Wams belated simple game - Day 3

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Madge » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:37 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:But thank you for clearing that up, game is now solved, scum-team is in {LaserGuy, moody, plytho}, we lynch them in any order and we win.


I trust you, but can you explain for the rest of the class? (OK i read your subsequent posts and you won't, fairynuff)

@sabrar: i put you above jimbob because i thin your reaction to mpolo's revelation is very townie and jimbob towniness was mostly informed by consensus than my own "reads". now your super secret information is intriguing but you could be scum doing something sneaky.

Sabrar wrote:@Madge: why didn't you ask for any result D2? Weren't you interested in them?

of course i was but everyone in here is experienced enough to reveal results when appropriate. if doc or cop or tracker had a useful result then they'd be out with it in a heartbeat. from the lack of people being out with it i assumed there was a lack of useful results

Laserguy looking worse. Sabrar looking better but weirder.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge - why did you end up being AWOL for several days? I also don't understand your LaserGuy opinion re. his case against plytho. You seemed to like it, but then put his as most likely scum. Please explain.


I literally have no excuse for being AWOL: Tuesday I was out all morning on site visits and then had D&D in the evening so that day was a write off and I didn't check in on Monday or in the afternoon. Sorry guys. I'm trying to pick up now.

TOWN
mpolo
Sabrar
Jimbobmacdoodle
moody7277
plytho
LaserGuy
SCUM
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:50 am UTC

@mpolo: You're an extremely likely target for the nk tonight. When using your ability you need to treat it as roleblock instead of protection. You need to block the scum who will perform the kill and hope that they don't have strongman . Don't listen to any suggestions, try to pick randomly from the two players who you find most scummy, that way scum can't mind-game you.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:44 am UTC

I've reread up to the top half of page 7. Will do more when I can. Currently my feeling is that scum-team is in {jimbob, Madge, plytho}. I have no real case though, just pings.

Vote: plytho

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:49 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:because I was leaning toward the idea that moody had a tracker-clear on me that he was using to partially justify his support of me.
Tracker only clears people after one of the scum is dead. This feels too weird to be coming from scum...
I don't think this is alignment indicative, especially given LaserGuy's subsequent explanation. Scum do make mistakes when providing fake responses sometimes.
Sabrar wrote:{jimbob, Madge, plytho}
Why not moody?
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge - why did you end up being AWOL for several days? I also don't understand your LaserGuy opinion re. his case against plytho. You seemed to like it, but then put his as most likely scum. Please explain.
Madge, you didn't answer the second half of this (i.e. the mismatch on your earlier LaserGuy read).
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:15 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I don't think this is alignment indicative, especially given LaserGuy's subsequent explanation. Scum do make mistakes when providing fake responses sometimes.
But the mistake is an inherent part of the argument, scum!LaserGuy is less likely to have that particular train-of-thought with the mistake included.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why not moody?
I just feel better about him. Contrary to plytho I don't think his 'mea culpa' is suspicious and his constant defense of LaserGuy looks more okay now. As scum he also could have waited to see if someone else would break the tie (unless he really wanted to save his buddy, which in this case would most likely be you).

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:17 am UTC

Vote:jimbob

Moody and jimbob's responses yesterday feel like they're scrambling. Jimbob suddenly putting me as very townie feels like he's trying to manipulate me.

Moody's "read" on jimbob is just silly.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:41 am UTC

plytho wrote:Jimbob suddenly putting me as very townie feels like he's trying to manipulate me.
I thought I'd already said this, but I looked back over my posts and I don't see that I did. I've not been feeling like you are scum for a few days now, especially given the way you and LaserGuy have been interacting. Would you prefer that I embrace my D1 tunnel and continue reading you as suspicious despite the evidence before me?
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:48 am UTC

@plytho: show me your progression and what I'm missing.

