Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 6 - Ultimate Mammal Sash Genius

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:50 am UTC

Zenii wrote:I don't think what I linked could have given you an impression. I think you just said what wanted to be heard.

Vote: somitomi

@boom claiming would still be helpful so we can better piece the game together after your lynch
@bessie we really need to discuss your no claim philosophy

I don't like this vote so near to day end. Especially with such little premise.
BoomFrog wrote:Mark_Cangila - Very follow the crowd vote, not really trying to figure things out on his own, just rewording other people's reasoning - slightly scummy

Mark_Cangila - Still weakly justified vote, but even worse that it was defending scum - scummy.

This is ridiculous. The first point seems recycled from other games, and is clearly wrong when you realize I was the first vote on Boom. The second point misunderstands my position. I am not defending plytho, merely stating boom is more concerning.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Zenii » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:15 am UTC

Alright I'm done thinking about this game for now. plytho is so scummy I can't take another day of it.
His tone is the same as Fridge. Everytime I read his posts, that scummy baboon avatar pops up in my head.

Vote: plytho

Final Reads

Town:
bessie is obv town. You can literally see the gears turning in her head whenever she makes a post. 100
Laser's thought processes are similar to mine. The only issue I have is his back and forth with plytho on the context of Vic's pregame questions. plytho was definitely correct on that. I don't think he's scum though. 85
Mark's reasoning for voting Boom felt good to me. 55
Vic has pinged me throughout the game, but his explanations always turn out good. I like his Boom analysis (though I disagree with it). His latest few posts are fire. I'm content to go with the crowd on this one. 55


Reconsidering:
Boom. He's way too concerned about his image in this post. I concede the point about picking up on the sarcasm. But it doesn't make sense that he singled out plytho for being a jerk when 4 other people had voiced making a deal with indy. I think the point jim made about the parentheses holds as well. I feel like Boom trapped himself in his own reasoning and had to include the parentheses bit to make it look like he was alignment ignorant. The lines afterward aren't congruent with it as why would indy take it personal that scum tricked them. I also dislike how he keeps trying to strawman my case by turning it into Boom + plytho are scummates. That was only one interpretation that resulted from my mine point, but he keeps using it in his case against jimbob. jimbob didn't agree with that interpretation, but he agreed with the main point described above. His reactions here and here seem townie (other than the misrepresentation of my case). This post is also nice. I've reread his posts from the perspective that he's town and I can definitely see it. I'm not sure though.

Jim's play is more narrow than usual. I feel like he usually has more thoughts on each player at this point, but his focus has been on moody and Boom. I feel like his page 1 thoughts on moody should've expired at this point. It's also strange to me that he frequently inquires about my style related discrepancies despite town reading me. It also seemed like he was doing this to Vic early on. I don't understand why he's town reading Vic in that post despite being pinged by Vic's lack of reaction. I'm not seeing where his town plytho read is coming from. Also, @jim why did you ask me about my somi read?

Scum:
mpolo I feel like his comment to wam here served no purpose. I feel he was trying to give the impression that he didn't know somi had replaced wam. His mixup with Vic/somi here also seems forced. Possible buddies. 10
somi. I agree with the points bessie made about wam. I also think wam was playing to his scum meta. I don't think townSomi could have have really gained an impression on plytho just from Laser's summary that I linked. The addition of the rushing things helps scum line felt like scum playing the good townie. 65
plytho 80

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:11 am UTC

Zenii wrote:
plytho wrote:I have.

Vicarin is a candidate.

Moody/bessie is a candidate.

What about wamitomi.

I obviously prefer Vicarin, but somi is my second choice. Not for any overt scumminess that I've noticed but for lurkiness.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:18 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Ordered list update:

Town
Vicarin
Zen
BoomFrog
LaserGuy
bessie
jimbobmacdoodle
mpolo
somitomi
Mark
plytho
Scum


Yeah that is a terrible list. You have nothing. You have literally no scum reads.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:26 am UTC

Zenii wrote:
So a "sweet, townies can't win through a pyrrhic victory" sentiment seems more apt coming from scum than from town.

@all: your comments on this reasoning please.
I missed this. It's a pretty silly point. Why would Vic express satisfaction for it in thread if he thought it was pro-scum.
He is happy about not having to care who has the sash. He slips by misreading the town-scum parallel and acts like town should be as happy about it. The clue is in 'caring who has the sash'.

Do you agree it's more apt for scum than for town?


