[T] MoA Replay - Game Over - Mafia wins - FBI loses

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[T] MoA Replay - Game Over - Mafia wins - FBI loses

Postby MasterOfAll » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:12 pm UTC

Game is active. Feel free to sign up as a replacement either in the sign-up thread or by sending me a PM.

We are playing a game of Reverse Mafia, which is actually a pretty simple setup, since it is basically just a game with 1 cult and no scum team. But, to keep everyone on their toes, we are going to change all the terminology we usually use, so now . . .
Day=night. NK=lynch. Mafia=town.

Here are all the rules-related posts from the previous game, edited only slightly . . .


General concept of game
Spoiler:
Everyone in this game is a member of the mafia, but alas, the mafia have been infiltrated by the FBI! The FBI faction starts with only 1 player, but he recruits each day (he turns scum into FBI snitch) to add to the voting power of the FBI faction. The mafia are trying to kill off the FBI undercover Agent and any of their fellow mobsters that have been converted (make them swim with the fishies, or cutting into little pieces and burying each piece separately, the standard mafia stye). The target for the night kill is decided by majority vote, just like a regular game lynching.

Each day, while everyone is still free to talk in the game thread (unlike nighttime in a normal game), the FBI Agent chooses the target of his attention (sends me a PM), and attempts to convert this mobster. If not roleblocked for some reason the FBI faction will grow. (The converted player will have his alignment changed, and now wants the FBI to win.) The snitch is now allowed to PM with the FBI Agent (and ONLY the FBI Agent, although the FBI Agent can pass along whatever he wants to his various snitches) during the day.

The Godfather is the most powerful role of the Mafia faction. He will be identified to everyone at the start of the game, and cannot be converted by the FBI. As the head of the mob, he can protect one player each night (PM me during the day) to protect from killing (his choice will be announced at the start of the night). He also has a 1-shot conversion attempt, where he can turn a snitch back into a loyal mafioso (and that player will retain ability to PM with FBI Agent). However, if he attempts to convert a loyal mafioso, this player will be so upset that he forms his own faction who only wants to see the Godfather taken down. If the Godfather attempts to convert the FBI Agent, nothing will happen. The Godfather will not be told what the results of this conversion attempt are, but the target will be told of the attempt and reminded of what this changes for them. The Godfather also has the ability to "pull aside" one player each 24 hour period and PM directly with that player (Godfather, you do not have to inform me of your target in advance, but please include me for any of these communications so I can be aware of what is going on, purely for my own enjoyment). Finally, the Godfather has the ability to "keep his eye on" one player (1 shot only), which protects that player from converting to FBI (PM me target during day).

The Capos (2 or 3 depending) are the mob bosses who only answer to the Godfather. Their identities are also given to everyone at the start of the game. They are responsible for directing the actions of the pool of Made Men, and have used their positions to accumulate a lot of wealth. This wealth gives each Capo a 1-shot investigation (by bribing government officials) to determine current faction of the target (FBI Agent will be same result as FBI snitch).

The Made Men make up the remainder of the players. Their job is to do whatever their bosses tell them to do, and so have no actions other than voting for nightly kill and talking in the game thread.

As the undercover Agent has been infiltrating the organization for almost his entire life, he could be either in a Capo position or a Made Man position (this will be randomly determined). The FBI Agent is NOT the Godfather.

Finally, due to the hierarchy of the mafia, any player can tell any player under him what to do, but this cannot affect actual gameplay (You can tell a player to not comment for 2 days, but player is still allowed to vote. You can tell a player to only tell the truth, but this will not actually create any obligation. Etc.)
Win conditions
Spoiler:
For Mafia faction: All FBI faction & independent (if there is one) = dead.

For FBI faction: Control 50% of the vote, unless Godfather still has his 1-shot convert attempt, in which case 50% of the vote does not immediately end game (in other words, when FBI cannot be stopped from winning *AND THE MOD DECIDES IT IS TIME* the game ends)

For independent (if there is one): Godfather = dead.