This is your starting bottom 4.
You then argue a lot with LaserGuy, also finding jimbob's explanation townie.
Here you have LaserGuy sinking and jimbob rising so LG should be at bottom.
You continue to argue with LaserGuy, arriving to this where you're out of goodwill.
Some further arguments, finally you accept that one of LG's reasoning makes sense.
You haven't done your moody-jimbob read yet, but suddenly after mpolo's claim LaserGuy is no longer your bottom
You like your moody-jimbob connection which you still haven't analyzed.
And now it's clear to you that it's jimbob+moody. Where did this come from?

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:52 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:Jimbob suddenly putting me as very townie feels like he's trying to manipulate me.
I thought I'd already said this, but I looked back over my posts and I don't see that I did. I've not been feeling like you are scum for a few days now, especially given the way you and LaserGuy have been interacting. Would you prefer that I embrace my D1 tunnel and continue reading you as suspicious despite the evidence before me?
I'd prefer you to say you're town reading me before you're under pressure. It's plausible that you forgot but it's at least equally plausible that sum!you were holding off on your read to be able to go wherever the wind blew. I think you may be a little annoyed about Sabrar's vote as it's too late for you to scumread me now and join that wagon.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:17 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:And now it's clear to you that it's jimbob+moody. Where did this come from?
The seed of jimbob moody came from you prodding me for a moody read.

I don't have time to link to posts but my LaserGuy town read was triggered by how easy it was to lynch him. I didn't feel entirely comfortable with that. I felt like I could have voted LaserGuy early in the day and seal his fate. To do that I felt I needed to be very confident in my read. At some point his night logic supplemented by his notes started to make sense to me. The only thing that didn't make sense was the basis for his read on me. So I started that line of questioning to show that my reasoning based on available info made sense. That ended in a very satisfying way and made town!LaserGuy quite possible.

That jimbob-moody connection then became the scummiest thing.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:29 pm UTC

But you still haven't shown how you analyzed that seed.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:39 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I think you may be a little annoyed about Sabrar's vote as it's too late for you to scumread me now and join that wagon.
Please explain this to me in more detail. Why would scum!jimbob be annoyed by my vote on you? If his partner is moody he should welcome it instead.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:39 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Hmmm... I'm really not liking D2 moody at all. He gets a small amount of credit from my D1 read of him, but there's nothing much that strikes me as townie from much of his play since then. First off, moody gets a negative point for being the deciding vote on a townie, although alone this is pretty weak, as noted in my N1 read of him. This however becomes particularly bad if LaserGuy is scum. Not sure how to perceive it if he is town, as that would mean a three-way town battle late on D1. Probably NAI (he'd need to vote as town or scum on one of the wagons), maybe slightly townie (I feel like scum would have preferred my or possibly LaserGuy's lynch over somitomi's). The fact that mpolo is essentially confirmed town means that moody's strong scum read for most of the game on him looks pretty bad on the surface, although to be fair it wasn't entirely unreasonable. His not responding to plytho re. a read on me also doesn't look good for reasons similar to why I don't like that LaserGuy didn't even acknowledge my earlier questions. I can certainly understand why plytho is linking us from this point (and the others he raised). I don't like his LaserGuy town read at all, mostly because it goes against my strong scum read of him. His mpolo/Madge team seemed to be rather plucked out of thin air. The only basis for it seemed to be their low content from D1 and early D2. Finally, his plytho suspicions have come out of nowhere, especially given that plytho was his joint-towniest read D1. About the only townie thing I'm seeing is that his cynical view reads seem reasonable, but this is reduced due to plytho's (and mine) being missing. Conclusion: likely scum. Would make a lot of sense as a LaserGuy buddy.
How strong is your case on moody if LaserGuy flips town?

Finally, his plytho suspicions have come out of nowhere, especially given that plytho was his joint-towniest read D1.
Why is this that much of an issue? You had moody as second most townie D1 and now he's in your suggested scum-team. Opinions change.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:47 pm UTC

plytho wrote:I don't have time to link to posts but my LaserGuy town read was triggered by how easy it was to lynch him. I didn't feel entirely comfortable with that. I felt like I could have voted LaserGuy early in the day and seal his fate.
Scum!LaserGuy only has one buddy. Madge was AWOL for much of the day, so would hardly have kicked up a fuss, and moody was actively reading him as town: it's not like there was universal agreement, so this argument doesn't make sense.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:32 pm UTC

I'm quite certain (not 1000% :roll: ) that at least one of jimbob & plytho is scum but I don't know which one of them and who their buddy is. There is some serious sheeping going on.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby LaserGuy » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:44 pm UTC

@wam: When is the new official deadline?

moody7277 wrote:
plytho wrote: @moody: do you have an opinion on jimbob?