Not understanding how Laser isn't getting how these are different:

A. Vic asks question before role - vic gets role - vic follows up on question
B. Vic gets role - vic asks question
Right? Like, five people have pointed this out in many ways and still nothing.

Laserguy keeps hammering on these points
-he had an initial Vic read based on that one post
-he's reading Vic as town regardless of that

And can't seem to see that what we're saying has no bearing on either of these.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:27 am UTC

Aloha sorry I didn’t have an opportunity to post before my flight. I didn’t have internet access but I downloaded the thread so I was able to make some notes through about half of page 9. I’m just going to post what I have.

Start Page 4
mpolo wrote:@wam: Does the flavor include any "natural groupings" that would be likely to be masons/scum together? Or are we likely to have a situation with several 1-person scumteams (multi-SK)? I am assuming that if everyone is a cop, there are no "obvious" scummy characters. This is probably a hard question to answer.
Note trying to look for flavor clues to setup, why? IIRC flavor is flavor only with no clues to setup and role names are NAI. Would be suspicious but mpolo does tend to look for relation between flavor and setup.

plytho wrote: Why do we need to help any particular person to hold onto the sash? Also what particular logic are you talking about? I haven't put any emphasis on fulfilling my personal sash wincon.
What does plytho mean by his personal sash wincon? Do you have a different sash-related wincon than the rest of us?

plytho wrote:Why do you think sash holder can't be watched/doctored? I consider immunity to protect against bad stuff. Also, if the sash holder is immune to watcher I expect that to mean he won't be seen when he's visiting a watched player, not that a watcher won't see people visiting the sash holder.
Why would you assume this?

LaserGuy wrote:Except then the killer is stuck with the sash and if they are targeted by anyone, then they're immediately outed.
The killer automaticly takes the sash? Why do you think the sash is transferred this way?

plytho wrote:Yeah, but that's a follow up to his earlier question from before the PM's. Are you saying Vicarin is unable to keep that townie perspective the minute he reads his scum-pm? Also, why did you ignore it when I pointed this out?
I had the same thought. I see the second following from the first easily even if Vicarin received a scum pm.

Note plytho and LaserGuy continue this on P5 and I agree with plytho.

More to follow.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:42 am UTC

Page 6

plytho wrote:
Zenii wrote:The fact that plytho agreed with your interpretation and apologized (lol) indicates that the interaction between you is fake and that the two of you are scum partners.
Actually that's because I'm sensitive to insults.
The whole exchange between plytho and BoomFrog is interesting, because I have observed this to be true, plytho is sensitive to insults. BoomFrog called plytho a jerk. plytho’s reaction to it seems unusually tame, from what I would have expected. Compare to this:
plytho wrote:
bessie wrote:plytho – Is busy. Labels Sabrar town over the mod question thing. 100% of plytho's content so far this game has been related to this, and he wants to further discuss it with me (see here). I think plytho would be in a better position to demand content from others if he provided some himself.
Hoo, boy, I'm not liking this. Wow.

So, yes I'm busy. I wasn't caught up and there ws only one thing I was aware enough to talk about and that was "Sabrar and the mod question". You asked me about that and I answered. Then you pretended like I ignored part of your question. I call you out on that and you ignore it. Then after I prod you on that you dismiss it in your reads post, selling it as me trying to keep talking about Sabrar, while it's actually you I have an issue with.

That last line though :shock:
Refusing to answer because I don't have enough content is absolutely ridiculous. For one, I'm not demanding you produce more content, I'm asking you to respond to my point. That's a false equivalence. Also, does this mean you won't answer questions from Mark, Somi or superjedi because they don't have enough content?

vote: bessie
Interesting that BoomFrog got an apology for an insult, and I got a vote for just being overly aggressive.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:44 am UTC

bessie wrote:
plytho wrote: Why do we need to help any particular person to hold onto the sash? Also what particular logic are you talking about? I haven't put any emphasis on fulfilling my personal sash wincon.
What does plytho mean by his personal sash wincon? Do you have a different sash-related wincon than the rest of us?
:?
Here's what you snipped that from. Why did you snip it?
plytho wrote:
Vicarin wrote:Your logic for the wincons is terrible. Putting any emphasis on fulfilling your personal Sash wincon as town is a horrible idea, because you'll end up with a prisoner's dilemma situation where people are defecting. Except not really, because the everyone defects situation makes scum much, much more likely to win, without helping any particular person hold onto the Sash.
Why do we need to help any particular person to hold onto the sash? Also what particular logic are you talking about? I haven't put any emphasis on fulfilling my personal sash wincon.

plytho wrote:Why do you think sash holder can't be watched/doctored? I consider immunity to protect against bad stuff. Also, if the sash holder is immune to watcher I expect that to mean he won't be seen when he's visiting a watched player, not that a watcher won't see people visiting the sash holder.
Why would you assume this?
That's not an assumption, that's my interpretation of what immunity means. I'm not confident I got it right, that's why I was surprised when BoomFrog was quick to accept it.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:54 am UTC

plytho wrote:Right? Like, five people have pointed this out in many ways and still nothing.

