Unlikely Superheroes (Endgame)

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LaserGuy
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby LaserGuy » Sun May 19, 2019 8:16 pm UTC

Current votals:

BoomFrog (2): wam, freezeblade
dimochka (1): BoomFrog
SuicideJunkie (1): bessie

Not voting: dimochka, jimbobmacdoodle moody7277, Sabrar, somitomi, SuicideJunkie

Deadline is in 1 day, 20 hours

Laserguy: Should the players list in the OP be updated with Somitomi?


Player's list has been updated.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby bessie » Sun May 19, 2019 9:04 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:That's the rub, isn't it? I'm leaning towards the second one, but that's mostly setup speculation, dimochka didn't leave much of an impression on me. Will reread later.
Noted. Anxiously awaiting your conclusions.

somitomi wrote:That's pretty detailed for the info we have and your apparent certainty about the 8-3 setup makes me uneasy.
There’s a reason I push everyone to make ordered lists with no groupings, and no neutrals. It forces you to take a stand.

moody7277 wrote:I think bessie being obsessed with my opinion of PW/somi is cute.

*whisper whisper*

No, Cynical View, I am not putting that down.
Well now that Madge is on break, I get to be the cute one for a few months. Oh, and I totally understand why you wouldn’t want to post Cynical View. Cynicism and sarcasm are so out of character for you. It would be quite disorienting were your meta to change so drastically.

moody7277 wrote:
I needed somewhere to drop a vote, and someone RVS a known (to me) townie is as good as anywhere.

Wait, what? I'm thinking he just means he's reading/meta jimbob as townie, but Cynical View thinks this is a scum slip.
Hmmm, I read this as SuicideJunkie saying that jimbob RVS’d a townie (SuicideJunkie). I thought the suspicious part was that SuicideJunkie needed to vote.

Why is everyone discounting early votes for (theoretical) scum mates as an attempt at a bus, and not just as an attempt to make not-connections, knowing they can probably move the vote later?

moody7277 wrote: The D2 stuff where he claims no result about dimochka is still somewhat confusing because I don't know whether he was talking about tracking dim or watching him;
It doesn’t matter. SuicideJunkie claimed No Result. Watching or tracking should have given a result unless SuicideJunkie was roleblocked or dimochka commuted.

wam wrote:Somi seems to be slowly getting into the game.
Yeah at this rate he may even have a solid opinion on something by D4.

wam wrote:Bessie is locked into her role spec but this is nai for Bessie.
TBH, I’m not sure it is.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Sun May 19, 2019 9:44 pm UTC

Catching up now as much as I can. Sorry for the wall.

Based on wam's most recent comment:
@freezeblade - are your results Town/Not Town, or Town/Not Town/Scum? In other words, would you be able to distinguish between a) two different scum factions, and b) an indie/scum? I'm assuming the former, but thought it worth confirming.

Is there anybody who thinks SuicideJunkie shouldn't claim at least his disadvantage? I'm kind of inclined to ask him to do so, and would like to see if it lines up with my guess.

Sabrar wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:Less murder more arrests is good for town, and doubly good for me.
This wording specifically implies that you're not town.
Interesting observation. Not sure how much stock to put in it, based on SJ's relative newbieness, but it implies that he considers himself apart from the rest of town, right? I note that SuicideJunkie never commented on it.
@SuicideJunkie - why is less murder/more arrests better for you than for town (implied by the "doubly good" bit)?
somitomi wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:Well, I tried to snoop on what Dimochka was up to, but got No Result.

:? I don't recall you claiming any such power and I don't see the point in sharing a "no result". Why did you do that?
I don't think I've seen a response to this question.
Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:and also semi-confirm freezeblade)
freezeblade's info is already confirmed. BoomFrog admitted to both pieces of information he provided and wam also confirmed the church of moo. Unless freezeblade is in cahoot with the both of them and this is a super complicated ploy (note: this is never the case here) then freezeblade's ability looks real. The only other possibility (although very unlikely) is that freezeblade is also member of moo with wam and they gambited hoping the non-town read on BoomFrog was correct. Or I guess freezeblade could be BoomFrog's buddy and decided to sacrifice him after he was 'found' by the roleblock and no NK. Again, unlikely.
Yes, sorry, not quite sure what I was getting at here. I agree that it is unlikely that freezeblade is in cahoots with either wam or BoomFrog, for basically those reasons.
Sabrar wrote:Timeline of votes on Vicarin, SuicideJunkie, BoomFrog from D1:
Thanks. Key points to me are that bessie is a good shout for a Vicarin buddy, based on late vote movements, and you are unlikely. BoomFrog is neutral, due to it being close to deadline, and also because "is BoomFrog". Also, I don't think SuicideJunkie or wam are likely buddies, (definitely not wam for other reasons too). Anybody else really isn't indicative to me at this point.
dimochka wrote:I'm still thinking my original 7-2-1-1 is not unreasonable.
Can you go into more detail on this? Are you thinking an SK is the 1? What do you think about BoomFrog's comment that this would be poor game design?
dimochka wrote:Without getting into details, I have no idea whatsoever why SJ didn't get a result. I don't think this automatically implies that he's lying (and actually put the chances of him lying here at very low) but that tells me that some other powers were likely at play. Will reanalyze my list to see who might have had it out for me (or the complete opposite).
Why do you think the chances are very low (also asked by somitomi)? What makes you think somebody had it out for you?

