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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:47 am UTC
by plytho
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Ninja'ed by plytho. My own vote wasn't likely to move at the time (though note the "barring anything dramatic" comment). I never know what other people are going to do. What you're seeing is a difference in confidence levels due to how the Day has progressed and how I was reading the reads of the two of you before.
No, that's not what I'm seeing in those last quotes. I'm seeing you make a general statement (votes are opinions) and referring to an earlier statement that contradicts that (this is my day end vote).

This is not too worrying on its own, but you're using that general statement referring specifically to the situation where you used the contradictory statement in order to dismiss my explanation.

So yeah, I still believe me voting to put LaserGuy at L-1 when you and Sabrar were looking like (and you explicitly saying) you weren't going to go anywhere would be the deciding vote and it was therefore easy for me to decide whether LaserGuy would be lynched.

You say your confidence in the LaserGuy lynch changed due to how the day progressed, which is further evidence that me backing off there was significant.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:55 am UTC
by Sabrar
plytho wrote:So yeah, I still believe me voting to put LaserGuy at L-1 when you and Sabrar were looking like (and you explicitly saying) you weren't going to go anywhere would be the deciding vote and it was therefore easy for me to decide whether LaserGuy would be lynched.
This is impossible to judge but I would disagree. We're all experienced enough not to put the hammer down early (and someone would have 100% pointed out that LG was at L-1). At that point discussions continue and the day could have resolved the same way (e.g. I don't think there was enough pressure on mpolo for having to claim in this world, so in that hypothetical world he still could have claimed and moved the day in the same direction as happened).

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:16 am UTC
by plytho
I wasn't using L-1 to refer to hammer. I was using it to point out how strong the wagon would have been.

You might be right about mpolo but that's after the fact and not what I'm talking about.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:36 am UTC
by plytho
Madge wrote: I'm trying to pick up now.

moody7277 wrote:Well, based on PoE, scum have to be in {Madge, jimbob, plytho}.

Both of you should have been voting already. Please make sure your next post has a vote.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:58 am UTC
by moody7277
Well, since I may not get another post in before deadline...

Vote: plytho

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:15 pm UTC
by plytho
moody7277 wrote:Well, since I may not get another post in before deadline...

Vote: plytho

How unfortunate that you won't be able to post even a single opinion on jimbob D2.

moody7277 wrote:plytho has been tunneling jimbob all game based on vague intuition. His D2 original sin is thinking LG's gambit was based on night planning and making him #2 scum because of it (jimbob forever being #1 in his heart). Despite what he says in his last post, when the LG mislynch started gaining traction, he felt he'd be implicated and abandoned wagon (although not with out the possibility of return according to post 60).
I spent al lot of time getting LaserGuy to understand that scumreading him for that vote made sense fmpov. Why did you ignore all that? Me being afraid of being implicated for LaserGuy's mislynch is just silly.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:17 pm UTC
by plytho
Btw, am I the only one who thinks this looks like a slip?
moody7277 wrote:At this point plytho thinks he's solved the game and isn't going anywhere else

Re: Wams belated simple game

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:25 pm UTC
by plytho
Votals:
Moody - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle
Plytho - 2 - sabrar, moody
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - laserguy, plytho

Not voting: Madge, mpolo

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:30 pm UTC
by Sabrar
plytho wrote:Btw, am I the only one who thinks this looks like a slip?
moody7277 wrote:At this point plytho thinks he's solved the game and isn't going anywhere else

Not seeing the slip there.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:30 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
plytho wrote:Btw, am I the only one who thinks this looks like a slip?
moody7277 wrote:At this point plytho thinks he's solved the game and isn't going anywhere else
Probably. Where's the slip?

I don't understand moody's tying himself to me. My best guess is that scum!him is trying to paint me as his buddy, in case he dies. I can't see a town motivation for this.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:33 pm UTC
by Sabrar
plytho wrote:
Madge wrote: I'm trying to pick up now.

moody7277 wrote:Well, based on PoE, scum have to be in {Madge, jimbob, plytho}.

Both of you should have been voting already. Please make sure your next post has a vote.

Why didn't you ask mpolo to vote? It's true he's confirmed town but his vote could still be crucial so that scum can't cause a mislynch.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:36 pm UTC
by plytho
Who, but town, would think they solved the game? Scum have nothing to solve. Moody is showing he thinks of me as town.

