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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:23 pm UTC
by wam
LaserGuy wrote:I agree that one of the three isn't in the Town role PM. It is this part that was damning:

Mine however I'm getting the impression has extra information. So I have 3 factions mentioned hence my earlier setup speculation.


You know 3 others agreed at the time.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:33 pm UTC
by Maven89
wam wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I agree that one of the three isn't in the Town role PM. It is this part that was damning:

Mine however I'm getting the impression has extra information. So I have 3 factions mentioned hence my earlier setup speculation.


You know 3 others agreed at the time.


3 alien factions?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:38 pm UTC
by wam
See my later posts. Yes

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:39 pm UTC
by wam
Or more accurately 3 alien species which I am assuming translates to factions.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:39 pm UTC
by jimbobmacdoodle
Just checking in to say that I'm happy with a wam lynch now, but not voting because I have no idea what the votals are, plus I want responses from Liri, Mark, mpolo and freezeblade to the claims.

Will look back and answer questions later.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:44 pm UTC
by Maven89
Yeah I'm fine lynching Wam.

SDK, however, made me re-read my role PM and double check. It's possible he's just blowing smoke up our assess, but it's also possible we shouldn't kill him. I really, really want to know what happens if he finds another of his species

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:14 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Will LYLO/MYLO be announced?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:18 pm UTC
by heuristically_alone
Sabrar wrote:Will LYLO/MYLO be announced?

Yes

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:21 pm UTC
by heuristically_alone
OFFICIAL VOTALS


Sabrar - 1 (Mark_Cangila)
wam - 5 (SDK, Bessie, Sabrar, LaserGuy, plytho)
SDK - 2 (wam, mpolo)

Not Voting: jimbobmacdoodle, Vicarin, Maven89, FreezeBlade, Liri

Please correct me if I have your vote wrong.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch!

DEADLINE: 3 Days, 9 Hours 40 Minutes

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:51 pm UTC
by SDK
Vicarin wrote:@SDK: no other info to share?

No. What more do you want? :cry:

Maven89 wrote:What happens when you find each other?

Then I know they're Merca-whatever too. As far as I know, that's it.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:52 pm UTC
by SDK
Yeah, specifically I can target one player at night. I will be told if they are Mercora or not.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:58 pm UTC
by SDK
bessie wrote:Page 8, SDK’s long awaited post ... Hahahahaha ... Yeah no. Without getting into the specifics of your claim, I feel that there are some nitpicky things in your posts that are suspicious. Like this:
SDK wrote:I slipped a couple times earlier which a couple of you had caught onto ("proper mafia", caught by LaserGuy, is one I remember well)
You have a mind like a steel trap. It’s not like you to make an error about something you claim to remember well.

Oh, it wasn't LaserGuy, it was you (jumping off LaserGuy's first catch). Here's your post where you grill me for the "proper mafia" thing. After you and Laser jumped on me, it was very clear that I'd screwed up the town wincon. Reread my slip there and tell me it doesn't sound natural. I DO NOT KNOW THE TOWN WINCON, so how could my steel trap mind have prevented this?

bessie wrote:I’m also suspicious of the real reason for your survivor claim (independent of whether or not it is true) because you know that you will most likely be lynched for it.

What should I have done, in your opinion? At least this way, if I get lynched, you guys might believe my buddies going forward. I can still win so long as any Mercora are left alive at the end.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:54 pm UTC
by Sabrar
So...

Apologies to my teammates, I misread a single word in my wincon (it's not the most clear I ever had the chance to but the mistake is entirely my fault) and thought we would have to (almost completely) eliminate both other factions in order to win. In short I thought I was scum (without chat and without knowing my team-mates, just like WoT2). I was pissed off, entered the game from a completely wrong mind-set and was focused on entirely irrelevant things.

Unfortunately due to this I got under a ton of suspicion and I somewhat lost my drive. It is clear to me I won't be able to avoid getting lynched sooner or later and I accept that. Yes, I'm Mercora, I'm 100% certain that SDK is one as well because it would be unheard of Garatron receiving details about our Cop-ability. I didn't receive all that additional background info (and honestly SDK could just have made that up though it sounds reasonable) but other than that I can confirm everything he said. We definitely won't gain any new abilities or chat if we Cop each-other, that can be confirmed by mod if you really want it.

PS: I believe jimbob to be scum, though that's par for course. It's the way he emphasizes things (like X and Y have access to Town win-con). Also this just reeks. And I don't get the feeling of true scum-hunting from him, he mostly just follows Town around.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:07 pm UTC
by LaserGuy
I saw you lurking around in thread and figured there must be a reason you weren't posting :) That simplifies things a bit.

@Town:
I think it may be best if we just lynch wam and hold off on discussing strategy re: Mercora until tomorrow when we have some flip info. I definitely don't see any reason to lynch either Sabrar or SDK today.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:31 pm UTC
by Sabrar
Received clarification from mod. We need all indies/potential 3rd alien factions to kill in order to win. Only Human or Garatron can remain.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:34 pm UTC
by SDK
Hi Sabrar! I made the exact same mistake with our wincon wording. Cleared it up with heury immediately though.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:36 pm UTC
by freezeblade
I can say, from my PM, that there are indeed 3 alien factions. I have reason to not revel which faction I belong to, as I believe there may be some major mechanics in place discouraging this type of behavior, likely in the form of player powers as opposed to mod-based mechanics.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:50 pm UTC
by Vicarin
Waking up to this is like Christmas!