I'm not sure what to make of moody's inattentiveness regarding the claims. Is this normal for moody as either alignment?

bessie wrote:Why did you feel the need to add that second sentence? Why not just let SuicideJunkie ask LaserGuy the question and report his answer? You don’t need to coach someone to tell the truth.
I was explaining where my thought process was coming from so that SuicideJunkie would know why he had to ask. I felt like he was trying to be helpful (though I'm not so sure currently), and had a town opinion on him. Also, I can be quite bad at remembering why I asked someone a question, so it was mostly to remind myself of why I asked (namely it was a clarification question, not an attempt to entrap someone).
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:I am skeptical of SuicideJunkie’s claim. If SuicideJunkie was roleblocked and wam is telling the truth, we have two roleblockers.
Why are you assuming that both roleblockers are Town aligned? Or do you believe that because town has a roleblocker, scum can't?
Both roleblockers?? Why are you assuming there are two roleblockers, or that I also think there are two roleblockers? I think that if your read my D2 content carefully (and there’s not a lot of it so far so it’s not like you’re buried in an avalanche of posts from me) you will find that I am questioning of the odds of two roleblockers.
I don't have enough time to go back and re-read people's content (whether it was low or not) on my bus rides into work, just enough time to post current thoughts on the most recent posts. I don't remember exactly my thought process, but IIRC, I was asking because I felt like your scepticism for two roleblockers came from the point of view that both were town. Hmmm... of course if you were scum, you might know that to be the only option...

bessie wrote:Why was your post just oozing with reasons we should find SuicideJunkie townie?
Because I believed his play to be townie, if admittedly confusing, up to that point. See my read of him from D1. I occasionally go through shifting opinions on him though, as I am now. Why do you seem so convinced that he isn't townie?
bessie wrote:And why even analyze BoomFrog? Wasn’t he already confirmed scum from your point of view?
Scum is not the same as non-town. I'm quite surprised you've made this mistake, based on your determination to distinguish scum from mafia in other games.
Sabrar wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:Well, I tried to snoop on what Dimochka was up to, but got No Result.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@SJ - Please confirm with the mod whether a failure to get a result is distinguishable from being informed that there were no visitors. Sometimes there aren't.

I think SJ implied Tracker/Follower of some sort. Why would you assume Watcher?
Faulty memory or usual tracker/watcher confusion, that's all. Can't explain it beyond that. The principle is still valid though (i.e. No Result might mean no visits/no action etc).
bessie wrote:Sabrar, the reason jimbob thinks SuicideJunkie is a watcher, not a tracker, is his opening post:
Why would you assume that, and why did you answer a question directed at me?
bessie wrote:I’m still thinking about as to whether or not Church of Moo is a cult or separate faction. wam has claimed town, and BoomFrog as claimed his alignment didn’t change (but both would have made these claims regardless). Interesting though that wam claims he will cop as just Moo, but BoomFrog copped as non-town and Moo.
Why would wam try to recruit BoomFrog then?

@SuicideJunkie - how about some reads?

bessie wrote:Backup guess at the setup:

Apps of Destruction Mafia: Vicarin, SuicideJunkie
What do you think about SuicideJunkie's vote on Vicarin?
somitomi wrote:That's pretty detailed for the info we have and your apparent certainty about the 8-3 setup makes me uneasy. Additionally it doesn't seem like a very well balanced setup, although I know little about balancing.
I agree with this. bessie has apparently not decided to tunnel a player this game, but instead is tunnelling a rather weird setup.

Initial impression from somitomi is positive, but I need to do a full read of him, and he needs a few solid reads. I'll do the re-read tomorrow, along with anybody else I have time for.
wam wrote:Yes role PM states I come up at church of moo.
Have you confirmed that this means you won't show up as town at all?
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby bessie » Sun May 19, 2019 11:26 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Is there anybody who thinks SuicideJunkie shouldn't claim at least his disadvantage? I'm kind of inclined to ask him to do so, and would like to see if it lines up with my guess.
Since SuicideJunkie did ask LaserGuy for clarification on his night result (see here) and most certainly has an answer by now, I think he should confirm that his result was “No Result”, as opposed to “your target did not visit anyone” or “your target was not visited by anyone”. He already claimed he targeted dimochka, and he willingly volunteered this information without prodding. There is a big difference between No Result, which could mean SuicideJunkie was roleblocked, and say, “your target did not visit anyone” which would imply dimochka did not attempt the NK (barring powers of course).

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Key points to me are that bessie is a good shout for a Vicarin buddy, based on late vote movements, and you are unlikely.
Nice attempt to use my vote to tie me to Vicarin, but Sabrar already tried. See my response to Sabrar here.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Hmmm... of course if you were scum, you might know that to be the only option...

Spoiler:
cynical bessie.jpg
cynical bessie.jpg (70.91 KiB) Viewed 1137 times

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:Why was your post just oozing with reasons we should find SuicideJunkie townie?
Because I believed his play to be townie, if admittedly confusing, up to that point. See my read of him from D1. I occasionally go through shifting opinions on him though, as I am now. Why do you seem so convinced that he isn't townie?
His unwillingness to clarify information that he willingly volunteered.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Scum is not the same as non-town. I'm quite surprised you've made this mistake, based on your determination to distinguish scum from mafia in other games.
I sometimes use scum for generic non-town, and mafia and independent for specifics. But you’re correct, I generally don’t use scum, too much confusion because many do use it to refer specifically to mafia. I’ve explained this before but I can’t point to it off the top of my head. Sabrar can probably confirm. I used it here because interestingly, the Apps did not flip as “mafia”.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:Sabrar, the reason jimbob thinks SuicideJunkie is a watcher, not a tracker, is his opening post:
Why would you assume that, and why did you answer a question directed at me?
SuicideJunkie oddly flipped it back to me in this post. I thought you got it from the same post BoomFrog was claiming to find the vigilante breadcrumb. I knew you saw it. You voted for SuicideJunkie based on that post and spent most of D1 refusing to confirm or deny as to whether or not it was RVS or serious. See here, here, and here, you finally explained here. Note that in that last link, you say this:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I have a theory about SuicideJunkie's role, at least the negative aspects he's talking about.
So you did have a guess to his role on D1, long before he made his “snooped on what dimochka was up to” tracker comment.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why would wam try to recruit BoomFrog then?
See revised and more detailed setup spec here:
bessie’s setup spec wrote:In both setups, the Church of Moo is the McGuffin.


jimbobmacdoodle wrote:What do you think about SuicideJunkie's vote on Vicarin?
SuicideJunkie’s vote, page 3.
SuicideJunkie wrote:Vote Vicarin

for now, but I'm all alone in it so that will probably have to change to a compromise.

Votals immediately before SuicideJunkie’s vote switch:

Peaceful Whale (1): moody
SuicideJunkie (2): jimbobmacdoodle, Vicarin
jimbobmacdoodle (1): SuicideJunkie
BoomFrog (1): Peaceful Whale
dimochka (1): BoomFrog

Not voting: bessie, dimochka, freezeblade, Sabrar, wam

Time remaining, about 3 days, 15 hours.

