Diablo Mafia - Day 6 (The End)

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Gopher of Pern
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:05 am UTC

As an Ogre, I'm surprised you understand the meaning of diverse :P

Sabrar wrote:
Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm also of the opinion that there might be a type of jester in the game.
What makes you say this?


The idea of a jester appeals to me. It can sorta also go with the flavour. It's just a hunch I have.

ahippo wrote:At first I thought that couldn't possibly be the case, but you're kinda right. I don't think Tyrael could be scum, or Diablo town. Here's a total shot in the dark. Is it possible that Diablo's influence jumps from person to person, and we'd have lynch the one who's currently possessed? I'm not really sure how that would all work, but it's a possibility that allows for shifting alignments without being a cult game. I'm sure that's not the actual setup, but it's a thought. It sorta fits with RNG alignments, too.


Diablo jumping from person to person would be interesting, but I thought that this would be at least somewhat newbie friendly. Or not. Can't say I see that happening, do you have any reason to suspect it? The first post only said that alignments can change, which feels stronger than may change. On reading the top post, dimochka did say that roles have been seen before, so unless someone has seen a role that hops from person to person, I doubt it is in the game. Really doubt it.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby ahippo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:34 am UTC

Vote: Gopher of Pern
For being culturally insensitive to people of layers.
Unvote

Gopher of Pern wrote:Diablo jumping from person to person would be interesting, but I thought that this would be at least somewhat newbie friendly. Or not. Can't say I see that happening, do you have any reason to suspect it? The first post only said that alignments can change, which feels stronger than may change. On reading the top post, dimochka did say that roles have been seen before, so unless someone has seen a role that hops from person to person, I doubt it is in the game. Really doubt it.

Eh, fair. I wasn't thinking about the fact that this game was advertised as newbie friendly. That would be kinda fun, though! I can think of a few ways to make it work. Maybe I'll tuck that idea away for the future.

Are there any other newbie friendly roles that can cause alignments to shift, outside of a cult? Having just gotten out of WoT2, I can't say I'm super keen on another game that crazy right away.

And to spark a bit more discussion, I'm going to come out and claim to be Griswold, the blacksmith. I'm keeping my power a secret for now, though. I doubt there's any character who would have a win-condition involved in killing me, especially since win conditions don't seem to have anything to do with role. jimbobmacdoodle is right in that the fact that there won't be any counterclaim doesn't mean much of anything. I wouldn't be claiming this so early in the game if I thought it mattered significantly.

But hey! I wouldn't be me if I didn't do something really confusing and stupid every day! Gotta live up to the brand.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby bessie » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:03 am UTC

Welcome new players! If you have any mafia gameplay questions, just ask and someone will probably answer them truthfully.

I am flavor blind and won’t have time to read any flavor until later tonight, so here’s my initial setup spec for a generic 15 player game.

9 Town (cop, doctor, tracker, watcher, vigilante, PGO, bodyguard, universal backup, and jack of all trades, one of which is a miller)
3 Mafia (godfather/roleblocker, ninja, strongman)
1 Mafia supporter (recruitable)
1 Serial killer
1 lyncher or other independent

I might revise this later. I need to read the flavor and think about how a cult might fit.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm going to assume given the number of players and relatively few NPCs that scum have false claims, so a lack of counter-claiming doesn't imply town.
Why would scum need false claims? Per Game-specific rule #8, name-claiming/power-claiming is allowed. And this:
dimochka wrote:Note: The only use of RNG in this game was to allocate player alignments. Any role could be town / scum / something else.

IGMEOY jimbobmacdoodle.

Sabrar wrote:Was there no balancing done after allocating alignments? So all of these hypothetical scenarios could occur?
- Doctor is scum even though there's no other kill other than the Mafia NK
- PGO is scum preventing most investigative abilities succeeding on him
- Diablo is Town
Why do you think Diablo is in the game? Does it make flavor sense?

More later. I thought I would have more to contribute right now but the discussion so far has been mostly flavor focused so I think I need to research a little. I'm so flavor blind that I'm having trouble analyzing everyone's posts.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Madge » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:03 am UTC

Guys!! How's it going. Let's get this show on the road.

