1190: "Time"

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:18 pm UTC

Can we please spoiler that image already? Pretty please???
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

ggh wrote:
stars3.png


Wow, that's so sad about the papacy. Fun page things made ketching up seem so much cheerier.
Wish you had told me this yesterday; I just spent hours on the wiki because a top-of-pager requested it. :(

They're all fun and games until nearly half the posts on a age are near or total gibberish, occasionally in *cough* a foreign language.
That page wasn't much fun to read.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:21 pm UTC

HAL9000 wrote:They're all fun and games until nearly half the posts on a age are near or total gibberish, occasionally in *cough* a foreign language.
That page wasn't much fun to read.

It is if you read it the way I read it. :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:24 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
HAL9000 wrote:They're all fun and games until nearly half the posts on a age are near or total gibberish, occasionally in *cough* a foreign language.
That page wasn't much fun to read.

It is if you read it the way I read it. :D

Does that qualify as not reading it ALL??? Or I suppose it could merely qualify as a misinterpretation... which is to be expected and forgiven in a flameless party such as this. In which case is it fair game to misinterpret rot13 as gibberish and morse code as poorly constructed horizontal emoticons?

ETA: As SUPREME EMPEROR I demand that my principle of Blitzus Annoyus be invoked or the remainder of the page be written in rot13-morse-spanish! (please please please choose the prior and then continue analyzing times and dates and locations)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:27 pm UTC

I invoke Blitzus Annoyus on our SUPREME EMPEROR!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:27 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:I invoke Blitzus Annoyus on our SUPREME EMPEROR!
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YAY! and there was much rejoicing
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

edo wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
edo wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


It's on the ecliptic, it's probably the second planet we've been waiting for!


11/7/2013 shows no other planets in the vicinity. It would have to be some other year -- who knows when and where... I'm not going to look for that unlikely conjunction.


Look for a planet that passes through that point, there should be only one. I'm going to guess Saturn based on brightness.


Just did this... Seems that no other planets pass here.

Due to Venus being within our orbit, it's the only planet1 with 2 paths leading to its apex which is right where it is now. All other planets have a single arc across the whole sky and they are all near the equatorial ecliptic.

Here's Mars's path.
Image

All the other planets have very close trajectories and do not pass through the anomaly.

EDIT: 1Okay there is Mercury, but it is out of the question here. Mercury will have already set with the sun.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

As for the sparkly dot in the wrong place, it's possible that could be a planet. Could also be a satellite as Angua suggested, though I suppose we'd have to wait to see it move to tell.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Valarya » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

42isall wrote:What if this entire thing was really just an incredibly elaborate game of GeoGuessr?
http://xkcd.com/1214/

I giggle every time I see this one.. because I live in Nashville. :mrgreen:
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Vytron » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

- Blindpost -

Angelastic wrote:I'd just like to tentatively welcome Vytron to the comic. Here is a cake for you:

Spoiler:
Image


(edited because although I actually was looking for that particular post so I'd also know who the dissimulated cat was, I didn't realise I'd actually found it, so I put the wrong name. It's too bad nobody claimed 'something disguised as a cat', because they could have a chance here.)


Thank you Angelastic! You were the only person in the entire thread that remembered I called dibs on being the first cat to appear in the OTC, always dreaming of having a small moment of LaPetite=BlitzGirl there :mrgreen: - Alas, the jury returned and the verdict certainly was "it's KarMann"...*

Unless it turned out to be a fossa, in such case I'm totally fine with it being KarMann! :)

charlie_grumbles wrote:Goodbye. I can no longer participate in this thread. I've been dealt with unjustly and just got an unsatisfactory answer to my concerns from Kieryn. I do not intend to contribute any further.

My case is that I had the ONG for something like five minutes. I was waiting for Kieryn to remove his. then this happened. He had a post immediately after mine for a considerable time with the newpic.

I also got unsatisfactory, even patronizing responses from some of you also.

It was fun until it wasn't. Yes, it is a small thing, but I thought I had earned some respect.


WHAT?

WHAAAT?

Oh my grumbles, so this is why you changed your avatar to a black box :(

This is certainly, the saddest moment of the OTT, because, all the other people that have gone MIA over Time, at least, we know, can, or even, will return, at some point. But charlie_grumbles won't (and I know, because I'm the kind of person that leaves online communities like that, to never come back, even if people send me messages begging me to stay - if charlie_grumbles is anything like that, he'll be gone, forever...)