Laserguy keeps hammering on these points
-he had an initial Vic read based on that one post
-he's reading Vic as town regardless of that

And can't seem to see that what we're saying has no bearing on either of these.


I'm not hammering on these points at all. I stopped worrying about this four pages ago. You are the one who keeps bringing it up. I made my read, I explained my reasoning, I have long since moved on. If you think it's scummy, then vote for me. Why is it so concerning that I'm townreading Vicarin?

bessie wrote:The killer automaticly takes the sash? Why do you think the sash is transferred this way?


The sash always must remain with a living player. I don't really see any alternative that makes sense. plytho claims he has a kill though, so you could always ask him, I suppose.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:56 am UTC

bessie wrote:Interesting that BoomFrog got an apology for an insult, and I got a vote for just being overly aggressive.
Do you really think these two situations are remotely the same?

BoomFrog personally insulted me.
You were aggressive in-game, magnifying my scum ping on you. That's why I voted.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:03 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Why is it so concerning that I'm townreading Vicarin?
Aaarrgh it is not!

All I want you to say is "I still read Vicarin as town, despite the fact that the contextual information pointed out by Zen, plytho, bessie, BoomFrog et. al implies that the post I got my initial ping off wasn't as townie as I thought."

This hasn't been about reading you for a while now. It's just baffling that you refuse to acknowledge this point even exists. If you can explain why I'd be so happy but right now I'd be content if you just copy-paste that line I wrote for you.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:04 am UTC

plytho wrote:Here's what you snipped that from. Why did you snip it?
Sorry for the snip. I’ve been up since 6am Hawaii time, its midnight California time, and I’m tired so I’m just transcribing the notes I made on my ipad between being sick on the plane to my computer so I can post them tonight because deadline is tomorrow and I’m supposed to work. I wrote it as snips in my notes because I had to type it out. Is this a personal (as in private) wincon to end the game with the sash and not an actual wincon? That is what I want to clarify.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:10 am UTC

bessie wrote:Is this a personal (as in private) wincon to end the game with the sash and not an actual wincon? That is what I want to clarify.


To clarify: there are two wincons this game. Win with your faction and personally win with the sash. They are both full wincons (the rule for playing to your wincon applies to both).
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:28 am UTC

Zenii wrote:plytho isn't actually scum hunting, he's just reacting and regurgitating. It's so fake. Like that interaction count thing served no purpose other than to show that he is doing analysis. I don't trust him one bit and I don't trust he'll make a shot beneficial to us.
Right, the count sucked. What about my other points?

Also, Vicarin is sheeping you like crazy.

You know you can ask me to target someone in particular, right?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:30 am UTC

Also, I'm so deep on Vic I'm convinced my points stand regardless of BoomFrog's alignment. They're consistent with Vic knowing BoomFrog is town.

Please let me Vig Vic.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:33 am UTC

I'm not sure how promising to kill me is a selling point for letting you live. For anyone.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby bessie » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:43 am UTC

Page 7
bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
bessie wrote:please point out anything in particular you would like me to respond to.
Which of the two main theories do you find most likely. I correctly read plytho's intent when calling him a jerk, or he and I are scum buddies and put on a little fake back and forth?

Also, what do you think of my read of JimBob's read of moody's read of Mark's question and retraction? :D

The first question I will need to read the thread to answer. The second please link to the post.
1. Combination of the two. I think it likely there is at least one non-town between the two of you. You are difficult to evaluate. I like Zen’s evaluation of plytho earlier in this page:
Zenii wrote:mafiaBoom presumed to read plytho's mind. townPlytho would correct mafiaBoom. indyPlytho was afraid to step on toes so mafiaBoom got away with it.

2. Using your post of quotes here to answer this. If I have time later I will read through the thread to check for accuracy. I believe your evaluation of moody to be accurate. He is a somewhat safe player and weakly commits to reads on D2. they are usually in the “slightly leaning” categories. Note that he lynched me in Texas not because he was scum reading me. He wasn’t. It was because he couldn’t tell my scum game from my town game so it was safe for him and he didn’t have to commit to a read. I do not understand what you want me to comment on in your last quote. Is it your jimbob read or your response to plytho?