Since the FBI agent is the only one who can recruit, and the FBI agent is only member of his team who can PM (1 snitch at a time), the game will be interesting when/if the FBI agent is killed, as the remaining FBI snitches will not be able to PM each other and will not be able to coordinate well, but can still win if they gain control of the vote.
Explicit descriptions of roles
Spoiler:
Godfather > Capo > Made Man

The Godfather has many abilities and available actions:
1. He cannot be converted to FBI. This is a passive trait, inherent to the role.
2. Each 24 hour period of gametime (day one plus night one, for instance), he can select one player in the game to send and receive Private Messages. This is accomplished by sending a PM to the chosen player and to me simultaneously. They can continue to PM until the next dawn (leaving me in the conversation thread for my amusement).
3. Each day he can select one player to protect from nightkill voting. This is accomplished by sending a PM to me. His choice will be announced at the start of the night (if he wants to announce it, I will allow it, since he is a man of honor; but if he does not make his choice known at the beginning of night, I will inform everyone of his choice).
4. One time only, during the day, he can select one player to protect from converting to FBI. This is accomplished by sending a PM to me.
5. One time only, during the day or night, he can select one player to convert. This is accomplished by sending a PM to me. Results of this conversion attempt are not disclosed to anyone, except the target as appropriate, who is told of the attempt via PM and reminded of this:
If target is FBI Snitch, target becomes mafia again, but retains ability to PM with FBI Agent.
If target is FBI Agent, nothing happens.
If target is loyal mafia, target becomes the Independent Scum, with Godfather's death as his goal.
6. Just like everyone else, he gets to talk in game thread at any time, and casts votes at night for who to kill.
7. Just for flavor, he is allowed to order every other player around. These orders do not really mean anything (unless backed up by me in either PM or game thread).

Each Capo has limited available actions:
1. Gets 1-shot investigation (day). This is accomplished by sending a PM to me. Result will be a simple "Mafia" or "FBI" returned by PM.
2. Just like everyone else, he gets to talk in game thread at any time, and casts votes at night for who to kill.
3. Just for flavor, he is allowed to order the Made Men around. These orders do not really mean anything (unless backed up by me in either PM or game thread).

Each Made Man is vanilla:
1. Just like everyone else, he gets to talk in game thread at any time, and casts votes at night for who to kill.

The FBI Agent has some available actions:
1. Each day he selects one player to convert to FBI. This is accomplished by sending a PM to me. Unless roleblocked by the Godfather's 1-shot action, the target joins the FBI faction with new assigned role of FBI Snitch. I will PM the target to inform of role change. A couple of just-in-case results:
If target is already FBI, nothing happens.
If target is independent , target becomes part of FBI faction, but still wants to kill Godfather as primary goal.
If target is Capo, he becomes FBI Snitch, of course, and retains 1-shot investigation if not already used.
2. During the day period, he can send PMs to any of his Snitches on a 1-on-1 basis (He just sends a PM to the Snitch and me both). He CANNOT PM his Snitches during the night period.
3. Just like everyone else, he gets to talk in game thread at any time, and casts votes at night for who to kill.
4. He may be assigned either Capo or Made Man as visible role. If assigned Capo, the 1-shot investigation does not apply, but the ordering around just-for-flavor aspect remains.

The FBI Snitch cannot do much:
1. During the day period, he can send PMs to the FBI Agent on a 1-on-1 basis (He just sends a PM to the Agent and me both). He CANNOT PM the Agent during the night period. He CANNOT PM any other Snitches at any time.
2. As stated above, if visible role is Capo, he retains his 1-shot investigation if it is not already used.
3. Just like everyone else, he gets to talk in game thread at any time, and casts votes at night for who to kill.

The Independent Scum cannot do much:
1. Just like everyone else, he gets to talk in game thread at any time, and casts votes at night for who to kill.