Well, based on PoE, scum have to be in {Madge, jimbob, plytho}.


Who do you think is most likely?

Madge wrote:Laserguy looking worse. Sabrar looking better but weirder.


Can you explain why you think I'm "looking worse" between here and here? Also, what did you mean when you said "Waiting before I say anything" here?

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby moody7277 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:49 pm UTC

plytho

Spoiler:
post 1: rv LaserGuy
post 2: fluff
post 3: preferred setup has 2 vanilla mafia vs doc and RB
post 4: most feared setup
post 5: cuts through the whole "sneaky code" issue
post 6: fluff and an aside comment on jimbob being scum
post 7: jimbob "trying to act townie", also doesn't like mpolo
post 8: votes jimbob
post 9: responds to LaserGuy with praise and support

Cynical View here: plytho is doing the same thing to jimbob and mpolo that LaserGuy accused jimbob of

post 10: "Townies, by virtue of being townie, don't need to act townie, they just are."

Have you seen my meta? :lol:

post 11: Vanilla game means Sabrar's weirdness has no mechanics effect
post 12&13: votals request
post 14: modprod requests, T->S list with jimbob at bottom, Sabrar at top, follow up questions for several people
post 15: deadline request
post 16: flippant response to bessie being dubious about his post 10
post 17: fluff
post 18: confused by somi's HG2Gese
post 19: fluff
post 20: expansion of his point in post 10, saying jimbob is trying to fake his town meta, asks why LG's case was better

Cynical View here: maybe because LG had actual posts to point at rather than vague feelings about meta

post 21: question to jimbob about his "mistakes"
post 22: decides Sabrar has put forward a better way of saying his post 10 point

Really, Sabrar's point looks like the "care-free town" paradigm that I've used in the past

post 23: hedges on using Sabrar's standard on jimbob

Cynical View here: now that he has an easily understood measuring stick, he doesn't want to use it

post 24: partial reads list with jimbob still top scum, somi next scummiest.
post 25: concurs with Sabrar's interpretation on how his reads of jimbob and somi connect
post 26: says his scummy read of somi is based off big switch in jimbob read and/or small range in reads, reconsiders mpolo-somi scumteam
post 27: trying to interpret Sabrar's list, important votals, would have preferred jimbob as tiebreaker
post 28&29: response to jimbob about my tiebreaker vote

D2
post 30: repsonse to jimbob's comment about votals post flip
post 31: speculation about the NK, short reads with no change in positions
post 32: votals speculation on jimbob's options re tiebreaking, doesn't like LG's analysis
post 33: questions LG on his late D1 call to action post and his reasoning
post 34: vague pings on mpolo and me

Cynical View here: and we're back to the vague mudslinging that he was doing in posts 7-9

post 35&36: discussing with LG about his concerns
post 37&38: finally decides to flesh out his vague concerns about jimbob with one post about how he couldn't do setup spec. Discussion with LG about his opening vote.

This is the post that started the slip debate. Basically plytho sees zero townie possibilities of LG's actions at all, when as we have seen there are several.

post 39: discussion of jimbob's point on LG's preffered lynch order
post 40: expands post 39 to say this bit of reasoning is townie, disagrees with LG's interpretation of post 38
post 41: reads me as scummy for doomsealing somi, LG looking worse

Also, having a "bottom 4" in a game with only 6 other players than yourself seems excessive

post 42: tries to reason out why I voted somi
post 43: emphasises Sabrar's response to LG's slip comment, ironic echo of post 36, always expects a scummy answer
post 44: still with the theory LG's vote was a night decision, discussion of the votals at the time of the tie
post 45: responses to Sabrar, disputes his "I'm always the NK" theory, wine on the whole LG killing Sabrar issue
post 46: wants me to explain why I doomsealed somi
post 47: follow up to post 45, LG revoked any lack of attention
post 48: calls LG's possibilities for his opening vote ridiculous

