboidal
azule wrote: the lid could act as a shield at a knife fight.

Especially if it's made of vibranium.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:15 am UTC
by Pfhorrest
The lid on the head and on the gun in the last row made me literally laugh out loud. That seems like kind of a Beret Guy thing to do.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:53 am UTC
by Ben-oni
All JNF matrices must be upper triangular. Please fix. Your test will not be graded until this is remedied. Thank you. Also, not quite sure what your eigenvalues are. Please clarify.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:23 am UTC
by herbstschweigen
Sploshing water on your opponent in a knife/gun fight might at least irritate or distract them for a precious second and give you the opportunity to run away. So maybe not green but yellow on those two.

You could also swing the full bucket and use that as a weapon. Might even be more efficient. Just staying away from the blade/bullets while doing so could be a little difficult.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:21 am UTC
by cellocgw
Waiting impatiently for the artists out there to add row/column entries for

-- light saber
-- velociraptor
-- sharks with frickin lasers

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:27 am UTC
by Soupspoon
That table is incorrect for Steven Seagal.

Or Sammo Hung, where the whole table is "Towel vs _____" (good against everything but fire, because it isn't a damp towel).

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:29 am UTC
by suso
This one almost seems like a new meme. I like it.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:40 am UTC
by karhell
herbstschweigen wrote:Sploshing water on your opponent in a knife/gun fight might at least irritate or distract them for a precious second and give you the opportunity to run away. So maybe not green but yellow on those two.

You could also swing the full bucket and use that as a weapon. Might even be more efficient. Just staying away from the blade/bullets while doing so could be a little difficult.

And nobody said the water had to be in a liquid state.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:47 am UTC
by Xenomortis
Quey wrote:Agreed, I had this one pot lid in college that I always thought would serve well as a buckler. Alas, my fencing coach viewed such improvised fighting implements as more of a liability than anything else, legally, if not practically in a bout.

Maybe useful in a sword fight, but I don't think it'd be as useful in a knife fight.
(Although I'm unconvinced on the applicability of a small buckler in modern foil fencing - may be tricky to stop flick hits).

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:28 pm UTC
by richP
Great comic, fodder for endless additional discussion. My random thoughts:

Knife row:
* bringing a knife to a knife fight might not even be optimal. I recall reading an old martial arts book years ago that suggested if you are proficient in hand to hand combat, have a knife available, and are facing an opponent who is unskilled in knife fighting, you should give them the knife, since that will actually hinder their attack. No clue if the author bled to death in a knife fight.

Also forgot the "that's not a knife" clause.

Water and lid rows:

* Use the old xkcd what-if approach of upscaling the item in question. Lid: see manhole covers and assorted bugs bunny cartoons. Water: reference the old Mythbusters episode where they tested using water to put out a grease fire (hint: wildfire helicopter). Also reference stock footage of protestors in mid 20th century America.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:31 pm UTC
by praetor_alpha
But Counterstrike taught me that a knife in a gun fight can be very useful!

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:03 pm UTC
by MDS_Dan
See, it's never specified how much water you can bring. If you bring enough water, you win every time

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:09 pm UTC
by Moose Anus
I'm not convinced that water is the right thing to bring to a wood fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4zNgZPPHw

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:15 pm UTC
by cphite
I have to disagree with the one about bringing a knife to a gun fight - at close range, a knife can be highly effective against someone holding a gun.

Also, a metal lid can be used against someone wielding a knife; so that one should at least be yellow instead of red.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:20 pm UTC
by jozwa
If you brought a fire blanket you could put out both fires.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:52 pm UTC
by Thesh
If the fight is long enough, the water should be able to rust away the knife.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:58 pm UTC
by DanD
Quey wrote:Agreed, I had this one pot lid in college that I always thought would serve well as a buckler. Alas, my fencing coach viewed such improvised fighting implements as more of a liability than anything else, legally, if not practically in a bout.


Join the SCA. We have rigid parry options, and a pot lid would be fine.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:28 pm UTC
by Xenomortis
praetor_alpha wrote:But Counterstrike taught me that a knife in a gun fight can be very useful!

Certainly it helps you run faster. ;)
You should definitely bring a knife to a race.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:44 pm UTC
by HES
I reckon bringing an oil fire to a knife fight would be an effective strategy

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:03 pm UTC
by wumpus
richP wrote:Great comic, fodder for endless additional discussion. My random thoughts:

Knife row:
* bringing a knife to a knife fight might not even be optimal. I recall reading an old martial arts book years ago that suggested if you are proficient in hand to hand combat, have a knife available, and are facing an opponent who is unskilled in knife fighting, you should give them the knife, since that will actually hinder their attack. No clue if the author bled to death in a knife fight.


If you are facing an enemy that is unskilled in knife fighting, why would you assume that they are skilled without a knife, or whatever they had? There are two basic ways to "knife fight".

Something out of "West Side Story", which you might expect between two knife fighters.
"Stabstabstabstabstabstab", which will work in all other situations.

I doubt many unarmed specialists are quite ready for the second option. I think that was "fourth degree black belt level" according to largely fading memory of my karate teacher (who was 4th degree after 20 some years of practice, although I don't know how long he had held the rank).

By "give them the weapon" you mean "throw it at them and hit them when they duck" you might have a point. But even a closed folding knife would make your punches vastly more effective, and simply opening it would allow a lot more attacks (and prevent more defences/blocks, probably much more critical). I really don't think that is remotely serious advice.

Finally, don't think you can simply bring a gun to a knife fight. If your gun is in a holster when somebody starts stabbing you, you will be fatally stabbed before you get the gun out. Don't even ask if it is a shoulder holster. If you made the knife wielder bring a knife to a gun fight, you win. If you bring a gun to a knife fight, you lose (especially if he started stabbing you since he knew you had a gun).