The Independent Scum Converted to FBI still cannot do much:
1. Has exact same options as FBI Snitch described above.


Player list
Spoiler:
1. Mavketl . . . . . . . . . . . . . Godfather
2. Elvish Pillager . . . . . . . . . Capo FBI Snitch, killed N5
3. michaelandjimi . . . . . . . . Capo Loyal Mafia, killed N4
4. Lataro . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Capo
5. weiyaoli . . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man
6. b.i.o . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man
7. Chandani . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man Loyal Mafia, killed N2
8. Mieulium . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man
9. cycoden . . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man
10. ForAllOfThis . . . . . . . . . Made Man FBI Snitch, killed N8
11. BigNose . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man Loyal Mafia, killed N1
12. mpolo . . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man FBI Snitch, killed N9
13. Dr Ug . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man FBI Agent, killed N6
14. Not A Raptor . . . . . . . . . Made Man Loyal Mafia, killed N3
15. Brooklynxman . . . . . . . . . Made Man
16. Weeks . . . . . . . . . . . . . Made Man FBI Snitch, killed N10


Note: Day periods will be as brief as possible, lasting only long enough for me to process the actions that were already sent in. This is necessary to ensure that the game runs in the allotted time. This means that FBI Agent can PM his snitches during the night phases, but there will still be a delay after a successful recruitment before they can chat. (ie. a D1 recruit cannot chat with FBI Agent until D2/N2.)
Last edited by MasterOfAll on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:01 pm UTC, edited 14 times in total.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - It shall be 'Reverse'

Postby MasterOfAll » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:12 pm UTC

Oh, look, this post got edited to include the standard set of rules . . .
Spoiler:
1. Do not talk about the game outside this thread.
2. DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE GAME OUTSIDE THIS THREAD. (Well, there is that whole "discussion thread" thing...)That, and IRC. You can talk, just no giving secret information to certain people or whatnot. The real game happens here.
3. N/A
4. Don't lurk through the whole game; if you need to drop out, TELL ME. Really bad lurkers REALLY PISS ME OFF. We have replacement players just in case real life gets in the way of your mafia playing.
5. N/A
6. N/A
7. If you die, don't say anything for the rest of the game except a simple, "Bah, you got me," which reveals no information.
8. You may not post verbatim or quote from your role PM. Paraphrasing is fine.
9. You may not edit your posts.
Last edited by MasterOfAll on Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:21 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - It shall be 'Reverse'

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:37 pm UTC

MoA, is the FBI Agent told when one of their snitches is converted? If so, what's the point of making a rule about what happens if the FBI Agent tries to recruit an FBI member? If not, how does the FBI Agent know when they're allowed to PM with someone they've recruited?
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - It shall be 'Reverse'

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:43 pm UTC

Also: Are we supposed to play to win personally, or to make our current faction win? i.e. would you consider it un-sporting for a player to try to win by getting converted and then winning with the opposing faction?
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - It shall be 'Reverse'

Postby MasterOfAll » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:38 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:MoA, is the FBI Agent told when one of their snitches is converted?
Hmm, this was almost 2 years ago that I ran this game, so I no longer remember exactly what I intended if the Godfather converts a snitch back into a loyal mafioso. But, I did say this about the Godfather's convert ability (underline added now for emphasis) . . .
Godfather role description wrote:Results of this conversion attempt are not disclosed to anyone, except the target as appropriate, who is told of the attempt via PM and reminded of this:
If target is FBI Snitch, target becomes mafia again.
If target is FBI Agent, nothing happens.
If target is loyal mafia, target becomes the Independent Scum, with Godfather's death as his goal
I will add now that the FBI Agent and a converted-back-from-snitch player will still be able to PM each other (and I will probably update stuff in 1st post when I get a chance).