One: I'm a miller (specifically, I appear as a demon)

Two: My name appears in Dimochka's "day start" flavour post. I suspect other peoples' names do as well. (This part of my claim is mostly so that way people know that if I'm scum claiming to be miller, I'm painting myself into a corner early and unnecessarily, so hopefully people will be more inclined to trust me)

I like the idea that, flavour-wise, we are ordinary townspeople and some demons have possessed some of us. It would mean that all our rolenames are "good" guys, and then in flavour it's like "oh Deckard Cain was lynched! He was possessed by the demon such-and-such and aligned with the demons! Good job townsfolk!"

My flavour knowledge is minimal, I played Diablo 2 quite a bit when I was 12-13 but the plot didn't really stay with me.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:09 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why do you think Diablo is in the game? Does it make flavor sense?


Diablo is the final boss of the original game. IIRC, he is trapped inside an amulet, and anyone who wears the amulet becomes possessed by Diablo and eventually he can use their body as a host for his mortal form.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:33 am UTC

bessie wrote:Why do you think Diablo is in the game? Does it make flavor sense?
Having never played any of the games my first instinct would say that in a Diablo Mafia game Diablo would be the boss of scum. Currently reevaluating that due to contribution from players with actual flavor-knowledge.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby mpolo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:58 am UTC

Wow, that was a lot of day start posting.

There is a fairly good chance of a culting mechanic, simply because of the amount of weasel words the mod put in to allow that. Also from my role info, I think that more will be happening than just kills, though this is more interpretation than explicit statements. So I may be grasping at straws there.

I'd expect around 5-6 anti-town/indie, but probably not all united in one faction, possibly less if a cult is the main threat. But 1/3 anti-town is pretty common around here.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:41 am UTC

Madge wrote:Two: My name appears in Dimochka's "day start" flavour post. I suspect other peoples' names do as well. (This part of my claim is mostly so that way people know that if I'm scum claiming to be miller, I'm painting myself into a corner early and unnecessarily, so hopefully people will be more inclined to trust me)
If the "we're all villagers some of whom are controlled by demons" speculation (which you like so much) is true then the above won't mean anything.

@ahippo: why did you feel the need to claim? I think this forum has a good track-record of guessing abilities based on names in flavor-driven games, so this looks to me a bad idea. Please provide a more serious answer than "I had to do something silly".

I like bessie's setup spec, except for bodyguard and lyncher. I don't think we have 6 anti-town roles in the game.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:50 am UTC

Looked at dimochka's pregame posts and can't see anything about no cult, so I'm probably thinking of a different game. That being said, depending on when dimochka designed this game, I consider a cult somewhat unlikely, after the cult madness of WoT 2, though it's certainly a possibility. However, until somebody flips cult, I can't see a way of us particularly cult hunting specificallynched unless anybody has concrete information on this (please don't reveal this unless it really is worthwhile).

Bessie, you are right (probably) about clear bad guy characters not necessarily being present. I got caught up with other players' talk of such and completely blanked the implications of dimochka's post.

@ahippo, why did you feel the need to claim your role name? Why do you think that roles such as a lyncher for you aren't present?

Trying to decide if I'm justified in this opinion, but my gut reacted negatively to Madge's miller claim. The main issue I have isn't with the miller claim itself (claiming miller truthfully early D1 is appropriate), but rather the justification in her second point. It struck me that her statement about being painted into a corner as scum was a case of "look at me, I'm not scum, and oh here's proof that I'm not". The fact that not all players have posted yet though means she's still at risk of being counter-claimed, so if she is scum it's quite a bold gambit. At work now, but will come back to this later.

Ninja'ed by Sabrar making the same points.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Pregame

Postby plytho » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:27 am UTC

dimochka wrote:Note: The only use of RNG in this game was to allocate player alignments. Any role could be town / scum / something else.

If roles are independent of alignment, can we eliminate some roles based on this? Are there any roles that are very scum/town/cult-specific?