Ninja: I assume mpolo will vote but we're not going going to learn anything about mpolo from it. Madge and moody's vote do provide info now that we can use the next couple of hours.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:46 pm UTC
by plytho
Vote moody

Moody is the sure thing here.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:58 pm UTC
by Sabrar
plytho wrote:Who, but town, would think they solved the game? Scum have nothing to solve. Moody is showing he thinks of me as town.
I see your reasoning but the quote is a bit out-of-context. It's part of the re-read (when you try understand the other's pov), it's not part of the conclusion.

@all: seeing that my two most likely suspects are jimbob and plytho, them ganging up on moody looks really wrong to me. I can switch to jimbob if necessary but still would prefer plytho. Please don't switch to moody.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:10 pm UTC
by plytho
Sabrar wrote:Please don't switch to moody.
Why not moody? What do you about his lack of opinion on jimbob?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:20 pm UTC
by Sabrar
My main pro-moody point is that he didn't go for the easy mislynch of LaserGuy (assuming of course that LG is town). He was consistent in his read, unlike you.
I would prefer if he would post more but that can be said of others as well. What do you think about Madge and how she disappeared?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:36 pm UTC
by plytho
Sabrar wrote:My main pro-moody point is that he didn't go for the easy mislynch of LaserGuy (assuming of course that LG is town).
It does set him up for a bunch of town credit if he's the only one calling LaserGuy town ahead of flip.
Sabrar wrote:I would prefer if he would post more but that can be said of others as well.
Sure but specifically his last opinion on jimbob was D1. Doesn't that bother you?
Sabrar wrote:What do you think about Madge and how she disappeared?
I don't like it. She has been posting lists though. She's third scummiest for me.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:52 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@plytho: what do you make of the fact that jimbob refuses to vote for you (which would cause you to lead votals) and instead is voting for moody who is supposedly his buddy? What's your narrative here?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:57 pm UTC
by plytho
Sabrar wrote:@plytho: what do you make of the fact that jimbob refuses to vote for you (which would cause you to lead votals) and instead is voting for moody who is supposedly his buddy? What's your narrative here?

We've been over this. This is why I said I thought jimbob was annoyed.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:58 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
Don't like the moody wagon, not least because both plytho and jimbob are on it. I'd be fine with Madge but I really think jimbob is the best play today.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:00 pm UTC
by plytho
LaserGuy wrote:Don't like the moody wagon, not least because both plytho and jimbob are on it. I'd be fine with Madge but I really think jimbob is the best play today.

What do you think about moody's lack of opinion on jimbob?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:11 pm UTC
by Sabrar
@LaserGuy: will you be online around deadline?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:04 pm UTC
by plytho
plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I would prefer if he would post more but that can be said of others as well.
Sure but specifically his last opinion on jimbob was D1. Doesn't that bother you?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:11 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
Sabrar wrote:@LaserGuy: will you be online around deadline?


That's my intention, yes.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:15 pm UTC
by Sabrar
plytho wrote:
plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:I would prefer if he would post more but that can be said of others as well.
Sure but specifically his last opinion on jimbob was D1. Doesn't that bother you?

Actually incorrect, moody did a jimbob-read this Wednesday.

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Who, but town, would think they solved the game? Scum have nothing to solve. Moody is showing he thinks of me as town.
I see your reasoning but the quote is a bit out-of-context. It's part of the re-read (when you try understand the other's pov), it's not part of the conclusion.

Do you want to address this?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:23 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Don't like the moody wagon, not least because both plytho and jimbob are on it. I'd be fine with Madge but I really think jimbob is the best play today.

What do you think about moody's lack of opinion on jimbob?


Hmm...

It could be something. I went back and looked at scum!moody on Meta Mafia and he didn't have a strong opinion on scum!jimbob for quite awhile. My sense is that moody tends to prioritize reading people who are he thinks are more likely to be scum to begin with, so it's possible it's just an artefact of how he goes through the game. I'd need to cross-reference with some recent Town games. If there's an association between moody and jimbob, I'd rather lynch jimbob though.

moody7277 wrote:plytho has been tunneling jimbob all game based on vague intuition. His D2 original sin is thinking LG's gambit was based on night planning and making him #2 scum because of it (jimbob forever being #1 in his heart). Despite what he says in his last post, when the LG mislynch started gaining traction, he felt he'd be implicated and abandoned wagon (although not with out the possibility of return according to post 60). Even with an OMGUS penalty of +0.5, I still have him at a -2.


I did also notice this earlier though. Not ironclad, but it is a common scumtell (specifically referring to a wagon-in-progress as a "mislynch").