So, if the FBI Agent suspects that one of his snitches has been converted back, he might attempt recruiting the same player a second time. If that player *had* been converted back to mafia, that player would then have win condition changed to FBI team *yet* again (unless blocked by Godfather's 1-shot protection, of course). If that player had not been converted back to mafia, nothing really happens, other than FBI Agent wasting his convert ability.


Elvish Pillager wrote:Also: Are we supposed to play to win personally, or to make our current faction win? i.e. would you consider it un-sporting for a player to try to win by getting converted and then winning with the opposing faction?
I would much prefer it if everyone tries to make their current faction win, and actually planned to make this clear to players who get converted (and therefore might feel more loyalty to previous team). I was specifically thinking that the 1st player to be converted to FBI might try to publicly claim, ask Godfather to re-convert, and then vote for FBI Agent; I would consider this to be game-breaking, and so was going to make it clear to converted players that this sort of behavior would result in a modkill and public humiliation.

So, your question is a bit more general, but I will leave it as . . . I would prefer if everyone tries to win with their current faction.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - It shall be 'Reverse'

Postby BigNose » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:51 am UTC

Confirming - aka egosearch
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - Roles going out

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:36 pm UTC

Roles going out now.

PMs have been sent out to all players. More importantly, player/role list is now included in 1st post. (Yes, I sent out PMs in batches, but you should not make any assumptions based on that.)
Last edited by MasterOfAll on Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - Roles going out

Postby Mavketl » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:48 pm UTC

Oh boy, this was the one role I was hoping not to get... I feel all overwhelmed with possibilities and stuff.

Upside: I get to order Lataro around.

*eagerly awaits D1/N1*
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - Roles going out

Postby Lataro » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:59 pm UTC

Vote: Mavketl

'cuz
DS9, after being told the story and moral of the boy who cried wolf by Julian.

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Julian: "Of course. What else could it be?"
Garak: "Never tell the same lie twice."

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:02 pm UTC

It is now Day 1.

Nothing much happens during the day periods (voting for player to kill happens during nights), but you are free to discuss whatever you'd like.

This game will not be able to move to Night 1 until every player has posted at least 1 time AND the FBI Agent has sent me a target. (It would also be nice to hear from the Godfather each day on whether actions are being used or saved for later.)

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Weeks » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:03 pm UTC

Confurm.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby b.i.o » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:22 pm UTC

!gnimrifnoC

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Mavketl » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:25 pm UTC

*breaks out Godfather voice*

Lataro, you incompetent fool, put that vote down. Our votes are not for use during the day... what are you, an FBI agent?
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Roxanna W Williams » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:27 pm UTC

I, for one, am happy that Makvetl got the role she didn't want, because she's going to be much better at it than most of us.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby mpolo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:28 pm UTC

Er... Sorry. I use echo-chamber usually, but the link my PM knocked me over to xkcd, where I'm still logged in from Asylum Mafia, apparently.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Pre-game - Roles going out

Postby BigNose » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:34 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:Vote: Mavketl

'cuz

DITTO
Adacore wrote:In all honesty, BigNose has been pinging me slightly with almost every post since the start of the game. But he always does - I was utterly convinced he was anti-town for most of Wizardry2 and he was the High Wizard. I just can't read him.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Mavketl » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:37 pm UTC

Any suggestions for good use of my communication ability for D1/N1? I don't really know of anything that could be said in there that we can't discuss in public. There are no secret power roles except for the FBI and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't tell me they were FBI.

If any Capo uses their investigation ability, they should probably just claim it publically (and I don't except them to use their one-shot ability on D1 anyway).

I won't protect anyone from getting lynchkilled during N1, since I have no reason to trust anyone more than everyone else.


@joke votes: Well, at least I'm actually scum this game. :P
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby ForAllOfThis » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:25 pm UTC

Confirming.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:04 pm UTC

Confirming.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby MasterOfAll » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:12 pm UTC

"Confirming" works, but y'all should also feel free to discuss strategy and such.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Lataro » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:22 pm UTC

I think we should lynch Mav, just in case this is a super secret bastard game and she is the FBI agent. :P
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby michaelandjimi » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:44 pm UTC

Confirming, but I really need to find something breakfasty to eat and then take pictures of roses. I will be back in probably around 12 hours.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:11 pm UTC

Alright...