I'm reading the diablo wiki to get an idea of possible names in the game. I agree that we're probably 15 villagers, some of whom are posessed.
Looking at the day start flavour 8 characters are mentioned: Deckard Cain,Gillian the Barmaid, poor Farnham,Farmer Lester, Ogden('s wife), Griswold, a well-spoken Bard, Wirt. Gopher of Pern mentioned 4 more: Adria, Pepin, Kael, Celia. That's still 3 short of 15.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Then there's also the possibility that the PC may be in the game, especially as there was a bard in the opening flavour


Maybe there are multiple PC characters? From the wiki: Barbarian,(Bard), Monk, Rogue, Sorcerer, Warrior. That brings us to about 17 possible characters.

Of all those I can see Lester being a jester as he apparently becomes 'the complete nut' in the game.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby ahippo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:42 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:@ahippo: why did you feel the need to claim? I think this forum has a good track-record of guessing abilities based on names in flavor-driven games.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@ahippo, why did you feel the need to claim your role name? Why do you think that roles such as a lyncher for you aren't present?

Heh. Nearly identical first sentences. First to answer Sabrar, my power is not exactly intuitive given my character. The most obvious power the blacksmith would have, IMO, is that I would provide another player with some additional power, given that the blacksmith of the Diablo series is the one who upgrades the heroes' weapons. I don't hand off powers to anyone else.

Secondly to jimbobmacdoodle, if they're out to get me, let them do so. I don't think "He claimed to be townie too early", is a good enough argument to lynch me by. Besides, unless there's a lyncher with a completely random target, why would the blacksmith be that target? And if there is a lyncher with a random target, there's a pretty great chance I'm not the target anyway.

But ultimately, the primary complaint about my play last game was that I barely added anything worth discussing. I decided to make that a non-issue. I didn't need to claim. I simply saw no harm in it. I'm the blacksmith, but that doesn't betray my power at all. If I die by lynching or otherwise, that's not that bad. I made the decision to play bold. I hated the feeling of twiddling my thumbs, waiting for others to tell me how I should act. Besides, I hate "Oh he reacted this way to her joke vote, etc. etc." as D1 content.

In unrelated news, I haven't played too many games with millers here. Is there any history of false miller claims on these forums? (I can't recall ATM) If so, we might consider Madge's claim pretty suspect. If not, is Madge the kind of person who would meta-game that hard this early in the game? I know, players can change play styles between games. Right now, I doubt this is something scum!Madge would do.
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:until somebody flips cult, I can't see a way of us particularly cult hunting

Agreed. But I'd like to ask my question again: What role, other than cult leader, do you think could change another player's alignment?

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:56 am UTC

plytho wrote:If roles are independent of alignment, can we eliminate some roles based on this? Are there any roles that are very scum/town/cult-specific?
That's what I wanted to clarify previously, but it looks like we won't get an answer.

Sabrar wrote:I like bessie's setup spec,
Related to the above, this is me forgetting about the random alignment distribution. The townie roles themselves look standard enough and can work even in the hands of scum (though vig would be too powerful I think), godfather could have been turned into miller, however ninja/strongarm alone does not make sense if rng puts it into the hands of town when there is no factional ability to use it with.

@ahippo: I understand where you're coming from but I think you've overreacted a bit.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby adnapemit » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:16 pm UTC

I think I got halfway through Diablo 2 and much less than that through the first game but it's been over 10 years since I played either. I'm going to be relying on the wiki a lot.

Madge claimed to be a miller. Which it is good to claim early. I'm inclined to believe her as she also claimed to be mentioned in the flavour as an attempt to make her claim stronger. A claim this early probably means she is either telling the truth or making a target of herself and this is not something I see scum as doing.

ahippo's claim would probably be ok and not as suspicious if he wasn't so certain he wasn't a target. I agree that it is more unlikely than likely that he is but it could still be possible. To be bold enough to claim anything this early usually has a reason. Madge claims miller(whether true or not there motivation behind the claim).

As for setup spec my guess would be 9/4/1/1 with two independents that or more neutral than anti town or 9/3/1/1/1 with the third independent being anti town. Maybe all of dimochka's hints of other win conditions or other factions are just to trick us and 11/4 could be possible.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:25 pm UTC

adnapemit wrote:'m inclined to believe her as she also claimed to be mentioned in the flavour as an attempt to make her claim stronger.


