1672: "Women on 20s"

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed May 04, 2016 6:40 pm UTC

ATMs don't dispense 1s. I'm assuming it was about cash deposits made to the machine.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Omegaman » Wed May 04, 2016 6:50 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
Omegaman wrote:I think it would be easier to just devalue the currency by a factor of 5... People are too stupid to round to the nearest 5, and don't bother mentioning that what we're talking about is an integer number of hundredths of a dollar because that's way too much for people to think about.

First, that's the opposite of "devaluing". Second, however difficult you might imagine the implementation of removing the lowest-denomination coin from circulation as many countries, including the US, have done in the past, and as has been done for the one-cent coin in other places, it isn't "literally impossible if aliens were holding a gun to all our heads" in the way that instituting a new currency at five times the value would obviously be.

Yeah, I realized that when I posted it... Should have said "revalue".

I think we're in agreement though that it would be easier to bring in enough aliens to hold guns to everyone's head than to teach the typical American to make change without a "1".

Seriously-- do you want to stand in front of a Trump rally and explain that "on average" it all works out, and this isn't a scheme by the government to steal your money? You'll want that alien army behind you.

All of our major trading partners outperform us in math--- it'll be easier to just explain it to them and keep the interface the same for the domestic user.
Last edited by Omegaman on Wed May 04, 2016 7:29 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed May 04, 2016 7:09 pm UTC

speising wrote:What has the adjacency of an ATM to a strip club to do wih the state of the bills dispensed by it? I would assume that the machine isn't filled by the dancers?


I deduce from the anecdote that some (most? all?) ATMs in the US accept deposits as well as dispensing money.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed May 04, 2016 7:41 pm UTC

If that's the case, it's quite odd I've never seen one. Such things do exist.

Edit: Additional possibility: they all do have them, and I've simply never noticed.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed May 04, 2016 10:06 pm UTC

They don't all accept deposits, but many that are associated with a particular bank definitely do.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed May 04, 2016 10:32 pm UTC

Gotcha. It was the existence of all those generic ATMs that couldn't possibly that was throwing me off, I think. I'd never noticed my bank's ATMs having them, but now I wish I'd paid attention to see if I had the option (I've definitely gone into a bank specifically to make a deposit on several occasions and might have had the option to skip the step.)
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 04, 2016 11:08 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Gotcha. It was the existence of all those generic ATMs that couldn't possibly that was throwing me off, I think. I'd never noticed my bank's ATMs having them, but now I wish I'd paid attention to see if I had the option (I've definitely gone into a bank specifically to make a deposit on several occasions and might have had the option to skip the step.)
Here in the UK, depositing ATMs tend to be the seperate machines from the withdrawl ATMs, and I've only ever seen them attached to banks (almost always inside, even if it's just a bank-card controlled "false foyer", open even when the branch as a whole is closed for out-of-hours periods).

The main vulnerability of a dispensing machine is that someone tries to get stuff out of the armoured cash-supply container(s), bypassing the controlled feed mechanism. For a depositing machine (as with night-safe entryways) there must be a greater threat of something put into the device that causes problems. I think attaching it to a bank (already prepped to deal with anomolous situations, moreso than the "corner store ATMs") has many advantages.

Datum point: My current bank-branch (in town, not actually the closest one to where I live, but the one that's technically 'holding' my account for various arcane reasons) has two withdrawing ATMs outside (by fhe doors into the bank proper) another withdrawing and two depositing ATMs (taking cash and/or cheques) just inside the doors, for use during buziness hours, plus a.'postbox' inside for paying-in enevlopes (don't need the cash card) and then both cashiers desks (standard over-the-counter business of in/out/shaake-it-all-about kinds) and an enquiry desk which generally deals with non-standard stuff, and/or acts as a gateway to the offices behind the scenes where all kinds of one-to-one paper-signings and the like goes on. (It probably has a night-safe hatch, outside, but I've never had reason to use one of them, myself, so I haven't looked for it yet.)

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby CharlieP » Sat May 07, 2016 9:17 pm UTC

I didn't realise $2 bills were so remarkable, but just spotted this:

http://boingboing.net/2016/05/05/texas-police-tell-little-girl.html
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby ijuin » Sun May 08, 2016 4:19 am UTC

When even the police think that there's no such thing as a $2 bill, you've got to wonder...

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Sun May 08, 2016 3:04 pm UTC

Police fuck up all the time, and think fake guns and fake swords are real and that unarmed people running away constitute a deadly threat, so I don't think their ignorance can be used as evidence for anything much.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby doogly » Tue May 10, 2016 1:25 pm UTC

For the horriblness of the police, sure. I mean it's a fairly settled question, but if they're going to keep providing evidence we can keep cataloging it.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri May 13, 2016 4:54 pm UTC

To clear things up, yes that was a deposit-capable ATM. Dispensers generally have far fewer problems because the bank gets to control the quality of the media in it.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby typo » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:40 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:I didn't realise $2 bills were so remarkable, but just spotted this:

http://boingboing.net/2016/05/05/texas-police-tell-little-girl.html

The story on reason.com, linked from the boingboing page, says the problem was that the note was from 1953 and so old that the school's counterfeit-detecting pen didn't work on it. The kid was accused of passing a fake $2 bill, not a non-existent denomination. But threatening her with "big trouble" and depriving her of lunch seems like an overreaction.

