1852: "Election Map"

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1852: "Election Map"

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:43 pm UTC

Image
Title text : Luckily for my interpretation, no precincts were won by the Green Party.

The original OP, who didn't follow the rules and thus shall not receive recognition for making this post, wrote:I would say that Team Instinct still has not taken any Pokemon Go gyms.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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Re: 1852: Election Map

Postby speising » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:53 pm UTC


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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby karhell » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:08 pm UTC

To sum up, in a somewhat less passive-aggressive manner, there are a couple of things to fix : First is the omission of quotation marks around the comic title (should be 1852: "Election Map"). Next, you'd need to post the actual comic, with link, and include the title-text in your post.
That said, having less than 5 posts, cjcampbell physically cannot post the comic or link to it (and so should have refrained from creating the thread, but what's one is done, better to just clean up the mess and move on), so here they are until either cjcampbell posts twice more and edits them into their post, or one of the moderators takes pity does so instead out of exasperation.

Image
Title text : Luckily for my interpretation, no precincts were won by the Green Party.
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Re: 1852: Election Map

Postby Wee Red Bird » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:19 pm UTC

Wouldn't it be green around the axis of rotation?

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Re: 1852: Election Map

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:27 pm UTC

I've decided I'm going to fix the original post when it's done incorrectly, and then change it so it looks like I made it in the first place.

If you want the recognition or whatever it is that motivates people to rush to making the first post about a comic, then post correctly.
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:57 pm UTC

Ah, now I understand why US election reporting appears to use the colours the other way around to Europe. It's because of Doppler shifts caused by the relative motion.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Reka » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:58 pm UTC

This sounds about like how I'd analyze election results.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby petercooperjr » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:16 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Ah, now I understand why US election reporting appears to use the colours the other way around to Europe.

Does everywhere in Europe use consistent colors? The US didn't have consistency before 2000, when the contentious presidential election caused the coining of the term "red states" and "blue states" based on what the colors happened to be that particular year (and the terms caught on and have been used ever since).

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby rundlesm » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:43 pm UTC

I don't recognise then shape of the map.
Where is that map of?

(Not that it makes any difference as, because of the reasons given, its going to spin round its own axis sooner of later anyway. )

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby airdrik » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:46 pm UTC

As you can see, there is a warm front moving in from the Northwest. However it is encountering some resistance from the established cold air masses in the South and East, resulting in some stormy weather in this region here.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm UTC

petercooperjr wrote:
orthogon wrote:Ah, now I understand why US election reporting appears to use the colours the other way around to Europe.

Does everywhere in Europe use consistent colors? The US didn't have consistency before 2000, when the contentious presidential election caused the coining of the term "red states" and "blue states" based on what the colors happened to be that particular year (and the terms caught on and have been used ever since).

I don't know for sure, but red has been the colour of the political left since at least the Russian Revolution. Blue is the obvious primary colour to choose as the opposite, i guess. The convention is reflected in the EU regulation on the position of hot and cold taps: the (red) hot tap is on the left and the (blue) cold is on the right. (It might be coincidence, but it's a good mnemonic all the same).

Maybe the thing is that neither main US party wants to be associated with Socialism or Communism, and assigning red to the Republicans avoids any suggestion that the colours are intended to convey those meanings.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Reka » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:25 pm UTC

rundlesm wrote:I don't recognise then shape of the map.
Where is that map of?

explainxkcd says Georgia's 6th congressional district.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby qvxb » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:25 pm UTC

The cause of the rotation may be a woman, as proposed by physicist and musician Thomas Roe in 1969.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby JohnTheWysard » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm UTC

I just sometimes wish that some of the red districts WOULD leave, at a redshift of about 0.3 or better.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:58 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:red has been the colour of the political left since at least the Russian Revolution. Blue is the obvious primary colour to choose as the opposite, i guess. The convention is reflected in the EU regulation on the position of hot and cold taps: the (red) hot tap is on the left and the (blue) cold is on the right. (It might be coincidence, but it's a good mnemonic all the same).


And port wine is red. As is the light on the port, that is to say left, side of a ship.

It's all beginning to make sense!

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby madaco » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:20 pm UTC

What if,

we took some political observer, with some set of positions, and checked how the average positions of each district compared to those of that observer, at 2 (or more) different times, and used that to determine some notion of "relative velocity", and then chose levels of red or blue shifts based on those to color the districts with?