RIP

bye.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:30 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
HAL9000 wrote:They're all fun and games until nearly half the posts on a age are near or total gibberish, occasionally in *cough* a foreign language.
That page wasn't much fun to read.

It is if you read it the way I read it. :D

Your posts did make that page a little easier to handle. Time Quenches All Flames anyways, so hopefully we'll have found a happy medium between silly and nonexistent.

I also want to add that I am amazed by how beautiful the OTC had become, and also amazed that I can find so much beauty in a stick figure webcomic. I suppose that when the baseline is fairly minimalist, any embellishment is extraordinary.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby fhorn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

BlueCrab wrote:Running in circles, waving arms and screaming - is that a reference to Heinlein's advice?
‘When in danger
or in doubt,
Run in circles,
scream and shout.’

Actually i just looked the phrase up and it's certainly not original to Heinlein, is it?


Why, yes, yes it is, good ol' Heinlein, we go way back...... :wink:
No. Not at all. It was just that people were being all rational about the Darkening and I thought mass hysteria was a far more appropriate response, so I tried to get that going. TOTALLY UNSUCCESSFUL! Push comes to shove and logic rules the day - who knew???!? :shock:


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Hemisphere of north or south
Will seem so true

If your app shows just the scene
No conclusion is extreme
When you map upon a star
As Waiters do

Time is kind
It brings to those who Wait
The sweet agreement that
They're in Cassini

Like a molp out of the blue
Geotags will come to you
When you map upon a star
You Wait anew
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby ChronosDragon » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

A satellite, maybe. But I'm leaning towards UFO/alien spaceship. The one that took the moon!

ETA: Excellent filk, fhorn :D
Last edited by ChronosDragon on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:32 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby taixzo » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:32 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:As for the sparkly dot in the wrong place, it's possible that could be a planet. Could also be a satellite as Angua suggested, though I suppose we'd have to wait to see it move to tell.


What if it were in fact a high-altitude airliner's navigation light?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edo » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:33 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:
edo wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
edo wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


It's on the ecliptic, it's probably the second planet we've been waiting for!


11/7/2013 shows no other planets in the vicinity. It would have to be some other year -- who knows when and where... I'm not going to look for that unlikely conjunction.


Look for a planet that passes through that point, there should be only one. I'm going to guess Saturn based on brightness.


Just did this... Seems that no other planets pass here.

Due to Venus being within our orbit, it's the only planet with 2 paths leading to its apex which is right where it is now. All other planets have a single arc across the whole sky and they are all near the equatorial.

Here's Mars's path.
Spoiler:
Image


All the other planets have very close trajectories and do not pass through the anomaly.


Huh. A satellite? We'll see if it moves quickly.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:As for the sparkly dot in the wrong place, it's possible that could be a planet. Could also be a satellite as Angua suggested, though I suppose we'd have to wait to see it move to tell.


Not a planet - as I indicated.

Also if it's a satellite then it must be geostationary because it was in the same place for two frames.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

Image

We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
Image

ETA: This assumes, of course, that they're on actual Earth, not in some Randallversian place like Cassini.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby thirds » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:35 pm UTC

That dot has remained stationary relative to its neighbor in the two frames in which it has appeared.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:39 pm UTC

This frame looks fantastic in Chrome. Very 7.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:40 pm UTC

mscha wrote:Image

We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
Image


Nice work - but you are forgetting to take into account the earth's axial tilt and the time of year, which is what gives us seasons etc. Please redo your calculation with the date being November 7th. We would all love to know the exact latitude!
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby EraObserver » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:42 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:
mscha wrote:Image

We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
Image


Nice work - but you are forgetting to take into account the earth's axial tilt and the time of year, which is what gives us seasons etc. Please redo your calculation with the date being November 7th. We would all love to know the exact latitude!


Are we still assuming that they must be near a southern coast?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:44 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:Image

We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
Image

Nice work - but you are forgetting to take into account the earth's axial tilt and the time of year, which is what gives us seasons etc. Please redo your calculation with the date being November 7th. We would all love to know the exact latitude!