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:08 pm UTC
by Pfhorrest
wumpus wrote:I doubt many unarmed specialists are quite ready for the second option. I think that was "fourth degree black belt level" according to largely fading memory of my karate teacher (who was 4th degree after 20 some years of practice, although I don't know how long he had held the rank).


I used to be a 3rd degree black belt in TaeKwonDo, and I don't remember exactly what ranks were included in the class where it happened (this was decades ago), but we were already being taught unarmed defense against a knife-wielding attacker. Of course, the first phase of defense is "run the fuck away", but then if for some reason you can't do that, we were taught other things as well; with the caveat that, in all probability, real life won't go as smoothly as in class, and again, if at all possible, just run the fuck away.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:59 pm UTC
by richP
wumpus wrote:
If you are facing an enemy that is unskilled in knife fighting, why would you assume that they are skilled without a knife, or whatever they had?


Yea, that was the part that I had the most trouble with. It's not like you get to review a fighter's resume before a bar fight (or get a cut scene showing his strengths/weaknesses before the battle).

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:11 pm UTC
by keldor
Lid to fire reminds me of an event way back when I took organic chem. A fellow had a beaker full of pure alcohol which caught fire, so another guy grabbed the fire extinguisher and whoosh...put the fire out--as well as knocking all the glassware onto the floor. Glass vs floor = bad news for glass. Any idea how much a bench full of chem glassware costs?

Would have been smarter to use a lid.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:06 pm UTC
by JohnTheWysard
Re "gun vs. fire":

"But me, I expected it to happen
I knew he'd lost control
When he built a fire on Main Street
and shot it full of holes!"

- Bob Dylan, Memphis Blues Again

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:23 pm UTC
by colonel_hack
speising wrote:So, statistically at least, it's best to always bring a gun?

Or send a spork...
https://xkcd.com/419/

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:46 pm UTC
by RogueCynic
Why does Randall not bring up the inevitable fruit fight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U90dnUbZMmM

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:56 pm UTC
by Old Bruce
colonel_hack wrote:
speising wrote:So, statistically at least, it's best to always bring a gun?

Or send a spork...
https://xkcd.com/419/

Because both (all?) participants will die horrible stabby deaths.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:15 pm UTC
by DanD
Pfhorrest wrote:
wumpus wrote:I doubt many unarmed specialists are quite ready for the second option. I think that was "fourth degree black belt level" according to largely fading memory of my karate teacher (who was 4th degree after 20 some years of practice, although I don't know how long he had held the rank).


I used to be a 3rd degree black belt in TaeKwonDo, and I don't remember exactly what ranks were included in the class where it happened (this was decades ago), but we were already being taught unarmed defense against a knife-wielding attacker. Of course, the first phase of defense is "run the fuck away", but then if for some reason you can't do that, we were taught other things as well; with the caveat that, in all probability, real life won't go as smoothly as in class, and again, if at all possible, just run the fuck away.


Soo Bahk Do (one of the forms that was combined into TaeKwonDo), basic disarms were covered for students at pretty much all levels. However, given a choice between attempting them in a real world situation and any other solution that might possibly work, I'd be inclined to try the other solutions. Even if it works perfectly most of the time, I don't want to be the one were it doesn't.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:23 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
If one person has a knife and another a gun, presumably whether it's a gun fight or a knife fight is a question of the range of the encounter?

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:36 pm UTC
by svenman
rmsgrey wrote:If one person has a knife and another a gun, presumably whether it's a gun fight or a knife fight is a question of the range of the encounter?

While whether it is a fight at all, presumably, is a question of the rage of the encounter.

I'll see myself out...

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:50 pm UTC
by da Doctah
cellocgw wrote:Waiting impatiently for the artists out there to add row/column entries for

-- light saber
-- velociraptor
-- sharks with frickin lasers


Never bring your arm to a light saber fight.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:45 pm UTC
by Aiwendil
Moose Anus wrote:I'm not convinced that water is the right thing to bring to a wood fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4zNgZPPHw


Battle Beasts! My goodness, did I love those.

That is all.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:15 am UTC
by azule
HES wrote:I reckon bringing an oil fire to a knife fight would be an effective strategy

This and all the other suggestions leads me to think that a game based on these matchups would be fun. It might exist.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:07 am UTC
by azule
gmalivuk wrote:Image

I always figured you should never bring a gun to a gun fight because then you'll be part of a gun fight.

The now-nameless OP wrote:Just wanted to say the images were cute. And, the lid could act as a shield at a knife fight. So, change that to green, please.

Why am I nameless and why am I not OP anymore? I guess I'm not wanted here. :x

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:51 am UTC
by Thesh
See the two threads above this one.

Re: 1890: "What to Bring"

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:05 am UTC
by Soupspoon
Specifically, the viewtopic.php?f=7&t=122637 one shows the specific (yet not personally targetted at you) frustration involved here. But the other sticky thread (the rules to abide by) is also worth a read. I should probably refresh myself, some time.

(If I thread-start, I tend to reply to the prior comic OP, copy, it, abandon it, start new thread, paste, edit it (including remembering to remove pasted quote-tags!) for the comic link, the image link, the title-text (often the slowest part and hardest, as I have no easy way of just copypasting on this browser, so hand-retyped!) and the 'witty' rejoinder of my own. Thus if I ever fail to obey the template, it's because nobody had yet corrected the one I cribbed from. - Obviously I should actually crib from the sticky thread's explicitly code-quoted template, but I don't think I've ever done that, when Comic #X-1 Thread, or occasionally another due to recent activity, draws me to it instead. Forgive me gmalivuk, if I have sinned!)