The absolute most important thing to do is to catch the FBI Agent. If we lynch an FBI Snitch every night, we lose. And there are three ways to find the Agent:
1) Getting lucky/clever and lynching them. Heh.
2) Finding them via a Capo investigation. This is the strategy I was thinking of first, but it has a big flaw: The investigation only tells town from FBI. And lynching an FBI Snitch is a mislynch. So if we were to take this strategy, all three Capos should use their investigations N1, but that - at most - cops three out of our fifteen (non-Godfather) players. Probably not a good start.
3) Reconverting an FBI Snitch. This is the strategy we should probably employ. The trouble is that we only get one shot, and we need to make sure it's on FBI. (Hitting the FBI Agent is fine, because the Agent will have to claim who the real Agent is like anybody else, and after we lynch that person and find they weren't the Agent, we can lynch the real Agent.)

The trouble is that it will be very hard to know if a Capo has been recruited, and if we claim and discuss who the Capos should investigate, the Agent can use that discussion to help decide whether to recruit the Capo in question or not. And we also can't trust an individual Capo's discretion about who to investigate. So I propose the following plan:

Each Capo should investigate ONLY at the orders of the Godfather. The Godfather can privately tell a Capo who to investigate - or, potentially, use their private communication to set up a code with each Capo so that they can order the investigation during the night (so that they can, if they want to, order all three Capos at the same time rather than having to wait 48 hours to give them all instructions.) And if the Godfather orders multiple Capos to investigate during the same day, the Godfather should also dictate what order for them to claim their investigations. This should maximize our chances of getting investigations that actually confirm someone as scum.

And, yes, the fact that Mavketl is our godfather is part of why I'm so positive about this plan. :P
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Not A Raptor » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:09 pm UTC

Confirming.

As it is possible that one of the capos is the FBI agent, we should have them use their powers to confirm each other first.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:10 pm UTC

NAR, each Capo's ability is one-shot.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:23 pm UTC

Confirming
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby weiyaoli » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:30 pm UTC

Confirming.
And you thought I was crazy...

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Mavketl » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:18 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:NAR, each Capo's ability is one-shot.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and about how it's the only thing making Capos 'better' recruit targets than everyone else.

And every time a capo turns to FBI, scum loses an investigation. What would be the merits of having all capos using their investigations during D1? That way we have a larger chance of a result than if we lose one or two investigations and use the remainder later in the game.

(Note: this is not me 'ordering' three investigations right now. I'd like some input on whether that would be a good idea, though.)
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Not A Raptor » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:20 pm UTC

Elvish Pillager wrote:NAR, each Capo's ability is one-shot.

Hm. So it is. Reading comprehension sure is handy. Still... if they use their powers on day one, we know who the recruiting agent is or isn't, and that person is the one we must get rid of. The Agent's death is priority#1. We can find any scattered recruits later, especially as there aren't any today.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby BigNose » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:29 pm UTC

Maybe what we should do is to get each Made Man to fall on their sword and get himself NK'd.
This will slowly whittle away the number of low-lifes, but leave the Capo's.
Then, after 3 nights, we should be at:
Godfather
3 x Capo's
5 Made-men
FBI Agent
3 x Snitch
or, assuming that the Agent has converted a Capo, then
Godfather
2 x Capo's
6 Made-men
FBI Agent
3 x Snitch (Incl 1 Capo)

We now get each Capo to 'cop' each other Capo, circular-wise.
The odds are, that 1 of the Capo's would have been converted, so therefore we now have a 'convertible' target for the GF.

If we do this too soon, there is less chance of a Capo being turned.
If we do it any later, we could end up with 2 x Capo's turned and also the vote swaying too far from Mafia.