Disagree strongly with this conclusion. LG provided a perfectly reasonable set of possibilities

post 49: fluff
post 50: unhappy with LG and his response to being voted
post 51: says he is not reading LG as scum even though he keeps bringing up the origin of his scummy read

I had to reread this post 4 times before I could get something coherent, and even now it looks horribly convoluted

post 52: plans for rereads
post 53: totally accepting of mpolo's claim, me and jimbob now scummiest
post 54: reiterates his request to me from post 46
post 55: question to someone about scum teams
post 56: fluff
post 57: revised setup spec wrt mpolo's claim
post 58: fluff
post 59: stronger impression of town!Sabrar and town!mpolo
post 60: read on me getting worse, Madge and LG still lynchable
post 61: trying to figure the issue with me, jimbob, and LG
post 62: votes jimbob, more scummy read of me

At this point plytho thinks he's solved the game and isn't going anywhere else

post 63: answers Sabrar about why he's decided on me-jimbob, LG mislynch looked like a slippery slope


plytho has been tunneling jimbob all game based on vague intuition. His D2 original sin is thinking LG's gambit was based on night planning and making him #2 scum because of it (jimbob forever being #1 in his heart). Despite what he says in his last post, when the LG mislynch started gaining traction, he felt he'd be implicated and abandoned wagon (although not with out the possibility of return according to post 60). Even with an OMGUS penalty of +0.5, I still have him at a -2.
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Tigerlion wrote:Well, I imagine as the game progresses, various people will be getting moody.


BoomFrog wrote:I still have no idea what town moody really looks like.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:46 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:I think you may be a little annoyed about Sabrar's vote as it's too late for you to scumread me now and join that wagon.
Please explain this to me in more detail. Why would scum!jimbob be annoyed by my vote on you? If his partner is moody he should welcome it instead.

Because by posting his read before your vote he doesn't have the opportunity to vote me himself. It's not the vote itself, it's the timing.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:I don't have time to link to posts but my LaserGuy town read was triggered by how easy it was to lynch him. I didn't feel entirely comfortable with that. I felt like I could have voted LaserGuy early in the day and seal his fate.
Scum!LaserGuy only has one buddy. Madge was AWOL for much of the day, so would hardly have kicked up a fuss, and moody was actively reading him as town: it's not like there was universal agreement, so this argument doesn't make sense.
Do you think my vote wouldn't have sealed his fate?
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby wam » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:51 pm UTC

@laser

deadline is 27 hours

New countdown

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/g ... nt=cursive
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:58 pm UTC



Votals
Laserguy - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle
Plytho - 1 - sabrar
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - laserguy, plytho

With 7 players it takes 4 to hammer.

Deadline is Thursday 9 pm utc


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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:04 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Do you think my vote wouldn't have sealed his fate?
I don't think it would have made much difference. You seemed pretty anti-LaserGuy, from what I remember and that felt basically the same as a vote. Only difference might have been scum!LaserGuy might have self-hammered. Early wagons don't always stay the course, regardless of the number of votes picked up, and your vote wouldn't have changed that. Why did you feel it was too easy to lynch LaserGuy?

@Sabrar, is your confidence based on PoE or something else? If PoE, who is the common buddy and why aren't you voting them instead?
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:09 pm UTC

Moody sheeping Sabrar here was visible from a mile away (what I read as Sabrar's purpose in voting me).

moody7277 wrote:At this point plytho thinks he's solved the game and isn't going anywhere else
This is very true, thanks for confirming :D
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:11 pm UTC

EBWOP: the common buddy is Madge presumably based on this:
Sabrar wrote:{jimbob, Madge, plytho}