Can you (or someone else) explain why this makes her claim stronger?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:32 pm UTC

My interpretation of dimochka's RNG comment is that the role names were randomly allocated power/alignment combos (this would be the easiest way to avoid mass-claim shenanigans without resorting to false claims etc). So, for example, Gillian could be a town!cop, or serial killer!indie, or godfather!mafia.

Are you willing to confirm my above understanding? In other words, were all powers given to a specific alignment but all power/alignment combos were randomly distributed amongst the roles?
adnapemit wrote:Maybe all of dimochka's hints of other win conditions or other factions are just to trick us and 11/4 could be possible.

Unless dimochka out-right lied in the rules post, he did confirm that there is at least one other win condition beyond town and mafia.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:40 pm UTC

plytho wrote:Can you (or someone else) explain why this makes her claim stronger?
The idea in the usual scenario is that such a claim limits the potential characters that scum would have available as a false-claim. However as noted above this is not necessarily true here if all of us have 'normal' roles (i.e. not Diablo, other enemies) as in that case there would be no possibility of a counter-claim.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Unless dimochka out-right lied in the rules post, he did confirm that there is at least one other win condition beyond town and mafia.
I read that as at least another 2 (due to plural), but then I find it curious why he included rule 12 at all? Unless indies don't constitute a 'faction'?

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:03 pm UTC

Unvote: ahippo

Because he's obviously just an onion.

I wouldn't consider 'indie' a faction. A cult would be a third faction, along with a second scum group. Masons could potentially be considered a faction, albeit one aligned with town. I would say a faction is a group of one or more people that must win at the cost of another group. So a simple survivor or jester wouldn't be a faction, as they can win with either town or scum.

I tend to dislike early claims. Not that I don't believe them, but they take some of the fun out of the game. But that's personal preference.

ahippo wrote:Heh. Nearly identical first sentences. First to answer Sabrar, my power is not exactly intuitive given my character. The most obvious power the blacksmith would have, IMO, is that I would provide another player with some additional power, given that the blacksmith of the Diablo series is the one who upgrades the heroes' weapons. I don't hand off powers to anyone else.

Secondly to jimbobmacdoodle, if they're out to get me, let them do so. I don't think "He claimed to be townie too early", is a good enough argument to lynch me by. Besides, unless there's a lyncher with a completely random target, why would the blacksmith be that target? And if there is a lyncher with a random target, there's a pretty great chance I'm not the target anyway.


ahippo, I don't understand you. Claiming your role name this early means exactly nothing. Of course everyone claims to be townie. Plus, if we are all named town NPC's from the game, Griswold would be one of the first I would suspect as scum, due to him having a cameo in the second game as possessed.

If I were scum, and you were not, I would think that you are a PGO, trying to attract the scum kill. If so, kudos! I'm sure I've spilled enough WINE here to give them second thoughts. Maybe you do have a really good townie power, and are trying to make scum think you are a PGO, so they'll leave you alone. Mindgames....

I'm going to trust bessies setup spec, as she got it uncannily right last game (plus she already picked a miller). Do you think a possible Mafia supporter would know that they could be recruited? How would that work? If they get targeted by the NK, they get recruited instead?
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:34 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Are you willing to confirm my above understanding? In other words, were all powers given to a specific alignment but all power/alignment combos were randomly distributed amongst the roles?

Since I promised a newbie-friendly game, I'll explain a bit more. Alignments were allocated 100% randomly, and players assigned to a given role were also random. As far as the connection between powers and role - they weren't completely random but I took quite a bit of creative freedom with those, AND they were allocated BEFORE alignment. So if for instance I could have decided that Ogden's Wife (used as an example since she's dead in my flavor; not in the video game) was a healer, watcher / tracker, Ogden's bodyguard, or a million other things. That also DOES NOT prevent her from from being anti-town at the same time.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:23 pm UTC

bessie wrote:9 Town (cop, doctor, tracker, watcher, vigilante, PGO, bodyguard, universal backup, and jack of all trades, one of which is a miller)
3 Mafia (godfather/roleblocker, ninja, strongman)
1 Mafia supporter (recruitable)
1 Serial killer
1 lyncher or other independent


Looking at this popular rolespec, what changes considering the fact that roles and abilities are independent?