Axial tilt and time of year play no role here, that's only interesting for the movement of the sun over the year, not of the sun and stars over the course of an hour or so.
The only thing that's relevant is the earth's rotation around its axis. The fact that it rotates around the sun (using an axis that is not parallel to the earth axis) is irrelevant.

See here for a diagram that shows that the angle of the path the sun (and stars) take through sunrise is pretty much constant throughout the year. Sunset is obviously the same.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby HAL9000 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

EraObserver wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
mscha wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
[]Image


Nice work - but you are forgetting to take into account the earth's axial tilt and the time of year, which is what gives us seasons etc. Please redo your calculation with the date being November 7th. We would all love to know the exact latitude!


Are we still assuming that they must be near a southern coast?

If so, the Caspian Sea looks like it could fit, but not with the other environmental factors. What's along that line on a Cassini Earth?
Last edited by HAL9000 on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

They could conceivably be near the Gulf of California. The wowtrees would be wrong, but wouldn't they also be wrong for Africa? The cat could have been a mountain lion, and the other molpies make sense for America right?

eta: oh, also someone mentioned the fact that the Colorado River, known for it's canyons, doesn't reach the sea and varies with how close it gets, right?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

Dead Sea has been suggested before. That falls within the range.
The Grandidier's Baobab is certainly out of place, anywhere on 33 degrees north.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby jovialbard » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

HAL9000 wrote:If so, the Caspian Sea looks like it could fit, but not with the other environmental factors. What's along that line on a Cassini Earth?

The (then) North coast of Africa directly south of Madagascar would be in that vicinity... Though, that would be a north facing beach...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby BlitzGirl » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:50 pm UTC

jovialbard wrote:They could conceivably be near the Gulf of California. The wowtrees would be wrong, but wouldn't they also be wrong for Africa? The cat could have been a mountain lion, and the other molpies make sense for America right?

I think the body type of the raptorcat is wrong for a mountain lion. Keyboard or jaguar would be a better fit.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:52 pm UTC

jovialbard wrote:
HAL9000 wrote:If so, the Caspian Sea looks like it could fit, but not with the other environmental factors. What's along that line on a Cassini Earth?

The (then) North coast of Africa directly south of Madagascar would be in that vicinity... Though, that would be a north facing beach...

What If wrote:Sinking air is cool and dry, so land under the outer edges of the Hadley cells tends to be arid. These regions, lying a bit poleward of 30 degrees, are known as the horse latitudes.
Image

I.e., the northernmost of the two lines is pretty much our range.
Of course, my calculations and/or Randall's map drawing skills could be off by enough that we might be on Cassini Madagascar after all.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:53 pm UTC

Okay, quick in the head calculation... I'm pretty sure there's a wrong assumption in here, but...


Nov 7th is pretty much exactly halfway between the equinox and the solstice.
The earth's tilt is about 23.4 degrees.

Past the fall equinox, the northern hemisphere tilts away from the sun, so to give the same result that mscha has, you would have to move the latitude south by 11.7 degrees.

So the latitude is actually about 21 degrees?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:55 pm UTC

Kieryn wrote:Okay, quick in the head calculation... I'm pretty sure there's a wrong assumption in here, but...
Nov 7th is pretty much exactly halfway between the equinox and the solstice.
The earth's tilt is about 23.4 degrees.
Past the fall equinox, the northern hemisphere tilts away from the sun, so to give the same result that mscha has, you would have to move the latitude south by 11.7 degrees.
So the latitude is actually about 21 degrees?

33 degrees. See above.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:59 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
Kieryn wrote:Okay, quick in the head calculation... I'm pretty sure there's a wrong assumption in here, but...
Nov 7th is pretty much exactly halfway between the equinox and the solstice.
The earth's tilt is about 23.4 degrees.
Past the fall equinox, the northern hemisphere tilts away from the sun, so to give the same result that mscha has, you would have to move the latitude south by 11.7 degrees.
So the latitude is actually about 21 degrees?

33 degrees. See above.


Respectfully disagree -- if the angle remained constant, then a setting sun at the equator would always be at 90 degrees to the horizon, which it is not.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Rule110 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:00 pm UTC

mscha wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:Image

We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
Image

Nice work - but you are forgetting to take into account the earth's axial tilt and the time of year, which is what gives us seasons etc. Please redo your calculation with the date being November 7th. We would all love to know the exact latitude!