Comments?

DAMN. Made all of this, only to see that the Capo's are known and we are screwed.
Another option is for the GF to get 1 x Capo each night to 'cop' another Capo.
So that even if all 3 are turned, we should be able to get potential 'telling' data from the results.

The odds of the Agent and the GF getting the same target to cop/turn/copping is slim.
Make sure that it is the GF that publicly identifies the targets' 'copped' result and doesn't have to do it until D4.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:51 pm UTC

Mavketl wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:NAR, each Capo's ability is one-shot.
I've been thinking about this for a while, and about how it's the only thing making Capos 'better' recruit targets than everyone else.

And every time a capo turns to FBI, scum loses an investigation. What would be the merits of having all capos using their investigations during D1? That way we have a larger chance of a result than if we lose one or two investigations and use the remainder later in the game.

(Note: this is not me 'ordering' three investigations right now. I'd like some input on whether that would be a good idea, though.)

The thing is... we don't lose all the usefulness of an investigation, because even recruited Capos will have to claim results. And if they claim results dishonestly, they run the risk of becoming confirmed scum, which is a huuuuge benefit to us because it means you can reconvert them and discover the identity of the Agent.

Furthermore, since the idea is to get a confirmed scum, we actually benefit somewhat from waiting until there are more FBI Snitches to catch.

BigNose's latest idea is actually a really good one. If the Capos don't even reveal their results publicly - only claim them in private to the Godfather - then a scum Capo can't know whether their results are inconsistent with the other Capo results - a single investigation by a scum Capo can't 100% confirm scum if they know what they're doing, but if you sometimes ask a Capo to investigate another Capo, or to investigate a target another Capo already investigated, then you can catch tricks. And you, of course, can't die or be recruited, so the information is safe with you, and you can make your plans stronger with your one-shot protection and stuff.

It could also beneficial to have the Capos investigate one at a time so that we can (if we/you decide it's the right choice at the time) immediately lynch any Capo who gets a 'guilty' result. Because if a Capo who got a guilty result flips as mafia-aligned, we have confirmed FBI (and if not, well, at least we lynched FBI.)
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

Lataro wrote:I think we should lynch Mav, just in case this is a super secret bastard game and she is the FBI agent. :P


Vote: Lataro


The vote will be removed when the avatar of death is removed. I don't find clowns creepy and that has me freaked out enough that I can't look at it. Its like its alive in my computer monitor waiting to get me. I think its eyes just moved.

Obv. get the agent strategy is obvious. Unless we are at lylo, and I think at lylo we would need to lynch the fbi agent if he is still alive or we are screwed anyway.

Capo confirm strategy is good for following previously stated reasons:
1. confirms no capos are the agent
2. leaves them the same as made men, and no longer prime targets.
3. We no longer need to worry about lynching them because they are "confirmed town". Until the agent is dead, they aren't legitimate lynch targets, decreasing the number of targets by a not-insignificant amount.

Ninja'd I disagree. Read: above.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:03 pm UTC

I was with you until your final paragraph - if a capo returns "guilty", surely we lynch the target of their invention, rather than the capo - then if it was wrong we lynch the capo?

Ninja'd - BXM what do you mean by the "capo confirm strategy"?
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Dr Ug » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:06 pm UTC

EBWOP: also:
MasterOfAll wrote:Nothing much happens during the day periods (voting for player to kill happens during nights)
Where did my old signature go? :(

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:38 pm UTC

Dr Ug wrote:I was with you until your final paragraph - if a capo returns "guilty", surely we lynch the target of their invention, rather than the capo - then if it was wrong we lynch the capo?