Town:
Vigilante seems too powerful to possibly end up as mafia
The others seem possible?

Mafia:
Ninja and strongman were mentioned above as useless for town, so unlikely.
Roleblocker works.

Indies:
Mafia supporter works.
For a serial killer, ability and role seem inseparable so I think it's unlikely there is one.
Lyncher works.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:41 pm UTC

SK usually has a secondary ability to facilitate his job (most likely GF or Ninja), also his kill could be considered 'factional' so I wouldn't discard the possibility at all. That would also make a scum!Doctor meaningful.
Furthermore given that the mod would have adjusted the setup in case of obvious balance issues, a Vigilante is also possible (but most likely Town/indie).

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby bessie » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:01 pm UTC

I think the conventional wisdom is that a miller is supposed to claim early.

Madge’s claim is interesting. If she is telling the truth, it makes it less likely that there are naïve millers. I had considered that players may not know they are possessed/demons/whatever scum naming works with the flavor. So it looks like scum knows they’re scum.

I realized after I read some flavor background and thought about the game for a while that my initial setup spec didn’t work with dimochka’s setup claim (RNG used to allocate alignments) since confirmed by dimochka. I still like the 9-3-1-1-1 distribution (or 9-4-1-1 if the mafia supporter is recruited) but would probably replace the ninja and strongman, since both are only useful as killing powers.

Madge wrote:I like the idea that, flavour-wise, we are ordinary townspeople and some demons have possessed some of us. It would mean that all our rolenames are "good" guys, and then in flavour it's like "oh Deckard Cain was lynched! He was possessed by the demon such-and-such and aligned with the demons! Good job townsfolk!"
I like this idea too. It fits with the mod hints.

plytho wrote:If roles are independent of alignment, can we eliminate some roles based on this? Are there any roles that are very scum/town/cult-specific?
Yes (see above where I discarded strongman and ninja). I think we need to be careful about eliminating any town roles though because they seem to be town-specific. For an example, read Misnomer’s Smalltown PYP game. All the roles were predetermined and the alignments were random, with scum (mafia, SK, and jester) having all the investigative roles. And miller/godfather wouldn’t be roles but would follow alignment.

Sabrar wrote:I like bessie's setup spec, except for bodyguard and lyncher. I don't think we have 6 anti-town roles in the game.
Why not a bodyguard? I thought about that and adding a bodyguard is actually a good way to balance a game by ensuring an important role (like an investigative role) is not killed the first night, without needing to double up on the role. And for lyncher, substitute anti-town role that leaves the game after they satisfy their win condition (I couldn’t think of anything but lyncher, jester, and militant atheist when I wrote it). Having 6 non-town roles doesn’t necessarily make them all anti-town. The lyncher’s target could be mafia, etc.

Ninja’d by plytho and Sabrar while I was typing this up. Serial killer is an alignment not a role. So for example we could have a serial killer/tracker. Losing an important townie role to scum by way of the RNG might be balanced by the JOAT role, or maybe an inventor.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby mpolo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:15 pm UTC

The other possibility would be to have some people specifically as backup roles. (Nurse or Deputy)

plytho makes a good point about Vigilante. Though that being assigned to mafia might be one of the edge conditions that would have caused our mod to fiddle with the setup. (Turn it into an unblockable kill if mafia happened to get it.)

All in all there are probably a few more townie abilities that have been randomly assigned to mafia members, making even people who "prove" their role through a result cannot automatically be trusted as town.

