1329: "Standing"

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The Synologist
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1329: "Standing"

Postby The Synologist » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:45 am UTC

Image

Title text: "At first I was making fun of them, but joke's on me--the deer is surprisingly ergonomic, except for the kicks."

Honestly I'd only ever heard of treadmill desks, never ones where you just stand there. Does anyone here have experience with either of these? I feel like in theory it's an awesome idea, imagine doing the same number of hours of walking per day as you spend on a computer, you'd be in excellent shape!

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Oomiak » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:53 am UTC

I use a second hand drafting table, the adjustability lets me sit using a high stool when my legs get tired. I try to move however much I can to prevent the fatigue that comes with standing for long periods.

My reason/argument for using it is pretty much the one Randall's stand-in uses. I miss leaning back in my overly comfy fake-leather office chair with my feet propped up on a low stool, but the current setup is probably better for me. Not as good for me as using the same time walking, running, or chasing a deer with a laptop harnessed to it, but better than the previous setup.

I can't think of a good way to work or play using a computer while moving bodily without putting up a treadmill desk just as you mention, but those things are expensive and take up a lot of space. I suppose I could do creative work by walking in circles or walking around some location and stopping intermittently to braindump on paper or on screen, but personal locomotion while actively inputting something seems harder.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby stickler » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:24 pm UTC

Am I the only one who has to type the path in to get the comic?

Perhaps it is intentionally hard to get to :?

A what-if was late recently, maybe RM is busy?

Disclaimer: I don't really care.


Also, I thought standing desks were an old thing. I just don't jet why most chairs stop at the armpits, surely some head support would be nice.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:25 pm UTC

Hitch your swivel chair to the deer for a real white-knuckle ride.

The main problem is having to redo your DSE assessment every time the deer moves.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:34 pm UTC

Somehow I doubt he'll ever catch that deer... I still think the strapping your laptop to your belly and typing while walking is a better option (although it looks kinda geeky).

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby flukiluke » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:45 pm UTC

The real question is how do you use those annoying trackpads on the laptop? Precise control would probably prove to be a bit difficult. Clearly, more research needs to be done in this area.

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cellocgw
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:12 pm UTC

Just wondering if that's actually Acteon he's chasing around.
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:35 pm UTC

I end up standing much of the day despite having a seat that actually puts me at a slightly better level...

I haven't ever tried attaching my machine to livestock though (aside from anything else, it's a desktop, so would need a suitable umbilical)

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:46 pm UTC

flukiluke wrote:The real question is how do you use those annoying trackpads on the laptop? Precise control would probably prove to be a bit difficult. Clearly, more research needs to be done in this area.

Trackpad? Oh: duckduckgo: trackpad=apples touchpad. Of course this is not mentioned, everyone knows Apples entire product line right? </sarcasm>

Is this question meant to be in general? Or just when tied to a deer? I think you should just use your keyboard possibly combined with a mouse/tablet when not strapped to a deer.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby eviloatmeal » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:57 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:I think you should just use your keyboard possibly combined with a mouse/tablet when not strapped to a deer.

Just use a Bambi.
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby speising » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:06 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:Just wondering if that's actually Acteon he's chasing around.


Image

hm, doesn't look like it.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby johnay » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:06 pm UTC

He charges his phone with a thermoelectric generator placed in a fire he started with a smoldering ember from a tree struck by lightning.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby cjm » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:11 pm UTC

This comic made me chuckle with simple enjoyment. Thanks!

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby drumking66 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:47 pm UTC

Honestly I'd only ever heard of treadmill desks, never ones where you just stand there. Does anyone here have experience with either of these?


I have a sit-to-stand desk; it's basically a monitor/keyboard stand with easily adjustable height. I like it because I have trouble either sitting or standing for more than 2 hours at a time. The only downside is it doesn't work for dual monitor setups. There do exist entire desks which move up and down at the push of a button/crank of a knob

The real question is how do you use those annoying trackpads on the laptop?


Whether you are sitting or standing, the only reason to use those is because you don't have a mouse. If you're at a desk you should have a mouse. Non-issue.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:13 pm UTC

drumking66 wrote:Whether you are sitting or standing, the only reason to use those is because you don't have a mouse. If you're at a desk you should have a mouse. Non-issue.

Is a deer a desk?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Whizbang » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:39 pm UTC

flukiluke wrote:The real question is how do you use those annoying trackpads on the laptop? Precise control would probably prove to be a bit difficult. Clearly, more research needs to be done in this area.


Let alone the Clit Mouse

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cellocgw
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:40 pm UTC

drumking66 wrote:
The real question is how do you use those annoying trackpads on the laptop?


Whether you are sitting or standing, the only reason to use those is because you don't have a mouse. If you're at a desk you should have a mouse. Non-issue.


