Alien Warfare Mafia (GAME OVER)

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Maven89
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:29 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
Maven89 wrote:Despite that, Sabrar refusing to answer as to what part of his post was damning is really telling, as was his lame call back about making a post before role Pms came out
I'm avoiding giving hints to scum and was the reason why I posted my original setup without any modification. And I take offense at being called lame. I think pre-made posts are fun and shouldn't be taken seriously. I was very surprised when my previous attempt was over-analyzed and I'm again very surprised that people didn't learn anything from that.


The "lame" comment meant it was an ineffective defense, not lame as in uncool. Poor would have probably been a better choice.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:33 am UTC

@Bessie, double check, do you agree that Sabrar's post doesn't actually prove anything?

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:36 am UTC

Sorry for the triple post, but you too Wam. Please answer the question I posed to Bessie

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wam
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:02 am UTC

I think it's wierd but not definitive.
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:04 am UTC

Maven89 wrote: @Bessie, double check, do you agree that Sabrar's post doesn't actually prove anything?
Depends on which part of the post you are referring to.

Sabrar wrote:Welcome to all newbies, hope you'll have a wonderful time!
@Mark_Cangila: could you please let us know your preferred pronoun(s) in the appropriate thread (or here)?

It's been so long I almost forgot how to play this game with standard setup... Let's see if I can remember.

8-3-1-1 with one town-friendly indie, bessie and plytho are town, LaserGuy and freezeblade are scum, SDK is just plain dangerous.

Vote: SDK

Hey, I've still got it! :)
This part of Sabrar’s post may or may not have been written before he received his role pm, and I don't think it matters. It may or may not be problematic. It is interesting, but not as interesting as the discussion that followed.

Sabrar wrote:
Faction win conditions purposely left out of the Original Post.
This is strange and signifies either something weird going on or the mod deliberately messing with our heads.

All players within a faction have the same wincon text.
And this one. Why would someone think otherwise?
This had to be written after Sabrar read his role pm, since the mod added it to the OP after he sent out the role pms. My feeling is that this part of Sabrar’s post is suspicious.

wam wrote:My initial read was actually the opposite of vics first post.
Can you explain this? Which part of Vicarin’s first post are you referring to?

wam wrote:So I was thinking about setup, I seem to remeber that huery wanted 13 players. So I would expect something wierd in there. Will think through what might drive 13 players for balance.
Hmmm.

Ninja'd by wam. Interesting.

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wam
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:07 am UTC

@Bessie

It was everyone stating that vics first post was town. I got a message to scum buddies ping the first time I read it. 2nd time round I couldn't see it.
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LaserGuy
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:10 am UTC

wam wrote:@Bessie

It was everyone stating that vics first post was town. I got a message to scum buddies ping the first time I read it. 2nd time round I couldn't see it.


Who is this "everyone" that stated Vic's first post was Town?

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:13 am UTC

Huh I thought it was Bessie and maven as well as you. Laser clearly I view you as representative of everyone :D
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby bessie » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:15 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I think pre-made posts are fun and shouldn't be taken seriously.
I strongly disagree. Everything posted in the game thread is content and fair game for analysis. I’m going to sleep and can’t dig it up now, but it’s not too hard to find past references. Just search my posts for my position on analyzing confirmation posts. Will be happy to provide multiple links tomorrow if necessary.

wam wrote:It was everyone stating that vics first post was town. I got a message to scum buddies ping the first time I read it. 2nd time round I couldn't see it.
Who said Vicarin was town, except for LaserGuy (later)? My initial read of Vicarin the opposite, for what I think was a different reason than you.

Ninja’d by LaserGuy. And wam.

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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:30 am UTC

bessie wrote:I strongly disagree. Everything posted in the game thread is content and fair game for analysis. I’m going to sleep and can’t dig it up now, but it’s not too hard to find past references. Just search my posts for my position on analyzing confirmation posts. Will be happy to provide multiple links tomorrow if necessary.
There's no need. I'm fully aware of your stance on this, you can use your time more efficiently elsewhere. Meanwhile can you answer this?

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Maven89
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:30 am UTC

Wam, do you agree with Bessie on what the suspicious part of Sabrar's post is?