You want to know what I think, just reference the second post on this page:
bessie wrote:Why is everyone discounting early votes for (theoretical) scum mates as an attempt at a bus, and not just as an attempt to make not-connections, knowing they can probably move the vote later?
See also SuicideJunkie's comment when he voted that he would probably be moving his vote later.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I agree with this. bessie has apparently not decided to tunnel a player this game, but instead is tunnelling a rather weird setup.
Didn’t you already say this? Oh, my mistake. It wasn’t you.

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4453798#p4453798
Vicarin wrote:bessie: been prodding a bunch of people to discuss points the entire game. Her attachment to that bizarrely specific setup spec is... weird, but ok.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby dimochka » Mon May 20, 2019 4:46 am UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:
bessie wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:In any case, the scum faction(s) are down one now, and if all faction kills are one-shot, that makes me much happier for myself
I think it’s dangerously optimistic to assume all factional kills are one shot.

At least one of them was one-shot, and the other was either blocked or withheld. Less murder more arrests is good for town, and doubly good for me.

I don't see how you assume that there is another kill power. Why isn't scum plus cult possible, with scum being an issue but also a bit more of a red herring to mask cult?

Re: Boomfrog - Too many holes in his case for being a perfectly townish indie (i.e. not admitting to the recruitment early in d2, and don't see why he would be a recruit target given how d1 went, but who knows). Wam's explanation makes sense to me. I doubt wam's towniness, but given circumstances (i.e. potential mafia converted to cult), I think BF is the best option. And to respond to his note on me, it was a very real vote. I still did thing and still do think that he's scum. I don't see any logical reason why he would call it that.

somitomi wrote:
dimochka wrote:Without getting into details, I have no idea whatsoever why SJ didn't get a result. I don't think this automatically implies that he's lying (and actually put the chances of him lying here at very low) but that tells me that some other powers were likely at play. Will reanalyze my list to see who might have had it out for me (or the complete opposite).

Why do you think this information means a lower chance of SJ lying?

It was volunteered so randomly that I just don't think he's lying. That doesn't mean I don't think that he's scum. Just that this piece of information isn't false.

So going back to my list, here's what i would change
- wam: i'm downgrading to to neutral at best. i'm thinking that the setup could be 2 mafia, 1 cult, 1 sk. I don't think it's poor game design, but rather a different way to go about things. Maybe vicarin's partner has some kind of more useful power?
- boomfrog: dead last. I think he might be the SK. Or if I'm wrong about cult and setup is 7-2-2, he's in the other mafia. I think the gambit of lynching your teammate d1 is too big.
- SJ: remains scummy. I do believe his claim; i can't see a logical scenario where he would lie about it upfront without any good reason.
- Freezeblade: townie. believe him at this point.
- Moody: along with Bessie and Jimbob at the top
- Somitomi: I had PW at town-ish, and somitomi is there too. would like to see a T-S list

I'd appreciate any other direct questions. I'll respond to all in a timely manner (apart from when I'm sleeping). I will still also post unrelated to them.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 20, 2019 5:45 am UTC

dimochka wrote:And to respond to his note on me, it was a very real vote. I still did thing and still do think that he's scum. I don't see any logical reason why he would call it that.
It's the timing of the vote that matters. No one else was going to vote for me, and you didn't change your vote before deadline. Even though you said that you were "underline" voting for SJ, you didn't actually vote for him when it could have made a difference in a close lynch. That screams that you didn't actually care about the result of the lynch and I'm frustrated that no one else sees it.

Side note: Your "finding me scummy" was pure OMGUS after I found you scummy.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 6:02 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:It's the timing of the vote that matters. No one else was going to vote for me, and you didn't change your vote before deadline. Even though you said that you were "underline" voting for SJ, you didn't actually vote for him when it could have made a difference in a close lynch. That screams that you didn't actually care about the result of the lynch and I'm frustrated that no one else sees it.

LaserGuy wrote:D1 final votals:

Peaceful Whale (1): moody
SuicideJunkie (2): Vicarin, bessie
Vicarin (5): SuicideJunkie, wam, jimbobmacdoodle, Sabrar, BoomFrog ---> LYNCH
BoomFrog (1): dimochka

Not voting: freezeblade, Peaceful Whale


Out of all this I think you can only fairly accuse moody of not being interested in the lynch. freezeblade was sick, PW disappeared and dimochka said that he would be around to break the tie if needed (plus he was vocal on you being his scummiest read all through D1 (which might have been OMGUS but that's another topic)). moody random-voted at the beginning of the game and never removed it. His votables do include PW but they also have SJ and not Vicarin.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon May 20, 2019 8:37 am UTC

bessie wrote:Since SuicideJunkie did ask LaserGuy for clarification on his night result (see here) and most certainly has an answer by now, I think he should confirm that his result was “No Result”, as opposed to “your target did not visit anyone” or “your target was not visited by anyone”.
I don't disagree with you here, but do you think he should (also) reveal his downside?
bessie wrote:Nice attempt to use my vote to tie me to Vicarin, but Sabrar already tried. See my response to Sabrar here.
My reasoning is slightly different to Sabrar's, so your defence doesn't apply. Sabrar's comments, and your defence, are about the act of tying the votals. Mine is simpler, and simply that you chose to vote against SuicideJunkie and not Vicarin at a time where it keeps his wagon firmly in the picture. It's not a big point, but enough to put you in the "possible buddies" camp.
bessie wrote:His unwillingness to clarify information that he willingly volunteered.
This is probably the main reason I have for my current concern with SJ. Do you have any other points against him? Why do you think he willingly volunteered the information in the first place?
bessie wrote:I sometimes use scum for generic non-town, and mafia and independent for specifics. But you’re correct, I generally don’t use scum, too much confusion because many do use it to refer specifically to mafia. I’ve explained this before but I can’t point to it off the top of my head. Sabrar can probably confirm. I used it here because interestingly, the Apps did not flip as “mafia”.
Right, okay. Your point I was referencing queried why freezeblade was analyzing "confirmed scum", but BoomFrog might be telling the truth, in which case, it may not be beneficial to lynch him. The way you asked this says to me that you are trying to discourage people considering the case where BoomFrog is telling the truth, which I find scummy. Why shouldn't freezeblade try to analyse BoomFrog?
bessie wrote:So you did have a guess to his role on D1, long before he made his “snooped on what dimochka was up to” tracker comment.
This might be a phrasing issue. When I said "at least", I meant I had a guess about the negative aspect, but that might not be all to the role.