I rather imagine there are plenty of flame wars already in existence over one's choice of pointing device. As it happens, I far prefer a good trackball to either a mouse or a trackpad.

I will get daring and suggest that mice are the least ergonomic for two reasons. First, you have to move your arm a lot more than w/ trackballs or trackpads. Second, people almost invariably tend to grab the mouse with more force than necessary.

A well-programmed trackpad (ya know, with tap, tap-drag, multi-finger taps and gestures) really is much easier on your body once you get trained -- as is my Kensington trackball w/ lots of programmable buttons.


Then again, real programmers use the Command Line :D
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:29 pm UTC

I can't wait for Apple to release the next iPad strapped to the backs of wild rabbits.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:35 pm UTC

I
Whizbang wrote:
flukiluke wrote:The real question is how do you use those annoying trackpads on the laptop? Precise control would probably prove to be a bit difficult. Clearly, more research needs to be done in this area.


Let alone the Clit Mouse

Ironically, whereas the ordinarily mouse can fall off the back of the desk or get lost under papers, the clit mouse is always easy to find.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby f1g2h311 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:52 pm UTC

I believe I saw a school a few years ago that were trying out standing/sitting desks. For the sitting option along with having high chairs, there were foot rest bars under the desks which could swing. I imagine the only issue there would be keeping the bars well oiled to avoid squeaking.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby drazen » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:28 pm UTC

I never understood those standing desks -- when I stand around at a party, my back gets very sore after a while. Not sure if it's a bad back or bad posture, but I'd much rather be sitting (oddly, active exercise or walking around doesn't really bother it -- it's just standing around. No matter how hard I try to stand up straight, my back just does NOT like it).

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Flumble » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:44 pm UTC

I'm really in need of things like these. It's probably not healthy for a young adult to sit for 14 hours most days and only occasionally walk around the house... even if our plant-digesting ancestors did it.

cellocgw wrote:Then again, real programmers use the Command Line :D

Do we have a "religious war" about this already? Because I really want to rant about people acting smug for only using command line interfaces. :P

orthogon wrote:Ironically, whereas the ordinarily mouse can fall off the back of the desk or get lost under papers, the clit mouse is always easy to find.

I think you need to rearrange your priorities: it's best if you don't push stuff off you desk or bury it beneath paper.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:51 pm UTC

drazen wrote:I never understood those standing desks -- when I stand around at a party, my back gets very sore after a while. Not sure if it's a bad back or bad posture, but I'd much rather be sitting (oddly, active exercise or walking around doesn't really bother it -- it's just standing around. No matter how hard I try to stand up straight, my back just does NOT like it).

My university science library has them for the max. 5 minute computers, I really like them, it saves the bother of sitting down/leaning over the desk to look at your timetable with the added luxury of actually having a keyboard (instead of using a smartphone). The medicine faculty clearly didn't get the point and has the four quick lookup computers at the entrance at varying height, with four barstools with two computers below the seat of the stool but too high for a normal chair and one somewhat too high for the barstool.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Soral » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:14 pm UTC

Has anybody tried sitting on an exercise ball at a desk? I haven't yet, but the idea of working the core muscles appeals to me. I imagine that you'd have to work up to a full work day.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Klear » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:33 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:I will get daring and suggest that mice are the least ergonomic for two reasons. First, you have to move your arm a lot more than w/ trackballs or trackpads. Second, people almost invariably tend to grab the mouse with more force than necessary.


Let's settle that in Counter Strike.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:38 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:Then again, real programmers use the Command Line :D

Real programmers use butterflies... http://www.xkcd.com/378/

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:38 pm UTC

Soral wrote:Has anybody tried sitting on an exercise ball at a desk? I haven't yet, but the idea of working the core muscles appeals to me. I imagine that you'd have to work up to a full work day.

I used to have one of those Balans chairs that you kneel in. Very difficult to get in and out of if you've got both hands full of stuff, and the frame broke in a matter of weeks after I got it.

I saved the knee and seat cushions and the stretchers and now keep them in the car trunk in case I need to change tires. Nobody's ever come up with a good reason for kneeling on the loose jagged gravel that caused you to have a blowout in the first place.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby chalkie » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:57 am UTC

Soral wrote:Has anybody tried sitting on an exercise ball at a desk? I haven't yet, but the idea of working the core muscles appeals to me. I imagine that you'd have to work up to a full work day.


My 12 year-old daughter was recommended by her physiotherapist to use an exercise ball while sitting at her desk at home doing homework. She gets on with it quite well, although if she lets her mind wander then she occasionally falls off. Her bedroom is directly above my office, so I hear a loud thump (and a distant "Oww") and it gives me something to giggle about.