Looking at names:
Madge's miller claim => very likely town
Bessie => good speculation and participation => leaning town
plytho => I like the way his reasoning works => leaning town
Gopher => nervous about "blindly" following bessie's spec, though spec is not the most important thing
ahippo => unnecessarily early claim, want to watch behavior => neutral
Sabrar => some back and forth conversation looking natural => leaning town
jimbobmacdoodle => some interesting points => neutral

The rest are farther back, and I don't have time now.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:54 pm UTC

For those of you unfamiliar with the lore/flavor, please message me directly and I'll give you a paragraph or so synopsis of what you need to know regarding your role as it stands in the books/video game. The flavor I provided in the PMs was somewhat based on lore but in large part my variation on it.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:26 pm UTC

As for specing character names, I can confirm that mine is both not mentioned in the flavor text, and has also not been mentioned by any player so far.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:04 pm UTC

Can't comment much on the spec of the game... just don't know enough about mafia to be able to intuit how the roles work together, so most of that discussion I'm just making note of for reference later.

In terms of commentary so far, the most interesting to me are:

ahippo: Makes early claim of being Griswold, doesn't claim powers. Assuming any character can be randomly assigned scum roles are randomized, I can see this as being a clever play for scum--claim to be an obvious townie character to deflect attention from cops, etc. Alternately, it could be that he's bulletproof or PGO or something and is trying to draw the night kill. I can see this going either way.

Madge: Makes miller claim. Standard townie play with this role (town = alignment, role = miller, right?). Also claims to be part of the named townsfolk, though that doesn't really narrow things down much if some of these can be scum anyway.

freezeblade: Lots of interesting stuff here. Considered cult quite likely early on for, IMHO, pretty dubious reasons. A couple of other things he's said have been pinging me a bit, especially now with his claim of being not part of the expected town characters. If not scum, I suspect he's probably in a neutral faction--maybe his flavor text hints that he can be recruited in some way.

Sabrar: Lots of content and discussion, including a bit of scum hunting. Leaning townie.

mpolo: Produces first analysis list. Apparently his flavor suggests that there may be more going on than just kills, which I would love to know more about. If nothing else, this suggests his role might be something unusual, since nobody else has made similar comments.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:17 pm UTC

bessie wrote:Why not a bodyguard? I thought about that and adding a bodyguard is actually a good way to balance a game by ensuring an important role (like an investigative role) is not killed the first night, without needing to double up on the role.
I think bodyguard makes more sense if there is a clear connection between the characters (like Aes Sedai + Warder in WoT1). Plus given the random alignment distribution scum!BG + town!Cop or SK!Tracker for example seems just cruel.

bessie wrote:And for lyncher, substitute anti-town role that leaves the game after they satisfy their win condition (I couldn’t think of anything but lyncher, jester, and militant atheist when I wrote it). Having 6 non-town roles doesn’t necessarily make them all anti-town. The lyncher’s target could be mafia, etc.
I saw lyncher and immediately thought of it as anti-town making it the 6th such role in your setup, that's why I didn't like it. Again with the random distribution this is not something the mod had control over if my interpretation is correct.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby plytho » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:53 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:(town = alignment, role = miller, right?)


This has been confusing me a bit. I've seen people refer to miller/cop/godfather as roles (but also as powers/abilities). But I've also seen Griswold/Gillian/Lester being called roles (but also names).
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:05 pm UTC

Depending on context it can mean both and not everybody uses it the same way. It is usually pretty clear though what they refer to.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby freezeblade » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:32 pm UTC

Haven't heard much from Calington, JustDanceForever, or Znirk yet, it'd be great to hear something from the lurkers.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:29 pm UTC

Looking back on Madge's claim and thinking on it a bit more, I'm pretty confident that unless scum have fake claims for their powers (I have no idea why they would), then Madge is telling the truth. There is a small chance that she is not town, but I don't think it particularly likely.

@Madge, is there any flavour justification for you being a miller and appearing like a demon?

I thought of one good reason why ahippo might claim their name this early - he is a mafia supporter who can be recruited by being targeted by mafia, and he believes that mafia will know his name. This is of course completely random guessing, and there's no particular reason to support this above ahippo's own stated reasons.

ahippo asked about false miller claims. I have yet to see one in the last year and a half of playing and maybe six months of following before that. I think everybody discusses the possibility whenever somebody claims miller, but I don't think it's ever happened, at least recently.