Page 8
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@Zenii, why is somitomi so far down your list?
Interesting, why didn’t jimbob ask about me me me? jimbob has moossie as solid scum and Zen has me as 100% town. Note, jimbob did come back to me a few posts down the page.

BoomFrog wrote:And yes, I keep a running assessment of every players assessment of me. My main scum hunting strategy D1 is to do vaguely scummy things and see who goes for it in an unnatural way. It's suicidal but it's exciting and a challenging way to play. This has been almost as fun as barking was.
I don’t think this is entirely true. You try to set up unusual but not necessarily scummy situations. Insert quotes.

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4188000#p4188000
BoomFrog wrote: So anyway, I think I've used up my townie credit, I've gotten the reactions that I can and it's time to pull back the curtain. First, a quick intro for the newer players: Playing scum is hardest when you have to react to an unusual situation. When everything is "run of the mill" you can act like you did last game when you were actually town. Therefore the best strategy town has is to have something usual happen which will catch scum off guard. The return of a veteran player who declares himself unreadable and recommends his own lynch was intended to be that kind of unusual thing.

http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?p=4291305#p4291305
BoomFrog wrote: One of my mafia strategies is to bring about unusual situations so that scum will not be able to react in a routine manner since there is no routine. The result is that town reacts naturally and scum wait to react until they see town react and then try to copy a townie reaction. It's also fun.

Page 9
Zenii wrote: @bessie we really need to discuss your no claim philosophy
So are we still at me, Mark, and plytho unclaimed, and everyone else claiming “no sash”? Don’t you think a pool of 3 possible sash holders is good enough for now? Ok, I’ll claim if you think I should claim.

This is where my notes end. I’ll read through the new content but honestly my head is dropping.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:49 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:I'm not sure how promising to kill me is a selling point for letting you live. For anyone.

I'm not trying to buy my life, I'm trying to buy your death.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:01 am UTC

plytho wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:Why is it so concerning that I'm townreading Vicarin?
Aaarrgh it is not!

All I want you to say is "I still read Vicarin as town, despite the fact that the contextual information pointed out by Zen, plytho, bessie, BoomFrog et. al implies that the post I got my initial ping off wasn't as townie as I thought."

This hasn't been about reading you for a while now. It's just baffling that you refuse to acknowledge this point even exists. If you can explain why I'd be so happy but right now I'd be content if you just copy-paste that line I wrote for you.


If it isn't about reading me and it isn't about reading Vicarin, then why are you continuing to spend time on it? Why does it matter beyond making yourself look busy?

plytho wrote:Also, I'm so deep on Vic I'm convinced my points stand regardless of BoomFrog's alignment. They're consistent with Vic knowing BoomFrog is town.

Please let me Vig Vic.


:|
I'm not sure why you think we would allow this. Vic is widely Townread. If you survive the day and are Town, you should probably be looking at shooting somitomi or mpolo. By the way, do you get the sash if you kill the person holding it?

Your sincerity is annoyingly convincing. I'm not sure I like either of these wagons right now.

Vote: somitomi

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:13 am UTC

Vicarin wrote:Overall, he's been doing plenty of questioning, but as the day has been going on, he's been tunneling significantly more on BoomFrog to the exclusion of other people.
Yeah, I'm conscious that I might have been tunnelling. Lack of time hasn't allowed for a proper reset and reconsider of BoomFrog and other players. It's why I asked people to review my BoomFrog knows alignments analysis in more depth.

BoomFrog wrote:Plytho being at L-1 but not self hammer is (maybe barely) evidence that plytho is not scum if it had been true.
In a close race, I don't think scum are likely to self-hammer, so I don't think it's any evidence of towniness at all.

I've been thinking about plytho's claim some more and the sash cop doesn't add up to me, unless he's omitting part of his role. From what I remember from the heist ability, players get the sash by targeting the holder. Presumably if multiple people target the holder, one of those players gets the sash. Basically, plytho's ability therefore is a commiseration bonus if he fails to get the sash to say somebody else got it, or to indicate if he got roleblocked. Neither of those seem especially useful to me. Not sure about it though.

I'm at the office and haven't got to all of the responses I want to give. They'll have to wait until later.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:14 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:If it isn't about reading me and it isn't about reading Vicarin, then why are you continuing to spend time on it? Why does it matter beyond making yourself look busy?
Please stop doing this it's driving me crazy. Just copy-paste the line.