Also just realised I missed this post. Will respond later when I have more time.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:26 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Because by posting his read before your vote he doesn't have the opportunity to vote me himself.
But why does he need the opportunity? The lynch is still far from decided and he said that he would vote defensively anyway if needed.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:27 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Sabrar, is your confidence based on PoE or something else? If PoE, who is the common buddy and why aren't you voting them instead?
Something else, mostly hunch. One of you is sheeping me. And it could be both.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:28 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:Do you think my vote wouldn't have sealed his fate?
I don't think it would have made much difference. You seemed pretty anti-LaserGuy, from what I remember and that felt basically the same as a vote. Only difference might have been scum!LaserGuy might have self-hammered. Early wagons don't always stay the course, regardless of the number of votes picked up, and your vote wouldn't have changed that.
This is you saying it does make a difference:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:You're right that it's not guaranteed that LaserGuy will be lynched, but I think it's highly likely. I've already decided where my vote is going to be at end of day, barring anything dramatic. You similarly seem locked onto LaserGuy, and plytho looks to be leaning that way too. That means that only one more person needs to jump that way for him to definitely be lynched.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Why did you feel it was too easy to lynch LaserGuy?
I feel like I could pretty much decide to lynch LaserGuy by myself at that point with a quick and easy vote. That would have had three talkative players vs 1 + three more listening types. Do you believe LaserGuy could have rallied mpolo Madge and moody to vote one of us?
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:30 pm UTC

@jimbob: in your opinion what mistake(s) did you make this game, if any? Bad read, unclear explanation of your point, whatever. Don't need an essay, just bullet points with a sentence explaining each.
@plytho: same question.

@Madge: who is your buddy and why did you let him convince you to kill bessie?

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:37 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Because by posting his read before your vote he doesn't have the opportunity to vote me himself.
But why does he need the opportunity? The lynch is still far from decided and he said that he would vote defensively anyway if needed.
I don't think he needs it, I do think he would have liked it. If he had written a scummy read on me I'd be a much easier lynch than I am now. (I think he'd prefer to lynch me rather than someone thinking he's town)
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:50 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:@plytho: same question.

Tbh, I legit think I'm nailing this game. Like I actually think I'll only vote scum this game.

(One I can think of is the explanation of why I found jimbob scummy early on. When you reworded it I thought "yes that's exactly what I mean" but on follow up it turned out it wasn't exactly. I don't think I got my that across well. )
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby mpolo » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:05 pm UTC

@Sabrar: yes, I realize that I have to try to block scum (I used on you because I thought it went both ways then — either you were town likely to be night-killed, or you were scum who had us totally bamboozled, so either way I was happy to use on you.)

I am flip-flopping a lot. I was almost to the point of seeing Sabrar-LaserGuy as a town on town interaction, and that feeling has only increased. Which means that I should be looking at plytho, Madge, moody and jimbob. Unfortunately, Thursdays are my most packed days for classes. (6 hours of classes) I can't put enough time into this at the moment. Tomorrow should be better.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:31 pm UTC

I should be in bed instead of answering these...
Sabrar wrote:How strong is your case on moody if LaserGuy flips town?
Not as strong, I guess. I'm probably being overly confident in my scum read on LaserGuy, and it's affecting my other reads. Some of the points still stand though (e.g. the plytho read swing). I'd reduce him to maybe scum independent of anything else, but he'd still be a very strong scum pick, purely because of PoE (I'm pretty sure you aren't scum, and I don't think plytho is either, despite his misplaced confidence he's nailed the scum team).

Sabrar wrote:
Finally, his plytho suspicions have come out of nowhere, especially given that plytho was his joint-towniest read D1.
Why is this that much of an issue? You had moody as second most townie D1 and now he's in your suggested scum-team. Opinions change.
Opinions do change, but there's usually some hint of progression, which there wasn't from moody. My end of Day 1 list was incredibly unconfident with my bessie and moody reads, as I'd not looked back over their content at all, and my memory is poor at the best of times. I was not particularly comfortable even with his third place early D2. Moody's reads on plytho went from +4 without error bars, indicating a high degree of confidence, to scum with nothing to indicate why in between.
Sabrar wrote:@jimbob: in your opinion what mistake(s) did you make this game, if any? Bad read, unclear explanation of your point, whatever. Don't need an essay, just bullet points with a sentence explaining each.
Playing at all was my first mistake, given my time limitations meaning I can't put as much time into developing my reads as I like. If I survive that far, I have no idea how I'm going to manage D4...