Oh look, someone tried to claim town with a different win condition. This totally wasn't predictable, nosiree.

At this point, super happy to just lynch wam and be done with it for today, but should keep talking for the time being, make sure everyone contributes, etc.

Don't mind explaining now or tomorrow why it's a really dumb idea to try to kill Mercora at the moment, if people need me to.

Also, Sabrar and SDK, would you awfully mind copping each other tonight? Just so we can all be sure of your claims.

Was also not entirely surprised when Sabrar revealed being an alien: this story makes much, much more sense with how everything transpired.

Unfortunately, Garatron almost certainly have known/been able to guess the town win condition for a while now if this is how its set up. Have to double check how people viewed the start of the game to be sure. wam is definitely the best shot right now at nailing one at least.

Anyone else want to claim stuff now? Mercora seem perfectly nice, being relatively forthcoming and all.

Ninja'd by freezeblade

@freezeblade: you claiming to be an alien but refusing to name faction then?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:52 pm UTC
by freezeblade
Vicarin wrote:@freezeblade: you claiming to be an alien but refusing to name faction then?


More specifically, I'm claiming to not wanting to reveal my faction, alien or otherwise. However, I know there to be 3 alien factions, along with at least one human one (I only am aware of one).

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:55 pm UTC
by Vicarin
freezeblade wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@freezeblade: you claiming to be an alien but refusing to name faction then?


More specifically, I'm claiming to not wanting to reveal my faction, alien or otherwise. However, I know there to be 3 alien factions, along with at least one human one (I only am aware of one).


Were all 3 alien factions named?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:00 am UTC
by freezeblade
Vicarin wrote:
freezeblade wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@freezeblade: you claiming to be an alien but refusing to name faction then?


More specifically, I'm claiming to not wanting to reveal my faction, alien or otherwise. However, I know there to be 3 alien factions, along with at least one human one (I only am aware of one).


Were all 3 alien factions named?


No, however one which has not yet been mentioned is named: Illaman.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:03 am UTC
by Vicarin
Ok, well, that cat is out of the bag then.

Any Illaman want to claim now? Severely doubt town wants to kill you either.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:30 am UTC
by Vicarin
I'm still trying to work out how this setup is balanced, 3 Garatron seems like it would be ludicrously hard to beat for town, maybe there's just 2...

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:54 am UTC
by LaserGuy
freezeblade wrote:
Vicarin wrote:
freezeblade wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@freezeblade: you claiming to be an alien but refusing to name faction then?


More specifically, I'm claiming to not wanting to reveal my faction, alien or otherwise. However, I know there to be 3 alien factions, along with at least one human one (I only am aware of one).


Were all 3 alien factions named?


No, however one which has not yet been mentioned is named: Illaman.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:55 am UTC
by LaserGuy
LaserGuy wrote:
freezeblade wrote:
Vicarin wrote:
freezeblade wrote:
Vicarin wrote:@freezeblade: you claiming to be an alien but refusing to name faction then?


More specifically, I'm claiming to not wanting to reveal my faction, alien or otherwise. However, I know there to be 3 alien factions, along with at least one human one (I only am aware of one).


Were all 3 alien factions named?


No, however one which has not yet been mentioned is named: Illaman.


Oops. Let's try this again. Either you're claiming Illaman yourself or you're basically claiming scum, I think.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 2:12 am UTC
by Vicarin
@LaserGuy: While I don't really like the wording freezeblade used that much, I'm pretty sure he's claiming that Illaman and Mercora were mentioned by name, and that a 3rd existed but was not named. Which seems believable to me. Trying to extract that information from him directly would probably immediately veer straight into quoting PMs territory, so I'm not terribly interested in trying that now. We've got 4 faction names in the wild now, and I don't think anyone's seriously going to think that there's 5 in a 13 player game.

Also, can you comment on your setup speculation further now? Yours stood out a fair bit I think.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:36 am UTC
by LaserGuy
My setup spec prior to all of the new information? Or my current setup spec?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:49 am UTC
by Vicarin
Well, your first spec which was 9-2-2 stood out a lot compared to others.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:35 am UTC
by plytho
Vicarin wrote:Any Illaman want to claim now? Severely doubt town wants to kill you either.
That's a bad idea.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:58 am UTC
by Vicarin
You have any specific reason for that? Bad for town or bad for the Illaman?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:59 am UTC
by LaserGuy
Well, 9-2-2 with two kills is pretty standard multiball for 13 players, albeit fairly scum-sided in practice, so that was my starting point. I figured not needing to completely wipe out both teams was a balancing mechanism that probably was supposed to make up for bad powers on Townside and/or strong powers on scumside. I didn't really give it too much thought beyond that since there wasn't much to go off of and I'm not very good at setup spec anyway. I figured that mafia didn't know the Town wincon, but did know that it was multiball (by team size if nothing else), and the reason the setup gambit worked was because they didn't know what Town knew.