I've not got through all the post yet, and am at work now, so will continue responses this evening, hopefully.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 8:53 am UTC

moody7277 wrote:Well, if you start with the hypothesis of "townie frustrated with the utility of his role" you can explain quite a lot of his D1 behavior.
Except you can't. SuicideJunkie hinted very strongly at a specific downside of his role but that in no way warrants the doom and gloom. bessie also explained this with a pretty good guess.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why do you think he willingly volunteered the information in the first place?
I know this wasn't addressed to me but this is an easy one and I would be surprised if your question were genuine and you haven't thought of the reason before. SuicideJunkie even spells this out himself.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby somitomi » Mon May 20, 2019 10:39 am UTC

I've reread Dimochka, but (like always) found myself extracting little from that venture. I do have some notes:
  • promises to vote in the next post here but doesn't deliver on that for quite a while (even if you count the underline vote)
  • consistently has Vicarin in the middle so he could be his buddy
Beyond that I didn't see anything suspicious, although moody's has a point about his foresighted setup spec, that adds to the tiny bits of suspicion I have. I'm struggling with the fact that SuicideJunkie is also quite suspicious to me and I'm not sure I can reconcile the two. Scum!SJ would explain why he shared his result though and I still think the result isn't fake, that's too shaky to pull off.
moody7277 wrote:Well, if you start with the hypothesis of "townie frustrated with the utility of his role" you can explain quite a lot of his D1 behavior. The D2 stuff where he claims no result about dimochka is still somewhat confusing because I don't know whether he was talking about tracking dim or watching him; directly asking would be rolefishing, so no dice there. Conclusion: +2.5

I've probably said this before, but I'm more confused by why he voluntarily shared a result that doesn't seem to hold much information.
bessie wrote:Yeah at this rate he may even have a solid opinion on something by D4.

Well, we can't all be doggone sure about ourselves :wink:
dimochka wrote:I don't see how you assume that there is another kill power. Why isn't scum plus cult possible, with scum being an issue but also a bit more of a red herring to mask cult?

Because mafia would have a ridiculously hard time winning against town+cult with a one-shot kill and a vote thief. It's not balanced if one faction is added as a "red herring".

TOWN
jimbob
Sabrar
wam
bessie
freezeblade
moody
dimochka
SuicideJunkie
BoomFrog
SCUNNERS

ninja'd by Sabrar
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 11:29 am UTC

somitomi wrote:I'm struggling with the fact that SuicideJunkie is also quite suspicious to me and I'm not sure I can reconcile the two.
Why can't you reconcile it in a potential multiball setup?

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 20, 2019 12:26 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
moody7277 wrote:Well, if you start with the hypothesis of "townie frustrated with the utility of his role" you can explain quite a lot of his D1 behavior.

Except you can't. SuicideJunkie hinted very strongly at a specific downside of his role but that in no way warrants the doom and gloom. bessie also explained this with a pretty good guess.


Distilling a lot of his doom and gloom, he was saying "Better for town if I were mislynched except that town loses a vote." Now, if you remove that hypothesis he's what? Still town who doesn't like his role? Scum who's bucking the "scum doesn't like attention" paradigm? If you could quote what bessie's explanation for his weirdness is, I'd appreciate it.

Unless somi has a very sharp cliff after me on that T->S list, his placement of freezeblade looks a little odd (next to me? when the data puts him at +9 or so?)
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 1)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 12:59 pm UTC

I hoped people would take the time to do their own research. But see below:
bessie wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:1) My role has features that make me likely to be mislynched, IMO.
This would be a level of bastardry that I would hope is outside the scope of “moderate”. Even if you only needed, say, two less votes to be lynched, you would still need four votes, which means you would have to be moderately scummy to be lynched.

I think what bessie brings up as an example is pretty close to what SJ alluded to.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby bessie » Mon May 20, 2019 1:28 pm UTC

Quick informational post, I’m leaving for work. My last opportunity to post before deadline will be approximately 23.5 hours from the time of this post. I will 100% certain not be able to post, not even a quick check or vote switch, in the last four hours of D2. Those of you attempting to scum read me for not being around at deadline will need to invent another reason.

I won’t have time to respond to anything until I get home from work tonight. Though I was considering replying to jimbob’s latest post with 5 pictures of “cynical bessie”. Except this, because it is so odd.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:So you did have a guess to his role on D1, long before he made his “snooped on what dimochka was up to” tracker comment.
This might be a phrasing issue. When I said "at least", I meant I had a guess about the negative aspect, but that might not be all to the role.
No guess to SuicideJunkie’s role, from someone who’s talent is his ability to figure out roles? It’s like me having no guess at the setup.

viewtopic.php?p=4454047#p4454047
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:jimbobmacdoodle, booooo, you don’t get to join the players who are magic club... yet.
Well, my role guesses based on limited info are usually pretty magic, so let's see! I'll be annoyed with myself if I talked myself out of voting scum!SuicideJunkie now though...


Gotta leave for real.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 20, 2019 1:35 pm UTC

Okay, so while the stated level of bastardy may rule it out mechanically, SJ's opinion of the role may still be as advertised, overblown as it may be.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 pm UTC

I'm not sure what you're saying here. If it is mechanically ruled out, how can SJ's opinion to the role be genuine?
Anyway I don't think the hinted role is as severe, making the reaction even more overblown.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 20, 2019 2:26 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:I'm not sure what you're saying here. If it is mechanically ruled out, how can SJ's opinion to the role be genuine?
Anyway I don't think the hinted role is as severe, making the reaction even more overblown.


Bottom line, is SJ's overreaction alignment indicative?
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 2:43 pm UTC

From a strictly personal experience I believe so. I get depressed as scum when I think I'm on the wrong side of the balance, not so as Town.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 20, 2019 2:56 pm UTC

Well, I'm not going to get any traction on domichka. If SJ had a real role that explained all of his behaviours he'd have claimed something specific by now.