I went back over my role PM, and I think there's a small chance that I have some sort of hidden bonus win condition, based on the flavour. It could be just flavour, so I'm not putting too much stock in it for now, but still. I don't see any benefit in revealing further info at this point, beyond that it is not anti-town, but probably will do at a later point in the game. I thought I'd highlight it though in case other players are in similar situations (e.g. if most players have something similar going on, it's more likely that it is genuine for all of us).
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Znirk » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:48 pm UTC

Back, catching up. (Sorry, took a bit longer than expected - the rehearsal I thought would run for 4 hours ended up taking nearly 8).

I did play some Diablo long ago, but I didn't remember that it even had a plot. Basically flying flavourblind - there's about 1/3 of my role pm where I can't even tell whether it's pure flavour or contains game-level relevant information. I've taken dimochka's offer to PM for more details, and am hoping for better understanding.

Gopher of Pern wrote:Diablo jumping from person to person [...] On reading the top post, dimochka did say that roles have been seen before, so unless someone has seen a role that hops from person to person, I doubt it is in the game. Really doubt it.

I did have something like that in the recent high school halloween thing, although I didn't get to actually use it: the Cauliflower Costume power could exchange itself with the target's power (I would steal their power, they would get the power to steal etc.). But this is just for the record: I don't expect this game to have wandering scumminess, simply because that would defeat the point of Mafia games as I see it.

freezeblade wrote:As for specing character names, I can confirm that mine is both not mentioned in the flavor text, and has also not been mentioned by any player so far.

Same here.

I'm not comfortable adding to any setup speculation - as a casual player (third ever forum game for me) I simply don't understand what combinations are or aren't balanced. For the benefit of those who do engage in such speculation, I'll go ahead and claim independent win condition though: whether or not I win doesn't directly depend on whether it's town or scum who win the larger game.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby ahippo » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:55 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Unvote: ahippo

Because he's obviously just an onion.

I'm glad you got that. Also, thanks for unvoting.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:ahippo asked about false miller claims. I have yet to see one in the last year and a half of playing and maybe six months of following before that.

Thanks! In that case, I'm going to agree with mpolo in saying she's very likely town.

What's tough about this game is that either every role has been written so that it could be useful in any alignment, or some people probably got the shaft like Sabrar has been discussing. My own role is the former, but that doesn't mean it's true for everyone.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I went back over my role PM, and I think there's a small chance that I have some sort of hidden bonus win condition, based on the flavour.
...
I thought I'd highlight it though in case other players are in similar situations

If I read into my role PM really hard, I guess I could see a minor secondary win condition, but that's really stretching the text. Also, that'd be pretty devious of dimochka to put in a newbie-friendly game.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Carlington » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:51 am UTC

As I write this, I'm on the train with 2% battery.

Hi all! I will comment more thoroughly this evening, but immediate guy is that Madge is actually miller, Znirk is actually indie. A newbie friendly game probably has like 8-4-1-1.

1% battery!, more soon.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby dimochka » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:45 am UTC

Current Votals:
Carlington - 1 (Sabrar)
JustDanceUnlimited - 1 (Jimbobmacdoodle)
Madge - 1 (SirGabriel)

15 people alive, 8 to lynch.

D1 Deadline [Click here!] in about 4 days and 8 hours (and is a soft deadline, assuming no one reached majority). Expect future days to be shorter.


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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Carlington » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:43 am UTC

Carlington wrote:
As I write this, I'm on the train with 2% battery.

Hi all! I will comment more thoroughly this evening, but immediate guy is that Madge is actually miller, Znirk is actually indie. A newbie friendly game probably has like 8-4-1-1.

1% battery!, more soon.

At work now, I hit submit as my phone died

I've had a read through, but much like others I'm feeling a little hindered by my lack of flavour knowledge. dimochka provided a handy need-to-know summary via PM which I'm going to refer back to as we go along, so there's that. I also just realised that my setup needs to be 8-4-1-1-1 or 9-4-1-1. I don't know which of those I find more believeable - 9-3-1-1 would work if 1 is a Survivor I think, otherwise probably 8-4-1-1-1 (I guess 9-3-1-1-1 is possible, but I don't know. Having anti-town indies can harm mafia's chances because of the potential for crossfire, so I think that setup leans too far town.)
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:52 am UTC

ahippo wrote:Also, that'd be pretty devious of dimochka to put in a newbie-friendly game.
I fully agree with hidden win-cons being very unlikely.