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LaserGuy
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:35 am UTC

bessie and Maven looking Town. Not liking wam's content at the moment.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:41 am UTC

@maven can't quote easily as I'm on phone. It's the 2nd half I can think of many reasons for wondering about the wincon. Sabrar should be able to come up with something.

Laser how's your view of sabrar changed based on content since your vote ?
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Maven89
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:44 am UTC

If no one minds, I'd like to call dibs on being the first to post the human win condition if the time ever arises

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:48 am UTC

That is a wierd request. Care to pr9vide more details ?
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:48 am UTC

As to your reasoning not the actual claim.
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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:50 am UTC

Let's just nip it in the bud before you needlessly wait for me to explain it.

I was once mod-warned about fishing for information in another player's role-pm. Here was my take on the situation. Quoting myself:
I'm against outside circumstances (like wording in pm) deciding the outcome of any game

So no, I'm not going to discuss role-pms. I'm perfectly fine being lynched over this, it's just not how I want to play the game.

@Maven: You should be aware of rule 7.

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Maven89
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:53 am UTC

"wording in PM" doesn't mean the information in the PM. If our win condition was spelled out to "get Sabrar to light his luxurious hair on fire", then saying that we win is Sabrar lights his hair on fire isn't against the rules. That would be if we focused on who knew the correct adjective. At least, that's how it was other places I played at. If simply paraphrasing the win condition counted then mod please let me know

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Maven89 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:55 am UTC

wam wrote:As to your reasoning not the actual claim.


At some point in the future

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LaserGuy
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:56 am UTC

wam wrote:Laser how's your view of sabrar changed based on content since your vote ?


I would be quite surprised if he was Town at this point. I think he knows now that there is information that he doesn't have that we do, and is understandably upset that he blundered because of it. For a little while I thought this might be some crazy gambit to clear a few townies, but given his recent posting, that seems extremely unlikely now.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:57 am UTC

Yeah, there's a pretty big difference between "I'm going to use the exact wording in my PM to prove I'm town" and "I'm going to use the information in my PM to prove I'm town". Otherwise claiming to be a role would be against the rules.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:10 am UTC

Still thinking about this. I know what others find suspicious about Sabrar (I was explicitly watching out for it myself), and similarly won't spell it out now, but if anybody wants to challenge me on it later, I'm happy to explain. I'm still thinking about it, and am not convinced that this reason actually means that Sabrar is scum.

I'd be VERY surprised if scum don't have the town win condition. I actually explicitly asked about it, and even suggested that they should be given it for balance reasons, which I can explain in more detail later.
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:24 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Still thinking about this. I know what others find suspicious about Sabrar (I was explicitly watching out for it myself), and similarly won't spell it out now, but if anybody wants to challenge me on it later, I'm happy to explain. I'm still thinking about it, and am not convinced that this reason actually means that Sabrar is scum.

I'd be VERY surprised if scum don't have the town win condition. I actually explicitly asked about it, and even suggested that they should be given it for balance reasons, which I can explain in more detail later.


I'm going with he's definitely not town/human until he gives the slightest indication of knowing why what he said was a bad idea.

And yeah, I was expecting scum to know the town win condition for balance reasons, but I'm going to go with 'h_a knows what he's doing' and assume the game won't be broken by what's going on here.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:26 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:Let's just nip it in the bud before you needlessly wait for me to explain it.

I was once mod-warned about fishing for information in another player's role-pm. Here was my take on the situation. Quoting myself:
I'm against outside circumstances (like wording in pm) deciding the outcome of any game

So no, I'm not going to discuss role-pms. I'm perfectly fine being lynched over this, it's just not how I want to play the game.

@Maven: You should be aware of rule 7.


In the post you quoted there, you said this:
I would like to respectfully contest that ruling, or at least clarify my pov.
I always follow the rules extremely strictly and ask for clarification if anything is unclear or out of line (please note previous pm-s).
I'm fully aware of rule 6 and that's why I intentionally avoided using the word 'threat' which appears in my pm and used 'enemy' instead. I even substituted 'normal' instead of 'standard'.
I didn't ask GoP to confirm a specific word or phrase, I was looking for confirmation regarding the content of his pm which can be paraphrased according to the rule. It should not be my fault if he interpreted it differently and broke the rule of his own accord.