Vote SJ
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby somitomi » Mon May 20, 2019 3:13 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
somitomi wrote:I'm struggling with the fact that SuicideJunkie is also quite suspicious to me and I'm not sure I can reconcile the two.
Why can't you reconcile it in a potential multiball setup?

Well yes, but it's not surely multiball and I can get hung up on apparent inconsistencies within my reads.
Sabrar wrote:I'm not sure what you're saying here. If it is mechanically ruled out, how can SJ's opinion to the role be genuine?
Anyway I don't think the hinted role is as severe, making the reaction even more overblown.

Well, SJ could just be overly dramatic about a negative utility. Although I agree that this seems to be beyond that...
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 20, 2019 3:56 pm UTC

@Sabrar-- Next question is, is BoomFrog or SJ the bigger threat? I know how I come down on that question, but I'm curious as to your opinion.

Vote: BoomFrog
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Mon May 20, 2019 4:26 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:@Sabrar-- Next question is, is BoomFrog or SJ the bigger threat? I know how I come down on that question, but I'm curious as to your opinion.

Vote: BoomFrog

If you lynch SJ first then I might get myself killed tonight. Win win. Especially with such an obvious target to protect like a claimed cop.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby freezeblade » Mon May 20, 2019 5:00 pm UTC

[quote="jimbobmacdoodle"]@freezeblade - are your results Town/Not Town, or Town/Not Town/Scum? In other words, would you be able to distinguish between a) two different scum factions, and b) an indie/scum? I'm assuming the former, but thought it worth confirming.

My results come in Town/Non-town format, that is, if last night was any indication. My role PM has no indication to the form or wording of the results.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Mon May 20, 2019 5:43 pm UTC

moody7277 wrote:@Sabrar-- Next question is, is BoomFrog or SJ the bigger threat?
BoomFrog is a much more experienced player and definitely the more dangerous in that regard. However I'm pretty certain that SJ has a kill that was blocked/prevented and BoomFrog might not have one. So ability-wise I think SJ is the bigger threat. However BoomFrog's ability cannot be verified in any way if he remains alive and SJ claimed an investigative type of role which could be, even though he should 100% be blocked tonight.
Overall BoomFrog is the better choice but there is a small chance that this will screw us.

PS: why have you voted before hearing my opinion?

PS2: as with D1 I'll be afk during the deadline, last chance to post will be 1-2 hours before.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby dimochka » Mon May 20, 2019 6:14 pm UTC

somitomi wrote:promises to vote in the next post here but doesn't deliver on that for quite a while (even if you count the underline vote)

I'm pretty sure I explained myself when underline voting AND I voted for whom I thought was scummy (and still do) AND I was available around deadline in case anything weird happens. You bringing this up sounds a lot like nit-picking and I fully disagree with it.

somitomi wrote:
dimochka wrote:I don't see how you assume that there is another kill power. Why isn't scum plus cult possible, with scum being an issue but also a bit more of a red herring to mask cult?

Because mafia would have a ridiculously hard time winning against town+cult with a one-shot kill and a vote thief. It's not balanced if one faction is added as a "red herring".

To some degree, agree with you. With that being said, I don't know that scum doesn't have some other mechanism that helps it out, or that it was truly setup in a balanced way (I hope it was, but I have no proof of that). So I get the point, but I don't necessarily think that it's true.

@Jimbob - you asked earlier who you think has it out for me. I don't think anyone necessarily has it out for me, but I would not be surprised if (a) scum would try to target me in some way to frame me, or (b) someone like moody or bessie would target me based on their reads and thoughts regarding me. I think it's more likely that SJ was targeted by someone instead.

Vote Boomfrog

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby moody7277 » Mon May 20, 2019 7:38 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:PS: why have you voted before hearing my opinion?


Because I've been accused of hedging and waiting for backup too many times, regardless of alignment, to want to do that this time.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby somitomi » Mon May 20, 2019 8:30 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:I'm pretty sure I explained myself when underline voting AND I voted for whom I thought was scummy (and still do) AND I was available around deadline in case anything weird happens. You bringing this up sounds a lot like nit-picking and I fully disagree with it.

I don't have any issue with the underlined vote (I'm about to do something like that). You promised to vote in your very next post but then made two rather long, detailed posts before placing a vote in the third one. I admit it's not a big thing, but I found it odd.

My vote is on BoomFrog at this point, but I don't want to risk anyone hammering. I'm going to return in about 10-12 hours to place an actual vote and I'll probaby be here around deadline.

Could we have votals please?
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon May 20, 2019 8:53 pm UTC

I've not heard any dissenting opinions, so I'm going to say the following to SuicideJunkie:

@SuicideJunkie - if you do not completely claim everything negative about your role before the end of Day 2, a) I will be voting for you throughout tomorrow from my first post, no questions asked (barring a freezeblade town result on you), and b) will not believe anything you claim or say. The exception to this is if somebody here explicitly tells you not to do this, with good reason. If you can't claim the negatives without revealing something about your positivies, fine, reveal what you need to to answer this. Vague hints and suggestions will not cut it any more.

More to follow. I'm going to have to abandon responses with the aim of getting up some reads, as I've got to this a lot later than I'd hoped today. I'll try to catch up on responses in the morning. If anybody has anything urgent they want me to respond to, please quote ping me.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon May 20, 2019 10:15 pm UTC

Reads, focusing on the players I have the most doubts about currently.

bessie (previously leaning town/3rd place):
Spoiler:
Doesn't like wam's Sabrar read. Responds to me explaining her FoS comments. Thinks Mafia is watching, not leading. SJ her current top vote pick. Stands by setup spec. Needs reads from SJ. Doesn't think she has large enough sample size for role power info. Votes SJ.