LaserGuy wrote:I'm not sure why you think we would allow this. Vic is widely Townread. If you survive the day and are Town, you should probably be looking at shooting somitomi or mpolo. By the way, do you get the sash if you kill the person holding it?
I don't think you would allow this. I just really really want to. I want to because I'm scumreading Vic and I want to because I'm dreading going into D2 with Vic because I won't be able to clear my head of him otherwise.

I don't think the kill gets priority over other targeting abilities.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:26 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I've been thinking about plytho's claim some more and the sash cop doesn't add up to me, unless he's omitting part of his role. From what I remember from the heist ability, players get the sash by targeting the holder. Presumably if multiple people target the holder, one of those players gets the sash. Basically, plytho's ability therefore is a commiseration bonus if he fails to get the sash to say somebody else got it, or to indicate if he got roleblocked. Neither of those seem especially useful to me. Not sure about it though.
I'm not sure how useful you expect my secondary ability to be. It helps me track where the sash might be based on historic data, but also where it has or hasn't been. If I cop you N3 I'd know if you had the sash N1, N3, N3 or never. It's could be quite useful once we get to full claims.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby mpolo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:34 am UTC

Aren't things supposed to get clearer as day goes on?

I am less confident of my gut reading on Boomfrog after the last couple of posts. My "opportunistic" comment was also mostly gut feeling. Seeing now that the vote didn't come out of nowhere, I have to retract this. My "then I will" was supposed to be the beginning of the sentence ending with my vote, not a statement in itself.

Boomfrog's claim seems reasonable. A bit more than a tracker, but delayed. Someone made the assumption that it would go through despite a night kill. While I'm not sure how much flavor logic is present, if this is supposed to be a police dog following up on what happened the night before and barking loudly, it might be too much to assume that it will go through.

Doing this on mobile is making it harder than usual to keep track of who is saying what. Which is my only explanation for confusion on names and who has replaced, etc.

Unvote

I like Bessie's posts on plytho generally. She did leave out the quote that he was responding to, which made plytho look worse than he should have for his wording, but that could easily be simply concentrating on plytho on isolation.

On the other hand, having a normal power plus a one-shot doesn't seem like such a stretch. A specific sash power is possibly unusual, but we don't really know enough to judge that.

Is deadline today or tomorrow?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:37 am UTC

mpolo wrote:Is deadline today or tomorrow?
in 15 hours
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:40 am UTC

mpolo wrote:I like Bessie's posts on plytho generally. She did leave out the quote that he was responding to, which made plytho look worse than he should have for his wording, but that could easily be simply concentrating on plytho on isolation.
Yeah, I was about to FoS her for that but her follow up showed that she was actually confused about the sash wincon.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:45 am UTC

Or, maybe not?
bessie wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@bessie: Hey bessie! Got the Sash? I know you love claiming stuff on D1 and all :P

I'm going to be playing by memory not notes. My understanding of the sash is that it is a second full win to whomever has it at endgame, so the sash holder can't win separately from their faction. I don't see any reason for the sash holder to claim today, it doesn't protect from the kill but may or May not make the sash holder unable to be watched. So I vote for not claiming.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:49 am UTC

So yeah, FoS: bessie

Please explain why you snipped or what you were confused about.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am UTC

Btw, everyone should claim who they targeted at the start every day.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:11 am UTC

plytho wrote:Btw, everyone should claim who they targeted at the start every day.

FoS plytho

That's a terrible idea as a blanket rule. It immediately tells scum who they should worry about because they are targeting them.

Also, it tells scum about people who might have withheld actions etc, which presumably means they have powerful limited shot actions instead or whatever. Or, for example, who might have access to multiple actions that can be used at once (I'm not saying there are any, but they've existed in the past).

Re. your claim. Fair enough, I misremembered what you said. So your normal ability is not "they currently have the sash" it's "they have or have had the sash at some point in the game", right?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:18 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Re. your claim. Fair enough, I misremembered what you said. So your normal ability is not "they currently have the sash" it's "they have or have had the sash at some point in the game", right?
Yeah, specifically at what point in the game.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:That's a terrible idea as a blanket rule. It immediately tells scum who they should worry about because they are targeting them.