BTW, ATMs hereabouts (Toronto, Canada) typically accept deposits in envelopes (provided), subject to verification by bank staff, rather than try to recognize the currency on their own as I infer the one near the strip club was doing. Less chance of jams that way. Also, our smallest bill is a five; I've never tried tucking a tooney in a G-string but don't think it would work very well.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:02 pm UTC

typo wrote:I've never tried tucking a tooney in a G-string but don't think it would work very well.
And if you're dropping one into a posing pouch, it's probably a different establishment. Or day of the week.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby scarletmanuka » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:35 am UTC

typo wrote:The story on reason.com, linked from the boingboing page, says the problem was that the note was from 1953 and so old that the school's counterfeit-detecting pen didn't work on it. The kid was accused of passing a fake $2 bill, not a non-existent denomination. But threatening her with "big trouble" and depriving her of lunch seems like an overreaction.

The story on reason.com also links back to a broader story on abc13.com, which I found rather interesting. Particularly these parts:
There is concerning outlier when examining the statistics. Ted Oberg Investigates could not find a single white student suspect in these documents. There is one in Cy-Fair, but he is 27 years old and not a student. All the rest were largely black and to a lesser extent, Hispanic.

No district wanted to weigh in on why that was.


But speaking of overreactions:
The crime is forgery - a third-degree felony in Texas. If found guilty, students could be sentenced to two to 10 years in prison. The Harris County DA's office says most would be given probation but this is still a felony arrest and/or conviction that has to be reported for a lifetime.


[the case of one kid who, if I'm reading it correctly, was given a $10 bill to pay for lunch by his friend, which looked real and he thought was real...]
"He comes to school the next day and he gets arrested and charged with a third-degree felony." Nezami said. "He's in seventh grade. He doesn't handle money that much."

"They put him in handcuffs," he said. "They put him in a police car, the whole bit."

His parents even offered to pay the $10 that was owed the school.

The 13-year-old even qualifies for free lunch from the school.

He's never been in trouble and reliably gets A's and B's in class.

He was charged with a felony and sent to alternative school before being found guilty of anything.

His case is still pending.


Here in Australia we managed to dump our 1 and 2 cent coins years ago with little difficulty. Now we have 5¢, 10¢, 20¢, 50¢, $1, and $2 coins, and $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 notes (though $100s are rare since ATMs normally dispense $20 and $50 notes). Since it's always a 1, 2, 5 progression, making change is pretty simple. (As noted up-thread, purchase amounts are rounded to the nearest five cents when paying by cash. Legislation exists to enforce fair rounding rather than, for example, always rounding up. Theoretically this can be exploited by consumers for a net benefit, but the benefits are so marginal that it's not worth it.) Oh, and deposit-capable ATMs are fairly common.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby KrytenKoro » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:07 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
KrytenKoro wrote:
orthogon wrote:So is it a greater honour to be featured on a higher denomination banknote, or a less valuable but more numerous and frequently exchanged one?

The $20 is both more valuable and more numerous/frequently exchanged.
Not according to the Federal Reserve.

There have been fewer $20s in circulation than $1s at least for the past 20 years, and fewer $20s than $100s every year since 2008.

You appear to be right that it's more frequently exchanged, though, since the volume paid into and taken out of circulation by the Fed is greater than any other denomination.

Compared to the $10, though.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby CharlieP » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:15 am UTC

scarletmanuka wrote:Here in Australia we managed to dump our 1 and 2 cent coins years ago with little difficulty. Now we have 5¢, 10¢, 20¢, 50¢, $1, and $2 coins, and $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 notes (though $100s are rare since ATMs normally dispense $20 and $50 notes). Since it's always a 1, 2, 5 progression, making change is pretty simple. (As noted up-thread, purchase amounts are rounded to the nearest five cents when paying by cash. Legislation exists to enforce fair rounding rather than, for example, always rounding up. Theoretically this can be exploited by consumers for a net benefit, but the benefits are so marginal that it's not worth it.) Oh, and deposit-capable ATMs are fairly common.


The story I often heard when down your way in 1996 was about one gentleman who kept going into the supermarket, "buying" 2c worth of loose mushroom(s) for 0c, and repeating. I'm not sure if it was an urban legend or not.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:25 pm UTC

Even if the law dictated that (as opposed to allowing it round up so there's a 5 cent minimum), that would be a spectacularly bad waste of the schemers time.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby CharlieP » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:53 am UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Even if the law dictated that (as opposed to allowing it round up so there's a 5 cent minimum), that would be a spectacularly bad waste of the schemers time.


Indeed.

I do employ similar money-scraping tactics myself, for example when buying fuel I try and round up to the next full litre so as not to waste loyalty points (1 point awarded per litre). I've just done the maths, and it turns out I'm saving myself a quarter of a penny per visit. Get in!
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