D2. Nothing to claim. Explains alignment/cop thoughts. Asks moody about his lack of leniency towards PW. Dangerously optimistic to assume all kills are one-shot. Asks SJ if he thinks he was roleblocked. Didn't think moody would answer her. Asks SJ why he thinks there are exactly two scum factions. Comments on wam two doctor/rb comments. Sceptical of SJ's claim, because it would imply two roleblockers. Comments on my post, and doesn't like my SJ thoughts or my roleblocker comments. Doesn't like freezeblade reread. Still likes 8-3. Finds vote thief strong. Considering wam is cult. Posts vague comments about various players. SJ is too late to unclaim, and scummy not to clarify. Asks somitomi for conclusion on roleblock/dimochka lying. Thinks SJ and BoomFrog scum team, Sabrar second choice behind BoomFrog. Thinks BoomFrog is trying to set SJ up for a vig claim, and that I believe SJ to be a watcher due to a breadcrumb. Gives backup guess with somitomi/moody as second scum team and BF as indie. Points out BF inconsistency over scum reading dimochka and not moody. Doesn't want to discuss town power setup. Thinks SJ messed up attempted false claim. Defends her vote on Vicarin and timing. Various responses to people, mostly inconsequential. Thinks early votes might have been about attempts to not build connections. Doesn't like somitomi slow read development. Responds to my post about her. Responds to my comment about her Vicarin vote by referring me to her response to Sabrar. Finds SJ scummy for being unwilling to clarify volunteered information. Explains why she thinks I believed SJ to be watcher. Various responses that I don't think really answer my comments.
I've been feeling rather bad about her for much of D2. Her responses to some of my points haven't made me feel much better about her either. It might be me misreading her, but I feel like she's deliberately trying to evade or spin the question/her responses so that she looks better. See for example her response to my question about her Vicarin vote, and similarly, the two items I've commented on below. Also not in her favour is her insistence on tying all her reads into a setup spec that really doesn't fit my feel for the game. Her backup spec is marginally better, but she has put moody and somitomi in the second mafia with little explanation as to why. I do have to account for how I read her as somewhat townie on D1, but I do feel like her content is taking a nose-dive. Wild guess with very little evidence: bessie is scum buddies with BoomFrog, who has a better power than him, and she's feeling concerned because of the amount of pressure her buddy is under. Overall opinion: leaning scum.
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why would wam try to recruit BoomFrog then?
See revised and more detailed setup spec here:
bessie’s setup spec wrote:In both setups, the Church of Moo is the McGuffin.
@bessie - this isn't an explanation for why cult!wam would recruit BoomFrog, as the original context indicates, since in both your setup specs (either only Apps + Town, or Apps + Town + Mafia + Indie), there isn't room for a cult.
bessie wrote:
Spoiler:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:What do you think about SuicideJunkie's vote on Vicarin?
SuicideJunkie’s vote, page 3.
SuicideJunkie wrote:Vote Vicarin

for now, but I'm all alone in it so that will probably have to change to a compromise.

Votals immediately before SuicideJunkie’s vote switch:

Peaceful Whale (1): moody
SuicideJunkie (2): jimbobmacdoodle, Vicarin
jimbobmacdoodle (1): SuicideJunkie
BoomFrog (1): Peaceful Whale
dimochka (1): BoomFrog

Not voting: bessie, dimochka, freezeblade, Sabrar, wam

Time remaining, about 3 days, 15 hours.

You want to know what I think, just reference the second post on this page:
bessie wrote:Why is everyone discounting early votes for (theoretical) scum mates as an attempt at a bus, and not just as an attempt to make not-connections, knowing they can probably move the vote later?
See also SuicideJunkie's comment when he voted that he would probably be moving his vote later.
(spoilered for length) Right, but he never did. His final vote was on Vicarin, and he could have probably come up with an excuse to move it had he wanted to. How do you explain the position of his vote at day end, given you have him as Vicarin's buddy?

BoomFrog (previously likely scum):
Spoiler:
Votes SJ late on D1. Explains as not liking his vagueness later on. Thinks he's newbie scum bowing under pressure. "Figured out" SJ's role and switches to Vicarin. Vicarin felt decently townie; SJ was defiantly town, but expectations not materialized. Asks me what I expected he'd do differently. Suggests possible other setups. Hopes wam info will help. Claims Heroic Nihilist and targeted me. Thinks scumminess came from lack of time. Admits that original claim was hard sell, and thinks his power is a bit of a joke if no full NK available. Dies instead of target, and states that his protection comes first. Argues against Sabrar read of SJ. Explains why his extra detail is important/made up. Asks why he would be selected for a kill. Doesn't think only repeating kill in hands of SK is good game design. SJ should stop leaking info. Explains setup thoughts to me. Promises reads. Gives reads list, with wam, freezeblade, me town; somitomi, SJ, moody middle of the road; bessie (poking, not sinking teeth in), Sabrar (very passive), dimochka (non-vote/lazy reads) all scum. Votes dimochka. Switches vote to SJ as he would have claimed something specific by now with a real role. Hopes he can get himself killed tonight.
From BoomFrog's tone alone, I feel like there is a very good chance he's telling the truth. However, one major thing stands out to me, and that is that he didn't claim to be Church of Moo up front, and reacted with complete surprise to it, rather than trying to explain it away (e.g. acknowledges he got recruited, suggests this has affected his alignment or similar). I also feel like there's significant information gain by lynching BoomFrog, regardless of whether he is telling the truth or not. In particular, I'm curious to see what, if anything, we learn about the Church of Moo from BoomFrog's flip. If it is a cult, then we should get his current win condition in the final reveal, I feel, though I will ask. If it isn't a cult, wam is at worst a harmless indie, and at best town with a weird side-effect to his ability. My D1 scummy read on him no longer really influences things here, because the reasoning could be explained easily by indie!BoomFrog. I give him about a 40/60 chance of being indie versus being scum. I don't have a feel for whether he is Vicarin's buddy or not.

Do cult recruits flip with a) their original win condition, b) their new win condition, or c) both?

@wam - do recruits know they have been recruited?