That aside, it's hard to evaluate mistakes without having people's flips, but assuming for a moment my current reads are accurate, my D1 tunnel on plytho is one, and my leaving of moody (and bessie) until overnight as a read was another, although this latter point was really due to time pressures so calling it a mistake is a bit harsh. If I'd not tunnelled as much, maybe I would have gotten better reads on other players earlier. I could talk about phrasing I used that people claimed was scummy, but if those players are scum it doesn't matter, because they'd have just picked up on something (or someone) else to attack. There may be other points, but like I said, my memory is terrible, and I need to sleep.

My morning bus ride might be my last significant chance for a post before deadline, barring a quick drive by to update my vote if needed. Since nobody else seems interested in voting LaserGuy currently (I still don't really understand why not...), I'll switch it to moody in the morning, barring significant changes in the state of play.
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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:32 pm UTC

wam wrote:

Votals
Laserguy - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle
Plytho - 1 - sabrar
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - laserguy, plytho

With 7 players it takes 4 to hammer.

Deadline is Thursday 9 pm utcFriday 9pm utc


Fixed?
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:42 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge - why did you end up being AWOL for several days? I also don't understand your LaserGuy opinion re. his case against plytho. You seemed to like it, but then put his as most likely scum. Please explain.
The second part was not answered and jimbob didn't push it like he did with LaserGuy.
I would like to see Madge answer and jimbob explain why he treated Madge differently.

I'm voting between plytho and jimbob today. plytho's overconfidence in his reads feels fake to me (pot, kettle, whatever).

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Re: Wams belated simple game

Postby wam » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:59 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
wam wrote:

Votals
Laserguy - 1 - Jimbobmacdoodle
Plytho - 1 - sabrar
Jimbobmacdoodle - 2 - laserguy, plytho

With 7 players it takes 4 to hammer.

Deadline is Thursday 9 pm utcFriday 9pm utc


Fixed?


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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:37 am UTC

@plytho: don't you feel that misreading mpolo was a mistake? I also found him scummy but for other reasons, to me your case didn't seem that strong.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:06 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@plytho: don't you feel that misreading mpolo was a mistake? I also found him scummy but for other reasons, to me your case didn't seem that strong.
Not really. I was wrong, but it doesn't feel like a mistake. (I don't think I could have done much better.) I don't remember when my scum read peaked but I think he was in my 4-person scummy pool by the time he claimed and that was a good fit.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:09 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Madge - why did you end up being AWOL for several days? I also don't understand your LaserGuy opinion re. his case against plytho. You seemed to like it, but then put his as most likely scum. Please explain.
The second part was not answered and jimbob didn't push it like he did with LaserGuy.
I would like to see Madge answer and jimbob explain why he treated Madge differently.
I did chase a response though after Madge only answered that first part:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Madge, you didn't answer the second half of this (i.e. the mismatch on your earlier LaserGuy read).
I'm not sure what else you expected. Madge hasn't posted again since. It's not vote worthy alone. My strong annoyance with LaserGuy D2 was because he did the same thing D1. I'm a little annoyed with Madge, but I'm giving a chance for her to respond to the follow up.

Moody, mpolo, Madge: you need to make your opinion known today with a vote. I'll support a moody or LaserGuy lynch. I might be persuaded by a Madge lynch, but it would be hard work. I'll only vote plytho out of self defence.