We could also look at whether the districts got closer or further from each other, and use that to draw mountains or other sorts of fault lines, like in the comic when the white beret guy is moving towards his roommate
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby cellocgw » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:49 pm UTC

In related news,

SCOTUS has agreed to hear a gerrymandering case. Will wonders never cease.
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:19 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
petercooperjr wrote:
orthogon wrote:Ah, now I understand why US election reporting appears to use the colours the other way around to Europe.

Does everywhere in Europe use consistent colors? The US didn't have consistency before 2000, when the contentious presidential election caused the coining of the term "red states" and "blue states" based on what the colors happened to be that particular year (and the terms caught on and have been used ever since).

I don't know for sure, but red has been the colour of the political left since at least the Russian Revolution. Blue is the obvious primary colour to choose as the opposite, i guess. The convention is reflected in the EU regulation on the position of hot and cold taps: the (red) hot tap is on the left and the (blue) cold is on the right. (It might be coincidence, but it's a good mnemonic all the same).

Maybe the thing is that neither main US party wants to be associated with Socialism or Communism, and assigning red to the Republicans avoids any suggestion that the colours are intended to convey those meanings.

Blue is also historically the signature color of liberalism. Originally in the "classical liberal" sense that among US political parties more closely matches the Libertarians than the Democrats. But the Democrats are still called "liberals" in a now-different sense, so blue being their color makes some sense. As does blue being the color of the right wing in Europe, where "liberal" still means something more like what the US calls "libertarian", and "liberalism" in that sense is nominally a major plank of right-wing parties.
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby superpatty » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:49 pm UTC

rundlesm wrote:I don't recognise then shape of the map.
Where is that map of?

(Not that it makes any difference as, because of the reasons given, its going to spin round its own axis sooner of later anyway. )


This is a map of the 6th House district in Georgia where Karen Handel and John Ossoff are running to fill the seat vacated by Tom Price when he was appointed HHS secretary

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby jgh » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:08 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
petercooperjr wrote:
orthogon wrote:Ah, now I understand why US election reporting appears to use the colours the other way around to Europe.
Does everywhere in Europe use consistent colors? (...)
I don't know for sure, but red has been the colour of the political left since at least the Russian Revolution. Blue is the obvious primary colour to choose as the opposite, i guess. (...)

Blue has been the colour of the political right since about the mid-19th century, adding The People's Deepest Red from the late 19th/early 20th gives more than 100 years of consistant colouration.

Pfhorrest wrote:Blue is also historically the signature color of liberalism. ...
No, yellow is the traditional colour of liberalism, from at least the mid-19th century. I've got some political art from around about then calling for people to choose between "the blues (Conservatives) and the yellows (Liberals)". Appropriately, the colours are complementary as well.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:42 am UTC

jgh wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Blue is also historically the signature color of liberalism. ...
No, yellow is the traditional colour of liberalism, from at least the mid-19th century. I've got some political art from around about then calling for people to choose between "the blues (Conservatives) and the yellows (Liberals)". Appropriately, the colours are complementary as well.

Wouldn't that get a little mixed up today in Commonwealth countries (at least the UK and Australia) where "liberal" parties are generally conservative? If you're (classically) liberal and anti-socialist and therefore conservative by today's standards, are you a blue or a yellow? For that matter, in the mid-19th century you speak of (in what country?), were the "conservatives" like theocrats and monarchists and the "liberals" actually (classically) liberal, or were the "conservatives" classical liberals and the "liberals" actually socialists?
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:24 am UTC

My husband's uncles in Taiwan sent out Christmas cards several years ago with themselves wearing the colors of the political party they supported in the then-current elections. Various parties would start out with one color and would then divide in two, with the resulting two new parties taking new colors. It was all very confusing. Dark blue and light blue and I don't know what all.

I just Googled "Taiwan party colors" and retrieved the most horrific unintended Google search results ever. (For me--I'm sure everyone here has their own traumatic search results.)

Wow. I had not heard about the Formosa Fun Coast explosion before. That could easily happen elsewhere. And on that cheery note, I'm going to bed.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby da Doctah » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:20 am UTC

jgh wrote:yellow is the traditional colour of liberalism, from at least the mid-19th century. I've got some political art from around about then calling for people to choose between "the blues (Conservatives) and the yellows (Liberals)". Appropriately, the colours are complementary as well.


So the "Yellow Rose" of Texas is called that for political reasons and not because she's mixed-race?