I'm all in favour.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:01 am UTC

Flumble wrote:
orthogon wrote:Ironically, whereas the ordinarily mouse can fall off the back of the desk or get lost under papers, the clit mouse is always easy to find.

I think you need to rearrange your priorities: it's best if you don't push stuff off you desk or bury it beneath paper.

To be honest I just wanted to make a clitoris joke. But it's true that my desk is piled up pretty high with papers, and our cleaner is rather zealous and moves everything to clean the desk, meaning that I often have to search for the mouse when I get in in the morning.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby The Moomin » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:35 am UTC

So, is the whole standing at the desk a scam to overcharge people for "work done" and "standing time" since they are concurrent?
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Whizbang » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:02 pm UTC

Wait. I can charge for standing time?

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:53 pm UTC

Soral wrote:Has anybody tried sitting on an exercise ball at a desk? I haven't yet, but the idea of working the core muscles appeals to me. I imagine that you'd have to work up to a full work day.

I had one of those in primary school, although I don't remember what for, some balance thing maybe. I didn't get the idea I was exercising, and didn't fall regularly. The only issue I had was with standing up, you should consider that they are balls and therefore have a tendency to keep moving.

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:42 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Wait. I can charge for standing time?


Not me. I can't stand Time.

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Be glad it's not the punsaw...

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:10 pm UTC

*tosses small candies at Klear*
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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby cryptoengineer » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:36 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:Somehow I doubt he'll ever catch that deer... I still think the strapping your laptop to your belly and typing while walking is a better option (although it looks kinda geeky).


Believe it or not, if he's reasonably fit, he probably will. Deer and most other 'prey animals' have evolved to deal with predators which can run very fast, but only in bursts. Humans (like wolves) can keep going for miles, and for hours. The deer will stop after a hundred yards or so, and the human will come up and start it running again. Rinse and repeat, and after not too long, the deer will collapse from overheat and exhaustion. The term of art is 'cursorial hunting'.

TL,DNR: Humans can dogtrot most other animals to death.

I like the idea of a standing desk, but have never been in a situation where I could have a decent one - you want to alternate standing and sitting periods, so either a high chair or an adjustable desk are required. You also need a soft mat to stand on.

I've used a walking desk a couple times - it was fine for reading email, but anything that required typing and/or serious concentration was out, at least for me.

CE.

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Re: Be glad it's not the punsaw...

Postby Klear » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:50 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:*tosses small candies at Klear*


Argh! Not the face!

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby hungryjoe » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:55 pm UTC

cryptoengineer wrote:Believe it or not, if he's reasonably fit, he probably will. Deer and most other 'prey animals' have evolved to deal with predators which can run very fast, but only in bursts. Humans (like wolves) can keep going for miles, and for hours. The deer will stop after a hundred yards or so, and the human will come up and start it running again. Rinse and repeat, and after not too long, the deer will collapse from overheat and exhaustion. The term of art is 'cursorial hunting'.

TL,DNR: Humans can dogtrot most other animals to death.



I can't cite anything for this, but I remember my my Dad saying that it takes about 80 miles of running until a person would out-perform a horse.

The wikipedia article on persistence hunting suggests "about two to five hours over 25 to 35 km" for a kudu (which is apparently a type of antelope).

It's possible we have different definitions of "after not too long".

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby EnaiSiaion » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:33 pm UTC

Let's combine several modern technologies to create the perfect working spot:

WIFI
+
RASPBERRY PI
+
DRONE
+
TABLET

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:54 pm UTC

hungryjoe wrote:
cryptoengineer wrote:Believe it or not, if he's reasonably fit, he probably will. Deer and most other 'prey animals' have evolved to deal with predators which can run very fast, but only in bursts. Humans (like wolves) can keep going for miles, and for hours. The deer will stop after a hundred yards or so, and the human will come up and start it running again. Rinse and repeat, and after not too long, the deer will collapse from overheat and exhaustion. The term of art is 'cursorial hunting'.

TL,DNR: Humans can dogtrot most other animals to death.



I can't cite anything for this, but I remember my my Dad saying that it takes about 80 miles of running until a person would out-perform a horse.

The wikipedia article on persistence hunting suggests "about two to five hours over 25 to 35 km" for a kudu (which is apparently a type of antelope).

It's possible we have different definitions of "after not too long".


Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels include the assertion that a human can outrun a horse over very short distances too - we have better acceleration and settle into a gait faster, so we can establish a lead while the horse is still sorting its legs out...

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Re: 1329: "Standing"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:57 pm UTC

EnaiSiaion wrote:Let's combine several modern technologies to create the perfect working spot:

WIFI
+
RASPBERRY PI
+
DRONE
+
TABLET

Brilliant. No legs to the desk means no legroom issues, and height adjustable from zero to 60,000 ft. What does the pi do though?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.


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