What are you were asking GoP here is much more specific as to the wording of the role PM than what is being asked of you. If you were Town, you would understand the difference already.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:37 am UTC

Obviously the specifics were different but it was the closest example I could find. I understand all of your issues but I still don't wish to discuss it (besides it wouldn't prove anything if my belief of scum receiving the town win-con is true).

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:52 am UTC

If you believe that scum received the town win-con, then surely town doesn't lose anything out of you making a statement that would unambiguously establish that you know it (even without giving it all away)? And if they didn't, then knowing it would mean that you're town.

I'm not really seeing any way in which your actions can be interpreted as town.

@everyone with no posts: any thoughts on the setup? :twisted:

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:59 am UTC

As explained before, it's not how I want to play the game. I get it that you think differently and want to lynch me because of it but you do not seem to make any effort trying to understand my pov.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:19 am UTC

Sabrar o actually agree with your point on not boiling the game down to things like that. However in my mind it comes under the same category as gojoe posts. Which you have been in favour of

Sabrar wrote:
wam wrote:Sabrar you have said multiple times that you have an actual town read on bessie but have never gone into details. Care to share the details?
She didn't post in Gojoe.
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:46 am UTC

That was a meta-read that I could not help making. It influenced my thinking regardless of any other factors. We can choose not to discuss role-pms.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:00 pm UTC

BTW the setup must be a combination of Shakespeare III and Cross-over but similarly to those I don't think it's balanced.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:13 pm UTC

Jeez, was that so hard?

Unvote

I don't think that's quite the correct conclusion, but oh well. Any particular reason you didn't want to say something along those lines for ages, or have you just broken your no discussing role-pms rule?

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:31 pm UTC

I was thinking it might be more along the lines of Wheel of Time 2, but I don't know.
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Liri » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:46 pm UTC

Holy cannoli! What time zone are you folks in? Venus?

If scum don't know the win-con, then I'd assume there's something wonky. What wonky would be, I don't have a good idea* (the secret santa was bog-standard when it came to the basic setup, right?)


*this is my second game, if you didn't play/follow the last santa
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:46 pm UTC

WoT2 did not have a 'Town'-faction.

@Vicarin: I had to wait for the mod to answer a question.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Liri » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:47 pm UTC

Wheel of Time, Shakespeare, Crossover - is there a good place to see what those setups involved? I don't want you guys to have to explain all that.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Vicarin » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:55 pm UTC

@Sabrar: That wasn't the reason you were giving before as to why you were steadfastly refusing to answer. When someone says that they're happy getting lynched over a principle, they don't usually turn around soon after and break it.

@Liri: Unfortunately, talking about the setups involved here would probably focus on the parts most relevant as to why they're mentioned, ruining the point of referring to those aspects obliquely. Just looking at the last page or two of the game threads should give some some idea of how the setup worked, and you can relate that to people talking about the town win condition, hopefully.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:17 pm UTC

Vicarin wrote:@Sabrar: That wasn't the reason you were giving before as to why you were steadfastly refusing to answer. When someone says that they're happy getting lynched over a principle, they don't usually turn around soon after and break it.

.


This sums up my reaction exactly. Something doesn't add up here.
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby plytho » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:22 pm UTC

I'm pretty busy the first couple of days (extended weekend filled with fun appointments, followed by work with less fun appointments) so my content will be pretty low until Friday probably.

First thoughts, Sabrar is suspicious and I don't feel his last posts absolve him of that suspicion.

Maven volunteering to claim town wincon is weird and I don't see how it could help town.
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Sabrar
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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby Sabrar » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:24 pm UTC

Seeing that you have no idea what I discussed with the mod I don't think you are in a position to know my reasons.

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Re: Alien Warfare Mafia (Day One)

Postby wam » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:25 pm UTC

plytho wrote:
Maven volunteering to claim town wincon is weird and I don't see how it could help town.


I've been thinking this through. If I was scum who knew the town win con. In the situation the game was in, That is the sort of gambit I would play to make myseit look town.
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