.... And that was all I got through in over an hour :( Here's my approximate largely gut-influenced ordered list:

Town
wam (assuming BoomFrog isn't a cult recruit, roleblock makes perfect sense)
freezeblade (cop result is very promising, could be a second scum team, but I don't think so currently)
somitomi (feels like he's putting in effort to get involved, but needs reads before day end)
Sabrar (nothing stands out either way here)
dimochka (nothing stands out either way here)
moody7277 (nothing stands out either way here)
SuicideJunkie (content is not helping anybody now, and is being deliberately obtuse)
bessie (see above)
BoomFrog (could be indie instead)
Scum
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon May 20, 2019 11:59 pm UTC

Current votals:

BoomFrog (4): wam, freezeblade, moody, dimochka
SuicideJunkie (2): bessie, BoomFrog

Not voting: jimbobmacdoodle, Sabrar, somitomi, SuicideJunkie

Deadline is in 17 hours

Flips will show current wincon only.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby bessie » Tue May 21, 2019 1:58 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:Since SuicideJunkie did ask LaserGuy for clarification on his night result (see here) and most certainly has an answer by now, I think he should confirm that his result was “No Result”, as opposed to “your target did not visit anyone” or “your target was not visited by anyone”.
I don't disagree with you here, but do you think he should (also) reveal his downside?
As you know, I’m (in general) not pro-claim just for the sake of claiming, and against claiming for the sole purpose of saving one’s self from the lynch. I don’t really see an urgent need for SuicideJunkie to claim yet (unless he is a PGO or the like because if he lives to N2 there’a a good chance he will be investigated). The reason I want him to clarify his night result is that he already claimed it and the lack of clarification is creating confusion. Since he won’t share his answer from LaserGuy, I’m going to go with he got “No Result” as in blocked or untargetable (as opposed to “your target didn’t do anything”) based on this post where he posts his theories on what No Result means. SuicideJunkie could be lying, but I’m also going to consider that he may have really been roleblocked.

SuicideJunkie, do you really not see how anti-town your refusal to clarify has been? I mean, you are the one that voluntarily claimed.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:My reasoning is slightly different to Sabrar's, so your defence doesn't apply. Sabrar's comments, and your defence, are about the act of tying the votals. Mine is simpler, and simply that you chose to vote against SuicideJunkie and not Vicarin at a time where it keeps his wagon firmly in the picture. It's not a big point, but enough to put you in the "possible buddies" camp.
No, it’s the same defense. Both Vicarin and SuicideJunkie were viable options. Interesting how you are presenting Vicarin as the only possible option on D1 which is not true.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:His unwillingness to clarify information that he willingly volunteered.
This is probably the main reason I have for my current concern with SJ. Do you have any other points against him? Why do you think he willingly volunteered the information in the first place?
Insert cynical bessie pic. If I have to explain this to you...

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Right, okay. Your point I was referencing queried why freezeblade was analyzing "confirmed scum", but BoomFrog might be telling the truth, in which case, it may not be beneficial to lynch him. The way you asked this says to me that you are trying to discourage people considering the case where BoomFrog is telling the truth, which I find scummy. Why shouldn't freezeblade try to analyse BoomFrog?
For those that want context, see here.

1. To freezeblade, BoomFrog is confirmed scum. To the rest of us, that’s something we need to decide.
2. freezeblade has very limited time. He only had time to draw conclusions on two players: BoomFrog and bessie.
3. Why should freezeblade “waste” his precious time on the player on which he has a not-town cop result?
4. OooOooOoo, you caught me. I have been totally pushing BoomFrog’s lynch today and ignoring everyone else. Have I really really been so blatantly obviously focused on lynching BoomFrog today???

moody7277 wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I'm not sure what you're saying here. If it is mechanically ruled out, how can SJ's opinion to the role be genuine?
Anyway I don't think the hinted role is as severe, making the reaction even more overblown.


Bottom line, is SJ's overreaction alignment indicative?
moody kinda has a point here. A weak one, but a point.

dimochka wrote: @Jimbob - you asked earlier who you think has it out for me. I don't think anyone necessarily has it out for me, but I would not be surprised if (a) scum would try to target me in some way to frame me, or (b) someone like moody or bessie would target me based on their reads and thoughts regarding me. I think it's more likely that SJ was targeted by someone instead.
I did target you, which should be totally obvious in retrospect to those that missed all my shitty breadcrumbs. Why do you think I am so sure that you were not untargetable last night?

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:bessie (previously leaning town/3rd place):

D2. Nothing to claim.
You are misrepresenting my words. This is what I posted:
bessie wrote:I have nothing that I feel like claiming.


jimbobmacdoodle wrote: Also not in her favour is her insistence on tying all her reads into a setup spec that really doesn't fit my feel for the game.
Just because you think the setup doesn’t fit your criteria as to what is correct and logical and the right way to do something, doesn’t make it wrong.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
bessie wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why would wam try to recruit BoomFrog then?
See revised and more detailed setup spec here:
bessie’s setup spec wrote:In both setups, the Church of Moo is the McGuffin.
@bessie - this isn't an explanation for why cult!wam would recruit BoomFrog, as the original context indicates, since in both your setup specs (either only Apps + Town, or Apps + Town + Mafia + Indie), there isn't room for a cult.
What are you not understanding? I don’t think there’s an actual cult. I think wam may just be an ordinary roleblocker that leaves evidence that he has visited someone (by labeling them as Church of Moo). Many have theorized about weak powers, or negative aspects. I think this is just a clever variation of Loud.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: (spoilered for length) Right, but he never did. His final vote was on Vicarin, and he could have probably come up with an excuse to move it had he wanted to. How do you explain the position of his vote at day end, given you have him as Vicarin's buddy?
Who was he going to move it to, follow moody on Peaceful Whale? Already covered here:
bessie wrote:Sabrar, have you considered that in my proposed setup spec, that between Vicarin and SuicideJunkie, SuicideJunkie has the more valuable power?


This will be interesting. Will jimbob vote for BoomFrog, even though he’s been pushing against it as the day progresses? Will he vote SuicideJunkie, who he’s also been supporting all day? Or will he find an excuse to vote for me me me?

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 21, 2019 8:00 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Wild guess with very little evidence: bessie is scum buddies with BoomFrog,

jimbobmacdoodle wrote: the reasoning could be explained easily by indie!BoomFrog. I give him about a 40/60 chance of being indie versus being scum. I don't have a feel for whether he is Vicarin's buddy or not.

This is strange, as if jimbob didn't look at the overall picture, just considering each element separately from the rest. I think his reversal of opinion on bessie is not substantiated by facts (and indeed a lot of his points boils down to how he 'feels').

Work suddenly picked up, I'll check back from time to time but probably won't have much to say. My underlined vote is on BoomFrog.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 21, 2019 8:46 am UTC

Bessie, I'm on record as thinking that BoomFrog should be today's lynch, and would vote for him were he not at L-2 already.
Sabrar wrote:This is strange, as if jimbob didn't look at the overall picture, just considering each element separately from the rest
That's how I tend to do these kinds of reads, when under time pressure. The bessie conclusion re. BoomFrog buddy was more to illustrate where I began to notice a tone shift in her. If I have more time, I'll try to draw a big picture conclusion, but given my belief of multiball, I'm not spending too much time trying to seriously nail down a possible team at this point in the game.