Unvote
Znirk wrote:whether or not I win doesn't directly depend on whether it's town or scum who win the larger game.
I have issues with this wording, e.g. it is technically true for Jester but I still would think that it is an anti-town role as it tries to take away a valuable lynch-opportunity that could have been used to get rid of scum. Now obviously no-one will claim to be an anti-town indie but IGMEOY.

Does a Survivor make sense given the flavor?

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby mpolo » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:19 am UTC

I think you can make Survivor fit in with just about any flavor, so I would not be surprised if one existed.

Znirk has claimed to be non-town independent, which can be a lot of things (lyncher and survivor would be the most common of those, though jester is also in the ballpark).
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:35 am UTC

Theoretically, anyone could be a survivor, as most of the townsfolk just want to survive.

Carlington wrote:I've had a read through, but much like others I'm feeling a little hindered by my lack of flavour knowledge. dimochka provided a handy need-to-know summary via PM which I'm going to refer back to as we go along, so there's that. I also just realised that my setup needs to be 8-4-1-1-1 or 9-4-1-1. I don't know which of those I find more believeable - 9-3-1-1 would work if 1 is a Survivor I think, otherwise probably 8-4-1-1-1 (I guess 9-3-1-1-1 is possible, but I don't know. Having anti-town indies can harm mafia's chances because of the potential for crossfire, so I think that setup leans too far town.)


Your setup needs to be that? That's some very strange wording there.

Plytho, I will try and clarify things for you.

Rolename would be your name in the game. For example, ahippo's rolename would be Griswold, the blacksmith. Can be referred to as name or role.

Your power is the abilities you have, from night kills, to cops, to doctors. They are also called roles, as a standard game of mafia, the rolename and your power are the same thing. ahippo has kept their powers secret (rightfully so), while Madge has revealed her power (at least part of it), but not her name.

Alignment is either town, scum (or mafia), other faction, or independant. Independants usually can win with one of the previous factions.

From what dimochka said, rolenames and abilities had a lot of creative freedom (for instance, Pepin, the healer in the game, might not be a doctor, as one would initially assume), but rolenames and abilities were assigned to each other, then a number of them were assigned to be scum, randomly (So Pepin might have been assigned a role of poisoner [delayed NK], and then randomly determined to be town faction). If there were glaring imbalances (i.e. scum managed all the kills powers) then it would have been rebalanced.

That said, I do not think the above would preclude things like an SK, who would be an alignment / power / role combo of their own. They would simply not be included when it came time to determine the alignment. Independents are usually independent due to their power. Jester, survivor and SK, while they may have other abilities, are defined by their win condition.

At this stage, I'd be happy lynching Znirk, if no one better pops up on my scumdar. Claiming indy early on is silly. If they are a jester, let them have their win early, and if they are a survivor, it can be better to let them die now, than risk them siding with scum later on. If they are an SK they are silly for claiming.
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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Sabrar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:44 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Your setup needs to be that? That's some very strange wording there.
Carlington's initial setup speculations added up to only 14 players, so he had to adjust that (I assume confusion was because bessie did not appear in sign-up thread).

Gopher of Pern wrote:At this stage, I'd be happy lynching Znirk, if no one better pops up on my scumdar. Claiming indy early on is silly. If they are a jester, let them have their win early, and if they are a survivor, it can be better to let them die now, than risk them siding with scum later on. If they are an SK they are silly for claiming.
This feels like going for a 'safe' lynch, without having to do scum-hunting. Similar to false Miller claims being rare or non-existent, anti-town indies also don't tend to claim in their first post.

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Re: Diablo Mafia - Day 1 (Tristram Awakens)

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:54 am UTC

I just don't see the point of claiming early. Everyone here seems to accept these claims at face value. It's essentially turning them into a protected class, which kinda ticks me off. We've already had multiple claims and its barely the start of day 1. The only justifiable one is Madge's Miller claim, which is why I dislike the miller role in general (unless they do not know they are the miller.)

It's still early in the day. I'm sure scum will slip up somewhere along the line.
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