As promised, in the hope to find some sort of consensus that isn't me or a strong town read (although the way plytho is going it's going to be hard not to OMGUS):

Vote moody

Other responses to yesterday's content:
plytho wrote:Tbh, I legit think I'm nailing this game. Like I actually think I'll only vote scum this game.
:roll: *cough* tunnel *cough*
plytho wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
plytho wrote:Because by posting his read before your vote he doesn't have the opportunity to vote me himself.
But why does he need the opportunity? The lynch is still far from decided and he said that he would vote defensively anyway if needed.
I don't think he needs it, I do think he would have liked it. If he had written a scummy read on me I'd be a much easier lynch than I am now. (I think he'd prefer to lynch me rather than someone thinking he's town)
This reasoning is completely fabricated. There is literally no evidence for this. It is also giving a motivation assuming I am scum first, rather than using evidence to build towards that as a case, so doesn't actually give any useful content.
plytho wrote:This is you saying it does make a difference:
Those two statements aren't really linked in the way you're saying they are. In fact, if anything they're the opposite of what you're claiming. In my original point, I said that I was pretty confident that LaserGuy would be lynched (turns out I was wrong, but it's how I felt at the time), and it looked like you were leaning that way. In the more recent post I said that I didn't think your vote would have made a difference given that you already appeared to be suspicious of LaserGuy. Votes can be moved, barring a hammer/day end, so earlier in the day, they are only an expression of current opinion. How are my two statements disagreeing with each other?
plytho wrote:I feel like I could pretty much decide to lynch LaserGuy by myself at that point with a quick and easy vote. That would have had three talkative players vs 1 + three more listening types. Do you believe LaserGuy could have rallied mpolo Madge and moody to vote one of us?
He might not have needed to. He only needed to persuade one or two of us to change their mind, or something like mpolo's claim cause people to re-evaluate.
Sabrar wrote:Something else, mostly hunch. One of you is sheeping me. And it could be both.
How are we sheeping you? Are you referring to our opinions on LaserGuy? I stand by my earlier concerns with him, despite you backing down, and I don't agree with your plytho read (despite it being in my best interests). I can't really speak for plytho though.

Got as far back as moody's belated plytho read. I don't have any particular issues with it, except that cynical view style means he's not highlighting the townier content really.

Just arrived at work. As said last night, I don't know what time I'll have between now and deadline. It may be near zero.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby Sabrar » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:08 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I did chase a response though after Madge only answered that first part:
True, I missed that, my bad.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:How are we sheeping you?
Let me see if I can phrase this clearly. Sheeping can only be verified after the game when we know the flips. It's not something that is evident from the content alone.
Say Player A finds Player B extremely townie and agrees with their read or question or interpretation. Assume Player B is town.
If Player A is town as well then this is good sense, finding out who your town-buddies are because you feel you think the same way about the game.
If Player B is scum then this suddenly becomes sheeping.
However it is basically impossible to distinguish between the two during the actual game (though I believe it's possible to get sheep-pings). So when I say that one of you is sheeping me it means that I already think that you're scum and that is why some of what you're doing is sheeping. It doesn't mean that I can point to a specific content and explain why that is sheeping.

With all that said I think your reaction here is a bit over the top and defensive.

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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby plytho » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:14 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:This reasoning is completely fabricated. There is literally no evidence for this. It is also giving a motivation assuming I am scum first, rather than using evidence to build towards that as a case, so doesn't actually give any useful content.
I agree. That line about you being annoyed isn't a case on you. I was just being giddy about my read on you. Your sudden town read of me was suspicious, though.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:How are my two statements disagreeing with each other?
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Votes can be moved, barring a hammer/day end, so earlier in the day, they are only an expression of current opinion.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I've already decided where my vote is going to be at end of day, barring anything dramatic. You similarly seem locked onto LaserGuy, and plytho looks to be leaning that way too. That means that only one more person needs to jump that way for him to definitely be lynched.
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Re: Wams belated simple game - day 2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:21 am UTC

Code is compiling...
Sabrar wrote:With all that said I think your reaction here is a bit over the top and defensive.
Of course I'm being a bit defensive. I'm in danger of being mislynched... My reaction was mostly because I thought you were building a case based on the sheeping comment, which I felt was flawed. That being said, your reasoning makes much more sense now.

Ninja'ed by plytho. My own vote wasn't likely to move at the time (though note the "barring anything dramatic" comment). I never know what other people are going to do. What you're seeing is a difference in confidence levels due to how the Day has progressed and how I was reading the reads of the two of you before.
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