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:40 pm UTC
by plytho
Sabrar wrote:Actually incorrect, moody did a jimbob-read this Wednesday.
do you mean the retroactive explanation for voting somitomi over jimbob?
Sabrar wrote:Do you want to address this?
I still think it looks slippy.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:04 pm UTC
by plytho
Sabrar wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Who, but town, would think they solved the game? Scum have nothing to solve. Moody is showing he thinks of me as town.
I see your reasoning but the quote is a bit out-of-context. It's part of the re-read (when you try understand the other's pov), it's not part of the conclusion.

Do you want to address this?
Now that I have a bit more time: it looks surprisingly unquestioning to me. Look at all his other intermezzo's (the non numbered comments) they are all critical (except the "have you seen my meta" joke).

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:06 pm UTC
by plytho
Like, moody wasn't just trying to see my pov. He was (cynically) painting me in a scummy light. Except for that one line, where he assumes I'm town. (like he did with LaserGuy early D1)

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:11 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
I'll be walking out my door in a few minutes to drive to my parents. It'll take me about 3 hours probably, so I should be back online by deadline. I'm slightly less confident than I was about plytho, but that's mostly OMGUS. Madge not voting is not good either, but it doesn't change my vote preference ordering which is LaserGuy > moody > Madge > plytho > Sabrar > me > mpolo. I'll switch my vote if necessary, but I don't think plytho is scum, and I do think at least one of moody and LaserGuy is. If I'm not back in a decent time before deadline, let me know if I should hammer if it's available to avoid any shenanigans. Otherwise, I won't (unless it's to break a 3v3 tie).

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:52 pm UTC
by plytho
So here is where I am currently at.

Moody is scum, I can't really see how he's not. Most likely buddy is jimbob although moody's distancing is maybe over the top, but this could be wine (moody emphasizing the link I spotted to make it "too obvious"). If not jimbob I'm guessing Madge. Not because of any particular connections.

Sabrar is about as town as mpolo. Faking that you think mpolo is claiming something else while actually knowing what the setup is to keep your Madge cop read going is insane.

Laserguy is the one I may be wrong about, but I doubt it.

I don't want to vote anyone but moody or jimbobmacdoodle. Might vote Madge to save myself.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:53 pm UTC
by plytho
Will be able to vote bit not much else the coming hours. (maybe a couple of lines during a toilet break)

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:55 pm UTC
by plytho
plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:Actually incorrect, moody did a jimbob-read this Wednesday.
do you mean the retroactive explanation for voting somitomi over jimbob?

Does that count for you?

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:15 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
@Sabrar: Who are your top votables at this point?

Re: Wams belated simple game

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:18 pm UTC
by wam


Votals

Plytho - 1 - sabrar, moody
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - laserguy,
Moody - - Jimbobmacdoodle, plytho

With 7 players it takes 4 to hammer.

Deadline is Friday 9 pm utc

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/g ... nt=cursive

2 hours 42 from now


Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:24 pm UTC
by Sabrar
plytho wrote:do you mean the retroactive explanation for voting somitomi over jimbob?
Yes, was on phone, didn't notice that it was retro. No, it doesn't really count, you're right.
plytho wrote:Moody is scum, I can't really see how he's not.
Why can't it be jimbob + Madge?

LaserGuy wrote:@Sabrar: Who are your top votables at this point?
1. plytho: he made too many arguments that I don't agree with or feel that they are weak.
2. jimbob: if not plytho then jimbob is in most scum-pairs,
3. moody: there are some good points brought up against him.
4. Madge: this would mostly be a lurker-lynch but I don't think we have the luxury. In my opinion Madge's flip wouldn't tell us a lot.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:00 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
Votals

Plytho - 2 - sabrar, moody
Jimbobmacdoodle - 1 - laserguy,
Moody - - Jimbobmacdoodle, plytho


:?
Assuming Madge and mpolo don't show up to vote, which is... possible, then I'm stuck choosing between moody and plytho which I'm not too happy about, with jimbob having the option of saving moody. I'll try to have another look at both in the next hour or so, I guess.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:17 pm UTC
by Sabrar
I guess if moody is willing (and online) then we could both switch to jimbob. Let's hope mpolo shows up at some point.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:23 pm UTC
by plytho
Sabrar wrote:Why can't it be jimbob + Madge?
Because I'm convinced moody's lack of a jimbob read means he's scum. I explicitly asked for one and pointed out the last one was D1 and still didn't get one. Why would town moody ever do that?

I think he realized he looks scummy and is a likely lynch and has been I really damage control mode.

Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:27 pm UTC
by mpolo
So, I'm here. Let me try to read a few from jimbob/plytho. My memory is that I was suspicious of jimbob early, but that that wore off over time.