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:17 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
jgh wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Blue is also historically the signature color of liberalism. ...
No, yellow is the traditional colour of liberalism, from at least the mid-19th century. I've got some political art from around about then calling for people to choose between "the blues (Conservatives) and the yellows (Liberals)". Appropriately, the colours are complementary as well.

Wouldn't that get a little mixed up today in Commonwealth countries (at least the UK and Australia) where "liberal" parties are generally conservative? If you're (classically) liberal and anti-socialist and therefore conservative by today's standards, are you a blue or a yellow? For that matter, in the mid-19th century you speak of (in what country?), were the "conservatives" like theocrats and monarchists and the "liberals" actually (classically) liberal, or were the "conservatives" classical liberals and the "liberals" actually socialists?


Here in the UK, the "Liberal Democrats" - the moderate/center party, insofar as the left-right continuum makes sense - are yellow/orange (the SNP - Scottish National Party - are also yellow, and a brighter yellow, so Lib Dems get a more orange yellow).

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Himself » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:42 pm UTC

The interpretation depends on the position of the observation point. There may very well be some sort of convergence or divergence occurring along a SW-NE axis.
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby ManaUser » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:45 am UTC

Incidentally, for those outside the US who may not know, it's only been since disputed election of 2000 that the colors really got standardized. Since election coverage went on talking about "red states" and "blue states" for weeks, the terms really sunk in at that point. But even so, the colors aren't strongly associated with the parties for any purpose besides election maps. Red, white and blue (our flag colors of course) are associated with elections in general, so alot of election materials will use all three in various quantities, regardless of which party it's supporting. Don't know if that's any different from Europe etc.

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:14 am UTC

UK material tends to follow the very definite sanctioned-party-colours scheme. Mind you, even if there's a (nominal) cap on funding well below the millions that SuperPACs throw at single rallies, there seems to be enough in the coffers to no longer have any (major, or even half-way respectable minor) party candidate for even a no-hope-in-hell council seat have to sell themselves with photocopied monochromatic leaflets, any more.

I suspect Party HQs put them in touch with a printshop who do a good bulk discount on the best quality glossy flyers you can get. Maybe even they help with the formattin band wording, with standard templates, but not sure about checking the final text.

But here's a nice mix of the "three major party colours" for effect... Even if it's the old cliche of "vote A, get B, you'd be better off voting C..."


As for flashing the Union Flag and the Ted White And Blue, that's just not (ironically) very British. Or too much, harkening back to the British National Party. Also confusing when not being representative of Labour-plus-Conservative 'conversation' as part of the argument being printed. Maybe there'd be something flag-like as minor decoration or unobtrusive photographic background item, mostly. But the connotations tend to be strong, even if pride in the Olympics have made the flag nice again in non-political situations.

Even UKIP tend to place prominence on their purple-and-yellow theme, on proper handouts. (Not sure how this crept through, or when. Surely can't be recently...)

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Keyman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 pm UTC

superpatty wrote:
rundlesm wrote:I don't recognise then shape of the map.
Where is that map of?

(Not that it makes any difference as, because of the reasons given, its going to spin round its own axis sooner of later anyway. )


This is a map of the 6th House district in Georgia where Karen Handel and John Ossoff are running to fill the seat vacated by Tom Price when he was appointed HHS secretary

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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:32 pm UTC

ManaUser wrote:Incidentally, for those outside the US who may not know, it's only been since disputed election of 2000 that the colors really got standardized. Since election coverage went on talking about "red states" and "blue states" for weeks, the terms really sunk in at that point. But even so, the colors aren't strongly associated with the parties for any purpose besides election maps. Red, white and blue (our flag colors of course) are associated with elections in general, so alot of election materials will use all three in various quantities, regardless of which party it's supporting. Don't know if that's any different from Europe etc.

It's hard to imagine that this was the case for so long, having to check a key to figure out which color represented which candidate on this particular network this particular year. Was it just a lucky break that every network happened to use the same colors that year for a change? I'd love to see screencaps of official election maps from previous years, if that weren't fundamentally impossible to Google.
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Re: 1852: "Election Map"

Postby timrem » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:39 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:I'd love to see screencaps of official election maps from previous years, if that weren't fundamentally impossible to Google.


From a quick search, I found a few pictures over at http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/w ... 104176297/ with red for Democrats and blue for Republicans.


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