Ninja'd - BXM what do you mean by the "capo confirm strategy"?

the strategy of having themm all investigate each other today.
We figure out what all this means, then do something large and violent

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Elvish Pillager » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:55 pm UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:Capo confirm strategy is good for following previously stated reasons:
1. confirms no capos are the agent
2. leaves them the same as made men, and no longer prime targets.
3. We no longer need to worry about lynching them because they are "confirmed town". Until the agent is dead, they aren't legitimate lynch targets, decreasing the number of targets by a not-insignificant amount.

Ninja'd I disagree. Read: above.

3x confirmed non-Agent is waaaay less good than 1x confirmed Agent.

Dr Ug wrote:I was with you until your final paragraph - if a capo returns "guilty", surely we lynch the target of their invention, rather than the capo - then if it was wrong we lynch the capo?

No! If a Capo gives us a wrong result, the Capo was probably an FBI Snitch, so we shouldn't lynch them. And if the Capo was being honest, we shouldn't lynch their target. Remember - while the Agent is alive, a Snitch lynch is a mislynch. What we need to do is get confirmed FBI for Mav to reconvert, and to do that, we lynch the Capo to confirm the Capo's alignment.
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Mavketl » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:20 am UTC

Elvish Pillager and some more of my own thoughts have convinced me that using the investigations on D1 is likely not very useful. If we use them later in the game, there will be more snitches, so we increase the odds of finding someone to convert and/or catching a Capo in a lie.

Elvish Pillager wrote:If a Capo gives us a wrong result, the Capo was probably an FBI Snitch, so we shouldn't lynch them. And if the Capo was being honest, we shouldn't lynch their target. Remember - while the Agent is alive, a Snitch lynch is a mislynch. What we need to do is get confirmed FBI for Mav to reconvert, and to do that, we lynch the Capo to confirm the Capo's alignment.
The situation that I'm most weary of is if we find FBI, I try to convert them and they were the agent. If I'm interpreting the rules right, I wouldn't know my conversion has failed. They would point me towards a false agent (scum). This takes 1 day for the investigation, 1 night for the check-the-capo lynch, 1 day for the conversion, then a night for the falselynch, and only then can we lynch the real agent. If this 'sequence' starts during D3, for example, I would only know who the agent was on D5 (lynch on N5). Depending on how many snitches we have lynched by then, that is really really close (especially since we're not done when we get the agent, we also have to lynch all five snitches). If we're really late in the game, we might not be able to afford to miss a chance to lynch any FBI, snitch or agent. If we're really early in the game, there's a 1/2 or 1/3 chance that the FBI we find is the agent.

Oh well, let's hope I have good situational judgement. OH NOES the responsibility!
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Lataro » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:49 am UTC

I think that any public organization of investigations, or plans made and followed, will help the agent greatly. I think Capo's should just sit on their investigation unless they are asked to use it, and that it shouldn't be done in accordance with any system discussed in thread.

As for BXM... look deep into my eyes, you are getting scared, you are a little boy again, cowering in your bed... it's okay little boy, I have candy...

It'll only hurt for eternity....

MWAHAHAHAHA!
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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby Chandani » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:59 am UTC

Confirming.

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Re: [T] MoA Replay - Day 1 - Please confirm in thread

Postby michaelandjimi » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:55 am UTC

I agree that the Capos should investigate in private and PM Mav their results when they can. It makes proper sense, since Mav is confirmed Mafia. What I'm concerned about is that the Capos seem like prime FBI-recruitment material, given that we are the only powered players that are recruitable. I almost considered just having us investigate straight up and then lynch each of us consecutively, but that has obvious problems, especially given the FBI agent would know of it and avoid recruiting any of us.

The problem with cults, and the FBI agency patently is one, is that you can't properly analyse past behaviour. They may only have been recruited the night before, and that makes me uneasy in the extreme.

I have a fair few ideas on what the FBI will want to do, strategy-wise, but revealing it would turn this into a ridiculous amount of WIFOM. However, anticipating their behaviour in recruitment is key in defeating them. Rarrarrgh.

MoA: Has the FBI already had a recruit attempt or do we only have to find the original FBI Agent today?
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