Axial tilt and time of year play no role here, that's only interesting for the movement of the sun over the year, not of the sun and stars over the course of an hour or so.
The only thing that's relevant is the earth's rotation around its axis. The fact that it rotates around the sun (using an axis that is not parallel to the earth axis) is irrelevant.

See here for a diagram that shows that the angle of the path the sun (and stars) take through sunrise is pretty much constant throughout the year. Sunset is obviously the same.


That diagram is misleading. The angle of the path taken through sunrise is constant if you're always looking due west and creating an image on a plane perpendicular to due west. But the apparent angle of the path changes as you look different directions, and because the compass direction of the point on the horizon where the sun sets changes with the latitude and season, the apparent angle of sunrise (and sunset) also changes with the latitude and season.

Another way of stating Kieryn's objection is that your diagram assumes that the camera of Time in the present scene is aimed due west, so the sun is setting due west (since it set pretty close to the horizontal center of the frame). In other words, it assumes that it's an equinox.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Ximenez » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:02 pm UTC

AnONGmaly.
Image

ETA: Is the anomaly getting brighter, or is it me wanting it to do something?

ETA 2: An hour later, this frame was changed and the anomaly disappeared. The original frame looked like this (courtesy mscha):
Image
Last edited by Ximenez on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:23 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Kieryn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:06 pm UTC

Ximenez wrote:AnONGmaly.
Image



As long as there remains no moon in view
Westward we shall continue

Okay heading home now. I will be back in 2-3 newpix. Maybe the moon will beat me to it :-)
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:06 pm UTC

Animation update:
Spoiler:
Image
Corner color update:
Spoiler:
np2352: #ffffff/#fefefe/#000000/#000000
np2353: #ffffff/#fcfcfc/#000000/#000000
np2354: #ffffff/#fbfbfb/#000000/#000000
np2355: #ffffff/#fafafa/#000000/#000000
np2356: #ffffff/#f9f9f9/#000000/#000000
np2357: #ffffff/#f7f7f7/#000000/#000000
np2358: #ffffff/#efefef/#000000/#000000
np2359: #ffffff/#e9e9e9/#000000/#000000
np2360: #fbfbfb/#e3e3e3/#000000/#000000
np2361: #f2f2f2/#dcdcdc/#000000/#000000
np2362: #e9e9e9/#d5d5d5/#000000/#000000
np2363: #dfdfdf/#cecece/#000000/#000000
np2364: #d5d5d5/#c6c6c6/#000000/#000000
np2365: #d0d0d0/#c2c2c2/#000000/#000000
np2366: #cdcdcd/#c0c0c0/#000000/#000000
np2367: #cacaca/#c0c0c0/#000000/#000000
np2368: #c8c8c8/#bfbfbf/#000000/#000000
np2369: #c6c6c6/#bdbdbd/#000000/#000000
np2370: #c0c0c0/#b8b8b8/#000000/#000000
np2371: #b2b2b2/#ababab/#000000/#000000
np2372: #a9a9a9/#a2a2a2/#000000/#000000
np2373: #989898/#919191/#000000/#000000
np2374: #8f8f8f/#8b8b8b/#000000/#000000
np2375: #828282/#7e7e7e/#000000/#000000
np2376: #727272/#707070/#000000/#000000
np2377: #6a6a6a/#696969/#000000/#000000
np2378: #636363/#626262/#000000/#000000
np2379: #5a5a5a/#595959/#000000/#000000
np2380: #505050/#4f4f4f/#000000/#000000
np2381: #4c4c4c/#4c4c4c/#000000/#000000
np2382: #434343/#434343/#000000/#000000
np2383: #333333/#353535/#000000/#000000
np2384: #242424/#262626/#000000/#000000
np2385: #1c1c1c/#1f1f1f/#000000/#000000
np2386: #171717/#191919/#000000/#000000
np2387: #151515/#171717/#000000/#000000
np2388: #141414/#151515/#000000/#000000
np2389: #121212/#141414/#000000/#000000
np2390: #101010/#111111/#000000/#000000
np2391: #0d0d0d/#0f0f0f/#000000/#000000
np2392: #0b0b0b/#0d0d0d/#000000/#000000
np2393: #0a0a0a/#0c0c0c/#000000/#000000
np2394: #070707/#070707/#000000/#000000
The last frame is suddenly a lot darker again...
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby edfel » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:07 pm UTC