Also, it tells scum about people who might have withheld actions etc, which presumably means they have powerful limited shot actions instead or whatever. Or, for example, who might have access to multiple actions that can be used at once (I'm not saying there are any, but they've existed in the past).
Given my own powers and expectance of balance in this I don't think anyone has limited shot actions or multi-use actions. You do have a point about scum knowing who's on to them. On the other hand, that becomes wine very quickly.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:23 am UTC

plytho wrote:Given my own powers and expectance of balance in this I don't think anyone has limited shot actions or multi-use actions. You do have a point about scum knowing who's on to them. On the other hand, that becomes wine very quickly.
Slip? Remind me how many times you can use your vig?
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:24 am UTC

Even more specifically at what point in the game they last had the sash.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:28 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:
plytho wrote:Given my own powers and expectance of balance in this I don't think anyone has limited shot actions or multi-use actions. You do have a point about scum knowing who's on to them. On the other hand, that becomes wine very quickly.
Slip? Remind me how many times you can use your vig?
Seriously? I can use my Vig once and my sash cop all other nights. The point is that I, with my limited action (Vig) can still target every night thanks to my sash-cop. I expect the same to be applied to other limited actions so they wouldn't be detectable by withholding.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:29 am UTC

Can we get updated votals and a clarification of who is ahead?

Unofficial:

plytho - (3) - Vicarin, BoomFrog, Zenii
BoomFrog - (3) - Mark_Cangila, jimbobmacdoodle, plytho,
Somitomi - (1) - LaserGuy
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Sabrar » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:42 am UTC

Votals

BoomFrog - (3) - Mark_Cangila, jimbobmacdoodle, plytho
plytho - (3) - Vicarin, BoomFrog, Zenii
somitomi - (1) - LaserGuy

Not voting: bessie, mpolo, somitomi

As things stand now BoomFrog would be executed.

Deadline in 13 hours

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Mark_Cangila » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:45 pm UTC

I don't have the sash. I'm not liking the copy and paste thing from plytho. It's not something town should be doing. However, it does make me feel marginally better about Plytho.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby mpolo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:49 pm UTC

I think it is clear that everyone has some way to get the sash, but it is not clear that that has to be by a targeted night action. Somebody might have a passive power, but be guaranteed to receive the sash if voting on the wagon that lynched the scarf holder. Just trying to think outside the box here.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby Vicarin » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:52 pm UTC

somitomi and Mark, at least post an ordered list before the day ends, I have no idea where you stand on most people. mpolo could probably do so too, but I've got a bit more of an idea from this last page.

Ok, so we've got definitive No-Sash claims from everyone but bessie and plytho. Really would like to finish off the claims round so that we can sort out whether someone is trying to actively hide the Sash from everyone.

@Mark: Why would that make you feel better about plytho?

The idea of claiming all the targets at the beginning of a day, while hilarious and likely to give bessie an aneurysm, is terrible. Way too much information for scum, and completely unnecessary for tracking the Sash if the wearer just, you know, claims it right now and we all agree to not target them.

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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:56 pm UTC

Thoughts on Boomfrog's claim:

Minor: Holt's dog is called Cheddar, not Chester not sure what to think about that.

Major: That's not a safe claim. Either BoomFrog is actually a loudener or he made up his own false claim.

Why would he make up his own false claim?
-his actual false claim is not easily verifiable.
-he needed a false claim that beat my Vig claim.

Evidence for that scenario:
BoomFrog has been trying too hard to get us to notice it's not a safe claim. He mentioned he was glad his power was verifiable twice. The second time noting that that was what's so great about that power. Nobody picked up on that so he continued by mentioning that Sabrar provides great safe claims.

I don't see what's so great about that verifiability. Why is that the best part of the power instead of the public tracker?

Making the loudener work for the next night action makes some sense in a town perspective because that public tracker is very powerful. On the other hand it allows BoomFrog to try and make it to D3 without being lynched for a lack of results. If his buddy makes it to that point it's endgame with 1 scum vs 3 town/indies.
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Re: Brooklyn 99 Mafia: Halloween Heist - Day 1 - A-Sashin's Creed

Postby plytho » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:04 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:The idea of claiming all the targets at the beginning of a day, while hilarious and likely to give bessie an aneurysm, is terrible. Way too much information for scum, and completely unnecessary for tracking the Sash if the wearer just, you know, claims it right now and we all agree to not target them.
Explain how the information gain is more useful for scum than for town? This is not about the sash. It's about forcing scum to claim their target every single day instead of all at once at full-claim. It's an improvement on the standard full-claim order because even if that order is wrong and scum claims near the end, they can't make up all their claims based on previous claims.
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