I see SuicideJunkie hasn't posted whilst I've been asleep...

No further responses so that I can get on with reads.

SuicideJunkie (mild townie lean/4th scummiest):
Spoiler:
Talks maths. Obvious things are not so obvious to others. Thinks his claim is more likely useful than naïve reads. Bessie might not have seen a town role. She's moving down his list. Thinks she'll "rue this day". Doesn't like Vic linking him to BoomFrog to make BF look townie. Thinks personality means he'll get lynched. Helping might cost more than provides. Doesn't understand responses to his vote. Thinks I might have got something out of it. Thinks Vic probably scum. Wants people to wait before lynching him. Don't need to worry about tied votes with him around.

D2. Tried to snoop on what dimochka was up to and got No Result. Freezeblade result implies multiball. Happy if all kills one shot. D2 should follow cop. Town win con makes multiball obvious. Less murder good for town and doubly good for him. Thinks cop more likely messed with than Church being good. Discusses possibility of cult Church. Discusses number of scum factions. Asks wam more about his role. Doesn't think BF's modification resolves wam issues. BF role makes sense for balance purposes. Leans towards fewer roleblockers. Has asked mod for clarity, but doesn't give answer. Possible wam has only roleblock. Theorises over No Result. Wished we knew more.
SuicideJunkie wrote:A lot of things I think are obvious are not so to other people.
Like what?

I have two big issues with SuicideJunkie and his comtent. The first is that he's posted almost no reads at all. The second is as bessie mentioned, namely that he has failed to clarify willingly volunteered information. He's said almost nothing of use D2. I was willing to cut him some slack on D1 especially as his leaking felt like coming from a townie place, but he has gotten significantly worse since. I'm now thinking he's following the super beginner scum tactic of trying to cause distraction and confusion, without realising that he needs to seem Town whilst doing so. I don't think he's town any more. There's a chance he's a Jester or similar, but more likely he's just scum.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 21, 2019 9:04 am UTC

But you simply have to look at the big picture. If BF is Vic's buddy then he didn't have a kill N1. If he is bessie's buddy then why didn't bessie perform the kill? Either way it is unlikely that wam's rb stopped the nk. And that will have a direct influence on the rest of setup as well.

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby somitomi » Tue May 21, 2019 9:27 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I have two big issues with SuicideJunkie and his comtent. The first is that he's posted almost no reads at all. The second is as bessie mentioned, namely that he has failed to clarify willingly volunteered information. He's said almost nothing of use D2. I was willing to cut him some slack on D1 especially as his leaking felt like coming from a townie place, but he has gotten significantly worse since. I'm now thinking he's following the super beginner scum tactic of trying to cause distraction and confusion, without realising that he needs to seem Town whilst doing so. I don't think he's town any more. There's a chance he's a Jester or similar, but more likely he's just scum.

Where in the world is SuicideJunkie? Hasn't posted for something like 40 hours now.
I stated I'd vote for BoomFrog, but I don't want to put him at L-1 yet. My second choice right now is SJ so in the interest of pressuring him (should he show up in the remaining 7.5 hours):
vote: SuicideJunkie
I'll keep an eye on the thread for the remainder of the day.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby wam » Tue May 21, 2019 10:50 am UTC

This is probably my last chance to post before deadline. I'm staying on bf for the lynch.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue May 21, 2019 12:28 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:But you simply have to look at the big picture. If BF is Vic's buddy then he didn't have a kill N1. If he is bessie's buddy then why didn't bessie perform the kill? Either way it is unlikely that wam's rb stopped the nk. And that will have a direct influence on the rest of setup as well.
I'm not claiming BoomFrog attempted a kill. I think it is quite possible somebody else did and that it failed for whatever reason (target was immune, target was protected by doctor etc). It's not affecting my read of either him or bessie.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 21, 2019 3:20 pm UTC

Vote: BoomFrog

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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby BoomFrog » Tue May 21, 2019 3:21 pm UTC

If you don't think I'm SK you should let me live one more night. SJ is really likely to be scum and is almost certainly going to be lynched tomorrow. If you let me live one night I might take care of myself.
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Re: Unlikely Superheroes (Day 2)

Postby SuicideJunkie » Tue May 21, 2019 3:49 pm UTC

RL got in the way, and this morning was backed up at work.
Not much time so I'll try to hit some highlights:

somitomi wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:Since there still seems to be problematic confusion on the issue:
I have some theories on the No Result.
A) Dimochka is an invalid target for me, either temporarily or permanently.
B) No Result is the result.
C) I was roleblocked directly.
D) Splash effect from something on Dimochka.

So which one is most likely in your opinion and why? What do you mean by "no result is the result" for that matter?

In order of likelihood, in my limited skill opinion.

Also, since it was asked later in the thread, I am told I can't distinguish between different flavours of No Result.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Is there anybody who thinks SuicideJunkie shouldn't claim at least his disadvantage? I'm kind of inclined to ask him to do so, and would like to see if it lines up with my guess.

Sabrar wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:Less murder more arrests is good for town, and doubly good for me.
This wording specifically implies that you're not town.
Interesting observation. Not sure how much stock to put in it, based on SJ's relative newbieness, but it implies that he considers himself apart from the rest of town, right? I note that SuicideJunkie never commented on it.
@SuicideJunkie - why is less murder/more arrests better for you than for town (implied by the "doubly good" bit)?

1) I've sneakyposted the disadvantages upthread and can point them out if required.

2) I'm pretty sure I did; re "I can't be falsely accused of murder if nobody dies"

somitomi wrote:I've probably said this before, but I'm more confused by why he voluntarily shared a result that doesn't seem to hold much information.
The value should grow a little after I'm dead.

Sabrar wrote:So ability-wise I think SJ is the bigger threat. However BoomFrog's ability cannot be verified in any way if he remains alive and SJ claimed an investigative type of role which could be, even though he should 100% be blocked tonight.

That is a thing, unfortunately. I guessed wrong last night, and couldn't help, this time I'm pretty sure I can help, but there's no trust.


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