Current setup appears to be more like this:

Code: Select all

Human----Mercora
 |          |
 |          |
Illaman---Gararoth


where connected teams know about each other and can win together; teams on diagonals don't know about each other (except everyone knows about Human) and can't win together. Numbers are something like 7-2-2-2, 6-2-2-2-1, 6-2-2-3, or, at very worst, 5-2-2-3-1 though that seems pretty unwinnable for Town (the one being where wam flips scum or SK).

I've given scum points to anyone who specced this correctly before SDK claimed.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:02 am UTC
by Maven89
I'll just say that the town win conditions are way more clear now than they were before. I didn't think there'd be a fourth faction, now that we know there are, it makes more sense what we have to do

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:07 am UTC
by plytho
Vicarin wrote:You have any specific reason for that? Bad for town or bad for the Illaman?
bad for both, I think. Definitely bad for town. Garatron have a much easier time picking off humans if they know who everyone else is.

Also I seem to have made a similar mistake to Sabrar and dial back my enthusiasm for lynching SDK over wam earlier.

Let's keep the three mercora alive for now and let them help us get garatron. But we need to keep our guards up around them as they don't actually care about garatron/humans.

I generally agree with LaserGuy's spec. But I think the numbers are 5-3-3-2 with garatron being a smaller faction with a night kill.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:07 am UTC
by LaserGuy
Who is the third Mercora? Did I miss something?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:08 am UTC
by Vicarin
LaserGuy wrote:Well, 9-2-2 with two kills is pretty standard multiball for 13 players, albeit fairly scum-sided in practice, so that was my starting point. I figured not needing to completely wipe out both teams was a balancing mechanism that probably was supposed to make up for bad powers on Townside and/or strong powers on scumside. I didn't really give it too much thought beyond that since there wasn't much to go off of and I'm not very good at setup spec anyway. I figured that mafia didn't know the Town wincon, but did know that it was multiball (by team size if nothing else), and the reason the setup gambit worked was because they didn't know what Town knew.


I'm struggling to think what you thought the mafia wincon was in this situation.

LaserGuy wrote:I've given scum points to anyone who specced this correctly before SDK claimed.


You do you, but it was pretty apparent from the wincon that it couldn't just be Humans, Illaman, and Mercora. Hence my setup speculation numbers.

I'm finding anyone who didn't conclude that there were at least 4 groups to be somewhat scummy.

Ninjaed what 3rd mercora?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:21 am UTC
by plytho
Well, he didn't claim, but it's pretty obvious.

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:24 am UTC
by Vicarin
I can definitely believe this being a 5-3-3-2 setup where it's actually a 5-2 setup in disguise with two factions of opposed survivors (having 6-2-2-3 seems way too scum biased). The main issue for Illaman and Mercora is that if SDK and Sabrar aren't lying, there's not terribly much one side can do to earn either Town's or Garatron's trust. They're just going to try to get people from the other faction lynched or NKed, and then join up with whoever wins the 5-2 setup.

This leads to a weird situation currently, because Sabrar and SDK are out in the open right now, but noone really has a motivation to do anything to them except Illaman. Which is why I was kind of expecting Illaman to have started claiming by now, because if they put themselves out in the open, they are relatively safe, and just get to sit back and watch as well. If they don't, they might be accidentally NKed or lynched, and that's just bad for them.

Where the setup gets REALLY interesting is that this means that town and scum have another strategy which is to claim to be Mercora or Illaman in order to evade suspicion by both of those sides and survive longer. Which I suspect is why Illaman and Mercora have a race cop that only hits their own faction (that's pretty damn useless for any other reason, it'd be much more useful to know who's on the opposing faction). Hence why I wanted SDK and Sabrar to cop each other tonight, to make sure neither of them is scum pulling off this gambit immediately.

Ninjad again: I don't think there's anyone else I'd pegged as specifically being Mercora, who are you referring to? I guess Maven?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:35 am UTC
by plytho
Why maven?

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:42 am UTC
by Vicarin
plytho wrote:Why maven?


Small pool of possible people considering that a lot of people haven't posted since SDK's claim and this

Maven89 wrote:Yeah I'm fine lynching Wam.

SDK, however, made me re-read my role PM and double check. It's possible he's just blowing smoke up our assess, but it's also possible we shouldn't kill him. I really, really want to know what happens if he finds another of his species


made me think that maybe he wanted to try targeting SDK with a racecop. I really want to know what you think was an obvious 3rd Mercora, because I didn't think there was one...

Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:43 am UTC
by mpolo
O.K., I missed that the second alien faction was wrong in the post above. So there are three factions, which changes things a little. We do have to get rid of Garatron, because of the last clause of the description (had to read it a couple of times to grok that). I would at this point be perfectly happy with teaming up with Mercora, since Illaman is not being forthcoming.

Unvote

I should be able to prove my towniness more clearly on Day Two.