Thanks a lot Kieryn for this precise investigation! I didn't know Stellarium, but I've immediatly adopted it :)
I wonder: did you pick 2013 as the closest-to-now year in which this setting of venus can appear, or is there something unique this year that I'm not seeing in this image? 'cause I've tried with more advanced years, and I got lucky in Feb. 8976:
Venus8976.png

[excuse the French... "Date et heure" is "Date and Time", "Situation" is "Location", "Vénus" is...oh, wait, Captain Obvious is called elsewhere! y'all will need to figure the rest yourselves :)]

Anyway, we now have good clues for the latitude; with a moon or other planets we'll probably have date and longitude... how exciting! and all this with the nicest frames so far :) :) :)

On the other hand, I really whished it would be a fictional planet, but the stars are matching far too good for this place to be anything that doesn't follow the Earth's orbit. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that GLR took some liberties regarding the passing of time, sun-wise compared to Cuegan-wise (according to the sun, an hour or so should have passed in the time they discussed sleeping... that's a bit lengthy, IMO)
Fianally the map needs strongs adjustments (it appears that they are currently heading roughly north... not west:( )

Also, 100th ! Err... callipygous ! :D
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby itaibn » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:12 pm UTC

Would anyone please summarize what we know so far in terms of locating the OTC with astronomy?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby Eutychus » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

I am going to have to coma now. I can't add much to the science or astronomy so I'll just have to add my musings.

I agree with those who find this series of newpix particularly beautiful as the stars wheel across the night sky.

That anomaly is something too. Imagine that we did get a universe swap-out and just one star was different. Would we notice?

Finally, to add to the music collection, can I suggest What a wonderful world? Or possibly Israel Kamakawiwoʻole's mashup of it with Somewhere over the rainbow?
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby mscha » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:13 pm UTC

Rule110 wrote:
Spoiler:
mscha wrote:
Kieryn wrote:
mscha wrote:Image

We're looking towards the western horizon.
The red arrow is the trajectory of the brightest object, possibly Venus.
Since the earth spins on its axis, the axis is perpendicular to this line. So, the green line is parallel to the earth axis.
The angle of the earth axis with the horizon is about 33 degrees.

Conclusion: Cuegan is at approx. latitude 33 degrees north, i.e. somewhere within the red zone of this map.
Image

Nice work - but you are forgetting to take into account the earth's axial tilt and the time of year, which is what gives us seasons etc. Please redo your calculation with the date being November 7th. We would all love to know the exact latitude!

Axial tilt and time of year play no role here, that's only interesting for the movement of the sun over the year, not of the sun and stars over the course of an hour or so.
The only thing that's relevant is the earth's rotation around its axis. The fact that it rotates around the sun (using an axis that is not parallel to the earth axis) is irrelevant.

See here for a diagram that shows that the angle of the path the sun (and stars) take through sunrise is pretty much constant throughout the year. Sunset is obviously the same.
That diagram is misleading. The angle of the path taken through sunrise is constant if you're always looking due west and creating an image on a plane perpendicular to due west. But the apparent angle of the path changes as you look different directions, and because the compass direction of the point on the horizon where the sun sets changes with the latitude and season, the apparent angle of sunrise (and sunset) also changes with the latitude and season.

Another way of stating Kieryn's objection is that your diagram assumes that the camera of Time in the present scene is aimed due west, so the sun is setting due west (since it set pretty close to the horizontal center of the frame). In other words, it assumes that it's an equinox.

You have a valid point there.
But I'm pretty sure that this won't make a significant difference, at least at the lower latitudes. It's way over my head to do those calculations, and I haven't been able to google much – apparently, astronomers aren't so much interested in this angle. (It's the azimuth that you can find all over the place.)
I'm fairly sure that we stay within 30-35 degrees, depending on the time of year.
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Re: 1190: "Time"

Postby SBN » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:17 pm UTC

edfel wrote:Thanks a lot Kieryn for this precise investigation! I didn't know Stellarium, but I've immediatly adopted it :)
I wonder: did you pick 2013 as the closest-to-now year in which this setting of venus can appear, or is there something unique this year that I'm not seeing in this image? 'cause I've tried with more advanced years, and I got lucky in Feb. 8976:

Puts a whole different spin on "maybe that's when it ends," doesn't it?
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